Reunifying with the Roman Catholic Church

[Jay2004]

I have one question, I know that the Pope and the Archbishop of Canterbury have been speaking in regards to reunifying the church. How do Anglicans feel in regards to this. Will they support the Archbishop of Canterbury if he decides that the Anglican church should return to the Roman Catholic church?

[PaladinValer]

The AC isn't going to merge with the Catholic Church anytime soon. True, of all the other denominations of Christianity besides the Orthodox, we Anglicans/Episcopalians are closest to the Catholic Church, but we have our differences as well.

The Vatican II did improve relationships between our Churches, but both sides are going to have to make further changes, and there are some things in which the Anglican Communion and the Catholic Church will not be changing anytime in the near future.

I would love it if the Catholic Church and Anglican Communion would join together in Full Communion first and then completely merge, but it simply won't happen. The Catholic Church, though I highly respect it, is still in need of some reforms as it, unlike the Anglican Communion, is still "limiting." The Anglican Communion is too diverse, which isn't our greatest weakness but in reality our greatest strength. As Jesus was open to all, so is the Anglican Communion, and its openess continues to grow and empower people to come to their Lord and Savior.

Furthermore, you need to remember that the Anglican Communion isn't as hierarchical as your Catholic Church. All our provinces (Episcopal Church USA, Church of England, Anglican Church of Canada, Anglican Church of Australia, etc) are independent whereas the Catholic Church is highly regimented and utterly centralized to the core with few exceptions (the Eastern Rites). The Anglican Communion is centralized in the sense that we are in Full Communion with the Holy See of Canterbury and that we meet together at Lambeth. The ABC is our first-among-equals, but has no direct power over any province besides his own (though all provinces and indeed all Anglicans listen extremely carefully to everything he says and Lambeth decides). Just because the ABC were to join with the Catholic Church doesn't mean the rest of all Anglicanism will.

Right now, there is serious discussion in our Communion about what is the Anglican Communion. Our Communion structure isn't in "chaos," but it is open to change. Will it change in the future? Its possible; I personally would like to see a little more centralized authority; like that of the Eastern Orthodox Church, but only so far, as I enjoy the independence of the provinces. But don't hold your breath; we Anglicans are known to think things over long, hard, and prayerfully before we make rash decisions.

[Jay2004]

Hello,

Does the AC reckognize the Pontiff in any way? I.E. Primacy of Honour.
The reason why I ask, is that I read an article saying that the AC and The RC were close to signing a declaration of Authority.

[Karl - Liberal Backslider]

The Pope is the Bishop of Rome. He does not have any authority over the Anglican church, nor are his pronouncements taken to be infallible, ex cathedra or not.

If I think of the reasons I would not become a Catholic, they are the same as the biggest sticking points between us as I see it - papal infallibility and ordination of women.

[PaladinValer]

I must echo Karl - Liberal Backslider and add two more:

1. Marriage of priests
2. Everyone should be welcome for Communion and receive both Elements so long as they have been baptized in Trinitarian fashion, mode (sprinkling, pouring, immersion) regardless.

[Jay2004]

Hello,

I may be Catholic, but I personally do not agree with the Papal infallibility. I believe clergy should be allowed to marry, but I am not sure about ordination of women.:priest:

[TomUK]

I must echo Karl - Liberal Backslider and add two more:

1. Marriage of priests
2. Everyone should be welcome for Communion and receive both Elements so long as they have been baptized in Trinitarian fashion, mode (sprinkling, pouring, immersion) regardless.

I agree with the above two, and Karl's papal infallibility (though i must admit not the ordination of women Priests :sorry: ) and if i may i'll add one of my own - the immaculate conception. I've spent a lot of time reflecting on it and reading about but i just can't accept it.

Note to any Catholics, this shouldn't read like a 'hey, let's list what's wrong with Catholics' thread. It's just stating why we believe that the Anglican Communion and the Catholic Church won't reunite- though i must admit, it'd be a glorious day if we did!

[pmcleanj]

Substantive -- albeit asymmetric -- communion already exists between that portion of the Catholic Church that is in communion with Rome, and that portion of the Catholic Church which is in communion with Canterbury. We accept, for example, the validity of Catholic Orders -- naturally, because our own orders are Catholic. We accept the validity of Catholic Sacraments -- again, because our own sacraments are Catholic. We accept Catholics at our altars, and welcome them to share with us in the Lord's Supper -- because we ourselves are Catholic. How much more union should we wish for?

Well, to be frank, we could wish that the communion be reciprocal. But Vatican documents, such as the relatively recent Dominus Iesus (http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20000806_dominus-iesus_en.html), have been explicit that that portion of the Catholic Church which is in communion with Rome will not consider communion with any portion of the Catholic Church that doesn't submit to the authority of the Bishop of Rome. And we are very clear and committed to the Tradition that the authority of Bishops is final and independent. We respect highly the office of the Archbishop of Canterbury, but he is not (despite what you regularly read in the secular press, not known for its accuracy on spiritual matters) "the spiritual leader of 77 million Anglicans world wide". Primates and Archbishops in the Anglican communion exercise leadership, and some administrative authority (they chair synods, summon councils or courts, and so on) but they do not exercise *authority* over other Bishops. We rely on the authority of God, conscience, individual Bishops -- and on our often slow and clumsy attempts to find consensus.

The Anglican Church cannot "return to the Roman Catholic Church" because it never left the *Roman* Catholic Church. The Roman Catholic Church came into existence as a separate distinction with the mutual and shameful excommunications of Bishops in communion with either Rome or Cantebury sundered the Catholic Church. Anglicans have repented of those ancient excommunications, and consider them null.

The Archbishop of Canterbury could submit to the authority of the Bishop of Rome, but that would only bring *him* (and presumably those priests who are in obedience to him) into communion with Rome. It would not restore the catholicity of the Catholic Church, because the remaining umpteen Anglican bishops would still, independently or through our awkward and slow consensus-building process, have all to decide that they too choose to abandon their Traditional independence. The probability of that is remote in the extreme.

At least as remote as the Bishop of Rome's abandoning his insistence on our Bishops subordinating their independence to his claimed authority.