Barack Obama: The Next Ronald Reagan?

[SpyridonOCA]

In the upcoming presidential election, it seems inevitable that a Democrat will win the white house. Having said that, our next president should be the right Democrat. Political observers from the left and right are comparing this to the 1980 election, a crossroads in our nation's history when the American people sought a change from the malaise and hardship of the 1970s. What they got was Ronald Reagan, an inspirational political leader, able to unite Republicans and Democrats under a common cause, who helped to reinvigorate our economy and national confidence. Reagan was the last presidential candidate to win by a clear majority of the American people. Middle Americans felt that Reagan not only represented our interests, but that he was one of us. Barack Obama, if you look at how he excites people, both Republican and Democrat, toward unity and hope, it's clear that, at least symbolically, he is the next Ronald Reagan.

For those of you who are uneasy of his religious faith, please read this article:
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2008/januaryweb-only/104-32.0.html

[Xpycoctomos]

Sure.

Whatever. lol

Spyridon. You are a politiholic! I thought I was bad! ;)

[Khaleas]

Umm, no...

[rusmeister]

When the problems arise later, don't forget the Reagan defense: "I - don't - remember."

Spyridon, why don't you talk to your priest about your political passion and tell him some of the feedback you've gotten from us that you don't like. It really does seem that politics for you goes way beyond the pale of what is healthy involvement.

[SpyridonOCA]

In case you didn't notice, we are in the midst of a presidential election.

[Protoevangel]

In case you didn't notice, we are in the midst of a presidential election.

http://www.mindhacks.com/blog/files/2004/12/lionsyawning.jpg

http://www.mindhacks.com/blog/files/2004/12/orangutan_yawn.jpg


http://www.venushairhouston.com/animallovers/bunny-yawn.jpg


http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/contagious-yawn-2.jpg


http://www.nobodyasked.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/12/WindowsLiveWriter/Pandiculation_498F/yawn2%5B3%5D.jpg


IOW: Yawn

[rusmeister]

Spyridon, I think we'd take it a little more seriously if your priest knew and commented on the extent of your passion for politics. Imagine if I posted like this on education. Children across the world are being trained systematically and on a daily basis that there is no truth outside of the material world, but even I don't go around squawking about it like Chicken Little every day, as if anything I say or do could really change it, or save my soul or anyone else's.

There are far more important things out there right now than elections. Again, lay it out honestly with your priest. If he agrees that you are right, I'd still be skeptical, but at least you'd be getting spiritual guidance here.

[SpyridonOCA]

I write on political subjects for my school newspaper. I attend a very political college, and my studies include history, law, and political science. Everyone has their hobbies and interests. Try telling Chris Matthews that he's obsessive over politics.

[rusmeister]

I write on political subjects for my school newspaper. I attend a very political college, and my studies include history, law, and political science. Everyone has their hobbies and interests. Try telling Chris Matthews that he's obsessive over politics.
I'm just telling you what it looks like from my chair, and it looks unhealthy for someone trying to follow the Orthodox way, something I don't think Chris Matthews is trying to do.

[Xpycoctomos]

I agree politics can be fun and exciting, and I believe that they are important. And I admit that I can get obsessed with politics, much like a fan might get obsessed with sports or American Idol.

But this is how I curb it:
I make sure that I still hold on to other interests. Once politics curbs even my desire to follow other hobbies, I know that I need to change something.
I make sure I can and WANT to talk to my friends about things other than politics. Once I find myself nodding off during conversations I would usually find entertaining or useful becuase I'm pondering political questions, I know something needs to change.
I remember not to put my trust in princes and sons of men. This is the big one for me that both corrects me, gives me a serious reality check and also comforts me. Once I start thinking that the difference between Barak and Romney is the difference between justice or evil, I have gone astray.

I have met people who say they used to be very much into politics and they realized how futile it all was and left it. Now you can't get into a political discussion with them (not even about social issues) to save your life. They aren't vocal about it, but it's like talking to a brick wall. They offer no opinions and they have trained themselves to be (at least outwardly) apathetic. They probably vote, but they no longer care. And what I have noticed in every singl one of these people is that their life is better off for it.

Yes, we are in elections and I think it is fine and healthy to talk about politics. However, when almost everything one posts about is politics, that person needs to ask themselves if this is really serving them.

I would also suggest that political punditry on TV like O'Reilly, Matthews, etc... unless they are actually interviewing politicians themselves (and even then...) is about as interesting... and USEFUL as TV tabloid shows are. I have nothing against Matthews personally (besides my guess is that when he is talking with his friends he has a healthy balance of other things to talk about) but those shows are ALLMOST nothing but political tabloids... take out brain, insert other people's opinions and expertises. :)

Anyhow,in the end, Ronald Regan is not our Savior nor is Hillary the devil. They are/were politicians who were fallible but had/have souls and feelings and evil thoughts and good virtues just like all of us. They lead (or plan to lead) a country that has done good while in almost the same swipe commited inexcusable attrocities and the US will continue to do so until we fall. Russia is the same. So is the UK, Italy, Romania, China, Cuba, Iran, etc... It's a world full of people thinking their idea of how to fix and cope wiht (and take over) reality is better than the next.

If I think about it too long it just leads to a political anihilism so I prefer to balance that off with voting, boycotting, informing myself and healthy dose of political apathy to keep myself in check.

Just some thoughts.

[Protoevangel]

[/URL]Obama More Pro-Choice Than NARAL
by Amanda B. Carpenter (http://www.humanevents.com/)

Sen. Barack Obama (D.-Ill.) portrays himself as a thoughtful Democrat who carefully considers both sides of controversial issues, but his radical stance on abortion puts him further left on that issue than even NARAL Pro-Choice America.

In 2002, as an Illinois legislator, Obama voted against the Induced Infant Liability Act, which would have protected babies that survived late-term abortions. That same year a similar federal law, the Born Alive Infant Protection Act, was signed by President Bush. Only 15 members of the U.S. House opposed it, and it passed the Senate unanimously on a voice vote.

Both the Illinois and the federal bill sought equal treatment for babies who survived premature inducement for the purpose of abortion and wanted babies who were born prematurely and given live-saving medical attention.

When the federal bill was being debated, NARAL Pro-Choice America released a statement that said, “Consistent with our position last year, NARAL does not oppose passage of the Born Alive Infants Protection Act ... floor debate served to clarify the bill’s intent and assure us that it is not targeted at Roe v. Wade or a woman’s right to choose.”

But Obama voted against this bill in the Illinois senate and killed it in committee. Twice, the Induced Infant Liability Act came up in the Judiciary Committee on which he served. At its first reading he voted “present.” At the second he voted “no.”

The bill was then referred to the senate’s Health and Human Services Committee, which Obama chaired after the Illinois Senate went Democratic in 2003. As chairman, he never called the bill up for a vote.

Jill Stanek, a registered delivery-ward nurse who was the prime mover behind the legislation after she witnessed aborted babies’ being born alive and left to die, testified twice before Obama in support of the Induced Infant Liability Act bills. She also testified before the U.S. Congress in support of the Born Alive Infant Protection Act.

Stanek told me her testimony “did not faze” Obama.

In the second hearing, Stanek said, “I brought pictures in and presented them to the committee of very premature babies from my neonatal resuscitation book from the American Pediatric Association, trying to show them unwanted babies were being cast aside. Babies the same age were being treated if they were wanted!”

“And those pictures didn’t faze him [Obama] at all,” she said.

At the end of the hearing, according to the official records of the Illinois State senate, Obama thanked Stanek for being “very clear and forthright,” but said his concern was that Stanek had suggested “doctors really don’t care about children who are being born with a reasonable prospect of life because they are so locked into their pro-abortion views that they would watch an infant that is viable die.” He told her, “That may be your assessment, and I don’t see any evidence of that. What we are doing here is to create one more burden on a woman and I can’t support that.”

As a senator, Obama has opposed measures to criminalize those who transport minors across state lines for the purpose of obtaining an abortion.

At a townhall meeting in Ottawa, Ill., Joanne Resendiz, a teacher and mother of five, asked him: “How are you going to vote on this, keeping in mind that 10, 15 years down the line your daughters, God forbid, could be transported across state lines?”

Obama said: “The decision generally is one that a woman should make.”


Article from: [URL]http://www.humanevents.com/

[Dorothea]

Obama More Pro-Choice Than NARAL
by Amanda B. Carpenter (http://www.humanevents.com/search.php?author_name=Amanda+B.+Carpenter)

Sen. Barack Obama (D.-Ill.) portrays himself as a thoughtful Democrat who carefully considers both sides of controversial issues, but his radical stance on abortion puts him further left on that issue than even NARAL Pro-Choice America.

In 2002, as an Illinois legislator, Obama voted against the Induced Infant Liability Act, which would have protected babies that survived late-term abortions. That same year a similar federal law, the Born Alive Infant Protection Act, was signed by President Bush. Only 15 members of the U.S. House opposed it, and it passed the Senate unanimously on a voice vote.

Both the Illinois and the federal bill sought equal treatment for babies who survived premature inducement for the purpose of abortion and wanted babies who were born prematurely and given live-saving medical attention.

When the federal bill was being debated, NARAL Pro-Choice America released a statement that said, “Consistent with our position last year, NARAL does not oppose passage of the Born Alive Infants Protection Act ... floor debate served to clarify the bill’s intent and assure us that it is not targeted at Roe v. Wade or a woman’s right to choose.”

But Obama voted against this bill in the Illinois senate and killed it in committee. Twice, the Induced Infant Liability Act came up in the Judiciary Committee on which he served. At its first reading he voted “present.” At the second he voted “no.”

The bill was then referred to the senate’s Health and Human Services Committee, which Obama chaired after the Illinois Senate went Democratic in 2003. As chairman, he never called the bill up for a vote.

Jill Stanek, a registered delivery-ward nurse who was the prime mover behind the legislation after she witnessed aborted babies’ being born alive and left to die, testified twice before Obama in support of the Induced Infant Liability Act bills. She also testified before the U.S. Congress in support of the Born Alive Infant Protection Act.

Stanek told me her testimony “did not faze” Obama.

In the second hearing, Stanek said, “I brought pictures in and presented them to the committee of very premature babies from my neonatal resuscitation book from the American Pediatric Association, trying to show them unwanted babies were being cast aside. Babies the same age were being treated if they were wanted!”

“And those pictures didn’t faze him [Obama] at all,” she said.

At the end of the hearing, according to the official records of the Illinois State senate, Obama thanked Stanek for being “very clear and forthright,” but said his concern was that Stanek had suggested “doctors really don’t care about children who are being born with a reasonable prospect of life because they are so locked into their pro-abortion views that they would watch an infant that is viable die.” He told her, “That may be your assessment, and I don’t see any evidence of that. What we are doing here is to create one more burden on a woman and I can’t support that.”

As a senator, Obama has opposed measures to criminalize those who transport minors across state lines for the purpose of obtaining an abortion.

At a townhall meeting in Ottawa, Ill., Joanne Resendiz, a teacher and mother of five, asked him: “How are you going to vote on this, keeping in mind that 10, 15 years down the line your daughters, God forbid, could be transported across state lines?”

Obama said: “The decision generally is one that a woman should make.”


Article from: http://www.humanevents.com/
The red highlighted stuns and disturbs me very much. I'd heard about this, but didn't have an article to read on it. Thanks for posting this, proto. The way that reads is the baby being born is a "burden" to the woman. LORD, HAVE MERCY. That is a HORRIBLE thing to say or imply.

[Xpycoctomos]

thanks a lot for that proto. man... he's out there. Wow, I'm shocked.

[SpyridonOCA]

Roe vs. Wade is the law of the land. Whether or not it is a just law, it is unlikely that either political party would be able to have it overturned. Republicans, no matter how many times we elect them, fail to do anything about legalized abortion. There is a full spectrum of issues that a Christian should consider when voting. Life issues go beyond when a person is born. It seems that there is a latent racial hatred or perhaps just a hatred for Democrats in general, in the hysteria against Obama.

[rusmeister]

Please forgive me, but I think the most dangerous thing one can do is to encourage someone who is suffering from some kind of passion. I imagine we do it a lot, and that includes me. If you know of someone who goes loopy on a particular topic (after having attempted reasonable conversation) it is best not to say anything.

Again, please forgive me!:bow:

[SpyridonOCA]

Ronald Reagan, as Governor of California, signed into law the legalization of abortion on demand. As President, Reagan appointed Sandra Day O'Connor, a pro-choice judge, to the Supreme Court. Don't tell me then that Obama is too pro-choice. There is a fuller spectrum of life issues for a Christian to consider than abortion alone.

[Protoevangel]

Ronald Reagan, as Governor of California, signed into law the legalization of abortion on demand. As President, Reagan appointed Sandra Day O'Connor, a pro-choice judge, to the Supreme Court. Don't tell me then that Obama is too pro-choice. There is a fuller spectrum of life issues for a Christian to consider than abortion alone.
A vote for Obama is a vote to make baby murder even more prolific than it is today.

[Xpycoctomos]

Ronald Reagan, as Governor of California, signed into law the legalization of abortion on demand. As President, Reagan appointed Sandra Day O'Connor, a pro-choice judge, to the Supreme Court. Don't tell me then that Obama is too pro-choice. There is a fuller spectrum of life issues for a Christian to consider than abortion alone.

Below are some random and somewhat disjointed thoughts. Read if you wish:

Why is Regan used as the model for all presidents? It's not as if he were some great beacon to the Christian people of America. If you want to vote for Obama, go ahead, but your analogy only served to lessen Regan's legacy when you compared him to Obama (which is fine because it's not as if he is some kind of hero for mine). You basically said "Obama is for a lot of abortion rights, well Regan was pretty soft on abortion" And... so what? What does that have to do with anything?

I agree that there is more to the spectrum than just abortion. Some people believe that the abortion issue is lost on the political front and that even if it weren't it would do little to change the evil mindset of America... they believe that the abortion issue needs to be fought on the grassroots level through love and understanding, etc. And I respect that even if I do not (yet) fully agree with it. However, you can't really blame any Christian for being scared out of their wits of a man who believes that this is okay, and not only "okay" but that their rights should be furthered beyond what they already are. When I come back to this point, I myself cannot bring myself to vote for anyone who supports abortion rights. When I am reminded as to what abortion truly is I have a hard time not likening it to the German sheep who blindly followed Hitler's reasoning that eventually lead to the holocaust. When I am reminded that this truly is a holocaust in a very real and very tangeable way, but that we as a nation have become so desensitized to it, I cannot bring myself to vote for any man or woman who supports it, even though I know they are not hateful, they belief such out of ignorance (unwillful, I pray to God) and even if I think they would truly be the better leader in all other ways. I cannot support it. If I can do my best to see it from your point of view, even if I don't agree with it, can you not see it from our point of view. It's not like this is some issue that is (the grand scheme of things) meaningless like immigration or the economy. The only issue I can see that even compares in any way is the war, because that has also to do wtih willfull destruction of human lives and if one disagrees with the premise of the war in the first place, then to them this war must be as offensive to them as abortion. It is actually on those grounds that I can respect one voting for Obama for it is about life.

All of the other issues are about quality of life and that is the sickness of our society. The silly "pursuit of happiness" which our country rests on from the time of its fouding is what drives our nation to support and somehow view abortion as a "right". It's what drives us to look toward death as a solution. It's what puts the economy and immigration ahead of abortion. It's why when the war is at the top of the list, it's not becuase most of America disagrees with the premise as much as they hate how much it costs (not only in lives, but in dollars).

I don't know. I never want to tell anyone for whom they should vote. I never want to judge any individual who votes for a pro-choicer... but I do hope deep in my heart that it is for reasons that are honorable and Christian and not out of fear of what they may lose economically. Believe me, I live in the worst sstate in the Union economically speaking. At times when I think about it, it's gets a bit scary when homes around you are foreclosing left and right, when your school district is losing kids because their parents had to move out of state for work (Im low man on the totum pole so there is not much hope for my job security should numbers dwindle in my community). I don't know where my future stands with my family. Will we be working at the same place in 10 years, living in the same house, will any of these changes have been a move up or by our own choice?

Two years ago we voted for a new govenor. The pro-life candidate had very few leadership qualities. He had no plan that he could very well lay out. The very pro-choice candidate did. Frankly, I trusted the pro-choice candidate to lead much better than the pro-life guy would have. But, I could not bring myself to vote for the pro-choicer. I just couldn't. I struggled with it a lot. I could not stand to see more of my money supporting the slaughtering of babies. In my heart, I had no choice but to vote for the pro-life doofus. I wouldn't have been able to sleep at night otherwise. He lsot... and to my shame I was a bit relieved... yeah for the pursuit of happiness!

[SpyridonOCA]

A vote for Obama is a vote to make baby murder even more prolific than it is today.

I'm sorry, but your fear tactics are not going to work. Even if Obama doesn't win this election, he represents the future of politics. Deal with it.

[SpyridonOCA]

Two years ago we voted for a new govenor. The pro-life candidate had very few leadership qualities. He had no plan that he could very well lay out. The very pro-choice candidate did. Frankly, I trusted the pro-choice candidate to lead much better than the pro-life guy would have. But, I could not bring myself to vote for the pro-choicer. I just couldn't. I struggled with it a lot. I could not stand to see more of my money supporting the slaughtering of babies. In my heart, I had no choice but to vote for the pro-life doofus. I wouldn't have been able to sleep at night otherwise. He lsot... and to my shame I was a bit relieved... yeah for the pursuit of happiness!

Under the Bush administration, millions of our tax dollars have gone to Planned Parenthood. I recommend, sir, that you consider a fuller spectrum of issues than abortion alone, especially since the politicians you place in office don't even deliver on that one precious cause. I'd rather do what I can to curb abortion at a local level, then to send another pro-war, pro-rich, and altogether anti-life politician to the white house.


For many evangelicals, abortion is a key, if not the key factor in their vote. You voted against banning partial birth abortion and voted against notifying parents of minors who get out-of-state abortions. What role do you think the President should play in creating national abortion policies?
I don't know anybody who is pro-abortion. I think it's very important to start with that premise. I think people recognize what a wrenching, difficult issue it is. I do think that those who diminish the moral elements of the decision aren't expressing the full reality of it. But what I believe is that women do not make these decisions casually, and that they struggle with it fervently with their pastors, with their spouses, with their doctors.
Our goal should be to make abortion less common, that we should be discouraging unwanted pregnancies, that we should encourage adoption wherever possible. There is a range of ways that we can educate our young people about the sacredness of sex and we should not be promoting the sort of casual activities that end up resulting in so many unwanted pregnancies.
Ultimately, women are in the best position to make a decision at the end of the day about these issues. With significant constraints. For example, I think we can legitimately say — the state can legitimately say — that we are prohibiting late-term abortions as long as there's an exception for the mother's health. Those provisions that I voted against typically didn't have those exceptions, which raises profound questions where you might have a mother at great risk. Those are issues that I don't think the government can unilaterally make a decision about. I think they need to be made in consultation with doctors, they have to be prayed upon, or people have to be consulting their conscience on it. I think we have to keep that decision-making with the person themselves.
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2008/januaryweb-only/104-32.0.html


Single issue voters have helped to destroy our electoral system, our government, and our country. May God have mercy on us all.

[Protoevangel]

I'm sorry, but your fear tactics are not going to work. Even if Obama doesn't win this election, he represents the future of politics. Deal with it.
Yes, I have no doubt that politics will continue to degrade morally. Too bad you're voting to speed it up.

[Protoevangel]

Single issue voters have helped to destroy our electoral system, our government, and our country. May God have mercy on us all.
People who support infanticide help to destroy thousands of innocent lives every day. Get your priorities straight.

[SpyridonOCA]

People who support infanticide help to destroy thousands of innocent lives every day. Get your priorities straight.

How many men, women and children have been killed by this war of aggression that should have never been waged? How many pregnant mothers, how many babies, have been killed by this war? Obama's position, in being against the war from the beginning, is a pro-life position. If you can't see that, you, my friend, are too narrow minded. Again, if the Republicans cared about abortion, they would have done something about it by now. If they were pro-life, they would consider a fuller spectrum of issues than abortion alone. God, my friend, is not a Republican.

[Protoevangel]

How many men, women and children have been killed by this war of aggression that should have never been waged? How many pregnant mothers, how many babies, have been killed by this war? Obama's position, in being against the war from the beginning, is a pro-life position. If you can't see that, you, my friend, are too narrow minded. Again, if the Republicans cared about abortion, they would have done something about it by now. If they were pro-life, they would consider a fuller spectrum of issues than abortion alone. God, my friend, is not a Republican.
Narrow minded? You support the brutal murder of 4,000 innocent children every single day, and ask "How many men, women and children have been killed by this war..." 4,000 per day? No? And you call me narrow minded. :doh:

You are a fool if you think anyone could just "turn off" abortion. But it is true, not enough has been done. You would give the government to people who openly and vehemently want to push the abortion agenda because not enough has been done. No, that is exactly what the enemy wants you to do.

God, my friend, is not a Republican.
Neither am I. Stupid sound bites like that give no credence to your pro-baby-murder stance.

[SpyridonOCA]

Narrow minded? You support the brutal murder of 4,000 innocent children every single day. And you call me narrow minded.

I don't support abortion on demand, it just happens to be the law of the land. Do I believe that abortion is murder? Of course, I do. But if you aren't willing to compromise on certain issues, you will never vote in an election. That's a fact of life. Again, there is a fuller spectrum of issues for a Christian to consider than abortion alone. That should be obvious. Politicians don't perform abortions, but some wage wars of imperialist aggression that kill scores of people. If you have nothing to say about Obama than that he recognizes the law of the land, I recommend that do more research on the abortion laws of traditionally Orthodox Christian countries.

[Protoevangel]

I don't support abortion on demand, it just happens to be the law of the land. Do I believe that abortion is murder? Of course, I do. But if you aren't willing to compromise on certain issues, you will never vote in an election. That's a fact of life. Again, there is a fuller spectrum of issues for a Christian to consider than abortion alone. That should be obvious. Politicians don't perform abortions, but some wage wars of imperialist aggression that kill scores of people.
Unlike you, I don't think 4,000 innocents murdered every day is a compromise issue. But apparently the "scores" is worse then the thousands. :scratch:

Go ahead and enjoy your "spectrum of issues". Let me know how they measure up against the literal holocaust against innocent children.

[SpyridonOCA]

Again, if you have nothing to say about Obama than that he recognizes the law of the land, I recommend that do more research on the abortion laws of traditionally Orthodox Christian countries.

[Protoevangel]

Again, if you have nothing to say about Obama than that he recognizes the law of the land, I recommend that do more research on the abortion laws of traditionally Orthodox Christian countries.
See, you're trying to pull the wool...

It's not about him "recognizing the law of the land". That's utterly ridiculous, and downright deceptive of you. It's about his evil voting record to expand the existing "rights" (sic) and his outright ANTICHRISTIAN position on the murder of children..

[SpyridonOCA]

See, you're trying to pull the wool...

It's not about him "recognizing the law of the land". That's utterly ridiculous, and downright deceptive of you. It's about his evil voting record to expand the existing "rights" (sic) and his outright ANTICHRISTIAN position on the murder of children..

My friend, I hope that you are able to take a step back and realize that you are being unreasonable. How many children have been aborted under George W. Bush's watch? How many of our tax dollars have been spent on the procuring of abortions? If you have nothing to say about Obama other than his position on abortion, please move on. Your contempt for the man is already apparent.

[SpyridonOCA]

Back to the original topic, I'm not the first person to compare Obama to Reagan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaoYD7iZG9w

[rusmeister]

Spyridon, would you dare to print out a few of these threads and take them to your priest? (Like this one, the homosexuality thread and one or two others)

And would you accept your priest's guidance?

Because that is what you should do.

[Xpycoctomos]

Under the Bush administration, millions of our tax dollars have gone to Planned Parenthood. I recommend, sir, that you consider a fuller spectrum of issues than abortion alone, especially since the politicians you place in office don't even deliver on that one precious cause. I'd rather do what I can to curb abortion at a local level, then to send another pro-war, pro-rich, and altogether anti-life politician to the white house.



Single issue voters have helped to destroy our electoral system, our government, and our country. May God have mercy on us all.
And this is your problem Spyridon, you are extremely condescending. You treat yourself here in TAW as the all knowing man of politics and when people don't follow you (amazingly whimsical) political stance of the week it is automaticall WE who do not see clearly.

I was trying to put my finger on how to explain why your threads were so odd... it wasn't that they were political (others do that) nor that you held a belief I didn't hold (many times i would agree with some of t he content and, besides, there are many here who express political/social I don't agree with and the reaction is different). It is rather that you take your own opinion more seriously than you should and act as some kind of prophet to help the blind (us) see.

[Protoevangel]

Spyridon, would you dare to print out a few of these threads and take them to your priest? (Like this one, the homosexuality thread and one or two others)

And would you accept your priest's guidance?

Because that is what you should do.
Of course he wouldn't.

[Lukaris]

Spyridon, This post is not in any criticism towards you but since you must be a political science major here are some considerations to make towards Obama. He could be just another pawn in a preselected pool of candidates (Democrat & Republican) who will do nothing to help the masses (just manipulate certain ones to maintain some balance of power scheme). Note his views on abortion seem basically pro "choice" http://www.ontheissues.org/Social/Barack_Obama_Abortion.htm and now consider a conservative voice from the black community (often shut out of the mainstream by vested interests) http://www.bondinfo.org/ of the Rev Jesse Lee Peterson who sees crime & rampant abortion destroying the Black American community. Does Obama address any of these issues with any real substance? Note Rev Peterson has even clashed with the NAACP over abortion because they were mor interested in seeking "reparations" (check his site). Believ me my skepticism is the same towards McCain, Clinton, Huckabee etc.

[rusmeister]

Lukaris, I'd recommend you read what Xpy, PE and I are saying.

[Lukaris]

Lukaris, I'd recommend you read what Xpy, PE and I are saying.
Actually I try to avoid the political threads as much as possible (not criticising their presence pre se) & once in a full moon or something like that react during an all too quick perusal. Sorry for any inconvenience.

[Protoevangel]

My friend, I hope that you are able to take a step back and realize that you are being unreasonable.
According to Spyridon, apparently, not being willing to support a man who wants to EXPAND the abortion industry is unreasonable. :doh:

How many children have been aborted under George W. Bush's watch? How many of our tax dollars have been spent on the procuring of abortions?
Again, Spyridon, you are a fool if you think anyone could just "turn off" abortion. But it is true, not enough has been done. You would give the government to people who openly and vehemently want to push the abortion agenda because not enough has been done. No, that is exactly what the enemy wants you to do.

If you have nothing to say about Obama other than his position on abortion, please move on. Your contempt for the man is already apparent.
No, I will not move on, not while this man who supports infanticide is running. You want to make it about the man. I have no contempt for Obama as a man. His position on abortion, on the other hand is reprehensible. And no-one who supports abortion should be considered for public office.

[Khaleas]

Again, if you have nothing to say about Obama than that he recognizes the law of the land, I recommend that do more research on the abortion laws of traditionally Orthodox Christian countries.
That's because the church unfortunately doesn't make the law of the land but the state does... and in many EU countries it's required for abortion to be legal to be a member state.
And while Russia is a 'traditionally' Orthodox country, doesn't mean the government is Orthodox...
But having been a poli sci major and noticing that most poli sci majors don't have a clue about geography or news I wouldn't be surprised if that had flown over the cuckoos nest as well...

[SpyridonOCA]

John McCain would continue this war in Iraq, bomb Iran, continue Bush's failed economic policies, and continue to threaten Putin. Is he really that much better than Mr. Obama? Jesus wouldn't support most of what the Republican Party has done in the past eight years. Americans want a change, and they can find it in someone who represents our hopes, rather than our fears. Someone like FDR, John Kennedy, or Ronald Reagan. Anyone but another four years of Bush.

[Hoankan]

So because Jesus wouldn't support one demon, we should support another demon? A rose by any other name is still a rose.

[SpyridonOCA]

Agent Orange is pro-life!!! Fire bombing schools and homes is pro-life!!!!!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=b3VqMUiZ2-g

Again, there is a fuller spectrum of issues for an Orthodox Christian to consider than abortion alone. We are not megachurch Evangelicals.

[buzuxi02]

This thread is the entire reason a computer program should run the country. Lets have another manhattan project, come up with software to computate all pros and cons , cause and effect, and make the descisions neccesary. This will save us a ton of money in taxes; no longer paying presidents and congressmen and senators and their staffs and cronies. It will also eliminate corruption and no one can blame anyone for favoritism and partisanship.

[SpyridonOCA]

Honestly, I suspect that most of the hysteria against Obama is fear of having a black Democrat as our president. If people really cared about abortion, they'd be doing something about it at a grassroots level, rather than deferring responsibility to the president. Republicans presidents don't care about abortion. They care about winning votes and retaining power.

[Hoankan]

Nice Spyr, play the race card without any evidence to prove it. Most likely a spurious relationship.

I personally don't care if the prez is African, Chinese, or a little green Martian. I just want a competent man in office, something I'm not going to get anyways.

[SpyridonOCA]

Nice Spyr, play the race card without any evidence to prove it. Most likely a spurious relationship.

I personally don't care if the prez is African, Chinese, or a little green Martian. I just want a competent man in office, something I'm not going to get anyways.

When Republicans are more ferociously against Obama than any other presidential candidate, abortion is unlikely the sole reason. With the contempt shown by some individuals, one could have guessed that Obama was the Antichrist.

[Hoankan]

Evidence, solid substantiated evidence that it is racism. I'd guess they are more against Obama because he's most likely to come out on top of the primary.

[SpyridonOCA]

Evidence, solid substantiated evidence that it is racism. I'd guess they are more against Obama because he's most likely to come out on top of the primary.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama_presidential_campaign%2C_2008#Fabrications_concerning_Obama.27s_religious_background

[Hoankan]

Ok, so the democrats have been trying to smear him namely the Clinton campaign. How does the equate to the Republicans? Also I remember some nasty smears in 2000 (I think, memory is fuzzy and too much pain) like claiming one candidate had a child out of wedlock when it was really an adopted child. Smear is part of the political process.

You need to show that there is a far greater amount against Obama and that it is systematized in such a way that reveals their motives beyond trying to get a quick low blow. And BTW, Wiki isn't considered a reliable source as anyone can rewrite it.

[SpyridonOCA]

If you don't like Barack Obama, vote for the man who fire bombed civilian targets in Viet Nam, who wants to continue the Iraq war, and who wants to bomb Iran, and then call it "pro-life." Otherwise, consider the full range of issues which an Orthodox Christian should consider, rather than abortion alone.

[Hoankan]

Why don't you stop the scare tactics Spyr? Is this truly how you want to get people to vote like you want them to by scarring them and smearing the opponent the exact same way that the opposition does to your beloved choice? It really does look like the pot calling the kettle black.

And actually I am exercising my right to vote by not voting. None of them deserve the honor of being in the White House and having a choice between two bad apples is no choice at all.

[Khaleas]

Way to take pro-life out of context... umm... yea... snooooore...

[Lukaris]

deleted outta this thread.

[Xpycoctomos]

Wow Spyridon, it's beyond silly now. Your comments are absurd at best.

[SpyridonOCA]

Wow Spyridon, it's beyond silly now. Your comments are absurd at best.

It's absurd to think that the Republican Party is a "pro-life" party, given what we've observed in the past seven years.

[Xpycoctomos]

Spyridon, I have in this forum repeatedly, perhaps more than anyone else here, accused the Republican party or being little more than agents of pro-life in lipservice and nothing more. The very fact that so many republicans were willing to stand behind Giuliani and most republicans didn't find it odd that he was running as an elephant further revealed a lot about the party's true values... which are very few.

However, as much as I think Bush politicized and did not truly fight from the heart for abortion, he DID, to the best of his ability, put into the Supreme Court two judges that scare the hell out of liberals precisely because they have very pro-life records. That would NOT have happened under Gore. That WILL not happen under Obama, and not because he is black, as you seem to think, but rather because he is VERY pro-choice in his voting record, moreso that most pro-choice polititians. That cannot be denied. Now, you can vote for whomever you wish. I am not going to denounce you to Hell or suggest that you are less a Christian for it. Politics puts EVERY Christian voter with any kind of values in a precarious position. But don't act like politics has absolutely NO effect on the abortion issue. I mean, it does and no one on the pro-choice or pro-life side would deny this.

But don't go off the deep end blanketly suggesting that we don't like him because he's black. At best that was a futile and childish attempt to "win".... whatever it is you're trying to win. At worst that was slander against your brother. I doubt Chris Matthews would back you on this one.

Xpy

[Xpycoctomos]

It jsut hit me, with the myriad of odd unsolicited threads SPyridon has been posting about Abortion, I honestly beleive that he is feeling much more conflicted with his vote for Obama than he explicitly lets on. I know of other pro-lifers who are voting Democrat, and even in our very own TAW, but for them, this is not an issue for them. They agree that Obama and Clinton fail in respects to the abortion issue and they fight it on other frontiers. However, Spyridon feels it necessary to fight an imaginary battle trying to convince others that his way is right. Others Obamicans, etc dont' feel the need to do so. THey vote their conscience and let it go. I think Spyridon has a difficult time sleeping at night and does NOT feel settled on his choice precisely because of what we are mentioning here. So, he makes lame personal attacks blanketly on everyone here that make no sense and absurd claims about Obama and Republicans in hopes to either convince us or discredit us in our minds (as racists, uninformed/uneducated voters, of the not-as-inspired-as-SPyridon camp, etc) so he can then convince himself that Obama is the right person to vote for.

And he may be. I don't buy it, but I'm not going to tell someone else that McCain is a more CHRISTIAN or EDUCATED vote. But the fact is,the other pro-lifers voting for Obama are much more sel-assured about their vote and are fully aware of his pro-choice leanings adn the effect that will probably have on the Supreme Court and other laws.

Spyridon, if you are feeling politically inadequate, take it to Chris Matthews. The rest of us in TAW (from what I can tell), regardless of who we are voting for in November, can think for ourselves and will vote confidently without having to think that everyone else is stupid or diedumucated.

[rusmeister]

I think that if we get our spiritual lives in some kind of order, our views of other things, like politics, won't be quite so skewed. That goes for all of us.

[Hoankan]

I whole heartedly agree with you Rusmeister.

[Dorothea]

This is the first time I'm seriously thinking of reporting someone, and a fellow Orthodox, too. Could you calm the rhetoric, Spyridon.

[buzuxi02]

While i think Obama would be the best choice over whats now happening in Kosovo and the possible tensions with Russia over this. Mcain being a product of the cold war and vietnam, (along with his temper problem), does not fare well for an Orthodox on the Kosovo issue. Most likely the same goes with Hillary whose husband lead the offensive in Kosovo.

On the other hand I believe Mcain gets the nod for his anti-abortion stance, and i think Obama's economic plan is lousy and dangerous.

Well i wont lose sleep for not voting.

[rusmeister]

Yeah, really. Which candidate do you vote for anyway? The one that favors fornication, or the one that favors drunkenness?

And what effect will these people really have on anything once they're in office? Isn't it much more that the world keeps spinning round no matter who is sitting in a given office?

[SpyridonOCA]

It jsut hit me, with the myriad of odd unsolicited threads SPyridon has been posting about Abortion, I honestly beleive that he is feeling much more conflicted with his vote for Obama than he explicitly lets on. I know of other pro-lifers who are voting Democrat, and even in our very own TAW, but for them, this is not an issue for them.

Again, the Republican Party is not a pro-life party. When it comes to upholding a consistent life ethic, the Republican Party has failed miserably in the past seven years. If you want to vote for someone who will continue this war in Iraq, bomb Iran, favor the rich, and threaten Vladimir Putin, please do so.

As Orthodox Christians, we should consider the full spectrum of the Church's social teaching, rather than abortion alone. I supported Ron Paul because of his voting record, in how he has consistently defended life from the womb to the tomb. The Republican Party was too stupid to give him a chance, and Obama was my second choice.


I am a Christian, and I am a devout Christian. I believe in the redemptive death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. I believe that that faith gives me a path to be cleansed of sin and have eternal life. But most importantly, I believe in the example that Jesus set by feeding the hungry and healing the sick and always prioritizing the least of these over the powerful. I didn't 'fall out in church' as they say, but there was a very strong awakening in me of the importance of these issues in my life. I didn't want to walk alone on this journey. Accepting Jesus Christ in my life has been a powerful guide for my conduct and my values and my ideals.
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2008/januaryweb-only/104-32.0.html?start=2
Based on Obama's overall record, I can trust that his policies as president would be more consistent with the Gospel than George W. Bush. Mr. Bush is not only a national embarrassment, but an embarrassment to his own party, and a major reason for its moral bankruptcy in the eyes of the American people.

I am no pacifist, and it should be obvious to anyone that the occupation of Iraq has been a failure from the beginning. By disbanding the Iraqi police and military, we left a power vacuum that allowed the insurgents to take over, needlessly killing thousands of people. And to this day, most Iraqis are without basic services that we take for granted, such as clean water and electricity. This is the single worst foreign policy disaster since Viet Nam.

[Hoankan]

Again, the Democratic Party is not a pro-life party. When it comes to upholding a consistent life ethic, the Democratic Party has failed miserably in the past seven years. If you want to vote for someone who will continue to approve easy to get abortions, favor any faith but Christianity in our schools, favor the rich, and threaten basic Christian values such as marraige, please do so.

As Orthodox Christians, we should consider the full spectrum of the Church's social teaching, rather than the Iraq War alone.

Moral of the story, it cuts both ways. Neither party is truly a Christian party and both have their evils.

[Xpycoctomos]

I do agree with you that they are not the party of pro-life. They have mostly let us down. WHich is why I really wanted Huckabee to go somewhere. But, he is too pro-life to be Republican.

[SpyridonOCA]

Again, the Democratic Party is not a pro-life party. When it comes to upholding a consistent life ethic, the Democratic Party has failed miserably in the past seven years.

Who has had the power in the last seven years? How many millions of tax dollars have been given to Planned Parenthood under the Bush administration? How many billions of dollars have been given to war profiteers in Iraq? Republicans have promised to end abortion and ban gay marriage. When have they actually delivered on these promises?

It's time for Christians to realize that the Republican Party does not serve our interests. That's not to say that the Democratic Party has done that great of a job either. Which is why it's important, like I've said several times, to support the better candidate, rather than a particular party. In my state, Democrats almost always win elections. Our state government has been controlled by Democrats for so long that they care more about winning the next election and holding on to their power than accomplishing a solid agenda. I'm willing to support state Republicans, if they are qualified for the job, if only to have some competition and incentive for change.

[SpyridonOCA]

I do agree with you that they are not the party of pro-life. They have mostly let us down. WHich is why I really wanted Huckabee to go somewhere. But, he is too pro-life to be Republican.

I like Huckabee. I donated to his campaign.

[Hoankan]

You know. I take your words and show you how it applies to both parties and then you turn around and claim I am supporting the republicans, something I have flat out told you I do not do. I think you need to step back and look at how much political spiel you are throwing out and how you are making yourself to look like a hypocrite.

I asked you once for evidence and you gave me something that showed the Clintons were attacking Obama and that somehow proves that the Republicans are behind it. You aren't making any logical sense and that is because you don't seem to be able to tell the trees from the forest. But go ahead and keep spill out political propaganda.

May God have mercy on both of us.

[SpyridonOCA]

Ultimately, I am not going to support a presidential candidate who wants to be the enemy of the Orthodox world rather than its friend. Obama presents the opportunity for America to finally withdraw its Cold War mentality toward Eastern Europe. Expect more of the same from Clinton and McCain, as they have both referred to Putin as a KGB thug. Why shouldn't we support a presidential candidate who wants to be friends with the Orthodox rather than our sworn enemy?

[Khaleas]

A whole lot of other people have said that Putin is a KGB thug... among them a fair share of Russians... and as an FYI, Putin isn't all of Russia. Putin isn't going to be in power much longer... at least not in the same position (probably in some other form though).
Well, keep enjoying your bubble...

[rusmeister]

It looks like your God is politics, Spyridon.

You don't even understand the bluntest efforts of other posters, most of whom are definitely older and wiser, to tell you that there is something wrong with you personally, not with your politics. I think there's nothing wrong with thinking Obama the best of a bad lot. But there is definitely something wrong with you spouting the propaganda you steep yourself in everyday (which is a mix of truth, lies and irrelevancy - most importantly, that the truths are ones that pull us away from seeking God).

I have spoken of the beam in my eye to you, but the difference is that at least I'm aware of it. We are all sick in one way or another, and must give up our passions to Christ and let the Church help begin to heal us.

[Philothei]

http://greatersurbiton.wordpress.com/2008/01/07/barack-obama-and-the-greek-lobby/


Did anyone see this? nice... go Obama...(and I say that sarcastic as he is fishing for the GA vote...grrr)


Let us hope that Obama’s sponsorship of this resolution is simply a cynical ploy to win the Greek-American vote, and will not translate into a genuinely anti-Macedonian policy in the event that he becomes president. For if it does, the consequences for the peace and stability of South East Europe could be catastrophic.

[ThePosterFormerlyKnownAs]

A part of me hopes Obama gets the Dem nomination simply for the position it will put my uncle in. He's a yellow-dog Democrat but he's also quite prejudiced so it should make for some interesting conversation when we visit.

[SpyridonOCA]

A whole lot of other people have said that Putin is a KGB thug... among them a fair share of Russians... and as an FYI, Putin isn't all of Russia. Putin isn't going to be in power much longer... at least not in the same position (probably in some other form though).
Well, keep enjoying your bubble...

What you neglect to understand is that it's not about Putin. It's the threat of having an Orthodox nation which challenges America's economic and military hegemony. That's why Russia is being deemed a threat, despite Putin having done nothing to harm us. We need a president who can see through the bullcrap and chart a new course.

[SpyridonOCA]

I have spoken of the beam in my eye to you, but the difference is that at least I'm aware of it. We are all sick in one way or another, and must give up our passions to Christ and let the Church help begin to heal us.

How is my interest in politics different from a house wife who watches soap operas or a mechanic who follows sports?

[rusmeister]

How is my interest in politics different from a house wife who watches soap operas or a mechanic who follows sports?
Look at your avatar! Who is your icon? The saint who we should emulate? You yourself said, "Put not your trust in princes of men", and you have evidently forgotten that you ever said that.

[SpyridonOCA]

Look at your avatar! Who is your icon? The saint who we should emulate? You yourself said, "Put not your trust in princes of men", and you have evidently forgotten that you ever said that.

My friend, the primaries are not over. Whatever I can do to help get someone's vote, especially if it doesn't cost anything, is a good thing.

On my wall, I have an icon of Tsar Nicholas II. He is loved by the Church because he was not only a government official, but a prayerful man willing to die out of love for his people. If we can have leaders in our own country with that same commitment to sacrifice for the common good, that's a good thing.

I don't love Obama more than I'd love any other person. I do happen to love America and I hope for the future of our country. Already, there have been threats on Barack Obama's life and breaches in security on the campaign trail, and the man continues on. That can't be out of personal gain alone.

[Xpycoctomos]

Look at your avatar! Who is your icon? The saint who we should emulate? You yourself said, "Put not your trust in princes of men", and you have evidently forgotten that you ever said that.
But he looks like he's praying... so that proves something... doesn't it?

[SpyridonOCA]

But he looks like he's praying... so that proves something... doesn't it?

Of course, Obama prays. Why wouldn't he? At campaign rallies, he asks his supports, and even his hecklers, to pray for him.

Obama Gets Secret Service Due to Death Threats
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/233119/obama_gets_secret_service_due_to_death.html

[rusmeister]

Most posters that I've ever disagreed with understood my main point, whatever that was, and responded to it. But sometimes there are those that evade the main point, take some words said out-of-context, and turn what is said into something different altogether. I suppose it is often out of an inability to see other than what they want to see. Once in a while, though, it could be a troll - someone who does it on purpose.

[Xpycoctomos]

Of course, Obama prays. Why wouldn't he? At campaign rallies, he asks his supports, and even his hecklers, to pray for him.

Obama Gets Secret Service Due to Death Threats
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/233119/obama_gets_secret_service_due_to_death.html

I don't doubt the man prays. In fact, I have no right to doubt his belief in Christ. But it's more than ironic that you tell us to beware of the GOP tricks but then we are supposed to soften our hearts becuase Obama has a Church and asks people to pray for him. I'm looking for practical action (like appointing Supreme Court Justices who don't support baby killing) not a guy who seems nice and talks about prayer in public.

[nutroll]

How is my interest in politics different from a house wife who watches soap operas or a mechanic who follows sports?
How is your interest in politics different from a high school student who masturbates several times a day, or an accountant who smokes a pack of cigarettes a day? Do you not see that we are to flee from our passions? Just because you want to compare your interest in politics with two seemingly innocuous pastimes does not make it a fair comparison. And what if that house wife watches soaps (which often glorify sex, violence, covetousness, adultery, etc.) and does not do any of the work that needs to be done to care for her family. And what if that mechanic watches sports to the detriment of his relationship to his wife, and drinks enough beer while watching the game to put himself into a stupor. What people are saying to you is that it is obvious to us that your interest in politics, while not inherently evil, is severely imbalanced and unhealthy for you spiritually. You can keep ignoring their warnings, but they are not saying these things to be mean, but out of concern. reign in this passion of yours so that you do not get consumed by it. Most of us are your elders, and we know from experience how easy it is to get caught up in these things, and to make them your life rather than a life in Christ. Please talk to your priest, and please think about what people are telling you, and why so many people are telling you this. It's not because their all Republicans, I can assure you.

[Xpycoctomos]

Thanks for pointing out that last part. That should be made clear. No one is trying to tell him who he should vote for.

[SpyridonOCA]

I don't doubt the man prays. In fact, I have no right to doubt his belief in Christ. But it's more than ironic that you tell us to beware of the GOP tricks but then we are supposed to soften our hearts becuase Obama has a Church and asks people to pray for him. I'm looking for practical action (like appointing Supreme Court Justices who don't support baby killing) not a guy who seems nice and talks about prayer in public.

Ask yourself this question: Which political party, over the past seven years, has been the most destructive to the common good? Which has trampled upon the golden rule the most? In his short political career, and throughout his adult life, Obama has given his life to public service. You should give him a chance, especially since he isn't responsible for the fighting against God's Kingdom which has occurred over the past seven years. Remember, in the Lord's prayer, we humbly request that God's kingdom will come on earth as it is in heaven. Granted, Obama is an imperfect vessel, but at least give him a chance before writing the man off. It's not like most Democrats have done much better, but Obama provides us the opportunity to move forward. Together, as a country, we can move forward. Yes, we can. It's not about Obama. It's about ourselves and whether we are to build God's kingdom.

[SpyridonOCA]

How is your interest in politics different from a high school student who masturbates several times a day, or an accountant who smokes a pack of cigarettes a day? Do you not see that we are to flee from our passions? Just because you want to compare your interest in politics with two seemingly innocuous pastimes does not make it a fair comparison. And what if that house wife watches soaps (which often glorify sex, violence, covetousness, adultery, etc.) and does not do any of the work that needs to be done to care for her family. And what if that mechanic watches sports to the detriment of his relationship to his wife, and drinks enough beer while watching the game to put himself into a stupor. What people are saying to you is that it is obvious to us that your interest in politics, while not inherently evil, is severely imbalanced and unhealthy for you spiritually. You can keep ignoring their warnings, but they are not saying these things to be mean, but out of concern. reign in this passion of yours so that you do not get consumed by it. Most of us are your elders, and we know from experience how easy it is to get caught up in these things, and to make them your life rather than a life in Christ. Please talk to your priest, and please think about what people are telling you, and why so many people are telling you this. It's not because their all Republicans, I can assure you.

While I agree with much of what your saying, I wouldn't mind having it acknowledged that, most of the time, I speak the truth, or at least am sharing positions which are well researched and well thought.

[nutroll]

But people here don't think you are speaking the truth most of the time. I'm sure we would agree that you think that you are, but no amount of research will assure that you are right. I happen to think that you bring up some valid points, but the problem is that the facts require the proper interpretation, and that is where the failure lies. But all that is beside the point that rusmeister has been making for quite some time now, which is that in putting faith in politics is foolish, because it is not the path to truth, to justice, or to peace. The way to achieve those is to work on yourself. Politics gives the illusion of control kinda like a seat belt in a plane crash.

[SpyridonOCA]

But people here don't think you are speaking the truth most of the time. I'm sure we would agree that you think that you are, but no amount of research will assure that you are right. I happen to think that you bring up some valid points, but the problem is that the facts require the proper interpretation, and that is where the failure lies. But all that is beside the point that rusmeister has been making for quite some time now, which is that in putting faith in politics is foolish, because it is not the path to truth, to justice, or to peace. The way to achieve those is to work on yourself. Politics gives the illusion of control kinda like a seat belt in a plane crash.

I understand your concerns. I believe that, over the past twenty years, our politicians have disappointed us greatly. But I remember a man named Ronald Reagan who helped to reinvigorate our economy and national confidence, and helped cause the downfall of the Soviet Union.

It Was Reagan Who Tore Down That Wall
He was the prime mover behind the Soviet collapse.
By Dinesh D'Souza
http://media.yaf.org/commentary/dsouza-reagan.cfm

Why can't our next president be as great, or even better, than the Gipper? There is no sense in lacking all hope. Faith, after all, is the substance of things hoped for. Granted, we shouldn't place the same hope in our government that we'd place in God. But we can hope that Christians in politics will uphold the Golden Rule.


Barack Obama has received the endorsement of the Greek lobby, because of his pledge to defend the rights of Orthodox Christians:

Giannoulias Expands Reach of National Greeks for Obama Committee
http://www.greeknewsonline.com/modules.php?name=News&file=print&sid=8076

[Xpycoctomos]

Ask yourself this question: Which political party, over the past seven years, has been the most destructive to the common good? Which has trampled upon the golden rule the most? In his short political career, and throughout his adult life, Obama has given his life to public service. You should give him a chance, especially since he isn't responsible for the fighting against God's Kingdom which has occurred over the past seven years. Remember, in the Lord's prayer, we humbly request that God's kingdom will come on earth as it is in heaven. Granted, Obama is an imperfect vessel, but at least give him a chance before writing the man off. It's not like most Democrats have done much better, but Obama provides us the opportunity to move forward. Together, as a country, we can move forward. Yes, we can. It's not about Obama. It's about ourselves and whether we are to build God's kingdom.
How do you know I haven't given him a chance? How do you know I don't follow his campaign as well as hillary's.

It's interesting that since I deplore their records on abortion, on bolstering a welfare state that I don't personally beleive can work and don't support bringing the troops out in 1.5 years, all plans that Barak supports with a vigor that Hillary can't match, I'm not giving him a chance. But since you deplore McCain's support of this war and I am sure other economic policies, you will (rightly) claim that you were fair to him.

Look, I get what you are saying. From your POV (which for you is ALWAYS fact, by the way) the republicans have done a lot ot destroy the common good of America. Fine, vote for Barack. However, from MY POV (which you don't respect because I don't walk in lockstop with you on these issues) we cannot have a common good if our government legally supports (AND FUNDS) the destruction of life at its most basic level.

You and I disagree on how we prioritize politics. But, it is totally possible taht you and I share the same ultimate priorities of votig our conscience.

There is no perfect candidate and despite what any idealist ever says, in a democracy it will ALWAYS be the lesser of two evils for any thinking human being.

But you show NO respect for ANYONE here that doesn't agree with you... and I do NOT say that because you disagree but because you constantly belittle others who disagree with you.

Say hi to Carl Rove for us when you reach those grandiose and such honorable heights of politics.

Xpy

[SpyridonOCA]

However, from MY POV (which you don't respect because I don't walk in lockstop with you on these issues) we cannot have a common good if our government legally supports (AND FUNDS) the destruction of life at its most basic level.

My friend, Roe vs. Wade is the established law of the land. Even President Bush's judicial appointees admit this when asked. Therefore, I'd rather support a candidate who, overall, upholds life the most consistently, than one who just pays lip service to the Evangelical right.

I'd prefer Obama to Bush for the same reason I'd support Reagan over Jimmy Carter: Whose policies do the most for the greater good, for greater justice, despite their flaws?

Republicans fund abortion, are complacent with abortion "rights," and do nothing to end the root causes of abortion. Therefore, your point is moot.


But you show NO respect for ANYONE here that doesn't agree with you... and I do NOT say that because you disagree but because you constantly belittle others who disagree with you.


I'm sorry that it seems I lack respect for the members of this forum. I have never stated that for disagreeing with my politics, you are any less of an Orthodox Christian. Since I believe in Orthodox monarchy, not secular democracy, I recognize that all of our political candidates are a choice between several evils. Some are less evil than others.
Please forgive me for having hurt or offended you.

[Khaleas]

I don't doubt the man prays. In fact, I have no right to doubt his belief in Christ. But it's more than ironic that you tell us to beware of the GOP tricks but then we are supposed to soften our hearts becuase Obama has a Church and asks people to pray for him. I'm looking for practical action (like appointing Supreme Court Justices who don't support baby killing) not a guy who seems nice and talks about prayer in public.
Kinda like Hillary taking on that crazy southern accent when she spoke in a southern black church... *eye roll*

[SpyridonOCA]

Kinda like Hillary taking on that crazy southern accent when she spoke in a southern black church... *eye roll*

What is it about Obama's actions and policies that is so against God's kingdom? My point about Obama has been that, when you look at Obama's record overall, he upholds the Gospel the most consistently out of the presidential candidates. What has President Bush done for the Golden Rule over the past seven years?

Are you better off, is the world better off, is America better off, are Iraqis better off, are the unborn better off, are we better off than we were seven years ago? McCain is going to be trounced worse than Jimmy Carter!

[rusmeister]

Unsubscribing.

[SpyridonOCA]

Unsubscribing.