saved?

[WelshJesusFreak]

Hi i'd like to ask like all the denom's opinion on what it takes to be saved? e.g. speaking in tounges, adult baptism etc. General Denom' teaching and personal opinion. If you could keep like discussion low and kinda put it in like bullet points would be reallllly good. thanks you so much x

[Kelly]

Accept that Jesus died for your sins & that he is your Lord and savior.

[Athanasian Creed]

Hi i'd like to ask like all the denom's opinion on what it takes to be saved? e.g. speaking in tounges, adult baptism etc. General Denom' teaching and personal opinion. If you could keep like discussion low and kinda put it in like bullet points would be reallllly good. thanks you so much x

Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

In a nutshell, this is what is required in order to be saved however,

James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

(paraphased)
believing that there is one God, thou believest the truth; but it will do you no good, any more than it does devils who believe the same, unless it lead you to obey him.

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Luke 8:15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, 1) having heard the word, 2)keep it, 3) and bring forth fruit with patience.

So.....

Belief on the Lord Jesus is the first step in order to be saved however, as we see from James, mere mental assent to belief in Christ is not enough (the devils believe not only in one God but in Christ as Saviour of mankind yet their belief does not lead them to obedience) True saving faith will lead to obedience as we become more like Christ. We will not only hear the Word but be doers as well -

Luke 6:47-49 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock. But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.

James 1:23-24 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.

The "doing" of the Word will bring about fruit that Christ speaks of in John 15 - fruit that will remain ! ;)



Ray :wave:

[J.A.I]

Hi i'd like to ask like all the denom's opinion on what it takes to be saved? e.g. speaking in tounges, adult baptism etc. General Denom' teaching and personal opinion. If you could keep like discussion low and kinda put it in like bullet points would be reallllly good. thanks you so much x

Just a bit of input.

Baptism is not necessary for salvation, but it is done out of respect of Jesus' commandments. Salvation is believing in the Lord Jesus Christ, believing that He died for our sins and He is our Risen Savior. It is accepting Him as your Savior and Lord of your life. It also includes following His commands (the Word of God). Jesus said if you love Him, you will keep His commandments. Part of living as a person saved by the blood of Jesus Christ is doing what you know is right as ordained by the Word of God.

Speaking in tongues is evidence of baptism in the Holy Spirit, but some people will argue that if you don't speak in tongues, you're not baptized in the Spirit. The gift of tongues is just one of the physical manifestations of Holy Spirit baptism. My personal evidences were different.

You asked for general denomination opinion, but this forum is not demoninationalized, it is a mindstate and lifestyle of living God's Word, following the fundamentals of His Word.

Hope I helped a bit.

In Christ,
Jai

[J.A.I]

Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

In a nutshell, this is what is required in order to be saved however,

James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

(paraphased)
believing that there is one God, thou believest the truth; but it will do you no good, any more than it does devils who believe the same, unless it lead you to obey him.

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Luke 8:15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, 1) having heard the word, 2)keep it, 3) and bring forth fruit with patience.

So.....

Belief on the Lord Jesus is the first step in order to be saved however, as we see from James, mere mental assent to belief in Christ is not enough (the devils believe not only in one God but in Christ as Saviour of mankind yet their belief does not lead them to obedience) True saving faith will lead to obedience as we become more like Christ. We will not only hear the Word but be doers as well -

Luke 6:47-49 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock. But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.

James 1:23-24 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.

The "doing" of the Word will bring about fruit that Christ speaks of in John 15 - fruit that will remain ! ;)



Ray :wave:

Yea, what he said ;)

[aggie03]

The answer to your question really depends on how you are going to define the word salvation. I often hear it used in two different ways: (1) being in heaven with God (2) the point at which one has their sins forgiven and is added to the body of Christ.

Which one of these, if either, are you referring to?

[J.A.I]

Aggie03 - They're partially 1 in the same... You will have #1 w/#2, but without #2, you won't have #1... :) $1 is our reward for the life we live following #2.

[aggie03]

I agree that you can't have eternal life with God in heaven without first becoming a Christian, or having the remission of sins, but I also do not think that just because you become a Christian is a garuntee of eternal life. We are told that we must live our lives faithfully in order to receive the crown of life (Revelation 2:10).

Perhaps this is the very same point that you were trying to make?

While I believe that they are closely linked, I do think that there are enough distinctions between the two that it would help if it were clarified which was intended in the OP. I'm assuming that it was dealing with when one becomes a Christian and has the remission of sins. What do you think?

[J.A.I]

I agree that you can't have eternal life with God in heaven without first becoming a Christian, or having the remission of sins, but I also do not think that just because you become a Christian is a garuntee of eternal life. We are told that we must live our lives faithfully in order to receive the crown of life (Revelation 2:10).

Perhaps this is the very same point that you were trying to make?

While I believe that they are closely linked, I do think that there are enough distinctions between the two that it would help if it were clarified which was intended in the OP. I'm assuming that it was dealing with when one becomes a Christian and has the remission of sins. What do you think?

I agree 100% w/you, that's what I meant to say :) How we live dictates our afterlife. I don't believe you can be saved and live your life willingly sinfully (what a tonguewister), and receive the crown of life. If you love Jesus and truly appreciate what He did in order for you to receive your salvation, you will work on living a life that is pleasing to Him. I think that is all part of the being saved process. Being saved makes us sanctified and set apart. We cannot be truly set apart if we still conform to the world.

I agree w/you 100%.

[ChrisB]

I agree with the previous posters - clear and succint definitions of "saved" :)

[Grace_Alone4gives]

I am saved by grace alone, through faith in Christ Jesus! Amen????

[Asar'el]

Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

In a nutshell, this is what is required in order to be saved however,

James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

(paraphased)
believing that there is one God, thou believest the truth; but it will do you no good, any more than it does devils who believe the same, unless it lead you to obey him.

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Luke 8:15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, 1) having heard the word, 2)keep it, 3) and bring forth fruit with patience.

So.....

Belief on the Lord Jesus is the first step in order to be saved however, as we see from James, mere mental assent to belief in Christ is not enough (the devils believe not only in one God but in Christ as Saviour of mankind yet their belief does not lead them to obedience) True saving faith will lead to obedience as we become more like Christ. We will not only hear the Word but be doers as well -

Luke 6:47-49 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock. But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.

James 1:23-24 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.

The "doing" of the Word will bring about fruit that Christ speaks of in John 15 - fruit that will remain !


Ray
Just to be a little different, lol... I (mostly) agree with this reply; however:

And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

That is, as said, essential; and, in my opinion, sufficient - and let me clarify:

True belief in the Lord Jesus Christ does lead to the results mentioned (including the following of His commandments); but those are the fruits of salvation, not the means. If the grace of God leads a man to faith (that is, to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ), it is enough, though the man should die the very next moment, to save (and this is, I believe, salvation at the last hour). Of course, it has to be the grace-enabled, life-and-heart-changing belief - and God is well able to know His own, so that none can fool Him by a declaration that is not truly believed.

Now... if the new believer is given of God more time on earth ... as a sign of his true belief the fruits above mentioned are to be expected.

One needs to be careful not to suggest, propose, or imply that good works are required for salvation; at the same time, it is, I believe, scriptural to affirm that true faith results in good works :)

[LuxPerpetua]

We are justified (forgiven of sins and identified with Christ) when we have faith (trust) in God's promise to give us eternal life, not through our own works but through the merit of Christ when we have faith in His sacrifice to cleanse us and free us from the Law. This is what God promised in John 3:16, Romans 1:6, Romans 10:4, Galatians 3:13, and Colossians 1:13-14.

Once the Holy Spirit has created this saving faith in us (no one without the power of the Spirit can have faith in Christ) the Holy Spirit begins sanctifying us since we are new creatures in Christ. It is through sanctification that we learn to despise and turn from sin. It is as a result of this inner sanctification in God's children that God's intended order is restored on earth (we no longer seek to hurt other people or their property, etc., but "do unto others as we would have them do unto us").

[sad astronaut]

Just to be a little different, lol... I (mostly) agree with this reply; however:

And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

That is, as said, essential; and, in my opinion, sufficient - and let me clarify:

True belief in the Lord Jesus Christ does lead to the results mentioned (including the following of His commandments); but those are the fruits of salvation, not the means. If the grace of God leads a man to faith (that is, to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ), it is enough, though the man should die the very next moment, to save (and this is, I believe, salvation at the last hour). Of course, it has to be the grace-enabled, life-and-heart-changing belief - and God is well able to know His own, so that none can fool Him by a declaration that is not truly believed.

Now... if the new believer is given of God more time on earth ... as a sign of his true belief the fruits above mentioned are to be expected.

One needs to be careful not to suggest, propose, or imply that good works are required for salvation; at the same time, it is, I believe, scriptural to affirm that true faith results in good works :)
Well said. There is no disputing that good works follow faith. But to say works is a 'means', as you said, would be contradicting scripture, including what is in my signature.

[LynneClomina]

the gift of GRACE ==> which leads to FAITH ==> which results in WORKS.

the only one of the three that is VISIBLE to man is works. if there is no WORKS, then there is no guarantee that there was ever FAITH, and if there is no FAITH, then there was no GRACE.

so "believing" isnt "enough" - the faith needs to be of the sort that produces works befitting of salvation.

(but works by themselves are no guarantee of faith and grace either, is it the works of God or the works of man?)

[aggie03]

Well said. There is no disputing that good works follow faith. But to say works is a 'means', as you said, would be contradicting scripture, including what is in my signature.
Well, considering that faith is a work, I would tend to disagree with you :) Rather, saying that a boastful work is capable of saving us in incompatible with the Scriptures.

For instance, were I to build a tower that was 10,000 feet tall, that's something that I could boast about - but it's not good enough to get me to heaven.

[sad astronaut]

Hmm, the verse I was referring to (Ephesians 2:8-9) seems to differentiate between faith and works (to me anyway). "...through faith...not of works". Are you saying these verses only refer to "boastful works" or some other kind of works as opposed to works in general? Thanks.


Well, considering that faith is a work, I would tend to disagree with you :) Rather, saying that a boastful work is capable of saving us in incompatible with the Scriptures.

For instance, were I to build a tower that was 10,000 feet tall, that's something that I could boast about - but it's not good enough to get me to heaven.

[aggie03]

Hmm, the verse I was referring to (Ephesians 2:8-9)
This is what I supposed :)

seems to differentiate between faith and works (to me anyway).
The way that you are going to define the word "works" here is crucial. We have to make sure that we understand the word the same way that Paul, inspired by the Holy Spirit, and therefore God, intended for it to be used.

Does that make any sense? :scratch: Sometimes it's hard for me to tell if what I write will sound like what I mean to other people...oh well...if it doesn't just let me know :)

"...through faith...not of works". Are you saying these verses only refer to "boastful works" or some other kind of works as opposed to works in general?
That's my understanding. I believe that the word works here has to be referring to things that would capable of boasting about because of the added "... that no man should glory..." If this were only referring to things wherein there was no glory, then it would be unnecessary to say that.

In deed, I believe that the things, then, which Paul was referring to are those that we can claim have earned us our salvation. Building a 10,000 foot tall tower is just an example. If this were something that I did, it would be something that I could be proud of, something that I believe earned me some sort of recognition - but God has said that it could never earn me heaven.

Likewise, I do not think that it includes things that God has said are conditions on the receiving of His grace, like faith for instance. Faith is described as a work - but not a boastful work. Jesus calls this a "work of God" (John 6:29), or more in line with today's language, a work ordained, prescribed or from God.

So in short, were this to exclude any kind of work whatsoever from being necessary, then it would also have to necessarily exclude faith.

Thanks.
You're welcome :) I hope that this helped express what I mean a little bit more clearly.

[Asar'el]

the gift of GRACE ==> which leads to FAITH ==> which results in WORKS.

the only one of the three that is VISIBLE to man is works. if there is no WORKS, then there is no guarantee that there was ever FAITH, and if there is no FAITH, then there was no GRACE.

so "believing" isnt "enough" - the faith needs to be of the sort that produces works befitting of salvation.

(but works by themselves are no guarantee of faith and grace either, is it the works of God or the works of man?)
The only VISIBLE sign to man is works, true; but God knoweth the heart. So, believing IS enough. I believe it is possible to be saved by grace, through faith in Christ Jesus, and die before works become manifest (for example).

Now, as I said ... if a man is granted more time after coming to Jesus ... good works are to be expected - one might say, required!

[aggie03]

well, again, i think that believing, or having faith, is a work. It is something that we must do. If there are no works whatsoever involved with the conditions of salvation, then it is not necessary to believe in order to be saved.

[LynneClomina]

The only VISIBLE sign to man is works, true; but God knoweth the heart. So, believing IS enough. I believe it is possible to be saved by grace, through faith in Christ Jesus, and die before works become manifest (for example).

Now, as I said ... if a man is granted more time after coming to Jesus ... good works are to be expected - one might say, required!
absolutely right!

if there IS time after coming to Jesus, and there are NO works, then there may have been no true faith.

[LynneClomina]

well, again, i think that believing, or having faith, is a work. It is something that we must do. If there are no works whatsoever involved with the conditions of salvation, then it is not necessary to believe in order to be saved.
faith is a gift, not a work. one cannot say to themselves, well, i'm gonna start having faith. faith comes only by the grace of God. which is why it's BY grace, THROUGH faith (and resulting in works). grace is the sourse of salvation, not faith, but faith immediately results, and works will follow.

[Asar'el]

Calling faith a work does make some sense, but it is not that sense of works which we speak of here, nor the scripture when it says, in Ephesians 2:8-9,

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.

I believe that's what LynneClomina refers to; grace, through faith being the means of salvation (which is the point of the thread).

[aggie03]

I agree - the Scriptures are referring to works of which a man (or woman ;) ) could boast in. No one can boast because they have faith. No one can boast because they love God. Can we boast because we are obedient to the things that God has said? No.

The things that God asks us to do can not be boasted about. Therefore, anything that God says is necessary in order for us to be saved cannot be boasted about. Faith, repenteance, confession and baptism are not things that can be boasted about because they are conditions that God has set in His word to us.

[aggie03]

faith is a gift, not a work. one cannot say to themselves, well, i'm gonna start having faith. faith comes only by the grace of God. which is why it's BY grace, THROUGH faith (and resulting in works). grace is the sourse of salvation, not faith, but faith immediately results, and works will follow.
Actually, faith comes from hearing the word of God (Romans 10:17). And yes it is a work - even Jesus called it one :) It's just not a work whereof one may glory.

[Harry the Heretic]

How does one "faithe"? i believe airplanes fly but i do not get on one, i do not have faith in them. For a new immature Christian, how does he know? the concepts of grace faith and works are an in depth study and even a source of contention between Christians. how can we expect one being fed the milk of the word to grasp these concepts? belief alone is not satisfactory at least for me because i could always doubt myself (do i really believe?) I believe that is why the Lord gave us baptism. It is so simple. it is a marker of faith, a point in time that we can reach out and say we faithed in the Lord. (it is no more a work than when a man and a woman go through a marriage ceremony. it just demonstrates the beginning of a faith and shows it to oneself and their spouse.) It is not a work of righteousness, but righteousness is fulfilled because it is faith itself.

[NJA]

Hi Welsh, I was at Cefn Lea over easter.

Anyway, you use the word "saved"... what doies that *mean* ?
It means deliverance. In the New Testament sense that means freed from an existance bound to "the flesh" with all it's inability, to a new Life where you enjoy the nature of God.

You must believe this and want it (repent), bury the old in baptism, "the answer of a good conscience towards God" (1 Peter 3v21), you are"dead" but you are raised to new life by the operation of God when you ask/crave and expect to receive the Holy Spirit.
Just like when a baby is born a cry is heard, you speak in tongues which is God leading you in prayer... the new tongue signifying the new heart and that *you* have entered the realm where all things are possible (no man can tame the toungue).

This is God's nominated way, man has de-nominated it (broken it up)
. . . don't mess with the best, cos the best don't mess.


Note to Athanasian Creed:-
Acts 16v31 is followed by v32 where they spoke the word of the Lord to him, i.e. they had to explain what it means to believe . . .what God does and what we should do.

[NJA]

OK Welsh - u wanted to know "opinion on what it takes to be saved" - what's yours now ?
i.e. if someone says to you "I need to know I'm saved !!" - what do u tell them ?