what is the point of going to church.....

[Sonfest Rocker]

when u bust ur *** and work really really hard and put ur heart and soul in to the church and then just have people treat u like nothing.

and also when u work hard to have youth groups running and then to find out the ministers daughter. who just isnt youth work material is getting paid A$2000+ a year to be a youth minister. its not about the money its just there a 3 leaders including her we do it for the kids ( atleast i do) y couldnt that money go towards the youth..

and now i find out that she is doing the course i wanted to do (i pulled out for work reasons).
she knows that and she comes up to me and said u would have really enjoyed this. now that hurts i have been working hard for the youth of the church
and well there aint going to be a youth come 2009. and it will be the minister and his daughters fault.


gahhhhhh sorry i went off on that litrtle rant

the point of things is i bust my *** and work damn hard and get no credit and people can just breze on in and get paid to do nothing.

[Andy Broadley]

A feeling I'm sure Jesus knew well.

After all He did for them, His desciples just kept letting Him down time after time, as did the people He was working so hard to reach.

After all He'd gone through in that desert.....

After beating His head against a wall trying to make the Pharisees see sense.....

After spending three years teaching, and healing, and caring, and loving.....

After all that, here He was, on the eve of Passover, let down by His desciples who couldn't even stay awake when He needed them most, betrayed by a man He loved, and abandoned and denied by the man who swore to stand by Him regardless.....

After a night where He had been arrested, stripped, beaten half to death, convicted by a kangaroo court, and comdemmed to death by the occupation forces local commander.....

Here He was, on the town rubbish tip, about to be executed in the most barbaric manner, reserved for the worst offenders, alongside 2 convicted criminals, before a mocking, jeering crowd.....


Hardly surprising that He eventually turned round and said...

"I really don't need this you know. I've bust my *** for these people, and what thanks do I get for it? I don't deserve to be treated like this and they don't deserve me. Father, get me outa here....."

...Oh....hang on a minute.....I got that wrong....He didn't.....

[Sonfest Rocker]

A feeling I'm sure Jesus knew well.

After all He did for them, His desciples just kept letting Him down time after time, as did the people He was working so hard to reach.

After all He'd gone through in that desert.....

After beating His head against a wall trying to make the Pharisees see sense.....

After spending three years teaching, and healing, and caring, and loving.....

After all that, here He was, on the eve of Passover, let down by His desciples who couldn't even stay awake when He needed them most, betrayed by a man He loved, and abandoned and denied by the man who swore to stand by Him regardless.....

After a night where He had been arrested, stripped, beaten half to death, convicted by a kangaroo court, and comdemmed to death by the occupation forces local commander.....

Here He was, on the town rubbish tip, about to be executed in the most barbaric manner, reserved for the worst offenders, alongside 2 convicted criminals, before a mocking, jeering crowd.....


Hardly surprising that He eventually turned round and said...

"I really don't need this you know. I've bust my *** for these people, and what thanks do I get for it? I don't deserve to be treated like this and they don't deserve me. Father, get me outa here....."

...Oh....hang on a minute.....I got that wrong....He didn't.....
ok ok i get what u mean

andy its just so hard.

[Andy Broadley]

When I became a Christian I said, Lord, now fill me in,
Tell me what I'll suffer in this world of shame and sin.
He said, your body may be killed, and left to rot and stink,
Do you still want to follow me? I said Amen - I think.

I think Amen, Amen I think, I think I say Amen,
I'm not completely sure, can you just run through that again?
You say my body may be killed and left to rot and stink,
Well, yes, that sounds terrific, Lord, I say Amen - I think.

But, Lord, there must be other ways to follow you, I said,
I really would prefer to end up dying in my bed.
Well, yes, he said, you could put up with the sneers and scorn and spit,
Do you still want to follow me? I said Amen - a bit.

A bit Amen, Amen a bit, a bit I say Amen,
I'm not entirely sure, can we just run through that again?
You say I could put up with sneers and also scorn and spit,
Well, yes, I've made my mind up, and I say, Amen - a bit.

Well I sat back and thought a while, then tried a different ploy,
Now, Lord, I said, the Good book says that Christians live in joy.
That's true he said, you need the joy to bear the pain and sorrow,
So do you want to follow me, I said, Amen - tomorrow.

Tomorrow, Lord, I'll say it then, that's when I'll say Amen,
I need to get it clear, can I just run through that again?
You say that I will need to joy, to bear the pain and sorrow,
Well, yes, I think I've got it straight, I'll say Amen - tomorrow.

He said, Look, I'm not asking you to spend an hour with me
A quick salvation sandwich and a cup of sanctity,
The cost is you, not half of you, but every single bit,
Now tell me, will you follow me? I said Amen - I quit.

I'm very sorry Lord I said, I'd like to follow you,
But I don't think religion is a manly thing to do.
He said forget religion then, and think about my Son,
And tell me if you're man enough to do what he has done.

Are you man enough to see the need, and man enough to go,
Man enough to care for those whom no one wants to know,
Man enough to say the thing that people hate to hear,
To battle through Gethsemane in loneliness and fear.

And listen! Are you man enough to stand it at the end,
The moment of betrayal by the kisses of a friend,
Are you man enough to hold your tongue, and man enough to cry?
When nails break your body-are you man enough to die?

Man enough to take the pain, and wear it like a crown,
Man enough to love the world and turn it upside down,
Are you man enough to follow me, I ask you once again?
I said, Oh Lord, I'm frightened, but I also said Amen.

Amen, Amen, Amen, Amen; Amen, Amen, Amen,
I said, Oh Lord, I'm frightened, but I also said, Amen.


~Adrian Plass

[Sonfest Rocker]

:(

[Andy Broadley]

:(


:hug:

[higgs2]

That sounds really frustrating. :(

[Finella]

I think almost all of us here can really relate, anyone who's been deeply involved in church has had similar experiences and wondered, "what was the point of it..."

I'm sorry you're going through this, it does sound very frustrating. Don't feel badly about venting your frustrations, even Jesus turned over some tables when he needed to. ;)

[alexier]

Hi there Sonfest - Hows it goin now? Any changes?

I find that when I remember that the people in a church are just People - like us who have differences of opinion and issues that arn't always Christian, Then I can move onwards knowing that the Church can never be perfect, not even anywhere near it. That doesn't mean we can't change things, it just means that we can cope with it.

I hope that makes some sense. :-)

[Sonfest Rocker]

That sounds really frustrating. :(
it is and it takes all my energy every week not to lose my temper

[Sonfest Rocker]

home from church
i was having a ok day mainly cuz i focuesd on the children and not on my own feelings

[higgs2]

home from church
i was haveing a ok day mainly cuz i focuesd on the children and not on my own feelings

Sounds sensible. Glad it went alright. :hug:

[Sonfest Rocker]

Sounds sensible. Glad it went alright. :hug:
well i almost lost my cool i was really ready to almost break down. its not fair.
i try and be so calm and the i have people hiting me and stuff(playing around) but it was annoying.
i hate it
i really cant stand church atm

[ChaliceThunder]

Hey Sonfest,

I think a number of us can relate. The church can be such a difficult mistress.

She says: "I take and I take and I take, and ALL you can do is give!"

I've had days of frustration like that.

If this is your call, then do your best to stick with it, while giving yourself as much room to grow as you can. Remember that you never have to be perfect.

The church is a beautiful, broken, enlightened, sinful institution. It needs your gifts - and by sticking with it, you will also receive, and/or develop new gifts. Patience just might be one of them! :hug:

[Sonfest Rocker]

ok i get that
but i dont get why i should be treated like dirt
y my well presented letters should be ignored
what have i done
my passion is the youth
and i work my *** of to be the best i can be for the youth
im not perfect i never will be but its never goodenough

and yet the minister and his kids think they are perfect and well i can never be as good as his kids and yet i have done more for the church and people will say ive done more

gahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh:|:|:|

[ChaliceThunder]

You are right.
Nobody should treat you like dirt.
Is there a way you can share your feelings with them when they treat you this way?

Using "I" statements about how it makes you feel when your work is ignored or denigrated.

It sounds like they have much to learn themselves, and you might just be the teacher!

[Sonfest Rocker]

You are right.
Nobody should treat you like dirt.
Is there a way you can share your feelings with them when they treat you this way?

Using "I" statements about how it makes you feel when your work is ignored or denigrated.

It sounds like they have much to learn themselves, and you might just be the teacher!
no i cant share my feelings cuz well id most prob loose my temper

[Colabomb]

That sounds really frustrating. :(

Yeah, she should just plonk them.

And haylea, I understand. Many of us go through situations such as this, i do fully understand as i feel this way myself sometimes concerning non church related issues.

You aren't alone kiddo, just keep fighting. Email me if you want to talk more about it :hug:

[Sonfest Rocker]

i give up...

[stephenc]

I understand perfectly well that you want a bit of recognition for the job you do at your church.

Well, neither me nor anyone else can "force" that; but for what's it worth I'll bet you do a bloody good job, and I think you're a real trooper.

That's some kind of recognition, right?

[alexier]

yeah it is wrong what they are doing at Church absolutely - but have you considered how the youth would feel if you wernt there - I bet they appreciate you don't they?
And thats why you are doing it - not for the Vicar or his family but for the kids.
I reckon they would be heartbroken if you left = I do think you need to tackle this head on because its just going to fester inside you if you don't and you could get ill. I think you should let someone know- its better to get it off your chest now than get to the point where you suffer and the kids start feeling disjointed.
I will definately pray for you as I really feel for your situation!
Other than that maybe its worth looking at what God is trying to tell you Vocation wise - Is he saying ' Go into fulltime youth ministry' - your cry may be one of frustration but sometimes its that frustration that leads to to where we should be.

Anyway take care xxxxx

[Colabomb]

i give up...

Why?\

[Sonfest Rocker]

Why?\
because i dont see the point nemore

[Colabomb]

We do the right thing because it is the right thing. We will inevitably get screwed in life, over and over again. jesus specifically made it clear that things are not rosy.

that's my biggest issue with the name it and claim it types. They imagine the Chistian life is all peachy. In reality it is often a pain.

Self sacrifice without reward, is not pleasant.

[Sonfest Rocker]

We do the right thing because it is the right thing. We will inevitably get screwed in life, over and over again. jesus specifically made it clear that things are not rosy.

that's my biggest issue with the name it and claim it types. They imagine the Chistian life is all peachy. In reality it is often a pain.

Self sacrifice without reward, is not pleasant.
no see for alot of people they have had nothing but a good life
they have great chritian pearents ect.
but they dont know what its like to hurt all the time to be sad to struggle

[norbie]

but they dont know what its like to hurt all the time to be sad to struggle

My Dear young Lady, this above sentence is very, very sad when it comes from a very God believing person like you. So where is God in all your pain? Didn't God tell us that we should be happy, to have a life in abundance? Sure we all got our cross to carry - and so are you. BUT God will never put something on us which we can't carry. Sometime God is testing us. This is the time we pray, which means 'talking to God'. Find yourself a very quite, undisturbed place, sit down, close your eyes and talk with God, like 'Oh Lord it's to hard for me, the weight of the cross you give me to carry is to havy, please help me'. Yes you CAN talk with God and when you sit there so quite and undisturbed, you will feel the present of God, right beside you.
And you will feel strong again, you will feel free, your thoughts will be like 'isn't it great and wonderful for the Pastors Daughter'. And you will minister, which means serving. Serving humble to the glory of God. As a young person this is not always easy. Work hard on yourself - talk to God and do your best for rising our youth for God.
This 'old man' will pray for you, be strong - God will never let you down.
Your brother in Christ, Norbie:hug: :hug: :hug:

[Sonfest Rocker]

but they dont know what its like to hurt all the time to be sad to struggle

My Dear young Lady, this above sentence is very, very sad when it comes from a very God believing person like you. So where is God in all your pain? Didn't God tell us that we should be happy, to have a life in abundance? Sure we all got our cross to carry - and so are you. BUT God will never put something on us which we can't carry. Sometime God is testing us. This is the time we pray, which means 'talking to God'. Find yourself a very quite, undisturbed place, sit down, close your eyes and talk with God, like 'Oh Lord it's to hard for me, the weight of the cross you give me to carry is to havy, please help me'. Yes you CAN talk with God and when you sit there so quite and undisturbed, you will feel the present of God, right beside you.
And you will feel strong again, you will feel free, your thoughts will be like 'isn't it great and wonderful for the Pastors Daughter'. And you will minister, which means serving. Serving humble to the glory of God. As a young person this is not always easy. Work hard on yourself - talk to God and do your best for rising our youth for God.
This 'old man' will pray for you, be strong - God will never let you down.
Your brother in Christ, Norbie:hug: :hug: :hug:
very God believing person like you

well i dont know what ur saying there
im strugaling more and more with my faith everyday

[Colabomb]

very God believing person like you

well i dont know what ur saying there
im strugaling more and more with my faith everyday



We all do kiddo. Its normal. Continue praying, seeking and studying. That is what gets me through my times of agnostic doubt.

*Hugs the snot out of you*

Feel free to email me, we havn't talked in a while.

[ContraMundum]

The point of going to church is to worship God. It's not about letting the perceived sins of others get you down.

[ContraMundum]

no see for alot of people they have had nothing but a good life

I don't think I've met many people like that.

but they dont know what its like to hurt all the time to be sad to struggle

Most people do in fact know pain very well, and the older you get, the more you will see. That's life.

Perhaps you should consider yourself lucky. You live in a good country, have a computer, have money and opportunity. No one is persecuting you for your faith, and you have your future ahead of you to embrace and pursue with gusto.

Believe me, many would relish the opportunity to be in your place again.

[Albion]

The point of going to church is to worship God. It's not about letting the perceived sins of others get you down.

Hi, CM.

You are quite right about what you said there. It's what we all say and almost have to say. But, you know, the liturgy is communal, corporate. We are taught that about it all the time, and many aspects of it reflect it. Then with the new liturgies you also have to say something sappy to the persons nearby in jargon that you are supposed to think people said in the first century, and all in all you are lucky not to have to hold hands and sing Kum Ba Ya before exiting. IF one could just be in church alone with God, it would make things a lot better, I've often thought.

This doesn't help Sonfest at all, but I was just set to thinking by what you posted.

[Sonfest Rocker]

i know alot of us strugle
and i know i shoulnt have said what i said
please just forget it

[Albion]

i know alot of us strugle
and i know i shoulnt have said what i said
please just forget it
Hey! We don't mind.

There is hardly any emotion or experience someone describes here that hasn't been expressed before, and nothing you wrote was unreasonable IMO.

[Sonfest Rocker]

im really at the point of just giving up religon altogether

[Colabomb]

im really at the point of just giving up religon altogether

Why?

[stephenc]

im really at the point of just giving up religon altogether


Just keep in mind the difference between a)God, and b) Religion.

b) is a human thing, and thus it's gonna be full of stuff that gets you down.

As for God; well, I can only say what you said to me; He's that what really knows you.

[Albion]

Just keep in mind the difference between a)God, and b) Religion.



That observation, just as it stands above, is worth considering, Sonfest.

If you are moved to abandon organized Christianity, there's no need to give up your personal faith in Christ. That's what really matters and it can be defended very well against anyone who says this is wrong to do.

[haulpak]

If the Church you attend seems to be the problem then I suggest you simply move Churches.

Find a more comfortable home for your faith.

[Sonfest Rocker]

if i leave my church the kids have no one

[Sonfest Rocker]

now i have been told by one of the ministers that i need to stay in church and not help with the children for a few weeks

[Colabomb]

Did he/she say why?

[Sonfest Rocker]

yer she said i need to get some spiritual nourishment
ive been helping with the kids for over a yr now
and maybe thats y im loosing the relationship i had with god