some questions about what you believe :)

[MoNiCa4316]

:wave: Hello! I really don't know much about what Anglicans believe. All I know is what I've read in CS Lewis books - he was Anglican - but he wrote about general Christianity, not his faith in particular. (btw CS Lewis is awesome). So I have some questions :)

1. do you consider yourselves Protestants? Anglican doctrine seems so different from other non-Catholic-non-Orthodox doctrine...

2. do you believe in the real presence in Communion? do you believe that the bread and wine actually become Christ's Body and Blood?

3. do you pray to saints?

4. does Mary have a significant part in your devotion?

thanks! :wave:

monica

[karen freeinchristman]

:wave: Hello! I really don't know much about what Anglicans believe. All I know is what I've read in CS Lewis books - he was Anglican - but he wrote about general Christianity, not his faith in particular. (btw CS Lewis is awesome). So I have some questions :)

1. do you consider yourselves Protestants? Anglican doctrine seems so different from other non-Catholic-non-Orthodox doctrine...

2. do you believe in the real presence in Communion? do you believe that the bread and wine actually become Christ's Body and Blood?

3. do you pray to saints?

4. does Mary have a significant part in your devotion?

thanks! :wave:

monica
Hi Monica!

The answers you'll get here will vary a bit from person to person, because Anglicanism holds broad views on these topics - and we here in the Anglican forum are fairly representative of the breadth and diversity in our denomination. With that said, here are my own answers to your questions:

1. do you consider yourselves Protestants? Anglican doctrine seems so different from other non-Catholic-non-Orthodox doctrine...Some Anglicans do consider themselves Protestants and some consider themselves catholics (small 'c' - because we get in trouble from others if we try to use a big 'C'). Many consider themselves to be orthodox as well, of course, using a small 'o'. We are not as straightforwardly classified as other denominations are. We are Protestant in that have removed ourselves from the authority of the Pope.



2. do you believe in the real presence in Communion? do you believe that the bread and wine actually become Christ's Body and Blood?
Most Anglicans do believe in the 'real presence' - I do. I believe in a spiritual real presence.


3. do you pray to saints?
Some do; I do not.



4. does Mary have a significant part in your devotion?
For some, she does; for me, she does not play a significant part in my devotions.

[PaladinValer]

:wave: Hello! I really don't know much about what Anglicans believe. All I know is what I've read in CS Lewis books - he was Anglican - but he wrote about general Christianity, not his faith in particular. (btw CS Lewis is awesome). So I have some questions.

Actually, I would argue his views were quite Apostolic; most readers simply don't seem to get that jist.

1. do you consider yourselves Protestants? Anglican doctrine seems so different from other non-Catholic-non-Orthodox doctrine...

No.

2. do you believe in the real presence in Communion? do you believe that the bread and wine actually become Christ's Body and Blood?

Yes and yes.

3. do you pray to saints?

If you mean by prayer "petition," then yes. If you mean "veneration," then yes.

4. does Mary have a significant part in your devotion?

Yes. The Anglican Church has several days officially devoted to her.

[SirTimothy]

We are Protestants--we object to the abuses of the Church of Rome in the 15th and 16th Centuries. We are Reformed in that we reformed the church of England into it's own indigenous church after illegal occupation from the Bishop of Rome. We are Catholic in that we believe ourselves to be part of the one whole church universal that belongs to Christ. We are Apostolic, not only do we believe ourselves to be the fullest expression of the faith of the apostles, we are also a sent-out church into the world by Christ.

[Albion]

Hello! I really don't know much about what Anglicans believe. All I know is what I've read in CS Lewis books - he was Anglican - but he wrote about general Christianity, not his faith in particular. (btw CS Lewis is awesome). So I have some questions :)

1. do you consider yourselves Protestants?

First, let me say "Hello" to you too!

Yes, we do consider ourselves Protestants since that is what we are. But since we retain some important catholic, not specifically Roman Catholic, beliefs such as Apostolic Succession, some of us want to assert that this is part of our nature also. It is also important to recognize that we did not begin during the Reformation as the other Protestant churches did.

Anglican doctrine seems so different from other non-Catholic-non-Orthodox doctrine...

How so? We usually think and say that we have no doctrines of our own.

2. do you believe in the real presence in Communion?

Yes.

do you believe that the bread and wine actually become Christ's Body and Blood?

Surely, but it depends on what you mean by "actually."

The Articles of Religion say of this that we receive the body and blood of Christ only in a spiritual and heavenly way. We do not accept the Roman Catholic idea of a literal, carnal change of bread into bleeding flesh such as our bodies consist of or to or the Lutheran idea, either. Most of us would say that it's really Christ's body but how that can be and in what way is a mystery.

3. do you pray to saints?

Some individuals do, but it's denounced as a practice by the Articles of Religion, and the Prayerbook and our liturgy/worship service DO NOT include any prayers to the saints. Since the principle of how one prays shows how one believes is often considered an important test, this absence of a provision for prayer to the saints should be considered significant.

4. does Mary have a significant part in your devotion?

No. Even the extreme right wing of Anglicanism which aspires to being considered as Catholic as the Catholics does not really make of Mary what is claimed, and certainly not anything along the lines of what the Roman Catholic or Eastern churches do.

thanks! :wave:

You're welcome.

[AngCath]

1. do you consider yourselves Protestants? Anglican doctrine seems so different from other non-Catholic-non-Orthodox doctrine...
-no, not Protestant. We have significant differences with much of Protestantism.

2. do you believe in the real presence in Communion? do you believe that the bread and wine actually become Christ's Body and Blood?
-Yes & yes (though I reject Trans).

3. do you pray to saints?
-regularly, though I do not expect nor require it of others.

4. does Mary have a significant part in your devotion?
-Yes, I pray the rosary daily.

[Markus6]

1. do you consider yourselves Protestants? Anglican doctrine seems so different from other non-Catholic-non-Orthodox doctrine...
Technically we're not protestants as the church wasn't a product of the reformation. However, when we had our own split from the Catholic church (Henry VIII) the leaders of the church used it as an opportunity to incorporate protestant theology into our doctrines. Practically we end up as a bit of a mix: there are some very Catholic traditions (especially in higher churches) and some very protestant doctrine. With the wide range of styles in the CofE in particular you could walk into a church you'd be convinced was Catholic and next week walk into one that seemed as far away from Catholicism as you can get.

2. do you believe in the real presence in Communion? do you believe that the bread and wine actually become Christ's Body and Blood?

Physically I think it's symbolic but I do think it is his body and blood in a sense.

3. do you pray to saints?

Nope.

4. does Mary have a significant part in your devotion?

Nope.

[Adammi]

lol...I think that the only thing to be assumed from this thread about Anglicans is that they are a very diverse group.

[Albion]

lol...I think that the only thing to be assumed from this thread about Anglicans is that they are a very diverse group.

Oh, I don't know.

While Anglicans certainly are diverse--and you've heard from a representative sampling here--there was basic agreement on the Real Presence, that the role of the saints is not as strongly asserted as in the RC or EO churches, and that the word "Protestant" is not entirely acceptable to us unless we are allowed to tell how we are unlike the churches that people normally call Protestant without any hesitation (Baptists, Lutherans, Methodists, Presbyterians, etc.).

There's no absolute right or wrong, and I understand how people are going to read the answers differently, but I saw more commonality in them than you apparently did.

[MoNiCa4316]

Thanks for the replies! :) yes I can see that Anglicans are pretty diverse! ;) I am wondering specifically about your beliefs on Communion....how different is it from the Catholic belief? When you hear "real presence"..how do you understand that? thanks :wave:

God bless

monica

[Albion]

Thanks for the replies! :) yes I can see that Anglicans are pretty diverse! ;) I am wondering specifically about your beliefs on Communion....how different is it from the Catholic belief? When you hear "real presence"..how do you understand that? thanks :wave:

God bless

monica

The Roman Catholic belief is Transubstantiation--the bread and wine cease to exist, although it looks as though they don't, and they become literally the carnal flesh and blood of Jesus. We reject that.

But we all believe in the Real Presence, not that it's only a symbol.

How that occurs is a mystery. It's Real, but in an inexplicable, heavenly way that transcends explanation in the way that Transubstantiation is a specific explanation.

[higgs2]

The Roman Catholic belief is Transubstantiation--the bread and wine cease to exist, although it looks as though they don't, and they become literally the carnal flesh and blood of Jesus. We reject that.

But we all believe in the Real Presence, not that it's only a symbol.

How that occurs is a mystery. It's Real, but in an inexplicable, heavenly way that transcends explanation in the way that Transubstantiation is a specific explanation.

I agree with your explanation of Real Presence (well said). But I do think there are some Anglicans who would say they believe in transubstantiation.

[JasonV]

FWIW,

Old Catholic denominations are just as diverse as Anglicans on the Eucharist issues. However, I believe we are more likely to have Marian devotions and venerate the Saints than most Anglicans.

[MoNiCa4316]

It sounds like Anglicans view Communion much like the Eastern Orthodox ;)

[Albion]

It sounds like Anglicans view Communion much like the Eastern Orthodox ;)

There's certainly a similarity there in that we all are reluctant to over-define a mystery (as we might say the Romans do).

However, many orthodox Anglicans ( including myself) would say that the change is entirely spiritual (which is not to say symbolic). My understanding of Orthodox thinking is that you'd say it's more than that.

[Mrs.Sidhe]

As others I'm sure have said you will get several types of answers from different people. Its just not the same for all people. I will give my personal answers as to what I believe.


1. do you consider yourselves Protestants? Anglican doctrine seems so different from other non-Catholic-non-Orthodox doctrine... I personally do not. I consider myself a liberal Anglo-Catholic with a distinct eastern christian POV--meaning a lot of my Christology and theology is leans closer to eastern christianity or EO than western Christianity. However I also am universalist so that is different than other people as well.

2. do you believe in the real presence in Communion? do you believe that the bread and wine actually become Christ's Body and Blood? Yes and Yes but how it happens or if you want an explanation--it is mystery. For me personally it cheapens it to call it simply a "memorial" , a symbol or that its just spiritual. To me its both. Its really the flesh but its also a spiritual thing. That is just my view though...*shrugs*

3. do you pray to saints? Again, I do everyday. This is also something that annoys me because in my experience veneration and praying to the saints is a tradition that is being thrown out to appeal to more "protestant" sensibilities. Its not outlawed but it is certainly not encouraged--at least to the extent I think it should which it would be encouraged in a similar fashion to RC and EO but by no means forced upon anyone to do. I do realize you know some people just aren't "there" yet as my friend likes to say. :)

4. does Mary have a significant part in your devotion? For me personally, she has a very significant part in my devotion. I have a very large devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary and I am going to join a group called "Anglican Marianists" in the next few months (when I buckle myself down to a more strict rule of devotion). The church has several feasts appointed to her. Again my feelings on this are similar to the question you had about saints. People want to throw tradition out the window just to appeal to certain sensibilities. I mean I don't want it to be dogma but I think people who do have devotions to the Blessed Mother or to the Saints should not be looked at as weird and I think this kind of thing should be encouraged and fostered in a similar extend as the EO and RC But again, this is MY opinion and its my personal beliefs--not everyone is going to have the same ones in the Anglican Communion.

thanks! :wave:

monica

You are welcome. :)

[ThePilgrim]

It sounds like Anglicans view Communion much like the Eastern Orthodox ;)
Not exactly. We (Orthodox) believe unequivocally that the Eucharist *is* the Body and Blood of Christ, physically. Anglicans hold a variety of different beliefs.

Grace and peace,
John

[Albion]

Not exactly. We (Orthodox) believe unequivocally that the Eucharist *is* the Body and Blood of Christ, physically. Anglicans hold a variety of different beliefs.

Grace and peace,
John

Not exactly. We Anglicans DO believe that the Eucharist *is* the Body and Blood of Christ. Exactly how that is is what's open to question.

[Mrs.Sidhe]

Not exactly. We Anglicans DO believe that the Eucharist *is* the Body and Blood of Christ. Exactly how that is is what's open to question.
I think more what he means is that more likely than not most Orthodox believe that the Eucharist is the body and blood of Jesus and that its a kinda clear teaching of the Church.

That may not be as true with Anglicans. (as is obvious since one person here said they believe it was symbolic)

This is what I took his statement to mean...

[higgs2]

Not exactly. We Anglicans DO believe that the Eucharist *is* the Body and Blood of Christ. Exactly how that is is what's open to question.

Kind of like: "What is the definition of 'is' ". :P

[Albion]

I think more what he means is that more likely than not most Orthodox believe that the Eucharist is the body and blood of Jesus and that its a kinda clear teaching of the Church.

That may not be as true with Anglicans. (as is obvious since one person here said they believe it was symbolic)

This is what I took his statement to mean...

Could be, but what I took him to mean is that they believe that it is the literal, carnal, flesh and blood of Christ--except that there is no explanation of how a change from bread and wine occurs (in contrast to the RCC, which spells it out mechanically as much as a mystery can be spelled out).

You're right of course that Anglicans hold a range of opinions, but although one of us said it's symbolic I also note that he qualified that answer in a way that suggested something in the opposite direction. I am thinking that 'symbolic' is not exactly what he was trying to convey. In any case, pure symbolism or representationalism would be very atypical of even the most Low Church Anglicans.

[pmcleanj]

Kind of like: "What is the definition of 'is' ". :P

:P yourself!

Perhaps not coincidentally, the theory of "transubstantiation" always struck me as an attempt to redefine "is". You know: "it IS actual flesh, it just LOOKS like starch-and-gluten, TASTES like starch-and-gluten, SMELLS like starch-and-gluten, REACTS with Iodine like starch-and-gluten, interferes with Celiac digestion like starch-and-gluten, breaks down into sugars like starch-and-gluten, keeps unrefrigerated in a Pix like starch-and-gluten -- but those are all just "attributes" and in every "real" way it "really" IS flesh.

Can you tell that my personal ethic of empiricism denies transubstantiation?:D

[higgs2]

:P yourself! You know, the theory of "transubstantiation" always struck me as an attempt to redefine "is". You know: "it IS actual flesh, it just LOOKS like starch-and-gluten, TASTES like starch-and-gluten, SMELLS like starch-and-gluten, REACTS with Iodine like starch-and-gluten, interferes with Celiac digestion like starch-and-gluten, breaks down into sugars like starch-and-gluten, keeps unrefrigerated in a Pix like starch-and-gluten -- but those are all just "attributes" and in every "real" way it "really" IS flesh.

Can you tell that my personal ethic of empiricism denies transubstantiation?:D


Well, maybe you need to try centering prayer.
:P

[pmcleanj]

Well, maybe you need to try centering prayer.
:P

I'm too busy trying to figure out how to turn the long rectangular sections of street boulevard adjacent to my property, into golden-alyssum-trimmed labyrinthes, so that I can avoid future responsibility for mowing said boulevards.

Do rectangular labyrinthes count as a form of centering prayer?

[higgs2]

I'm too busy trying to figure out how to turn the long rectangular sections of street boulevard adjacent to my property, into golden-alyssum-trimmed labyrinthes, so that I can avoid future responsibility for mowing said boulevards.

Do rectangular labyrinthes count as a form of centering prayer?


I think that would be perfect. THen you can walk your rectangular labyrinthes and contemplate the mystery of why those starch and gluten things stick to the roof of your mouth and whether that is good or bad.

[Tawny]

:wave: Hello! I really don't know much about what Anglicans believe. All I know is what I've read in CS Lewis books - he was Anglican - but he wrote about general Christianity, not his faith in particular. (btw CS Lewis is awesome). So I have some questions :)

1. do you consider yourselves Protestants? Anglican doctrine seems so different from other non-Catholic-non-Orthodox doctrine...

I never really considered which 'box' I fell into uneil I came here 4 years ago. I would say I am Anglican with strong Catholic leanings although I disagree doctrinally with some Catholic beliefs

2. do you believe in the real presence in Communion? do you believe that the bread and wine actually become Christ's Body and Blood?

As others have said, I too believe in Real Presence how it happens is a Mystery. Taking Communion is a huge part of my faith and I feel lost if I miss it.


3. do you pray to saints?

Sometimes yes.

4. does Mary have a significant part in your devotion?

Mary has a huge part in my devotion, during my walk in faith I attended a Catholic church and learned the Rosary and the significance of the prayers and Mysteries. I pray both the Marian (Catholic) and the Anglican Rosary alternately at night.

thanks! :wave:

Thank you :)

[higgs2]

:wave: Hello! I really don't know much about what Anglicans believe. All I know is what I've read in CS Lewis books - he was Anglican - but he wrote about general Christianity, not his faith in particular. (btw CS Lewis is awesome). So I have some questions :)

1. do you consider yourselves Protestants? Anglican doctrine seems so different from other non-Catholic-non-Orthodox doctrine...

I never really considered which 'box' I fell into uneil I came here 3 years ago. I would say I am Anglican with strong Catholic leanings although I disagree doctrinally with some Catholic beliefs

2. do you believe in the real presence in Communion? do you believe that the bread and wine actually become Christ's Body and Blood?

As others have said, I too believe in Real Presence how it happens is a Mystery. Taking Communion is a huge part of my faith and I feel lost if I miss it.


3. do you pray to saints?

Sometimes yes.

4. does Mary have a significant part in your devotion?

Mary has a huge part in my devotion, during my walk in faith I attended a Catholic church and learned the Rosary and the significance of the prayers and Mysteries. I pray both the Marian (Catholic) and the Anglican Rosary alternately at night.

thanks! :wave:

Thank you :)

That is very cool that you alternate praying the rosaries each night. I don't have the discipline to pray even one of them.

[Tawny]

That is very cool that you alternate praying the rosaries each night. I don't have the discipline to pray even one of them.

I found it very difficult at first as I had to follow the books all the time, as I got more used to them I have found them a really good way of praying, while saying either the Hail Mary or the Jesus prayer repetitively focuses me for my nightly prayers. Also I sleep really well afterwards....lol