Do Lutherans believe the Holy Bible is 100% perfect?

[Orthodox Andrew]

Is it the pure word of God without Man's thoughts going in it that may be mistaken?

[Lotar]

Pretty much.

[Orthodox Andrew]

Okay, so the Lutheran Church says there are absolutely no contradictions, right?

[Rechtgläubig]

"I smell an ambush! I'll take point..." :D

Okay, so the Lutheran Church says there are absolutely no contradictions, right?
"We believe that scripture is a unified whole, true and without error in everything it says"

http://www.wels.net/s3/uploaded/4421/eng.pdf

[ChiRho]

Okay, so the Lutheran Church says there are absolutely no contradictions, right?

You are correct. God in His infinite wisdom, did not contradict Himself.

Pax Christi,

ChiRho

[ByzantineDixie]

Further, we believe that the Scriptures are the inspired Word of God. Every word (in the original texts) is exactly the word God wanted to use.

Peace

Rose

[Pacigoth13]

If we are looking for theological truth, yes, this is the case, it is found inerrantly in the Scriptures...

If we are looking for math or science or history or whatever we have to realise the situation in which Scripture was written. If people at that time thought the world was flat, its going to be reflected in Scripture. This doesn't make it "errant" or "untrue" it just makes it a product of its own time.

[ChiRho]

If we are looking for theological truth, yes, this is the case, it is found inerrantly in the Scriptures...

If we are looking for math or science or history or whatever we have to realise the situation in which Scripture was written. If people at that time thought the world was flat, its going to be reflected in Scripture. This doesn't make it "errant" or "untrue" it just makes it a product of its own time.

Wow! This is not Lutheran.

Pax Christi,

ChiRho

[Pacigoth13]

Actually, ChiRho, if you ask some of my ELCA friends, the fact that I believe in theological inerrancy is too conservative.

My view is not LCMS, no; but then again, there are only two things I agree with the LCMS on, but we won't go there. In the larger world of Lutheranism, my view is conservative.

[ChiRho]

[QUOTE=Pacigoth13]Actually, ChiRho, if you ask some of my ELCA friends, the fact that I believe in theological inerrancy is too conservative.

no thanks. :sigh: :(

My view is not LCMS, no; but then again, there are only two things I agree with the LCMS on, but we won't go there.

Why?

In the larger world of Lutheranism, my view is conservative.

Define Lutheransim, I feel that maybe we are talking about two different words!

What is a Lutheran?

Pax Christi,

ChiRho

[Pacigoth13]

Somebody who finds that some part of their own theological journey takes after Luther's. If you stretch it any further, then I think you make Lutheranism a substitute religion for Christianity and if you and/or the LCMS which to do so, have fun with it, its your choice, but it isn't what I mean by "Lutheranism". Furthermore, ELCA people may be in the minority on this posting board, but in general, most Lutherans are ELCA which makes the LCMS a minority position. Doesn't mean that that is a bad thing, it just means that if only your group uses "Lutheran" correctly, then most "Lutherans" aren't "Lutherans". Perhaps that is what the LCMS is trying to say???

[Lotar]

Actually, most Lutherans are not Lutheran, if one defines Lutheranism by theological positions.


On this particular subject, I am not so conservative...

[ChiRho]

Actually, most Lutherans are not Lutheran, if one defines Lutheranism by theological positions.


On this particular subject, I am not so conservative...

huh?

[Flipper]

What do you mean by perfect? If you are saying "correct" then I agree.

It is the unerring Word of God. It is correct, accurate and logical - if you can understand it in the context it was written in it's original translation.

I also believe that Bible is not a science book (how is agreeing with that not being "Lutheran?"). It also can't be a history book, as the Books are not in chronological order.

[Lotar]

Scripture is inspired, and inerrant in all matters of faith. ;)

[Flipper]

That is a good, diplomatic answer. :clap:

[Lotar]

There is a quote from Luther, where he spoke of how foolish the astronomers were for believing that the earth was not the center of the universe, when scripture clearly teaches otherwise. I hope to never have a similiar quote attached to my name. ;)

[Flipper]

Luther said it. No wonder it was genius.

[GlowingFirefly]

Okay back on topic here.

I dunno about all Lutherans, but I know I believe that everything in the Bible is true. But I guess according to everyone here, most Lutherans believe that. ;)

[SPALATIN]

Somebody who finds that some part of their own theological journey takes after Luther's. If you stretch it any further, then I think you make Lutheranism a substitute religion for Christianity and if you and/or the LCMS which to do so, have fun with it, its your choice, but it isn't what I mean by "Lutheranism". Furthermore, ELCA people may be in the minority on this posting board, but in general, most Lutherans are ELCA which makes the LCMS a minority position. Doesn't mean that that is a bad thing, it just means that if only your group uses "Lutheran" correctly, then most "Lutherans" aren't "Lutherans". Perhaps that is what the LCMS is trying to say???
While the ELCA has more members right now I do believe that will change when the Sexuality study is released next year and the Synod leaders declare that it is okay to ordain Gays and Lesbians. If that happens and there has been nothing to convince me it won't there will be a big Synod split. Some churches have already left and started their own synod.

The LCMS has it's own problems and could face a split also but the biggest problem I believe here is a difference between the Liberals and Conservatives within the synod.

The LCMS wants at best to preserve the heritage of keeping to Orthodox teachings whereas the ELCA is more concerned with bending to the culture so as to bring more people to the church. It is this broad adherence to the Lutheran confessions that I find troubling about the ELCA. Just because more people belong to one order versus another doesn't mean that the more populated order is the correct one. The ELCA has compromised much to get agreements with other church bodies that truly would not have agreed with Luther about open communion, Baptism etc. The worst of the inter-church agreements was the CCM withe the ECUSA. But prior to that they had communion agreements with PCUSA and a few other agreements.

Mark my words the ELCA will diminish in size once the Sexuality study has been published.

[Pacigoth13]

Are you that sure so many ELCA people are into that? (Homosexual pastors that is). That there are some pro-gay leaders I do not doubt, and I'm sure places like California and Massachusettes and others are much more into it... But, by in large, most of the USA is still very uneasy about the gay thing. The ELCA church I go to is really very conservative on it. Maybe the "leaders" do have the power to push a gay agenda on the ELCA... but would they do something that only themselves and a handful of their friends are into? You can tell a lot by the area a church is in. My local ELCA church is very conservative and the only person there who has heard of liberal theology is the pastor. Go down to the local Episcopal church and the entire congregation is made of Jesus Seminar groupies, the senior rector has lunch with Bishop Spong often, there is a gay pastor, and so on and so forth...

[Orthodox Andrew]

Mucho gracious, all.:clap:

[JVAC]

The worst of the inter-church agreements was the CCM withe the ECUSA.
I'll just say, I think opposite.

Mark my words the ELCA will diminish in size once the Sexuality study has been published.
That is funny, the sexuality study has been published and republished and we have yet to have members leaving in droves! Maybe you would like to read the study, you can get a copy of it at www.elca.org (http://www.elca.org) .

Sadly though I think you meant the National Church Vote, and if that is the case, I am amused that you think it has that much support, it struggled to get the majority vote in my Synod which has the most liberal churches in it.

-James

[Pacigoth13]

I really don't see the ELCA, in general, condoning homosexually active pastors any time soon... I don't think we'll see a huge group of conservatives leave the ELCA... now, maybe we will see a small group of liberals in the ELCA join the UCC or the ECUSA, that I could imagine.

[SPALATIN]

I really don't see the ELCA, in general, condoning homosexually active pastors any time soon... I don't think we'll see a huge group of conservatives leave the ELCA... now, maybe we will see a small group of liberals in the ELCA join the UCC or the ECUSA, that I could imagine.
Actually the final study has not come out yet and when it does you can be sure that the Powers that be will be pushing for agreement. I do feel the ELCA has some problems when they try to push this agenda on their congregations.

I will never go back to an ELCA church.


Scott Strohkirch

[JVAC]

Actually the final study has not come out yet and when it does you can be sure that the Powers that be will be pushing for agreement. I do feel the ELCA has some problems when they try to push this agenda on their congregations.
The study is out http://www.elca.org/faithfuljourney/ . The Council of Bishops already declared "That there is no basis in Scripture nor tradition to support" this kind of stuff, that was in 1993. The powers that be, is the synods and there are far too many conservative synods to pass this stuff.

I will never go back to an ELCA church.
Your loss!

-James

[Willy]

No, to the original question. We Lutherans see the Bible as the manger that holds the Christ (Luther's view). For us, it bears witness to the gospel and ultimately to the primacy of God. The Bible is in no way inerrant. To claim so is to have to do some hard work to make it so.

[JVAC]

No, to the original question. We Lutherans see the Bible as the manger that holds the Christ (Luther's view). For us, it bears witness to the gospel and ultimately to the primacy of God. The Bible is in no way inerrant. To claim so is to have to do some hard work to make it so.

Again we come back to Lotar's elloquent statement "The Bible is perfect in all matters of faith"

-James

[clayrichard]

No, to the original question. We Lutherans see the Bible as the manger that holds the Christ (Luther's view). For us, it bears witness to the gospel and ultimately to the primacy of God. The Bible is in no way inerrant. To claim so is to have to do some hard work to make it so.Can a bible churcher who was just browsing speak?

Several years ago I read an artical that mentioned why the LCMS wouldn't join up with the other 2 main synods. The reason the LCMS gave was they were not willing to back down from inerrancy. Luther believed inerancy. That's not just Lutheran history, thats Protestant history. One of the suposed herisies he was booted for was that only scripture was inerrant and not church councels or other church fathers. He did, however question the canonisity of Hebrews (didn't believe it was Pauline, therefore not apostolic, and believe it taught works) as well as james(he felt it tought works)

Any body see the movie "Luther" in theators a few months ago? Gave a clear gospel presintation as well as a even handed (other words not exsesive) presintation to Luthers obsesive trates without diminishing his mesage or making him a nut case. That emotional disorder that nearly resulted in his death before he realised he couldn't please God in his flesh by beating and abusing himself was probably used by God to get the truth out after his conversion. Any way it's an awsome movie. if you didn't see it you should rent it! By the way, he was right in as far as Hebrews isn't Pauline.

[Bulldog]

Pretty much.

Except for some of the Danish Lutheran pastors, who don't even believe in God ;)

[BronxBriar]

No other "book" fills me when I am empty, gives me hope when I despair, puts me in my place when I am full of pride, gets me moving when I feel like hiding under the covers, revives me when I feel spiritually dead.....in that respect, for me at least, it IS perfect.

[JVAC]

Except for some of the Danish Lutheran pastors, who don't even believe in God ;)
Ooooooohhh, I get it again....

I just want to say my Congregation is Danish by descent and not directly tied to any heretical, anti-God statements.

-James

[Pacigoth13]

Ah yes, the gospel of Christian atheism.