Forgiveness and salvation

[Dorothea]

If one isn't willing to forgive their fellow man, does that mean God will not forgive them? I've read so in Matthew's Gospel. So, how does one have salvation if God does not forgive them for not forgiving others? I was of the mind that they would not be "saved." Just a little convo going on (or was going on) on the other board I frequent. :) What are your thoughts, please?

[icxn]

Synaxarion, February 9:

The memory of Nicephoros the Martyr of Antioch.

This Martyr, who was from Antioch in Syria, contested during the reign of Gallienus, about the year 260. Through the working of the evil one, his friendship with a certain Christian priest named Sapricius was turned to bitter hatred. Nicephorus, repenting of his enmity, tried both through intermediaries and in person to be reconciled with Sapricius, but to no avail. Later, when the persecution broke out under Valerian and Gallienus, Sapricius was seized as a Christian. When Saint Nicephorus learned that Sapricius had been arrested by the pagans and was enduring torments for Christ, he sent intermediaries to Sapricius, begging his forgiveness; but Sapricius would not forgive him. Later, as Sapricius was being taken to beheading, Nicephorus, hoping that Sapricius, at his end, in such a holy hour, would at last forgive him, met him on the way, fell before him, and fervently asked his forgiveness; but Sapricius forgave him not. Wherefore, though Sapricius had passed through many sufferings, and the crown of martyrdom was now awaiting him, because he disdained the chief commandments of love and forgiveness, the grace of God, which had been strengthening him in his torments, departed from him, and he told his executioners he would sacrifice. Nicephorus immediately confessed Christ before them, and being himself beheaded, took the crown that Sapricius had cast away.

:)

[ArmyMatt]

I think I read somewhere that it's not so much that God does not forgive those who don't, but that His overwhelming and infinite forgiveness will both expose and condemn those that hold a grudge. any thoughts?

[Dorothea]

Synaxarion, February 9:

The memory of Nicephoros the Martyr of Antioch.

This Martyr, who was from Antioch in Syria, contested during the reign of Gallienus, about the year 260. Through the working of the evil one, his friendship with a certain Christian priest named Sapricius was turned to bitter hatred. Nicephorus, repenting of his enmity, tried both through intermediaries and in person to be reconciled with Sapricius, but to no avail. Later, when the persecution broke out under Valerian and Gallienus, Sapricius was seized as a Christian. When Saint Nicephorus learned that Sapricius had been arrested by the pagans and was enduring torments for Christ, he sent intermediaries to Sapricius, begging his forgiveness; but Sapricius would not forgive him. Later, as Sapricius was being taken to beheading, Nicephorus, hoping that Sapricius, at his end, in such a holy hour, would at last forgive him, met him on the way, fell before him, and fervently asked his forgiveness; but Sapricius forgave him not. Wherefore, though Sapricius had passed through many sufferings, and the crown of martyrdom was now awaiting him, because he disdained the chief commandments of love and forgiveness, the grace of God, which had been strengthening him in his torments, departed from him, and he told his executioners he would sacrifice. Nicephorus immediately confessed Christ before them, and being himself beheaded, took the crown that Sapricius had cast away.

:)
My priest just told this story to us in class last night! :) Thanks!

[katherine2001]

If one isn't willing to forgive their fellow man, does that mean God will not forgive them? I've read so in Matthew's Gospel. So, how does one have salvation if God does not forgive them for not forgiving others? I was of the mind that they would not be "saved." Just a little convo going on (or was going on) on the other board I frequent. :) What are your thoughts, please?
Jesus is pretty clear about saying that the Father doesn't forgive us if we refuse to forgive others. If you think about it, the Lord's Prayer and the Beatitudes kind of say the same thing. Of course, the Lord's Prayer says, "Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive others" and the Beatitudes say, "Blessed are the merciful for they shall obtain mercy." I think Jesus is talking about those who will not forgive. If you are the least bit willing to forgive, God can help you to forgive. I think that like any good parent, sometimes God has to give us incentives to do the right thing sometimes.

[ThePosterFormerlyKnownAs]

I hope this isn't a derail but I have some questions about forgiveness and thought this might be a good place to ask them. Maybe it could help flesh out other responses to the OP, if nothing else.

What all does forgiveness entail? I mean to what extent is forgiveness defined? If a financial counsellor cheats me out of a lot of money, does forgiving them mean that I would have to trust them again? If a good friend betrays me, does that mean I must become their good friend again?

Does forgiveness have to be a formal thing (even if just done in one's mind and heart)? Often, when someone wrongs me, I will stew pretty badly for a while, harboring all kinds of hateful, vindictive thoughts and desires. Then, rather quickly, I will just "forget about the whole thing" and if I do see the person later, though I remember what they did and won't let myself get into the position to allow it again, I generally don't hold any particular rancor towards them and will act civilly. Is that forgiveness of a sort or does it require some other aspect of action?

I hope this has been coherent enough to understand. Thanks.

[icxn]

...What all does forgiveness entail? I mean to what extent is forgiveness defined? If a financial counsellor cheats me out of a lot of money, does forgiving them mean that I would have to trust them again? If a good friend betrays me, does that mean I must become their good friend again?
The bare minimum is not to return the injustice in deeds, words and lastly thoughts (this is probably the hardest of the three). No you do not have to trust the financial counselor and keeping a safe distance from your friend is not sin.

Does forgiveness have to be a formal thing (even if just done in one's mind and heart)? Often, when someone wrongs me, I will stew pretty badly for a while, harboring all kinds of hateful, vindictive thoughts and desires. Then, rather quickly, I will just "forget about the whole thing" and if I do see the person later, though I remember what they did and won't let myself get into the position to allow it again, I generally don't hold any particular rancor towards them and will act civilly. Is that forgiveness of a sort or does it require some other aspect of action?As long as you forget it and never act on those feelings you are on the safe side. You do not have to do anything - though trying to reconcile with them is good. Of course when you are the one to blame you are required to ask for forgiveness.

The ideal situation is when even at the very moment when a person injures us we embrace them with love as if nothing happened, we are even thankful for the rewards they cause us and pray with tears for the injury they suffer - according to the divine law, it is the person the incurs injury that is injured not the victim!

Btw, these two short stories (http://sgpm.goarch.org/Monastery/index.php?p=45) can be helpful if you are vengeful like me.

:)

[Dorothea]

Jesus is pretty clear about saying that the Father doesn't forgive us if we refuse to forgive others. If you think about it, the Lord's Prayer and the Beatitudes kind of say the same thing. Of course, the Lord's Prayer says, "Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive others" and the Beatitudes say, "Blessed are the merciful for they shall obtain mercy." I think Jesus is talking about those who will not forgive. If you are the least bit willing to forgive, God can help you to forgive. I think that like any good parent, sometimes God has to give us incentives to do the right thing sometimes.
Yes, I agree. I found that the SB Pastor I was discussing this with on another thread seems to think all we need is faith to have salvation and everything else we do in our lives, we are judged on whether we get a reward for it or not. :o :confused: Check it out:

http://www.americanidol.com/myidol/forums/topic/?tid=808628&page=161