Baalei Teshuvah Movement

[visionary]

I ran across an interesting webpage that sheds some light on some verses from the Gospels:

An Overview of the Baalei Teshuvah Movement http://www.rickross.com/reference/ultra-orthodox/ultra26.html

In particular I find the following excerpt regarding Baalei Teshuvah to be most illuminating:

"Relationships with families can become strained as relatives may not eat on the same family dinnerware (due to dietary rules) or be together with families on the Sabbath and holidays. Old friends may be cut off as the BT [Baalei Teshuvah] increasingly only associates with others who observe Orthodox at a similar level. New converts are often the worst, or most zealous on these points."

A sword indeed!

[visionary]

Yeshua stated, "Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man's foes will be those of his own household" - Matt. 10:34-36.

Yeshua also stated, "If any [man] come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple" - Luke 14:25-35.

Unusual words for someone believed to be the Prince of Peace (Isaiah 9:5-7). Sadly, most people tend to focus on the shock value, rather than what's being said here. Yeshua was advancing a Baalei Teshuvah style movement, which, then as now, created familial divisions.

[stone]

This forum is a perfect example of brother turning against brother.

How long can the fight continue to challenge father, son and holy spirit unity?

I've seen it go for a couple years already. I'm guessing it's been going on for about ohh, maybe 2000 years or so?

[ChavaK]

Having been involved in kiruv work for over 30 years, and having
extensive experience with working with BTs, I just had to respond
to this.

First, it should be noted that the writer is anonymous, and I am
always suspicous of anonymous sources. Second, the website is
called "The Study of Destructive Cults, Controversial Groups and
Movements". So I suspect the writings presented on the site
have slight a slight, teensey bit of bias built into them, LOL.

Some quotes from the article:

Becoming a BT is not just chicken soup on Friday night.

This is very true, which is why we always advise people to
take things very slowly and not try to do to much at one
time. Slow and steady makes a committed BT, not a burnout.

Also, if one does things slow and steady, he should never have
problems with any of these quotes from the article:

the result has often been families been torn apart and strained if not destroyed relationships.

After becoming a BT a person may find it difficult to get work for a variety of reasons.

Relationships with families can become strained as relatives may not eat on the same family dinnerware (due to dietary rules) or be together with families on the Sabbath and holidays. Old friends may be cut off as the BT increasingly only associates with others who observe Orthodox at a similar level. New converts are often the worst, or most zealous on these points.

None of these problems should arise as the person slowly takes on
observance. All are problems that are easily dealt with.

There are many reasons to keep away from Orthodox outreach organizations. Perhaps the single most compelling reason is that a person from a non-Orthodox background most often cannot be integrated into the ultra-Orthodox world without destroying old friendships, family connections and ultimately him or herself in the process .

It is true that people tend to gravitate towards people and groups
that they have things in common with, but this does not necessitate
the destruction of previous relationships.


The BT movement is a relatively new phenomenon. Suffice it to say that the jury is still out on the results of involvement. But what results are in, frequently seem to indicate negative consequences.

I highly disagree. I have seldom seen negative consequences, and
I've dealt with a lot of BT's. Of all the people I have worked with,
I can only recall one woman who left Orthodoxy and returned to
her "old" ways. The article seems to think this is quite common.

I also think the article over estimates the number of Orthodox Jews
in the world, but soon it will not be an overestimation.
Looking at several studies, the percentage of Orthodox Jews varies
with age group:
30-39 years old 9% Orthodox
18-39 11%
18-29 16%-20%
Children 25% +

The younger the age, the higher the percentage of Orthodox, which
should not be a surprise as they have a low intermarriage rate, and
high birth rate.

Thanks for the interesting article, Vis

[Yuanshen]

Yeshua stated, "Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man's foes will be those of his own household" - Matt. 10:34-36.

Yeshua also stated, "If any [man] come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple" - Luke 14:25-35.

Unusual words for someone believed to be the Prince of Peace (Isaiah 9:5-7). Sadly, most people tend to focus on the shock value, rather than what's being said here. Yeshua was advancing a Baalei Teshuvah style movement, which, then as now, created familial divisions.


But he was not saying that law commands and self-hypocrisy should be the reason why families divide!

Families divide when one person believes in the Lord, and the rest dont.

What happen when a Jewish person turns to the Lord? Does that not create division? The rest of the Jewish family would get very angry at their brother for believing in Jesus. Not for eating pork or not eating pork! You are talking foolish. The very proof that you read that verse that way says alot about you and legalism attitude.

We have legalism in Buiddhism too. Foolishness. Strict monks not supposed to eat after 12. So they turn off clock before 12, and after supper put it back on so they do not disobey Buddha's commandment! Foolish!

I believe in Jesus and my family very upset and are against me in many ways. That is the true meaning of that verse. It has nothing to do with Jewish ritual laws.

Legalism heart makes a person blind and hypocrite.
yuan

[A_Pioneer]

This forum is a perfect example of brother turning against brother.

How long can the fight continue to challenge father, son and holy spirit unity?

I've seen it go for a couple years already. I'm guessing it's been going on for about ohh, maybe 2000 years or so?
Am I that much of a thorn in your side?

Shalom

[Yuanshen]

God does not remove thorns, He gives grace to deal with them.

However, God will burn all thorn one day.

yuan

[A_Pioneer]

God does not remove thorns, He gives grace to deal with them.

However, God will burn all thorn one day.

yuan
Gods grace be upon Stone! So he's able to deal with adversion. He's on a holy tear.


Shalom

[Torah613]

this article, as chava points out, is just not true.

While I wouldn't claim to be a full fledged BT, I have not suffered any of hte negative effects mentioned. I have just as strong a relationship with my friends and family as I did before. True, there have been moments of misunderstanding but that is to be expected.

if you manage things properly, you can still eat with family and friends, attend a family Simcha, etc. without much difficulty. I suggest reading the book entitled "What do You Mean You Can't Eat In My House" entitled by an author I can't remember. it was really helpful to me.

Yochanan