The Lords Prayer

[EruditeJoy]

Our Father, Who art in heaven, hallowed be Thy Name. Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth, as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from the evil one.

I am curious to know how some of you view this prayer. If you recite the prayer, what is your purpose for doing so?

I remember when I was a child, our church used to recite this prayer frequently. I was told that this is how Jesus says we should pray. But I never really considered what that meant.

It often seems to me that many of the Believers I know (myself included) recite the prayer by rote. It's an "old favourite" and has become a "tradition" of sorts in many of our lives. I have also known many people to pray it over and over and over again as if it were a mantra.

I'm not sure if this is how we were intened to use this prayer. I'm beginning to believe that the prayer is a guide (almost a format) to show us how to pray, not to necessarily be a prayer in and of itself. While there is nothing wrong with reciting the prayer word for word, (personally, I love the prayer) I'm not certain it was mean to be the "ultimate" prayer words and I'm not sure it was intimated that these were the exact words that we were to use when we pray. I have been guilty of pray this with a lack of understanding.

I think that the power of this prayer is not in the words itself, but in understanding what the words represent. When we do, it is then that we understand how to speak to God in prayer. I don't think this comes from reciting a bunch of words that we learned as children. Even if we were to never repeat, verbatim, Jesus exact words (regarding this prayer), would it really matter?

When I hear this prayer (or anything else) said as a mantra to God and repeated over and over and over again, I am often confused. I don't believe God wants us to speak to him in mantras. That's not a conversation.


In Matthew 6:7, just before that prayer, Jesus says:


And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him. Has anyone else seen in others, or realized that they, at one time, have had a fundamental misunderstanding of this prayer? I believe I have.

I certainly don't have all the answers for this and I could be way off, so I'm curious to know what others think. What is the purpose of the Lord's Prayer? Were we meant to recite it verbatim...or even as a mantra of sorts?



Mashavu

[BarbB]

I don't know how others will reply, but it was by this prayer that I was born-again. My husband was ill and I was so backslidden that I didn't know what to pray or how to pray. I prayed the Lord's Prayer and the 23rd Psalm and any others I could remember. Over and over, slowly, with tears, understanding each and every word.

I have since learned that it is the perfect prayer. It incorporates praise, worship, pleas, faith, everything we need to come before God! :bow:

[ZeroTX]

I'm not one of those nut-job KJVO'ers, but when it comes to classic Scripture like this, I have to say the KJV is what its in my heart:

Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil:
For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

Could there be a more perfect example of prayer?

-Michael

[Singz4Him]

....about that prayer: I was raised Catholic. My first exposure to this prayer was to memorize it and be able to recite it. Certain times, we were instructed to recite the prayer as payment for our sins. Other times, we recited the prayer as a church in the worship ceremony.

How that has changed: I began to read the bible as an adult. I now go to a non-denominational church and my pastor taught us to use this prayer as a model. When I have my prayer time, I start with "Our Father which art in heaven" and I stop there and say, "God, I know you are the only true God, our creator, and I know you are in heaven and worthy of my praise...."and I elaborate more fully and with whatever is on my heart that day about who I know God is. I think this model is laid out in a leaflet we had at church. I might be able to find it and post it. Anyway, I stop the word-for-word prayer wherever I feel led at the time I'm reciting it and elaborate however I feel.

It is a perfect model, in that it contains praise, petition, confession, commitment, prayer for protection and deliverance. It never ceases to amaze me at how this model opens a dialog between me and God and gets me thinking about what I need to be thinking about.

Hope that helps....Hugz, Singz4Him

[Singz4Him]

wow, if you type "the Lord's Prayer as a model" in your search engine, there will be many 'hits' that are good. One I was just looking at lists every scripture that applys after each stop. I don't know if I am allowed to post web links on here...I'll look tomorrow...too tired tonight!

[Celticflower]

I find I use the Lord's Prayer in a number of ways.

1) as a model for personal prayer
2) to teach my children to pray
3) in times of distress when I don't know what to pray
4) before communion, since there is no prayer asking for forgiveness before it in our service
5) at odd times of the day when it just pops into my head
6) sometimes when I sing--one of the old settings will come out of my musical memory

I don't recall using it as a mantra, but it can be a good way to center your mind for deeper meditative prayer.

Celtie

[ShirChadash]

....about that prayer: I was raised Catholic. My first exposure to this prayer was to memorize it and be able to recite it. Certain times, we were instructed to recite the prayer as payment for our sins. Other times, we recited the prayer as a church in the worship ceremony.

How that has changed: I began to read the bible as an adult. I now go to a non-denominational church and my pastor taught us to use this prayer as a model. When I have my prayer time, I start with "Our Father which art in heaven" and I stop there and say, "God, I know you are the only true God, our creator, and I know you are in heaven and worthy of my praise...."and I elaborate more fully and with whatever is on my heart that day about who I know God is. I think this model is laid out in a leaflet we had at church. I might be able to find it and post it. Anyway, I stop the word-for-word prayer wherever I feel led at the time I'm reciting it and elaborate however I feel.

It is a perfect model, in that it contains praise, petition, confession, commitment, prayer for protection and deliverance. It never ceases to amaze me at how this model opens a dialog between me and God and gets me thinking about what I need to be thinking about.

Hope that helps....Hugz, Singz4Him
This is quite my experience also.

I used to lead music in Catholic churches, and I always found it interesting how people would get into such an uproar -- in every church I ever was involved in (many, over the years of my life) -- over the music team changing the version of the *sung* "Our Father" during Mass. I found that, often, people had a tendency to get used to the tune of a certain rendition of the "Our Father" we would sing each Mass for a long stretch of time, and then become lulled to the meaning of the words and it was just another song. I also found that changing the tune we chose or going with another Mass set written by a different artist for the liturgy, would make people stop to learn the new tune, and in the process they were forced to slow down and think about the words again somewhat, especially if the words of the prayer were changed up just a bit in the song, too.

I love the Lord's Prayer as a model for prayer, and don't feel it must be prayed exactly as written in scripture, though I too pray it exactly as-is now and again. I think this is beautiful and wanted to share it on this thread, if I may:

Moshiach's Tefillah (Messiah's Prayer, in Hebrew)
http://www.geocities.com/~rabbi1/moshiachf.html

[suzie]

Amen sinzforHim! My sentiments exactly

[Rising_Suns]

When I hear this prayer (or anything else) said as a mantra to God and repeated over and over and over again, I am often confused. I don't believe God wants us to speak to him in mantras. That's not a conversation.

Just for clarification from a Catholic standpoint, the repetition of this prayer is a meditation on God and His Son Jesus Christ by helping to focus our minds and center ourselves around Him. If each prayer is like saying; "I love you", you can see why we do not just say it once. I believe that verse with the pagans babbling on is refering less to meditative prayer and more towards selfish prayer; asking for things that we think we need when we should only be asking for God's will to be done in our lives.

[qhane]

Luke 11:1
One day Jesus was praying in a certain place. When he finished, one of his disciples said to him,Lord teach us to pray, just as John taught his disciples.
The disciple did not ask" teach us a prayer"
Teach us to pray, and Jesus gave the guidelines for prayer.
Unfortunately mankind has always had to analyse prayer into forms and regulations.

[suzie]

very well put ghane. It is quite a model for us and one I try to use in my devotions.

[Knight]

Related question:

Is there any reference for the use of the term "tresspasses" rather than "debts?" I've heard "tresspass" used in Church services but I've yet to find a Bible translation that uses this term. Most all use "debts."

This is a rather minor detail as both terms mean the same thing. However, it is curious.

[suzie]

"debt" (Mt. 6:12), Greek opheilema, 1. "debt = what is owed, one's due." 2. In a religious sense debt = sin (as Aramaic hobah in rabbinical literature) (BAG 598)"trespass"(Mt. 6:14-15, KJV), Greek paraptoma, "false step, transgression, sin" (BAG 621), a compound word from para "beside or near" and pipto "to fall". Thayer (Greek-English Lexicon, p. 485) defines it as "a lapse or deviation from truth and uprightness; a sin, misdeed.""sin" (Luke 11:4), Greek hamartia "sin. The action itself as well as its result, every departure from the way of righteousness..." (BAG 43-44). Literally, "a failing to hit the mark" (Thayer 30).

[Knight]

That's interesting.

However, how does this answer my querry?

[suzie]

different bible translations use different words. They are the same

[Knight]

I know they are the same. I was just wondering where the use of "tresspasses" comes from. It is not in any translation that I can find.

If you know which translation this is used in I'd appreciate that information. (It's not in the KJV)

[suzie]

I believe it is in the common book of prayer and some older translations such as Tynedale Bible and Geneva Bible.....I am not 100% sure of that however. I have a tynedale bible somewhere. I will look it up if I can find it.

[Knight]

I have the Geneva Bible on my PC.... It does not use this term.

I am aware that the book of common prayer uses this terminology. Just curious as to where it originated. You may be right about Tyndale.

[New Creation]

Erudite Joy, this is an excellent thread and I am grateful that you started it.
I am one of the last of the kids who had to recite the Lord's prayer every morning in public school in Canada. Kids don't know the prayer at all now. However, as a result, it has become mechanized for me and I have rarely thought about it's meaning- especially as a model prayer. Thank you for bringing this very important subject up.



....about that prayer: I was raised Catholic. My first exposure to this prayer was to memorize it and be able to recite it. Certain times, we were instructed to recite the prayer as payment for our sins. Other times, we recited the prayer as a church in the worship ceremony.

How that has changed: I began to read the bible as an adult. I now go to a non-denominational church and my pastor taught us to use this prayer as a model. When I have my prayer time, I start with "Our Father which art in heaven" and I stop there and say, "God, I know you are the only true God, our creator, and I know you are in heaven and worthy of my praise...."and I elaborate more fully and with whatever is on my heart that day about who I know God is. I think this model is laid out in a leaflet we had at church. I might be able to find it and post it. Anyway, I stop the word-for-word prayer wherever I feel led at the time I'm reciting it and elaborate however I feel.

It is a perfect model, in that it contains praise, petition, confession, commitment, prayer for protection and deliverance. It never ceases to amaze me at how this model opens a dialog between me and God and gets me thinking about what I need to be thinking about.


Hope that helps....Hugz, Singz4Him

It helps a lot Singz4Him, thank you. I'm going to look into this further as I could definitely use some help with prayer. God bless you all for your contributions to this thread! It has been very helpful!

[Rising_Suns]

I'm going to look into this further as I could definitely use some help with prayer. God bless you all for your contributions to this thread! It has been very helpful!


hello sister, :)
As everyone else here noted, it is a very powerfull prayer, and can be profoucly nourishing if you understand and believe with your soul the words of the prayer while you're saying it.

Initially, I know how difficult this is to do, especially trying to take yourself out of your busy day, so I have found it really helps to not just say the prayer once and be done with it, but after saying it, to just be still for a while and find that inner stillness in your heart with God. Meditate on Jesus's passion, and then repeat the Lord's prayer again slowly, with your new level of focus on the prayer, saying it slowly and believing in every word you say. And continue repeating the Lord's prayer as you meditate on God through the words of His prayer.

This is sort of like centering prayer; just focussing and meditating on the words of prayer to help put you into a deeper communication with our Lord. I have found this to really help me find that place of peace with the Lord during the busyness of the day.

May God's peace be forever with you NC.

[suzie]

Couldnt find my bible but here is what I did find on this....hope it helps.

Regarding the Our Father:

This is a remnant of Tyndale's translation (A. D. 1526) which has been preserved and handed down in the Episcopal Liturgies. Tyndale renders Matthew as follows: "And forgive us our trespases even as we forgive them which trespas"