The unforgivable sin

[chrisbritain]

I put this in debate a fundamentalist by mistake. It wasn't getting many replies in there so I,ve put it in here as well.
I wondered what people think the unforgivabal sin is.
There have been many interpretations I just wondered what people on here think it is.
Chris

[cerette]

The Lutheran understanding is that the unforgivable sin is a sin which cannot be forgiven, not because it happens to be so much worse than all other sins, but because it to its' nature is unforgivable. Let me explain:

When the Holy Spirit has convinced your heart of something and you believe it to be true, it would be very dangerous for your soul and 'sinning against the Holy Spirit' if you were to ignore your belief and not care that someting you know to be true is true.

For example: The Holy Spirit has convinced your heart that XXX is a sin. You believe it truly is a sin. Yet, you ignore your knowledge of it being a sin, and keep doing XXX anyway, you may even say it isn't a sin eventhough you in your heart believe it is in fact a sin. By doing this, you are greiving the Holy Spirit (sinning against him) and causing your heart to be hardened.
Eventually, when your heart is really hardened, you will no longer even care that you're doing the sinful thing, because due to your hardened heart you don't see it to be sinful anymore. Your heart is so hard that you do not see the sin you are committing. Therefore, you do not regret the sin. And therefore you can not repent of it. This makes it an unforgivable sin. Its' nature is of a kind that you don't repent from it. It's very serious.

[DeaconDean]

According to the Bible, the "unforgivable" sin is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

"Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come." -Mt. 12:31-32 (KJV)

Something to point out here, Jesus said that the sin would not be forgiven, but it won't cost the ignorant "Christian" their salvation. It just says that it won't be forgiven.

The apostle Paul taught this principle also:

"Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire." -1 Cor. 3:12-15 (KJV)

The unforgivable sin is blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

And Jesus pointed this out to the Scribes and Pharisees:

"And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils." -Mk. 3:22.

And to show that this is exactly what is being warned against, Jesus is recorded again saying:

"Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:" -Mk. 3:28-29 (KJV)

The unforgivable sin is blaspheming the Holy Spirit, ascribing any work done by the Holy Spirit to anybody but whom it is due.

Hope this helps.

God Bless

Till all are one.

[chrisbritain]

Does that mean that somebody who has said that Jesus's miricles were placibo affect or that the Bible isn't the word of God has commited the unforgivable sin?
Chris

[DeaconDean]

Not necessarily.

You see, there is a difference between a sin committed in ignorance, and deliberate sins.

The difference in the scriptures I quoted above is that the people who were following Jesus around at the time, had been preached to, seen the miracles, been feed the food, been healed, and yet some still refused to believe.

The passage of scripture above, points out some serious character flaws with the individuals who were accusing Jesus. They were the scribes. A scribe was one who sat in on the courts, and recorded the law, but also helped out in interpreting the law. A very prestigious position at that time. And for them to submit to Jesus would have been to give up on the privledges they enjoyed. The old saying that if Satan can't turn your character, he'll attack your works proves true here.

If you don't believe the Bible, or you don't believe Jesus Christ, and you ascribe works He has done (Holy Spirit) to somebody or something else, then you still have time to be forgiven. As long as your on this side of the grass there is time to be forgiven.

The Psalmist says:

"As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us." -Psa. 103:12 (KJV)

God literally takes our sins and casts them into a "sea of forgetfulness."

"He will turn again, he will have compassion upon us; he will subdue our iniquities; and thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea." -Micah 7:19 (KJV)

And unlike people, God will never ever bring them back up to haunt you or throw them up in your face. Satan might, but God never will!

If a person commits the "unforgivable sin" out of ignorance, before salvation, I don't believe God could hold that against them. However, once the mind has been enlightened, been exposed to the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and they repent, and commit the "unforgivable sin," then it will not be forgiven them. The same applies to people who have heard the Gospel, refuse to believe, and commit the "unforgivable sin," then that shall not be forgiven then either.

Do you know what the Bible actually teaches us about what sends a person to hell for eternity?

Most would tell you that our sins send us to hell, but that is not true. It does play a part, for sure, but that is not the ultimate reason people are sent to hell.

The reason why people are sent to hell is because they refuse to believe in Jesus Christ!

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life...He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God...He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." -John 3:16, 18, 36 (KJV)

As serious as the "unforgiven sin" is, refusing to believe in the Son of the living God, is worse, much, much worse.

I do hope and pray that you sit and reflect on what I've told you. A lot of the prophesies of the Bible (eschatology) are being fulfilled as we speak. Man is closer now than he has ever been in the history of the world to seeing Jesus' return. We live in a day where God's grace and gift of salvation are freely given. All you have to do is accept and believe:

"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." -Rom. 10:9-10 (KJV)

Its just that easy. Its so easy a child could do it. But there is coming a day when God's grace and the free gift of salvation is going to be cut off.

You have had a witness, me. i have presented you the Gospel message. Jesus came to die for you, to take your sins personally upon Himself, in order to make you right with God. (justification) However. if you refuse the consequences are deadly. If you refuse to believe, then God is going to:

"For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness." -2 Thes. 2:7-12 (KJV)

Everybody believes in something, and if you will not believe the truth, then you will believe the lie.

So think about what we have talked about. Let it sink into your heart. Let the Holy Spirit do His "perfect work." (Jas. 1:4)

If there are any other questions I can help with, I'll be more than glad to help if I can.

God Bless

Till all are one.

[tturt]

Matt 12:31 shows that there is a difference between the sin we commit and blasphemy associated with that versus blasphemy of the Holy Spirit - Mat 12:31 "Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men." Also, "Mar 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:"

An individual doesn’t accidentally commit blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. It is a deliberate hardening against the Spirit of God. If you had committed blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, your heart and conscience would be seared and you would NOT be concerned about it at all.

If a believer has never been concerned about this, it doesn’t mean that you have committed the unpardonable sin.

The enemy tries to use this against believers.BUT as believers we have been forgiven! Accept Yahweh's forgiveness and rest in Him. Replace those false concerns with His Word such as “1Jo 1:9 “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”

[chrisbritain]

So if somebody wasn't shore what they believed they would not have commited it they would have to do it deliberately?

[DeaconDean]

So if somebody wasn't sure (sic) what they believed they would not have commited it they would have to do it deliberately?

God made provision for sins committed in ignorance. (cf Lev. 4:2)

Now out of repect for tturt, lets just say you see a "healer" like Benny Hinn healing the sick. You say something along the lines of that's fake. Perhaps it is, and perhaps it isn't. But there may indeed be the working of the Holy Spirit within that individual. Perhaps latter on, you come to salvation, that sin of ignorance, could very well be forgiven.

But me, knowing better, who has already come to salvation, if I make that statement, and I'm wrong, then I have committed the unforgivable sin. And it will not be forgiven me, neither in this life, nor the one to come.

Understand?

God Bless

Till all are one.

[chrisbritain]

What if you thought a faith healer was a fake not because you ment to blastpheme the Holy Spirit but because you thought that particular faith healer seemed insincere so you made a mistake.
Chris

[desmalia]

God made provision for sins committed in ignorance. (cf Lev. 4:2)

Now out of repect for tturt, lets just say you see a "healer" like Benny Hinn healing the sick. You say something along the lines of that's fake. Perhaps it is, and perhaps it isn't. But there may indeed be the working of the Holy Spirit within that individual. Perhaps latter on, you come to salvation, that sin of ignorance, could very well be forgiven.

But me, knowing better, who has already come to salvation, if I make that statement, and I'm wrong, then I have committed the unforgivable sin. And it will not be forgiven me, neither in this life, nor the one to come.

Understand?

God Bless

Till all are one.
Dean, would you mind further explaining your position on this? The reason I ask is that your statement could easily be understood to suggest that any Christian who considers Hinn (etc.) to be false/fake is blaspheming the Holy Spirit. But I'm sure that's not what you intended to infer. Thanks.

[DeaconDean]

What if you thought a faith healer was a fake not because you ment to blastpheme the Holy Spirit but because you thought that particular faith healer seemed insincere so you made a mistake.
Chris

I just used the "faith healer" as an example. But, if it was a real miracle of faith of somebody being healed and you ascribe it to something else other than what it really was, then that should qualify under the unforgivable sin.

God Bless

Till all are one.

[DeaconDean]

Dean, would you mind further explaining your position on this? The reason I ask is that your statement could easily be understood to suggest that any Christian who considers Hinn (etc.) to be false/fake is blaspheming the Holy Spirit. But I'm sure that's not what you intended to infer. Thanks.

Your right, I just used Benny Hinn as an example.

A lot of people fully believe in the works this man does, some don't. I don't, but I would not openly disrespect the man because we had a WoF person in here posting, and I would not want to start something bad.

The Bible also speaks of "testing the prophets." (cf. Deut. 13) Now this passage speaks of "dreamers of sreams." But it also applies to healers. You are to test them to see 1) if their works are genuine, 2) if the Spirit is in their works.

So I'm one who believes in "testing the prophets" and so far, in my observations, Mr. Hinn is nothing like what is described in the Primative church.

But I just used Mr. Hinn as an example.

God Bless

Till all are one.

[chrisbritain]

So does that meen all those skeptics who have gone through the Bible and critized it,who have said all the miricles in the Bible' all the prophesies' all of Jesus's miricles have natural causes 'who have argued agaisnt it'have commited it.
Chris

[DeaconDean]

So does that meen all those skeptics who have gone through the Bible and critized it,who have said all the miricles in the Bible' all the prophesies' all of Jesus's miricles have natural causes 'who have argued agaisnt it'have commited it.
Chris

I would say that's petty close to it.

God Bless

Till all are one.

[desmalia]

I put this in debate a fundamentalist by mistake. It wasn't getting many replies in there so I,ve put it in here as well.
I wondered what people think the unforgivabal sin is.
There have been many interpretations I just wondered what people on here think it is.
Chris
For the most part I have believed the same as Dean regarding this issue. However more recently I've been seriously considering another understanding that makes an incredible amount of sense. While I am still studying the issue, I am inclined to consider this to be a very solid contextual explanation.

This understanding is that the unforgivable sin of blaspheming the Spirit applies specifically to those who have known and seen Christ walking the earth and performing thousands of miracles, and who conclude that He (by His miraculous works) is of the devil. They've studied and understood all the prophesies about the Messiah, see them fulfilled, and choose to reject Him and even call Him satanic. As such it only applied to those who did so as we seen the Scriptures, and to those who will also reject Him when He once again walks the earth.

[DeaconDean]

For the most part I have believed the same as Dean regarding this issue. However more recently I've been seriously considering another understanding that makes an incredible amount of sense. While I am still studying the issue, I am inclined to consider this to be a very solid contextual explanation.

This understanding is that the unforgivable sin of blaspheming the Spirit applies specifically to those who have known and seen Christ walking the earth and performing thousands of miracles, and who conclude that He (by His miraculous works) is of the devil. They've studied and understood all the prophesies about the Messiah, see them fulfilled, and choose to reject Him and even call Him satanic. As such it only applied to those who did so as we seen the Scriptures, and to those who will also reject Him when He once again walks the earth.

See we do agree on some things.

Yes the passages refered to in the bible did reference those who saw Jesus perform the miracles. But the passages also speak to us today because the Word of God is timeless. It applies to all people at all times.

The Bible is the word of truth and it carries the "words of life."

As such, it can transform a man/woman and equipt them for every work of righteousness.

THat is why I say those who have read the bible and disbelieve, and discredit it, fall into the same category.

They have had their minds enlightened, read for themselves, and seen with their own eyes, what the Bible says, and then to discredit and disbelieve it. To me, that is about the same thing.

God Bless

Till all are one.

[desmalia]

See we do agree on some things.

Yes the passages refered to in the bible did reference those who saw Jesus perform the miracles. But the passages also speak to us today because the Word of God is timeless. It applies to all people at all times.

The Bible is the word of truth and it carries the "words of life."

As such, it can transform a man/woman and equipt them for every work of righteousness.

THat is why I say those who have read the bible and disbelieve, and discredit it, fall into the same category.

They have had their minds enlightened, read for themselves, and seen with their own eyes, what the Bible says, and then to discredit and disbelieve it. To me, that is about the same thing.

God Bless

Till all are one.
Ah Dean, there are many things we agree on! :D

You seem to be drawing a correlation between Matthew 12 and Hebrews 6. And fair enough. I consider this to be quite possible as well. It becomes difficult to speculate on such things practically as there is no way to recognize for sure when someone has committed this unforgivable sin (if it is indeed possible today). We know that it is possible for someone to be exposed to the Gospel message, reject it, and later in life still become a believer.

I can think of a personal example of a relative of mine. She was raised in a Christian family and professed to be a believer for many years. But recently she told the family that she hates everything our faith stands for and is not a believer at all. Do I believe this means she is doomed to hell? I don't think I can say that, and I don't think it's what the Bible passages say either. She may still become a believer later in her life. It's going to be a hard road as she embraces her current rebellion. But I will not stop praying for her, nor will I give up hope.

[tturt]

Usually there's a difference in criticizing a ministry, doubting The Bible, etc. versus blaspheming the Holy Spirit. It's not of the tongue nor intellect but of one's heart.

[desmalia]

Usually there's a difference in criticizing a ministry, doubting The Bible, etc. versus blaspheming the Holy Spirit. It's not of the tongue nor intellect but of one's heart.
Absolutely. :thumbsup:

[DeaconDean]

there's a difference in criticizing a ministry, doubting The Bible, etc. versus blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

Doubting the Bible?

People who read the Bible, critize the word, make fun of, slander, discredit, and any other adjective you can think of, have not blasphemed the Holy Spirit, since it was the Holy Spirit who guided the prophets and apostles to either speak or write God's word?

Does the Bible not say about itself:

"For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." -Heb. 4:12 (KJV)

Well I can see that you and I look at God's Holy Word in two different lights. We hold God's Holy Word in two different ways.

I see God's Holy Word, the Bible, as the revealed will of God for our lives.

And to critize it, doubt it, slander it, is not only critizing, slandering, doubting God, but the very Spirit that revealed to man.

We hold the word of God in two very different ways.

The way it is sounding coming from you, it sounds like "Oh well, its just a book, better than all the rest, but its still just a book."

To me, I hold that book as sacred, holy, and to be revered as God's revealed will for mankind as a whole, not to be doubted, slandered, critized, etc.

We have two very different views of God's Holy Word.

A.A. Hodge pointed out rather well:

What is meant by saying that the Scriptures are the only infallible rule of faith and practice?


Whatever God teaches or commands is of sovereign authority. Whatever conveys to us an infallible knowledge of his teachings and commands is an infallible rule. The Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments are the only organs through which, during the present dispensation, God conveys to us a knowledge of his will about what we are to believe concerning himself, and what duties he requires of us. {emphasis mine}

What arguments do the Scriptures themselves afford in favor of the doctrine that they are the only infallible rule of faith?


1st. The Scriptures always speak in the name of God, and command faith and obedience. {emphasis mine}

2nd. Christ and his apostles always refer to the written Scriptures, then existing, as authority, and to no other rule of faith whatsoever.—Luke 16:29; 10:26; John 5:39; Rom. 4:3;2 Tim. 3:15.

3rd. The Bereans are commended for bringing all questions, even apostolic teaching, to this test.—Acts 17:11; see also Isa. 8:16.

4th. Christ rebukes the Pharisees for adding to and perverting the Scriptures.—Matt. 15:7-9; Mark 7:5-8; see also Rev. 22:18, 19, and Deut. 4:2; 12:32; Josh. 1:7. {emphasis mine}

http://www.the-highway.com/Scripture_Hodge.html

We evidently, have two entirely different views of the Bible.

God Bless

Till all are one.

[chrisbritain]

So Dean do you think that somebody who doesn't accept the Bible as soon as they hear about it or read it has commited the unforgivabel sin?
Chris

[DeaconDean]

So Dean do you think that somebody who doesn't accept the Bible as soon as they hear about it or read it has commited the unforgivabel sin?
Chris

Not per se.

According to the Bible, and most Reformed theologians agree, the Holy Spirit must be working from within.

You see, some people hear the word and it takes, some people it takes several time of going to church and hearing the word preached before it takes.

But if you have been to church, heard the word preached many times, have felt the conviction of the Holy Spirit, and you still refuse to heed, then it is entirely possible.

God said in Gen. 6:3:

"My spirit shall not always strive with man,"

God Bless

Till all are one.

[chrisbritain]

Hello Dean
Could you tell me all the things you think are part of the unforgivable sin?
It appears you think it is insulting the word of God and rejecting The Holy Spirit for a certain amount of time' anything else?
Chris

[DeaconDean]

Deleted

[chrisbritain]

Hello Dean
I couldn't use that link.
Chris

[DeaconDean]

Hello Dean
I couldn't use that link.
Chris

Hello, I'm sorry that i haven't been able to respond, but I have had my hands full over the last week or so. I hope to respond soon. Just have patience with me.

God Bless

Till all are one.

[chrisbritain]

Ok thankyou