Purgatory

[colinlindsay]

If there's no purgatory how and when do we get cleansed of our sins?

Are there any of us who have reached the perfection of God before we die?

Indeed many of us will have besetting sins that have never been conquered.

[Philothei]

although theosis is the Christian's goal to achieve not but a few attain it.. and those are the saints who share in the presence of God... Through God's grace we are given mercy and we are forgiven so that we can attain Heaven. Purgatory cannot exist since it is not mentioned in the Bible... it is not biblical and it is not in the tradition of the Apostolic Church. The Apostles talked about Heaven and Hell.

Also it is mentioned in the parable of Lazarus and the rich man... There is either eternal damnation or Heaven.
As Christians we are to "fight a good fight" and come out of it victorious... We are like athlets who have to finish the game... We have to be in the game in the first place... when we take that leap then we have to strive continiously to outdo ourselves each time... Sometimes we slag sometimes we go ahead.... as long as we keep on fighting we will win the race... that is how the Apostle describes Christian life... and ....we have to be in THIS life to do it... because it will be too late for the next....

Purgatory as a "concept" excuses people from attaining the Christian race.....it tells them that they still have time to run that race and win... and that is not true....
You cannot 'pay off' your debts to God... as God does not accept paid debts...and He does not punish.... only accepts souls who had fought the good fight and won the race... and as they lived their lives in communion with Him while they were alive they will continue in this communion when they pass into the next.

Philothei

[Rowan]

I think there is confusion, too.

The Orthodox Church does not believe in the Roman Catholic doctrine of Purgatory (with indulgences and all that), but has not deemed the concept of after-death purgation as herectical.

Orthodoxy prays for departed souls.

I think we're treading on God's territory after that;)

[Xpycoctomos]

If there's no purgatory how and when do we get cleansed of our sins?

Are there any of us who have reached the perfection of God before we die?

Indeed many of us will have besetting sins that have never been conquered.
I think it is certain aspects of the RC version of Purgatory which many Orthodox object to. I don't think the concept of a washroom for the soul is opposed to Orthodoxy. In fact, I would personally opine that purposely believing that such a concept does NOT exist after death is at best awkward within an Orthodox mindset.

I am among the few balck sheep here in TAW that does not find that concept of Purgatory that offensive and at the very least less offensive that the idea that after death we somehow are *snap!* in heaven as I was taught as a Lutheran.