music

[cerette]

Hello everyone!

As a conservative Lutheran I sometimes listen to contemporary Christian music, which isn't necessarely WELS or ELS. I happen to like the melody, the beat or whatever. I do not always agree with the lyrics, since they often say things like "accepting Jesus/sayng yes to Jesus" and so on...

My question is: Do you think it would be bad/wrong to play this music if I had friends over? I wouldn't want them to leave my house with the idea that they have to choose Jesus. :help:

[DaRev]

Hello everyone!

As a conservative Lutheran I sometimes listen to contemporary Christian music, which isn't necessarely WELS or ELS. I happen to like the melody, the beat or whatever. I do not always agree with the lyrics, since they often say things like "accepting Jesus/sayng yes to Jesus" and so on...

My question is: Do you think it would be bad/wrong to play this music if I had friends over? I wouldn't want them to leave my house with the idea that they have to choose Jesus. :help:

I, too, listen to CCM quite regularly. I guess it depends on who and what in particular you listen to. It can be a great way to get people to talk and ask about it. That is when you can explain what the Scriptures truly teach about the faith.

[cerette]

Do you always take the chance to explain to them what the Bible teaches? Would you see any danger or harm in not even mentioning it?
I don't know yet how I feel about it. I guess I will just turn it off if I have company!

[DaRev]

Do you always take the chance to explain to them what the Bible teaches? Would you see any danger or harm in not even mentioning it?

I don't think you need to mention it unless they ask or comment on the song(s). I guess it depends on how comfortable you are in witnessing to the faith. Some are more comfortable about that than others. :)

[Jim47]

My family is WELS, and we often watch the Gaither show on TV which is almost all praise music. We also discuss the unscriptural doctrine they teach. I don't think there is anything wrong with listening to it, nor is there anything wrong with pointing what is wrong, just do so in a kindly fassion. :)

[cerette]

I agree with both of you. Thanks for your replies.
I guess what I am thinking of is more like this: It bugs me a bit if someone would leave my house thinking they need to say yes to Jesus...just because they heard it in a song at my house!!

[Jim47]

Saying yes isn't necessarily a bad thing, but thinking we can actually take credit for coming to faith is not scriptural, and AI know thats what you mean. But this can always be used for a conversation starter. Just show them the pertenant scriptures and explain. :)

or if necessary as in some cases, Debate ;)

[GSJ1967]

Since this topic was started..I have a question:

What groups or artists do you feel are the most theologicaly sound? It seems like Casting Crowns, Third Day, Paul Baloche, etc are..any thoughts?

[DaRev]

Lost and Found

www.speedwood.com (http://www.speedwood.com)

[cerette]

Since this topic was started..I have a question:

What groups or artists do you feel are the most theologicaly sound? It seems like Casting Crowns, Third Day, Paul Baloche, etc are..any thoughts?
I don't know many groups or artists (Christian ones) but I like many contemporary songs..
I also like some WELS artists such as Michael Scroeder (I think thats his name, im not sure) and Koine.

[GSJ1967]

are there any CC artists that are Lutheran?

[cerette]

are there any CC artists that are Lutheran?
Yes. If you go to wels.net and click on Streams you can listen to comtemporary wels music.

[DaRev]

are there any CC artists that are Lutheran?

Lost and Found

www.speedwood.com (http://www.speedwood.com)

[NordicLutheran]

Hahahah am I really hearing that some confessional Lutherans are listening to CCM? Okay from a theological standpoint it's all about the "me". So of course most of you would agree with me that it should not be played during the divine service. From a musical standpoint I think it's all absolute crap. I like pop and country music and just about everything but rap and ccm. CCM takes pop music and mutilates it with horrible lyrics. I would say that by listening to CCM your IQ falls while your evangelical factor gains each time you listen to it. If I was an unbeliever and walked into a house and CCM was playing I would vomit and walk out. As a confessional Lutheran if I heard that in a house I would vomit and walk out? See the difference? The only break through that CCM had was making cheesy an actual genre. I'm 19 and the target audience that CCM is trying to aim for. Sad

[GSJ1967]

I agree most CC music is squishy, I love Jesus like a boyfriend/girlfriend. But arent there some songs you can hang your theological hat on?

Personally I'm trying to learn the hymns.

[NordicLutheran]

I agree most CC music is squishy, I love Jesus like a boyfriend/girlfriend. But arent there some songs you can hang your theological hat on?

Personally I'm trying to learn the hymns.
Amen.

[DaRev]

While I agree that a majority of CCM and so-called "Praise and Worship" music is theologically unsound, it is still a far cry from the promoting of sex, adultery, materialism, and violence of popular and even country music today. I'd rather deal with bad theology than atheology any day.

[BabyLutheran]

Hear hear, Da Rev!

There are some songs that are not all about ME.

Frequently Psalms are set to pop music. Kutless does so on a couple of their songs.

They also have a good song where they actually say "your body's the bread, your blood is the wine."

I looked them up online, I don't believe any of them is Lutheran, so it was unbelievable that they actually sing those lyrics.

[KimLCMS]

Hear hear, Da Rev!

There are some songs that are not all about ME.

Frequently Psalms are set to pop music. Kutless does so on a couple of their songs.

They also have a good song where they actually say "your body's the bread, your blood is the wine."

I looked them up online, I don't believe any of them is Lutheran, so it was unbelievable that they actually sing those lyrics.
I like that song too.

[DaRev]

I like "Communion" by Third Day.

[NordicLutheran]

I don't analyze the theology, because CCM is not permitted in the Divine Service. The music is just crap.

[cerette]

Hahahah am I really hearing that some confessional Lutherans are listening to CCM? Okay from a theological standpoint it's all about the "me". So of course most of you would agree with me that it should not be played during the divine service. From a musical standpoint I think it's all absolute crap. I like pop and country music and just about everything but rap and ccm. CCM takes pop music and mutilates it with horrible lyrics. I would say that by listening to CCM your IQ falls while your evangelical factor gains each time you listen to it. If I was an unbeliever and walked into a house and CCM was playing I would vomit and walk out. As a confessional Lutheran if I heard that in a house I would vomit and walk out? See the difference? The only break through that CCM had was making cheesy an actual genre. I'm 19 and the target audience that CCM is trying to aim for. Sad
In my opinion CCM has no place in Divine Service. I am not impressed by so called contemporary services either.
However, I may listen to music in my home while doing housework etc. In those moments I sometimes enjoy listening to CCM, even songs that are theologically wrong. (See my OP) Like DaRev said earlier, compared to all the songs about fornication and so on, I would rather listen to songs about Jesus even if not all lyrics are correct.

[BabyLutheran]

I agree that it doesn't belong in the Liturgy, but saying it's all crap is very...hmm, I can't think of the appropriate word.

Rich Mullins singing the creed to modern music, word for word. To me that's not crap.

What would you propose we listen to in our every day world, Nordic?

[NordicLutheran]

Any genre. I usually listen to just instrumental. Jazz, Classical, and a lot of oldies. Why not listen to great music instead of Oh JESUS OH JESUS YEAH YEAH I LOVE YOU LONG TIME. Because that's basically what it is. I guess if you want to try to fit into the evangelical mold you can. Bad theology. Bad music. Amen

[DaRev]

Any genre. I usually listen to just instrumental. Jazz, Classical, and a lot of oldies. Why not listen to great music instead of Oh JESUS OH JESUS YEAH YEAH I LOVE YOU LONG TIME. Because that's basically what it is. I guess if you want to try to fit into the evangelical mold you can. Bad theology. Bad music. Amen

Not all of it is like that. Some (albeit a few) are actually very good.

Have you ever listened to Lost and Found?
(Click the little speaker above my post for a sample.)

[porterross]

Hear hear, Da Rev!

There are some songs that are not all about ME.

Frequently Psalms are set to pop music. Kutless does so on a couple of their songs.

They also have a good song where they actually say "your body's the bread, your blood is the wine."

I looked them up online, I don't believe any of them is Lutheran, so it was unbelievable that they actually sing those lyrics.
I really like Kutless, Shawn McDonald, Third Day, Mercy Me, Casting Crowns, Mark Shultz, Plumb, etc. and Red (Breathe Into Me) is some good workout noise! It's pretty much all we listen to between MP3's and The Message on XM Radio, but I wouldn't want to hear anything like it during DW.


Lost and Found....uh, NO! :D

[DaRev]

I really like Kutless, Shawn McDonald, Third Day, Mercy Me, Casting Crowns, Mark Shultz, Plumb, etc. and Red (Breathe Into Me) is some good workout noise! It's pretty much all we listen to between MP3's and The Message on XM Radio, but I wouldn't want to hear anything like it during DW.

:thumbsup:

Lost and Found....uh, NO! :D

:eek: :eek: :eek: Blasphemy!!!!!!

I thought all Lutherans liked Lost and Found. You really have to experience one of their shows to "get it".

[porterross]

:eek: :eek: :eek: Blasphemy!!!!!!

I thought all Lutherans liked Lost and Found. You really have to experience one of their shows to "get it".


:sick:

[DaRev]

:sick:

You need to be enlightened.

[porterross]

You need to be enlightened.


:sick:

[DaRev]

:sick:

You need to be enlightened.

[BabyLutheran]

Any genre. I usually listen to just instrumental. Jazz, Classical, and a lot of oldies. Why not listen to great music instead of Oh JESUS OH JESUS YEAH YEAH I LOVE YOU LONG TIME. Because that's basically what it is. I guess if you want to try to fit into the evangelical mold you can. Bad theology. Bad music. Amen
I will give you some points on the Jesus, me love you long time stuff.

God is a Friend of Mine drives me crazy.

[NordicLutheran]

Not all of it is like that. Some (albeit a few) are actually very good.

Have you ever listened to Lost and Found?
(Click the little speaker above my post for a sample.)
I actually liked the song a lot...weird. Really though I think it comes down to the definition of Christian music. I identify all music as Christian that's not blatantly anti-Christian, because music is a gift from God. Why make a genre that monopolizes Christian music? In that light all music is for the Glory of God. Country, Pop, Rock, Classical, and everything. I would call the song that I just listened to Pop, not CCM.

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Keith Green ?

(some is free download)

[cerette]

Keith Green ?

(some is free download)
I actually like his music, but don't like all the lyrics. Have a CD which I listen to every now and then.

[WildStrawberry]

Lost and Found

www.speedwood.com (http://www.speedwood.com)

Darn it! Rev beat me to it. :D

PORTER! Lost and Found RULE like a big Ruling thingy. Yeah!

*G*

They're so much fun. Of course, sometimes a little goes a long way.

But, for theologically sound music, you really can't beat 'em!

Kae

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I actually like his music, but don't like all the lyrics. Have a CD which I listen to every now and then.
I never heard of anyone objecting to his lyrics (words?).

Except me. :) .. in a song or other he made a mistake that I don't remmber.

[Zecryphon]

Hello everyone!

As a conservative Lutheran I sometimes listen to contemporary Christian music, which isn't necessarely WELS or ELS. I happen to like the melody, the beat or whatever. I do not always agree with the lyrics, since they often say things like "accepting Jesus/sayng yes to Jesus" and so on...

My question is: Do you think it would be bad/wrong to play this music if I had friends over? I wouldn't want them to leave my house with the idea that they have to choose Jesus. :help:
I think you've answered your own question, Cerette. If you don't want your friends to leave your house thinking that they have to choose Jesus, then don't play music that proclaims that message. Or you could post a disclaimer next to your stereo that says something along the lines of: "The music played in this house does not necessarily represent the theological beliefs of the owner of the house. It's really just background noise."

[Radiata]

Really scary worship.

I've been meaning to make a thread on this one for a while. We sing a song called "You Said" at InterVarsity Christian Fellowship (IVCF) and I can't seen to make anything out of it. It bothers me a lot.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=1e3HksVfHRo

O yea, Rev, Lost and Found played at my church several years ago. It was the first musical concert that I ever went two. Besides my brother's piano recitals of course.

[DaRev]

.

[cerette]

I think you've answered your own question, Cerette. If you don't want your friends to leave your house thinking that they have to choose Jesus, then don't play music that proclaims that message. Or you could post a disclaimer next to your stereo that says something along the lines of: "The music played in this house does not necessarily represent the theological beliefs of the owner of the house. It's really just background noise."
That's a good idea :)

[DaRev]

"Ask and I'll give you the nations"...

Hmmm... isn't that what Satan said to Jesus in the wilderness? :scratch:

[Tofferer]

I really like Michael W.Smith "Healing Rain". Probably not the most scriptural of songs, but I rather like it.

[DaRev]

I really like Michael W.Smith "Healing Rain". Probably not the most scriptural of songs, but I rather like it.

Hey, dude, how comes the dog?

[Radiata]

"Ask and I'll give you the nations"...

Hmmm... isn't that what Satan said to Jesus in the wilderness? :scratch:
Exactly. It just seems wrong. It may mean that I ask for the nations so that I can turn them Christian, because outreach is hugely important at IVCF, but even so I just don't get it. Another said that it was an arrangement of a psalm, but I forgot which. Hmm, what to do?

[DaRev]

Exactly. It just seems wrong. It may mean that I ask for the nations so that I can turn them Christian, because outreach is hugely important at IVCF, but even so I just don't get it. Another said that it was an arrangement of a psalm, but I forgot which. Hmm, what to do?

It is from Psalm 2, but the context is of the Father telling the Son "Ask of Me, and I will surely give the nations as Thine inheritance, And the very ends of the earth as Thy possession." The song makes it sound like if we ask for the nations it will be given to us. That's not at all what the Psalm is saying.

[Radiata]

Two things. Should we be singing about God in our worship, or should we be singing to God in our worship?

And secondly, there is a song called "His Eyes" by Steven Curtis Chapman. I'm still trying to figure out worship and knowing the feedback from this song, I would be able to find out a lot. I'm amazed that there isn't a video that I can find of it. Here are the lyrics.

Sometimes His eye were gentle
And filled with laughter
And sometimes they cried
Sometimes there was a fire
Of holy anger
In Jesus' eyes
But the eyes that saw hope in the hopeless
That saw through the fault to the need
Are the same eyes that look down from heaven
Into the deepest part of you and me

His eyes are always upon us
His eyes never close in sleep
And no matter where you go
You will always be in His eyes

Sometimes His voice comes calling
Like rolling thunder
Or like driving rain
And sometimes His voice is quiet
And we start to wonder
If He knows our pain
But He who spoke peace to the water
Cares more for our heart than the waves
And the voice that once said "You're forgiven"
Still says "You're forgiven" today

Sometimes I look above me when stars are shinning
And I feel so small
How could the God of heaven and all creation
Know I'm here at all
But then in the silence He whispers
"My child, I created you too
And you're my most precious creation
I even gave my Son for you"

His eyes are always upon you
His eyes never close in sleep
And no matter where you go you will always be
You will always be in His eyes
No matter where you go
You will always be in His eyes

Sometimes His eyes were gentle
And filled with laughter

[DaRev]

Two things. Should we be singing about God in our worship, or should we be singing to God in our worship?

Yes.

Songs about God are examples of prayers of adoration, acknowledging Him and His grace, power, and love.

Remember, all of our singing in the worship service is directed to Him. It is one of our sacrificial acts of worship in response to His work done to and for us.

And secondly, there is a song called "His Eyes" by Steven Curtis Chapman. I'm still trying to figure out worship and knowing the feedback from this song, I would be able to find out a lot. I'm amazed that there isn't a video that I can find of it. Here are the lyrics.

I don't see anything in those lyrics that would be objectionable.

[Zecryphon]

Two things. Should we be singing about God in our worship, or should we be singing to God in our worship?

And secondly, there is a song called "His Eyes" by Steven Curtis Chapman. I'm still trying to figure out worship and knowing the feedback from this song, I would be able to find out a lot. I'm amazed that there isn't a video that I can find of it. Here are the lyrics.
Two things. Should we be singing about God in our worship, or should we be singing to God in our worship?


I think this question is more of a heart issue than a question that has a definitive answer. For me, it's both. We should always be singing to God, but what are we singing to God? What we're singing to God should be about God. Now that's not to say that every person in a church is in fact singing to God. There could be people there, I'm thinknig of teenagers here, that are resentful there even in church on a Sunday and are not really worshipping God by singing the lyrics on the PowerPoint presentation, but are just singing about God. Does that make sense?


And secondly, there is a song called "His Eyes" by Steven Curtis Chapman. I'm still trying to figure out worship and knowing the feedback from this song, I would be able to find out a lot. I'm amazed that there isn't a video that I can find of it. Here are the lyrics.



I'm not sure I understand the question. What is it about worship that you're still trying to figure out?

[Radiata]

Yes.

Songs about God are examples of prayers of adoration, acknowledging Him and His grace, power, and love.

Remember, all of our singing in the worship service is directed to Him. It is one of our sacrificial acts of worship in response to His work done to and for us.Right. I was asking if when talking about God, we should sing, You are... or He is...

I was at work when I said a prayer, but I sang it. I used the melody from "Fontof Every Blessing" and spoke to God in song. I don't know why it took allthis time for me to finally understand it, but Worship comes from yourself.It does not come from someone else's song that you are simply repeating. Itwas without a doubt the most effective worship that I have ever done. Evenwith my off-key pitch, and non-rhyming words, I worshiped in song from myown heart and it was good.

I don't see anything in those lyrics that would be objectionable.
The reason I ask is because it was from Steven Curtis Chapman, who has gotten some negative feedback from us before. Plus, he has a chrous that is repeated once. But that's enough of that. With your comment, I think that I have figured another few things out.
I think this question is more of a heart issue than a question that has a definitive answer. For me, it's both. We should always be singing to God, but what are we singing to God? What we're singing to God should be about God. Now that's not to say that every person in a church is in fact singing to God. There could be people there, I'm thinknig of teenagers here, that are resentful there even in church on a Sunday and are not really worshipping God by singing the lyrics on the PowerPoint presentation, but are just singing about God. Does that make sense?



I'm not sure I understand the question. What is it about worship that you're still trying to figure out?
I have a few things left to understand When I was younger, I might as well have just kept quiet during worship. Sometimes I would be worshiping, but all too often, I had already memorized the words, and let my mind wander while my mouth spoke what my head wasn't thinking. That has all changed. Now I'm trying to actually understand everything instead of just going along with it. Theology isn't something that is taught in my church. In fact, my church's facebook group description, it says: If you know "Room 16" and "The Youth Room" are interchangable...

If you've ever wondered how Pastor Paul can come up with so many diagrams...

If you've spent hours in someone else's living room or basement trying to achieve one thing - confirmation!...

If you have been going to Faith Lutheran all your life and don't know a thing about Lutheranism... Than this is the group for you.

I didn't know a thing before I came to CF. Now I'm trying to catch up on everything.

[Zecryphon]

Right. I was asking if when talking about God, we should sing, You are... or He is...

I was at work when I said a prayer, but I sang it. I used the melody from "Fontof Every Blessing" and spoke to God in song. I don't know why it took allthis time for me to finally understand it, but Worship comes from yourself.It does not come from someone else's song that you are simply repeating. Itwas without a doubt the most effective worship that I have ever done. Evenwith my off-key pitch, and non-rhyming words, I worshiped in song from myown heart and it was good.


The reason I ask is because it was from Steven Curtis Chapman, who has gotten some negative feedback from us before. Plus, he has a chrous that is repeated once. But that's enough of that. With your comment, I think that I have figured another few things out.

I have a few things left to understand When I was younger, I might as well have just kept quiet during worship. Sometimes I would be worshiping, but all too often, I had already memorized the words, and let my mind wander while my mouth spoke what my head wasn't thinking. That has all changed. Now I'm trying to actually understand everything instead of just going along with it. Theology isn't something that is taught in my church. In fact, my church's facebook group description, it says: If you know "Room 16" and "The Youth Room" are interchangable...

If you've ever wondered how Pastor Paul can come up with so many diagrams...

If you've spent hours in someone else's living room or basement trying to achieve one thing - confirmation!...

If you have been going to Faith Lutheran all your life and don't know a thing about Lutheranism... Than this is the group for you.

I didn't know a thing before I came to CF. Now I'm trying to catch up on everything.
I didn't know a thing before I came to CF. Now I'm trying to catch up on everything.I know how you feel. I became a Lutheran officially in February of last year. But I suspect I've probably been a closet-Lutheran for many years. LOL I'm still learning as much as I can and sometimes feel overwhelmed at all there is to know and feel like I'll never know it all. LOL