Counter-Reformation and Calvinists

[Donny_B]

The Counter-Reformation began in the 16th century and was an effort to oppose and rollback the Protestant Reformation.

Is the Jesuit oath, which is available on the internet, authentic (which mentions Calvinists and Huguenots and Reformers)?

How has the Counter-Reformation affected today's Protestant and Reformed churches?

[Gabriel]

http://www.christianforums.com/t684278

[Cal]

I read the Jesuit Oath that you referred to and it reminded immediatley of a couple of instances in history that were dramatically influenced by both this oath and the counter-reformation. I'm sure there are many, many more!

The portion of the Jesuit Oath that stuck out was:

"...he hath power to depose heretical Kings, Princes, States, Commonwealths, and Governments, and they may be safely destroyed. Therefore to the utmost of my power I will defend this doctrine and His Holiness's right and custom against all usurpers of the heretical or Protestant authority whatever, especially the Lutheran Church of Germany, Holland, Denmark, Sweden and Norway, and the now pretended authority and Churches of England and Scotland, and the branches of same now established in Ireland and on the continent of America and elsewhere and all adherents in regard that they may be usurped and heretical, opposing the sacred Mother Church of Rome. I do now denounce and disown any allegiance as due to any heretical king, prince or State, named Protestant or Liberal, or obedience to any of their laws, magistrates or officers."

The first historical impact that this oath reminded me of was this:

Garry Willis, a Roman Catholic, explains in his book Witches & Jesuits: Shakespeare’s Macbeth. (Oxford. Oxford University Press. 1995) that Macbeth was just one of many plays in its day that were gunpowder play’s. Willis reiterates the historical account of The Gunpowder Plot of 1605 which was a plot by Catholic Jesuits to destroy England’s Parliament and King James in accordance with their oath and in order to destroy the fruits of the Reformation. He provides evidence that in Macbeth, Shakespeare writes of the theme of the Catholic Jesuit Doctrine of Equivocation. This Jesuit doctrine states that one can say something different than what he really believes and remain guiltless in the sight of God. Therefore the Jesuits guilty of trying to kill King James and Parliament could say with their mouths in court that they did not try to kill them but in their hearts say "did try to kill them" and not be guilty before God. This doctrine was discovered in communications between the Jesuits on trial and Jesuits in Rome who were trying to help them. Willis said Shakespeare, who was living through this time and a friend of King James and the Reformation, portrayed the witches in Macbeth as Jesuits and then wove into Macbeth the Jesuit Doctrine of Equivocation. This is what the witches meant when they utter that famous phrase “Double double toil and trouble.” “The most notorious examples of equivocation in Macbeth are the witches’ prophesies for Macbeth” Specifically, Macbeth is prophesied by the witches to become king. So, Macbeth reasons with equivocation that he can kill the current king, because he was prophesied to become king anyway. Also, the witches tell him that “None of woman born shall kill Macbeth” (4.1.94-95). Macbeth is deceived by this because of this equivocating language but we later find out a man born of a C-Section kills him. “Susceptible to these equivocations, Macbeth is misled and indirectly destroyed by them.”


The second was this:

Dr. Frank Hancock, an independent scientist, has developed a theory to account for the high mortality rate in Jamestown's early years. He believes that it was a Jesuit plot to destroy the Protestant colony at the same time as the Gun Powder Plot, and that someone could have put arsenic in the settlement's food supply. This theory and substantial evidence supporting it was recently featured on PBS.

[BBAS 64]

The Counter-Reformation began in the 16th century and was an effort to oppose and rollback the Protestant Reformation.

Is the Jesuit oath, which is available on the internet, authentic (which mentions Calvinists and Huguenots and Reformers)?

How has the Counter-Reformation affected today's Protestant and Reformed churches?
Good Day, Donny

Great question, I have heard of the oath you refer to but have never read it. I have done some reading around this historic event. The hiustory that contributed to the refromation is interesting and seen though out the whole of history upto the refromation it's self.

BB Warfeild stated that the refromation was the victory of Augusine view of Grace winning the battle over his view of the church. I think based on what I have seen this is accurate. That is not to say others before the refromation did not contribute and was soley based on Agustine.

The counter refromation IMO, was an attempt to rewrite the history that procedeed the refromation proper. This does effect the current state of the reformed faith in so much that some including my self have little knowlegde of the history before the refromation.

Peace to u,

Bill

[II Paradox II]

The counter refromation IMO, was an attempt to rewrite the history that procedeed the refromation proper. This does effect the current state of the reformed faith in so much that some including my self have little knowlegde of the history before the refromation.
On the point of knowledge of history, I personally think more Reformed Christians should get into the details of history and really look at what's there. Having just skimmed the surface, I am amazed at how little the popular treatments of history (from any bias - reformed, catholic, anabaptist, etc..) manage to accurately represent what has come before us.

As I've read i've started to connect the historical dots and see how our different ideas and even rhetoric have developed over time (and how some have stayed the same). It really has helped open my eyes to many issues within the church...

ken

[A. believer]

On the point of knowledge of history, I personally think more Reformed Christians should get into the details of history and really look at what's there. Having just skimmed the surface, I am amazed at how little the popular treatments of history (from any bias - reformed, catholic, anabaptist, etc..) manage to accurately represent what has come before us.

As I've read i've started to connect the historical dots and see how our different ideas and even rhetoric have developed over time (and how some have stayed the same). It really has helped open my eyes to many issues within the church...

ken
I absolutely agree, and I find it extremely frustrating to be told, whenever I raise any issue calling into question the standard Roman Catholic view, something along the lines of, "You're just an anti-Catholic who hates the Church and wants to attack her every chance you get!"

[tigersnare]

I absolutely agree, and I find it extremely frustrating to be told, whenever I raise any issue calling into question the standard Roman Catholic view, something along the lines of, "You're just an anti-Catholic who hates the Church and wants to attack her every chance you get!"

Yeah that's getting really old, I am not "Anti-Catholic" but I do disagree with that Church as for as I believe they have distorted the heart of the gospel. If that is anti-Catholic, give me a break....I have Catholic friends for crying out loud. Just because I disagree with thier theology and doctrine does not make me anti anything. It makes me Protestant.

[calgal]

Yeah that's getting really old, I am not "Anti-Catholic" but I do disagree with that Church as for as I believe they have distorted the heart of the gospel. If that is anti-Catholic, give me a break....I have Catholic friends for crying out loud. Just because I disagree with thier theology and doctrine does not make me anti anything. It makes me Protestant.Well said. I do believe (as did Luther and Calvin) that the Catholic church distorted Christian beliefs into an unrecognizable entity but do not have a problem with Catholics as a group (I do dislike Teddy Kennedy though....;) )

[Donny_B]

One of the historical implications of the Counter-Reformation was the escape of Protestants from Europe to America to escape persecution from Rome. This was the prime motive for Protestants settling in America, even before they sought independence from the British Crown. So the Counter-Reformation contributed indirectly to the establishment of the Bill of Rights of the U.S. Constitution. Interestingly, since then, many Catholics have also settled in America, and they have also enjoyed the benefits of such freedoms.