Do Lutherans believe in the Rapture?

[Cary.Melvin]

Do Lutherans believe in the Rapture (Pre-millenial view)?

[ByzantineDixie]

No we are amillennialists. Here is a link to the LCMS position on the subject.

http://www.lcms.org/graphics/assets/media/CTCR/endtme-2.pdf

Peace

Rose

[Pacigoth13]

*gasp* wow, so the LCMS isn't entirely fundamentalistic on an issue... wow.

[Lotar]

:rolleyes: boy I miss that

We are confessional, orthodox, traditionalist, etc. We are not fundamentalist, we are not the ones who innovate.

[Protoevangel]

Yea, it's too bad we have let the name get twisted into the opposite of what it really means.

Fundamental:
- Of or relating to the foundation or base; elementary.
- Forming or serving as an essential component of a system or structure; central.

...ist:
- An adherent or advocate of a specified doctrine, theory, or school of thought.

Fundamentalist:
One who adheres or advocates the basics and that which is essential to the faith.

Fundamentalism is nothing more than unqualified acceptance of and submission to Scripture. "If that is what Scripture says, that is what I believe."


--Reclaiming fundamentalism! ;)

[Rechtgläubig]

Do Lutherans believe in the Rapture?
Yes.

Do Lutherans believe in the Rapture (Pre-millenial view)?
No.

:D

[Rechtgläubig]

...just like the creeds say ;)



“Sleeping” believers will miss nothing that Paul mentions here: the cry of Jesus commanding them to come forth; the archangel’s signal on the trumpet; the visible coming down of Christ. Other passages of Scripture reinforce some of the details mentioned here. For example, Jesus says (John 5:28) “Marvel not at this; for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice and shall come forth,” and (Matthew 24:31), “he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other,” and again the Apostle Paul writes (I Corinthians 15:51b-52), “ … we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.”

The resurrection will take place in a moment. Then both groups of believers, the former “dead” and the living, “simultaneously” and “together” will be taken up to meet Christ in the air. a#ma su_n, according to Arndt & Gingrich, is used “to denote what belongs together in time and place” (p. 41). All the believers “form one joint host that is lifted in a divine raptus to meet their heavenly Lord as he descends” (Lenski, p. 336f.).

The verb a(rpa/zw, “caught up,” is used elsewhere in scripture to describe the catching away of Philip from the Ethiopian (Acts 8:39); of Paul into the third heaven (II Corinthians 12:2); and of Christ’s ascension into heaven (Revelation 12:5).

In this context the words “into the air” do not imply a disappearance, as teachers of The Rapture insist. Rather they refer to the visible saints with glorified bodies meeting Christ as he is visibly returning. Then at once the final judgment will take place.

This miraculous meeting with Christ and remaining with Christ forever is the blessed, glorious hope that the Lord himself gave the Thessalonians through the Apostle. This hope comforts all Christians, when living and when dying. It is with this hope in mind that Luther writes: “One must look upon a Christian death with different eyes, not the way a cow stares at a new gate … (but) by learning to speak and think of it as the Scriptures do and not considering deceased Christians to be dead and buried people. To the five senses that is the way it appears. As far as they can lead us, it brings only woe. Therefore go beyond them and listen to what St. Paul says here, that they are sleeping in Christ and God will bring them with Christ …” (LW 51, p. 239f.).



(An Exegetical Study of I Thessalonians 4:13-18 with Reference to the Rapture)

[Pacigoth13]

there is no rapture

[ChiRho]

there is no rapture

That is your relative truth. I feel that your assertion is too general and implies an absolute...there are no absolutes, and even if there was...we would not know it. :cool:

Pax Christi,

ChiRho

[SPALATIN]

*gasp* wow, so the LCMS isn't entirely fundamentalistic on an issue... wow.
Actually I like to think of it as we are Orthodox in our teaching versus the Fundamentalist who is Heterodox.

[Pacigoth13]

ChiRho,

Of course that is my own relative conclusion and opinion. Of course an absolute is implied, one can only have relativism with absolutism. The absolute is God, not the rapture.

[SPALATIN]

Do I believe in the Rapture? While I know that those who put stock in the Left Behind series do believe in a rapture I don't concur with them on this. It isn't scriptural.

[Lotar]

Rapture in amillenialist terms is not the same as the dispensationalist belief.

At the end we will be caught up into the heavens in our glorified bodies, to be judged. We don't believe in a Left Behind theory of believers being raptured away.

[Flipper]

I'm actually 1/2 way through "Glorious Appearing" (hard to get into it when you know what the ending is going to be), and I am a fan for the series as entertaining light reading.

My personal position sort of leans between post-tribber and no-tribber. I do, however, think we should live our lives as though we are to be raptured tomorrow, just in case I'm wrong about the theory.

[Lotar]

I'm pretty much an amillenial, but as far as the confessions go, there's no Lutheran dogma on this. To me, it doesn't seem like it's really considered a big issue in the Lutheran Church, like it is in the evangelical/baptist churches.

[Phoebe]

Christ has died, Christ has risen, Christ will come again.
I don't care how it happens, I just know He will come again.

[Flipper]

Christ has died, Christ has risen, Christ will come again.
I don't care how it happens, I just know He will come again.
Amen to that. I think He makes it abundantly clear in Matthew that not even HE knows when that will be.

[Lotar]

True, true.

I don't understand the obsession with the endtimes theology. He'll come when He comes.

[Flipper]

The way I see it, we've been in end times since the second Jesus died on the cross.

[JVAC]

duplicate :sorry:

-James

[JVAC]

Christ has died, Christ has risen, Christ will come again.
I love that! I also enjoy the Creed's comments about this stuff.


Rapture is sorta like Purgatory, I'll believe it if I see it.

-James

[ChiRho]

Amen to that. I think He makes it abundantly clear in Matthew that not even HE knows when that will be.


Huh? You believe that God does not know when He will come?

Pax Christi,

ChiRho

[Phoebe]

Read Matthew 24:36

[Bulldog]

Just curious,

Do Lutherans hold the belief (like I do) that the rapture is a spiritual event occuring at one's death?

[Flipper]

Read Matthew 24:36
No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

Better yet, Acts 1:6-7: So when they met together, they asked him, "Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?"
He said to them: "It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority."

[JVAC]

Rapture in the sence, people will be taken body and soul and others left behind for some sort of tribulation isn't really biblical and isn't Lutheran.

The only Rapture that is supported by the Lutheran Church is the final judgement where all bodies and souls will be taken up and judged.

-James

[filosofer]

Just curious,

Do Lutherans hold the belief (like I do) that the rapture is a spiritual event occuring at one's death?
Not quite. While the "end of the present age" happens for the person at death or at the end when Jesus returns and the result is the same, there is a slight difference. The rapture (as presented in 1 Thes. 4) refers to the end of time, at which time the dead in Christ will be brought forth from the graves with body and soul united, and those who are still alive will be "taken up" (hARPTW) to be with Christ.

[Breetai]

Do Lutherans hold the belief (like I do) that the rapture is a spiritual event occuring at one's death?

Where would you get that idea from? I suppose that you could say that the soul is raptured from the body at the point of death, but that is a different thing from the rapture coinsiding with the second advent of Christ; our bodies will also be raptured. They will be resurrected.

Where do you get your religious influence, Bulldog?

[Bulldog]

I am not going to debate here, it seems as though I have started a controversy.

Ironically, I get my support from 1 Thessalonians 4:6. I could go through an explanationif everyonme is dying to know ow that is...

[Breetai]

Ironically, I get my support from 1 Thessalonians 4:6. I could go through an explanationif everyonme is dying to know ow that is...

1 Thes 4:6
...and that in this matter no one should wrong his brother or take advantage of him. The Lord will punish men for all such sins, as we have already told you and warned you.
:D I think you mean verse 16.

15-17
According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

[Bulldog]

I think you're right :sorry:

[Breetai]

If course, I'm always right.:D

I really am curious though...where do you get your ideas from? From a pastor, teacher or friends? From books? I'm pretty curious.

[JVAC]

If course, I'm always right.
Oxymoron? I think so! ;)

LOL

-James

[Breetai]

Oxymoron? I think so! ;)

LOL

-James;)

[Bulldog]

If course, I'm always right.:D

I really am curious though...where do you get your ideas from? From a pastor, teacher or friends? From books? I'm pretty curious.

A book. ;)

I get it from a lot of places.a lot from pastors. However, what I ma exposing is not my pastor's belief.

[Breetai]

I get it from a lot of places.a lot from pastors. However, what I ma exposing is not my pastor's belief.

No offence...but I should hope not! Which book are you reading? I'd place it on the Catholic Index of heretical books.:D

[Bulldog]

I was talking about the Bible ;)

[Breetai]

Keep reading it. Learn Greek and Hebrew while you're at it too.;)