Is it Futile to debate with a Fundamentalist?

[LittleOrphanAndy]

First let me say that none of what I say here is meant to cause anyone offense if you take offense at this you do so at youre choice.

So I would apreciate it if there would be no sarcasim or ill mannered feedback from this post .

I am asking fundamentalists whether it is futile to debate with a fundamentalist.

Most Fundamentalist seem rather secure in what they believe but I have observed a certain mentality among many that can be summed up like this .. Bible says it i believe .. end of story .. And that realy is the end of the story . If you probe deeper with them they tire of you very quickly and many seem to get very angry . My question is if fundamentalist are conveinced that they are right about every thing then how can they objectively debate with anyone .. ? If there is no room for questioning them. If there is no room for critical thinking .. Then what is the point of even debating? I realy hope I get some positive feedback here .

And let me say that i am speaking of a prevailing mentality and im not attacking anyone personaly ..

Andy

[LivingWordUnity]

First let me say that none of what I say here is meant to cause anyone offense if you take offense at this you do so at youre choice.

So I would apreciate it if there would be no sarcasim or ill mannered feedback from this post .

I am asking fundamentalists whether it is futile to debate with a fundamentalist.

Most Fundamentalist seem rather secure in what they believe but I have observed a certain mentality among many that can be summed up like this .. Bible says it i believe .. end of story .. And that realy is the end of the story . If you probe deeper with them they tire of you very quickly and many seem to get very angry . My question is if fundamentalist are conveinced that they are right about every thing then how can they objectively debate with anyone .. ? If there is no room for questioning them. If there is no room for critical thinking .. Then what is the point of even debating? I realy hope I get some positive feedback here .

And let me say that i am speaking of a prevailing mentality and im not attacking anyone personaly ..

AndyIt's been my experience that they generally don't like to debate. They believe in faith alone. So they don't believe that reason has any place in their faith.

Catholics, on the other hand, believe that faith and reason must go together. John Paul II described faith and reason as being like the two wings of a bird.

[desmalia]

First let me say that none of what I say here is meant to cause anyone offense if you take offense at this you do so at youre choice.

So I would apreciate it if there would be no sarcasim or ill mannered feedback from this post .

I am asking fundamentalists whether it is futile to debate with a fundamentalist.

Most Fundamentalist seem rather secure in what they believe but I have observed a certain mentality among many that can be summed up like this .. Bible says it i believe .. end of story .. And that realy is the end of the story . If you probe deeper with them they tire of you very quickly and many seem to get very angry . My question is if fundamentalist are conveinced that they are right about every thing then how can they objectively debate with anyone .. ? If there is no room for questioning them. If there is no room for critical thinking .. Then what is the point of even debating? I realy hope I get some positive feedback here .

And let me say that i am speaking of a prevailing mentality and im not attacking anyone personaly ..

Andy
I think you'll find that most, if not all of the fundies in this forum very much enjoy a thoughtful, meaningful discussion on all sorts of issues, even if an agreement is never reached. If you want to take the Bible out of the equation when discussion a doctrine, you will find we are not the type to bother engaging in such debates, as they have no actual base.

Fundamentalists as a whole don't assume that we have all the answers. But we do rest on the authority and inerrancy of Scripture.

Regarding the Debate with a Fundamentalist subforum, well we've had a lot of people wander in here in the past several months, not with a desire for genuine debate, but simply looking for any chance they can find to put us down and tell us why we're so wrong, horrible, etc. etc. It can be a little exhausting and totally futile to bother with such posts. So fewer of us bother coming here as often due to that.

[LittleOrphanAndy]

What i dont understand is whether or not you are making general statements about those who attack fundamentalists or are you implying that that is what I am doing?

[desmalia]

What i dont understand is whether or not you are making general statements about those who attack fundamentalists or are you implying that that is what I am doing?
Andy, I don't know what you are doing here, so no my comments are not directed towards you. They are simply a quick recap so you can understand a little about our fourm.

[LittleOrphanAndy]

Sometimes in order to have a genuine debate you must for the sake of argument entertain the thought of youre oponent. What I wonder is ..Can Fundamentalists be objective.

Now regarding the scriptures there are some issues not covered so you are at a loss there .

I disagree with you I think that due to human nature the more you are conveinced that you are right and in some way set apart as a result the more pride in egenders in you and it tends to produce obscene arrogance.
Now im not talking the truth from scriptures i am refering to youre (plural)Right..cheousness. for lack of a better term . I have seen it and experienced it .And been hurt from it .

[LittleOrphanAndy]

yous in plural and are particular.

[desmalia]

Sometimes in order to have a genuine debate you must for the sake of argument entertain the thought of youre oponent. What I wonder is ..Can Fundamentalists be objective.

Now regarding the scriptures there are some issues not covered so you are at a loss there .

I disagree with you I think that due to human nature the more you are conveinced that you are right and in some way set apart as a result the more pride in egenders in you and it tends to produce obscene arrogance.
Now im not talking the truth from scriptures i am refering to youre (plural)Right..cheousness. for lack of a better term . I have seen it and experienced it .And been hurt from it .
It's interesting that you state it that way, considering that you seem to have your mind quite made up about who we are and how we treat others.

I am sorry if you have been hurt. And I hope that you can find peace, healing and forgiveness for those who have wronged you.

[LittleOrphanAndy]

I am trying to have a debate with Fundamentalists on what i feel is not only a real issue but a serious problem the root of which is pride.

Thank You for clarifying what you wrote earlier . Sorry if i misunderstood but i would rather ask than accuse ..

[desmalia]

I am trying to have a debate with Fundamentalists on what i feel is not only a real issue but a serious problem the root of which is pride.

Thank You for clarifying what you wrote earlier . Sorry if i misunderstood but i would rather ask than accuse ..
I agree, it's always better to ask than to just assume. So I'm glad you asked for clarification. And thank you too for clarifying why you are here.

Perhaps it would be a more fruitful discussion if we take away the generalizations and deal one on one. Have you seen me behave in a prideful way? If so, when? It is not my desire to behave as such. But if you've seen me behaving this way, I wish to remain open to accountability, rather than to continue sinning. So let's discuss that. Perhaps then we can move forward.

[LittleOrphanAndy]

Who are you to tell me what i have made my mind up about . I am speaking of a general attitude yes . I didnt say it was all inclusive. Isnt it funny that you pick what you want to adresse and disregard the rest? Aren't we all all a bit like this at times ?

[desmalia]

Who are you to tell me what i have made my mind up about . I am speaking of a general attitude yes . I didnt say it was all inclusive. Isnt it funny that you pick what you want to adresse and disregard the rest? Aren't we all all a bit like this at times ?
I'm really not trying to put words in your mouth, Andy. I'm just trying to understand.

[LittleOrphanAndy]

I posted the last post before i read youre last post ... Youre right .. Lets deal with each other one on one .. We can argue about issues till the cows come home lol and still not agree .


To answer youre question to me you come off as being a bit arrogant and it seems like you may be making subtle suggestions at times ..

But ... We are online and i cant hear youre voice i cant see youre facial expressions i cant hear youre tones . and sometimes misunderstandings occur just because of that .

But the first thing i want you to know that im not attacking you personaly i never do that to anyone unless i percieve they are atacking me .. And i have to be very careful about that.

Andy

[LittleOrphanAndy]

I am going to assume the very best about you .And I ask you to do the same for me ..If we do that we cant go wrong ...

I am willing to listen maybe i have only seen one side of the coin so to speak on these issues ..

Are we agreed ?

Andy

[desmalia]

I am going to assume the very best about you .And I ask you to do the same for me ..If we do that we cant go wrong ...

I am willing to listen maybe i have only seen one side of the coin so to speak on these issues ..

Are we agreed ?

Andy
That sounds like a very good start. :thumbsup:

[LittleOrphanAndy]

I had a question I called a christian radio station.I was refered to a person who basicaly had a arrogant attitude and when i would not say the sinners prayer with him he was done with me .. The man hung up on me because he thought i was wasting his time . I asked sincire honest questions not realy debate but i did oppose him on a couple of issues and he didnt like that . He had a its my way or the highway attitude . And i keep getting that over and over again where fundamentalist realy have serious control issues ...many realy want to control and if you dont jump they want nothing to do with you . and no youre not all like that Des i know that ..But i dont understand .. this man cared more about his ego than he did my soul.

[desmalia]

I had a question I called a christian radio station.I was refered to a person who basicaly had a arrogant attitude and when i would not say the sinners prayer with him he was done with me .. The man hung up on me because he thought i was wasting his time . I asked sincire honest questions not realy debate but i did oppose him on a couple of issues and he didnt like that . He had a its my way or the highway attitude . And i keep getting that over and over again where fundamentalist realy have serious control issues ...many realy want to control and if you dont jump they want nothing to do with you . and no youre not all like that Des i know that ..But i dont understand .. this man cared more about his ego than he did my soul.
I'm sorry you encountered a difficult situation with the radio station, Andy. If I may, I'd like to ask some questions about that. Where you a Christian when you called? Are you a Christian now? (That is not meant as some sort of attack. It's just very hard to know this on online forums. Just an honest question, nothing more.) What was the question you called to ask? Thanks.

[BigNorsk]

May I ask what it was that you indicated to the man on the radio that would have shown your soul was in danger?

Why did you call a radio station? Was this a show or did you just call the station?

If you called up appearing to seek answers, and when the person presented what he believed, then indicating you don't agree with him is really probably an indication you aren't someone asking questions at all. But someone wanting to change his mind. It sounds like he did not believe you actually were asking questions. Simple acting like you were asking in order to then have a reason to give your beliefs.

It was probably a misunderstanding but please realize that it is extremely common for that to happen.

Take this website, many of the threads start out with what appears to be a question, but it isn't. The person has solid beliefs concerning the question, and he's just starting a thread so that he can present them. I for one have been rather put off when more than once I spend time and effort to write out a reply, one that isn't just a rattle off the top of my head but which takes some research some digging for verses and such, and then, I find out the person couldn't have cared less what I wrote, sometimes even obviously not bothering to even read it and certainly not to consider it. Why "discuss" it with them further?

I believe that person associated with the radio station probably thought you were doing the same thing, only on the phone. That would be why he would have said it was a waste of time to talk to you.

Marv

[No Swansong]

It's been my experience that they generally don't like to debate. They believe in faith alone. So they don't believe that reason has any place in their faith.

Catholics, on the other hand, believe that faith and reason must go together. John Paul II described faith and reason as being like the two wings of a bird.




Actually my experience is exactly the opposite. I find Fundamentalists to be quite logical and systematized. As a former Roman Catholic (Degree with a minor in Roman Catholic Theology and currently enrolled in a graduate degree in Roman Catholic Theology. a former Catechist and so on) I found Roman Catholic Theology to utilize reason well, but I find most Roman Catholics, especially on message boards, to be quite unreasonable.