Sierra Pacific Synod Assembly

[JVAC]

I just got back from a church council meeting tonight and found out what transpired at our Synod Assembly. Let me tell you, I am far from pleased.

Apparently the Synod took it upon itself, or should I say a small congregation in Berkley, to approve of same sex marriages as well as bisexuals and trans-genders. Not only that but they welcomed back to the Synod churches that were banned because of choosing a practicing homosexual to lead the congregation (not a rostered or ordained pastor). Not only that, but the Bishop has remained silent on things.

So, what is a Lutheran to do? These resolutions, five in total, have been narrowly passed by a small liberal congregations efforts. I feel less and less confident in this system of Churchwide governance.

-James


(a link to the synod: http://www.spselca.org/ )

[Rechtgläubig]

Well you could always join the few, the proud...


I am just kidding... I am sorry to hear about this JVAC. My heart and prayers go out to you and your synod. :prayer:

[Music4Hym777]

I have a question! Is this a synod wide thing or is this a "lets put it before the board" thing. Is SPSA or ELCA is allowing (confused since I know you are an ELCAer) all of that? If its ELCA then I am definately switching to LCMS!!!

[JVAC]

This is a Sierra Pacific Synod thing. Other synods have met, but I don't know what they have done, I know this was an intensive liberal lobby from the San Francisco area though.

*sigh*

-James

[Lexluther]

I just got back from a church council meeting tonight and found out what transpired at our Synod Assembly. Let me tell you, I am far from pleased.

Apparently the Synod took it upon itself, or should I say a small congregation in Berkley, to approve of same sex marriages as well as bisexuals and trans-genders. Not only that but they welcomed back to the Synod churches that were banned because of choosing a practicing homosexual to lead the congregation (not a rostered or ordained pastor). Not only that, but the Bishop has remained silent on things.

So, what is a Lutheran to do? These resolutions, five in total, have been narrowly passed by a small liberal congregations efforts. I feel less and less confident in this system of Churchwide governance.

-James


(a link to the synod: http://www.spselca.org/ )
Yeah, I heard about that. I think I would have passed the resolutions as well. I know that my pastors are major supporters of this, and I am divided. I do not approve of homosexual activities, but I also do not feel it is my place to exclude anyone from a place in the community of God. There is too much gray area, and I think a policy of discrimination would hurt the church more than it would help it.

But the system by which these kinds of decisions are made needs serious work. Obviously, this is catching a lot of congregations by surprise, and that is not good. Our synod is growing at the same time that many churches have been entering crises- this is a time when any actions of the church need to be uniform and strong, not divided and dividing.

[Suzannah]

So, what is a Lutheran to do? These resolutions, five in total, have been narrowly passed by a small liberal congregations efforts. I feel less and less confident in this system of Churchwide governance.

-James


(a link to the synod: http://www.spselca.org/ )
I dunno...But I live in the "Sierra"....would you pm me please???? I'm totally Lutheran friendly!
:)

[JVAC]

I see your point, and I have been talking with a couple pastors about it, however, I don't think the Church should go against Church tradition that isn't contradicted by the Holy Scriptures, as is the case with homosexuality (Not to mention the resolutions went as far as to accept, Bi-sexuals and trans-genders, that is people who change gender).

This does make me think real hard, I have always been thinking, where would I go next if this doesn't turn out right... LCMS, WELS, RCC or EO?? I just am having a real hard time with this, and I am very disallusioned with the church governance, and the Bishops really aren't doing anything to help my confidence with their actions.

-James

[Rechtgläubig]

I dunno...But I live in the "Sierra"....would you pm me please???? I'm totally Lutheran friendly!
:)
I'll vouch for her. :D

[Suzannah]

I'll vouch for her. :D

:hug: You're too good to me! My concern is my mum! She's "Missouri Synod"...she isn't going to take this "sitting down"....she's pretty "old world", being Lutheran AND Irish is a tough combination....^_^

It was hard enough when I converted...now this! ^_^

[Rechtgläubig]

:hug: You're too good to me! My concern is my mum! She's "Missouri Synod"...she isn't going to take this "sitting down"....she's pretty "old world", being Lutheran AND Irish is a tough combination....^_^

It was hard enough when I converted...now this! ^_^Shucks, Suzannah, you are so sweet :D . Oh my, Lutheran... AND Irish??? whew! Now there is a firecracker! lol! I have a hard enough time being part Irish...


^_^

[JVAC]

Shucks, Suzannah, you are so sweet :D . Oh my, Lutheran... AND Irish??? whew! Now there is a firecracker! lol! I have a hard enough time being part Irish...
You and me both, I think Lotar is part irish too. There are quite a few of us Lutheran Irish people, would kind of tend to make you think we were really heavy drinkers.... (even though I have it on good authority Niel doesn't ;) )

-James

[Rechtgläubig]

Lutheran Irish people, would kind of tend to make you think we were really heavy drinkers

Although I LOVE Guinness, I am anything but a heavy drinker. LOL! Why else would I get the nick-name, "three beer Joe". Ahhh yes, three beer Joe, he drinks one, he spills one, he gives one away...

^_^

[Suzannah]

i LOVE Lutherans...they rescued my young mother from the Church of Ireland!!! ;)

I have her to thank for my straight Bible courses as a child, and also my basic faith....You guys would love my mum....she's one of those who says things like this:

"If it was good enough for King James, I'd do so better then to go with the German translation!!!"

And my personal favourite:

"Jesus is not to be confined by ye, gel (girl...me!)....Do ye know not that He's a bit of a Rebel?"


And things of that sort! :D

[Rechtgläubig]

Not only that, but the Bishop has remained silent on things.

JVAC, which Bishop is this? A Sierra Pacific Bishop or ELCA Bishop? Other?

(Sorry I don't know how your church is set up :confused: )

[Pacigoth13]

Well, those of you who have read my posts probably are not surprised, but I think the ELCA should support gay people and gay clergy. I'm not sure why people are so homophobic on the issue. This does not mean that I personally agree with everything homosexuals do, but in general, we should love and accept them.

[JMRE5150]

Its a specific synod thing...


The SouthEastern Pennsyvania Synod (SEPA) is very much against same sex marriages, etc.
We have already voiced our disdain towards the ELCA's 2005 decision towards accepting such practices.

Its a shame that some synods have taken it upon themselves to do this.

I don't know whether we (here at CF) have talked about it much, but I honestly can 'smell' change (yet again) in the air, and can easily see the ELCA splitting again, between those that allow homosexual unions, etc and those that don't.

Most folks think that if this passes, many will head over to LCMS or WELS, but I do see it differently. The ELCA may yet again split to offer another organized Lutheran Church. I wouldn't be surprised. Many folks in Seminary (ELCA) are VERY divided over this, and tensions between both sides is rising to a fevered, riotous pitch.

I am personally against such preactices. If the ELCA split, I'd have to seriously consider where I shall rest my head. This may sound a bit extreme, but we have split before ;)

It may not be a choice between the major 3 (WELS, LCMS, ELCA) but maybe 4 major Lutheran Churches in America. We'll have to wait and see. But its an interesting thought, huh?

Robb

EDIT**** If you could sit in on some convo's and meetings that I have, you'd think the ELCA was already on the verge of splitting over this. Its not as much of a fairtale as one may think.

[ChiRho]

Well, those of you who have read my posts probably are not surprised, but I think the ELCA should support gay people and gay clergy. I'm not sure why people are so homophobic on the issue. This does not mean that I personally agree with everything homosexuals do, but in general, we should love and accept them.

Play the homophobic card elsewhere...It has everything to do with adhering to what Scripture plainly states regarding Pastors.

Here is a previous post of mine that sums up my feeling about homosexuality:

While even the sin of unrepentance is forgivable by grace through faith according to Christ, a situation is hard to imagine where faith exist but repentance doesnt. As we should always remember the greatest attribute of God is mercy, (and we should always err to the side of grace!) advocating homosexuality is not only unwise, but unScriptural, and the work of Satan. When one cheapens the Law, one perverts the truth of the Gospel. We must not encourage the attempted practice, of weakening the reality of the horrible misery, despairing hopelessness, and eternal death that is found in the Law. This is nothing short of a futile attempt at Pietism. Our carnal selves want to make the Law seemingly easier to "attain." Justification, or Righteousness, is not "attainable" by man, but is the Achievement of Christ that is imputed to the undeserving sinner.

Certainly, all are completely sinful and lost, outside of Christ. There is none who seek God, but it is He that rescues and saves us, poor, sinful beings. An homosexual is no more sinful than any other. All, even heterosexuals, are in desperate need for a Savior. But to advocate unrepentance for any sin, to anyone, is encouraging the practice of inward (self) justification. Our confidence shifts from Christ to ourselves, and faith erodes to nothing. So while it is true that unrepentance does not damn one to hell, unrepentance quickly smothers faith and leads to unbelief. For it is unbelief that merits to us Hell and the Devil!

When we encounter those in need of the Law, we must ALWAYS follow with the proclamation of the forgiveness of Christ that is found in the Gospel.

Sometimes Law, Always Gospel!!

Pax Christi,

ChiRho

[ChiRho]

Its a specific synod thing...


The SouthEastern Pennsyvania Synod (SEPA) is very much against same sex marriages, etc.
We have already voiced our disdain towards the ELCA's 2005 decision towards accepting such practices.

Its a shame that some synods have taken it upon themselves to do this.

I don't know whether we (here at CF) have talked about it much, but I honestly can 'smell' change (yet again) in the air, and can easily see the ELCA splitting again, between those that allow homosexual unions, etc and those that don't.

Most folks think that if this passes, many will head over to LCMS or WELS, but I do see it differently. The ELCA may yet again split to offer another organized Lutheran Church. I wouldn't be surprised. Many folks in Seminary (ELCA) are VERY divided over this, and tensions between both sides is rising to a fevered, riotous pitch.

I am personally against such preactices. If the ELCA split, I'd have to seriously consider where I shall rest my head. This may sound a bit extreme, but we have split before ;)

It may not be a choice between the major 3 (WELS, LCMS, ELCA) but maybe 4 major Lutheran Churches in America. We'll have to wait and see. But its an interesting thought, huh?

Robb

EDIT**** If you could sit in on some convo's and meetings that I have, you'd think the ELCA was already on the verge of splitting over this. Its not as much of a fairtale as one may think.

Funny...I am sensing schism tremors, in a not so distant future, whithin the LCMS! Different reasons though.

Pax Christi,

ChiRho

[Pacigoth13]

Well... either way... I wouldn't "split" over the issue...

[Pacigoth13]

REMOVED ORGINAL POST!!!!

/MODHAT ON


Unacceptable link was posted here...contrary to most Christian beliefs, and questionable as to the motive behind posting it.

"Nuff said"

If anyone has a beef with me removing it, PM me personally, but keep in mind that "harrassing" a mod over a decision is borderline harrasment to mods, which is also unacceptable.

I passed this post through the mod rooms, and it was deemed inappropriate for this particular forum. If you have a gaychristian post or question you'd like to ask, this is not the place for it. We do offer other avenues for this kind of debate.

Sorry if I've offended anyone..your Brother tried and true in Christ,
Robb

/MOD HATOFF

[Rechtgläubig]

To hear JMRE and ChiRho talking about possible splits reminds me of what my friend told me about one of the MLC professors who always used to say that the average life expectancy of a synod is about 100 years or so - not very long...

:(

[ChiRho]

Thanks, Robb.

Pax Christi,

ChiRho

[Flipper]

You and me both, I think Lotar is part irish too. There are quite a few of us Lutheran Irish people, would kind of tend to make you think we were really heavy drinkers.... (even though I have it on good authority Niel doesn't ;) )

-James
I have a nice volitile combination: German, Irish and a little bit of Mexican. You don't want to Pi$$ me off!! ;)

About the OP, where's Kim (Phoebe)? I'm sure she would have some things to say about this. As far as how I feel about the subject - it is pretty blatant in the Bible that homosexual behavior is wrong. However, being a sin, it is no different than any other sins. The LCMS church would like to exclude gays and lesbians from congregation membership (or at least some individual churches do) and I disagree with that. We all have our personal demons and things that we keep doing wrong even though we know better. That's why God's Grace is so awesome and mind boggling. HOWEVER, clergy should be held to a higher standard than we are, because they are examples to follow. I don't think gays and lesbians should be allowed to become pastors, because of that. This development in that synod does trouble me.

[JVAC]

Well... either way... I wouldn't "split" over the issue...

I agree this isn't worth making a new denomination, however, I do think if it passes, I am going to either go back to the RCC or try out EO LCMS or WELS.

We shouldn't be making new denominations, but I think it is sad when a church decides to think about society before they think about Tradition.

-James

[ByzantineDixie]

While even the sin of unrepentance is forgivable by grace through faith according to Christ, a situation is hard to imagine where faith exist but repentance doesnt. As we should always remember the greatest attribute of God is mercy, (and we should always err to the side of grace!) advocating homosexuality is not only unwise, but unScriptural, and the work of Satan. When one cheapens the Law, one perverts the truth of the Gospel. We must not encourage the attempted practice, of weakening the reality of the horrible misery, despairing hopelessness, and eternal death that is found in the Law. This is nothing short of a futile attempt at Pietism. Our carnal selves want to make the Law seemingly easier to "attain." Justification, or Righteousness, is not "attainable" by man, but is the Achievement of Christ that is imputed to the undeserving sinner.

Certainly, all are completely sinful and lost, outside of Christ. There is none who seek God, but it is He that rescues and saves us, poor, sinful beings. An homosexual is no more sinful than any other. All, even heterosexuals, are in desperate need for a Savior. But to advocate unrepentance for any sin, to anyone, is encouraging the practice of inward (self) justification. Our confidence shifts from Christ to ourselves, and faith erodes to nothing. So while it is true that unrepentance does not damn one to hell, unrepentance quickly smothers faith and leads to unbelief. For it is unbelief that merits to us Hell and the Devil!

When we encounter those in need of the Law, we must ALWAYS follow with the proclamation of the forgiveness of Christ that is found in the Gospel.

Sometimes Law, Always Gospel!!

Pax Christi,

ChiRho


Wow, ChiRho...this is really quite excellent. (OK guys...start looking for that cloud in the East...I have been agreeing with ChiRho WAY TOO MUCH lately! ;) ) The issue is strictly one of unrepentance and how that can quickly lead to unbelief.

It is the unrepentent homosexual that we can not condone. Homosexuality is a grievous sin that is highly offensive to our holy and perfect God--as are all other sins.

But...how many of you have sins that you have struggled with all your life. I know I have one in particular. I also know God has delivered me from a few others. What if that one sin that I have struggled with since the day I drew breath was homosexuality? What if I still trip and stumble with it on occasion? To me, that is the real challenge for us as Christians with the issue--some tend to view it as a "special" sin with "special" rules.

Peace

Rose

[nyj]

I know this was an intensive liberal lobby from the San Francisco area though.
Gee, that's a shocker. :rolleyes: :sigh:

Sorry to hear about this JVAC, I really am.

[JMRE5150]

I agree this isn't worth making a new denomination, however, I do think if it passes, I am going to either go back to the RCC
-James

Chi...for once in my life here at CF, I'll let you handle this...

James James James....


j/k mate, but expect Chi to throw Lutheran teachings on you like a madman ;)

Robb

(PS, be nice folks...dont make me mod response to our brother James because of banter) :)

[Lotar]

I don't think I would be able to be a member of a denomination that was even considering the things ELCA is.

BTW, there has already been a split in the ELCA, I forget the name of the group though. Basically they are ELCA ten years ago, everything is the same except for the consideration of homosexuality. I do believe if something such as that is passed it would be the churches' responsibilities to leave and either form their own, or join LCMS, WELS, or ELS.

[Suzannah]

Hi there. I don't want to be perceived as "debating" or doing anything other than fellowship here. Truly it is not my heart to do anything else but to say this: I am truly grieved to see this. Only because I have studied Luther and his teaching and I believe that this this coming "split" (or what is perceived to be a coming split) is not in the spirit of what Luther had in mind. The Lutherans, because of my mother, have always been very dear to me. I was in fact baptised in the Lutheran church as an infant. I am very sad to see all the argument in your church. Lutheranism, as a movement, and as a philosophy, is so very Christian at bottom, and it is very disheartening to an outsider to see it being reduced from its former glory. Luther, as a person, represents to me, what the human spirit is capable of in glorious heights, what human form is not, in earthly being. I'm so very sorry to hear about all this.

[Lotar]

I don't think it would be what Luther had in mind, he didn't want the first split, and worked his whole life trying to prevent it. But, an adoption of such doctrine is not acceptable, many in LCMS and WELS no longer even consider ELCA to be Lutheran.

Another note, though there are problems like this, we aren't fragmentory by nature, as some like to claim. A century ago Lutherans in the US were spread across 18 demoninations, now something like 98% belong to one of 4.

[Suzannah]

I don't think it would be what Luther had in mind, he didn't want the first split, and worked his whole life trying to prevent it. But, an adoption of such doctrine is not acceptable, many in LCMS and WELS no longer even consider ELCA to be Lutheran.

Another note, though there are problems like this, we aren't fragmentory by nature, as some like to claim. A century ago Lutherans in the US were spread across 18 demoninations, now something like 98% belong to one of 4.


Hi !!! i recall reading about this....thank you so much for clarifying what I read. I am sure you are right and I do think that although this threat might be "imminent" , I have great hope in the "people" of your church!
:clap:

[Lotar]

What is funny is that I read this Orthodox site that used us as an example of how they are not fractured in the US, as Catholics often claim. Sort of the same problems with ethnic churches. ELCA is Scandinavian, LCMS and WELS are German, and ELS is Danish. Plus there are the small Slovak, Latvian, Polish, ect. So we understand Orthodox ethnic churches.

LCMS used to be called "The German Evangelical Lutheran Synod of Missouri, Ohio, and Other States." :D

One of the common ELCA insults towards us is that we are "too German." :D

[Rechtgläubig]

One of the common ELCA insults towards us is that we are "too German." Blödsinn... I mean nonsense. :P

[Suzannah]

Ich spreche sehr guet Deutsch ! :D

[Pacigoth13]

Na, I'm not offended that the mod removed my post, that's ok. :-)

Though it is a bit interesting seeing as though
1. It was relevant, seeing as though we were having a discussion on the Lutheran church and the possible condoning of homosexuality by the ELCA (for example). If you go to www.elca.org (http://www.elca.org) (now this link you can't remove) you will find links to human sexuality, the argument over gay Christianity, and pros and cons on both sides of the debate... and...
2. The site I linked to agreed with the creedal statements and said nothing that would be seen as contradictory to them (the usual standard for 'okayness' at Christianforums) and they took the motion to discuss salvation as being by trusting in Jesus alone (they even offered an invitation for homosexuals to receive Jesus as Lord and Saviour... isn't that what we should offer them?)

My conclusion...

There are a lot of homophobes around here...
Oh well, may the peace of the Lord be with you all anyways. :-)

[ChiRho]

Na, I'm not offended that the mod removed my post, that's ok. :-)

Though it is a bit interesting seeing as though
1. It was relevant, seeing as though we were having a discussion on the Lutheran church and the possible condoning of homosexuality by the ELCA (for example). If you go to www.elca.org (http://www.elca.org/) (now this link you can't remove) you will find links to human sexuality, the argument over gay Christianity, and pros and cons on both sides of the debate... and...
2. The site I linked to agreed with the creedal statements and said nothing that would be seen as contradictory to them (the usual standard for 'okayness' at Christianforums) and they took the motion to discuss salvation as being by trusting in Jesus alone (they even offered an invitation for homosexuals to receive Jesus as Lord and Saviour... isn't that what we should offer them?)

My conclusion...

There are a lot of homophobes around here...
Oh well, may the peace of the Lord be with you all anyways. :-)

Very appropriate user title....I think that says it all!

Pax Christi,

The Intolerant Homophobic Maniac Jerk

[ChiRho]

I agree this isn't worth making a new denomination, however, I do think if it passes, I am going to either go back to the RCC or try out EO LCMS or WELS.

We shouldn't be making new denominations, but I think it is sad when a church decides to think about society before they think about Tradition.

-James

You really want to pull a Melanchthon?

Naw...you dont wanna do that!

Pax Christi,

ChiRho

[ChiRho]

Wow, ChiRho...this is really quite excellent. (OK guys...start looking for that cloud in the East...I have been agreeing with ChiRho WAY TOO MUCH lately! ;) ) The issue is strictly one of unrepentance and how that can quickly lead to unbelief.

It is the unrepentent homosexual that we can not condone. Homosexuality is a grievous sin that is highly offensive to our holy and perfect God--as are all other sins.

But...how many of you have sins that you have struggled with all your life. I know I have one in particular. I also know God has delivered me from a few others. What if that one sin that I have struggled with since the day I drew breath was homosexuality? What if I still trip and stumble with it on occasion? To me, that is the real challenge for us as Christians with the issue--some tend to view it as a "special" sin with "special" rules.

Peace

Rose

Thanks Rose.

Pax Christi,

ChiRHo

[Rechtgläubig]

My conclusion...

There are a lot of homophobes around here...
Oh well, may the peace of the Lord be with you all anyways. :-)Pacigoth13, you totally miss the point that people are trying to make. Constant and unrepentant sin kills faith. It isn't that we hate this person or that, or that we think that one sin is worse then another, it is that a sinful lifestyle, whether it be alcoholism, abusiveness, compulsive gambling, compulsive lying, pornography... is not repentance. You can't love both God and love sin. Sinning is something that we can't help but do, that is true, we are simultaneously sinners and saints, but it tears me up inside thinking about the wrong I do, I don't flaunt it or wish to embrace it.

[ByzantineDixie]

Sinning is something that we can't help but do, that is true, we are simultaneously sinners and saints, but it tears me up inside thinking about the wrong I do, I don't flaunt it or wish to embrace it.

Absolutely perfect assessment of the bottom-line.-----R

[Pacigoth13]

Yes, I understand your point(s) but we need to distinguish between what people do and who people are...

"It is one thing to repent of what you do, it is another to repent of who you are" - Tony Campola

If you are going to tell me that there are some individual acts of homosexuality that are sinful actions and lifestyles to get into, then okay, I can accept that. There are some homosexual acts that are wrong, and when I say that it's okay to be gay, I'm not saying those acts are okay.

But, if you are trying to tell me that a person who is gay, who is probably a Christian who has been praying and praying and trying not to be and struggling for years--but no, they still like the same sex, they just happen to be gay and their gayness is very essential to them... if you are going to try to tell me that that person is "sinning continuously"... now that I can't believe.

Hope this distinction clarifies my view...

PS, Regarding 'hereticboy', we are ALL heretics in some way or the other, none of our theologies are 100% Christlike.

[ChiRho]

Yes, I understand your point(s) but we need to distinguish between what people do and who people are...

"It is one thing to repent of what you do, it is another to repent of who you are" - Tony Campola

If you are going to tell me that there are some individual acts of homosexuality that are sinful actions and lifestyles to get into, then okay, I can accept that. There are some homosexual acts that are wrong, and when I say that it's okay to be gay, I'm not saying those acts are okay.

But, if you are trying to tell me that a person who is gay, who is probably a Christian who has been praying and praying and trying not to be and struggling for years--but no, they still like the same sex, they just happen to be gay and their gayness is very essential to them... if you are going to try to tell me that that person is "sinning continuously"... now that I can't believe.

Hope this distinction clarifies my view...

PS, Regarding 'hereticboy', we are ALL heretics in some way or the other, none of our theologies are 100% Christlike.

The Book of Concord contains NO heresy.

Pax Christi,

ChiRho

[Pacigoth13]

Thanks, I'm glad to know that God dropped the Book of Concord down from heaven for us with a parachute and all... Hold on while I put it right next to the Bible on my shelf.

[ChiRho]

Yes, I understand your point(s) but we need to distinguish between what people do and who people are...

"It is one thing to repent of what you do, it is another to repent of who you are" - Tony Campola

If you are going to tell me that there are some individual acts of homosexuality that are sinful actions and lifestyles to get into, then okay, I can accept that. There are some homosexual acts that are wrong, and when I say that it's okay to be gay, I'm not saying those acts are okay.

But, if you are trying to tell me that a person who is gay, who is probably a Christian who has been praying and praying and trying not to be and struggling for years--but no, they still like the same sex, they just happen to be gay and their gayness is very essential to them... if you are going to try to tell me that that person is "sinning continuously"... now that I can't believe.

Hope this distinction clarifies my view...

PS, Regarding 'hereticboy', we are ALL heretics in some way or the other, none of our theologies are 100% Christlike.


Q. What is the Missouri Synod's response to homosexuality?

A. The Missouri Synod believes that the Bible teaches that homosexual behavior is contrary to God's Word and will, and seeks to minister to those who are struggling with homosexual inclinations. In 1992, the LCMS adopted Res. 3-12A "To Develop A Plan for Ministry to Homosexuals and Their Families." This resolution reads as follows:

WHEREAS, Many voices in our society as well as in various church bodies are expressing the view today that homophile behavior is an acceptable alternative lifestyle; and

WHEREAS, The Word of God clearly condemns homophile behavior in Lev. 18:22, Rom. 1:26-27, and 1 Cor. 6:9; and

WHEREAS, The Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod in convention in 1973 stated: "That the Synod recognize homophile behavior as intrinsically sinful"; and

WHEREAS, The Commission on Theology and Church Relations document on Human Sexuality, A Theological Perspective, states, "Whatever the causes of such a condition may be, . . . homosexual orientation is profoundly 'unnatural' without implying that such a person's sexual orientation is a matter of conscious, deliberate choice. However, this fact cannot be used by the homosexual as an excuse to justify homosexual behavior. As a sinful human being, the homosexual is accountable to God for homosexual thoughts, words and deeds." (Human Sexuality, A Theological Perspective, p. 35); and

WHEREAS, The redeeming love of Christ, which rescues humanity from sin, death, and the power of Satan, is offered to all through repentance and faith in Christ, regardless of the nature of their sinfulness; and

WHEREAS, The need exists to make available a carefully developed Law/Gospel ministry plan to congregations and other institutions in order to minister to those who are troubled by their homosexuality; and

WHEREAS, It is necessary for the church to expose and resist the sexual idolatry of our society; therefore be it

Resolved, That The Lutheran Church--Missouri Synod, in convention, reaffirm the position it stated in 1973, "That the Synod recognize homophile behavior as intrinsically sinful"; and be it further

Resolved, That the President of the Synod direct the appropriate boards and commissions to develop a plan for ministry usable by congregations, campus ministries, institutions, and agencies in the Synod, for the purpose of providing biblical and Gospel-oriented ministry to persons troubled by being homophile in their sexual orientations and to their families; and be it finally

Resolved, That the goals to be pursued by such a plan for ministry be

to offer to our world biblically alternative models of sexual celibacy outside of a committed, permanent heterosexual marriage and same-gender social, but not genitally sexual, deep friendships;
to confront the individual with his/her sinfulness, and call him/her to repentance;
to help the individual recognize that God can rescue individuals from homosexual orientation and practice;
to assure him/her of forgiveness in Christ, contingent upon sincere repentance and faith in Christ, and to assure him/her of the love and acceptance of the church;
to assist the individual to rely on Christ's love and strength to abstain from homophile behavior;
to help the individual to bear his/her burden without fear of recrimination and rejection by his/her sisters and brothers in Christ;
to find ways of ministering to families which include persons of homophile orientation;
to do all this patiently, persistently, and compassionately in the love and Spirit of Christ, who says, "Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more."

[ChiRho]

Thanks, I'm glad to know that God dropped the Book of Concord down from heaven for us with a parachute and all... Hold on while I put it right next to the Bible on my shelf.


:idea: Better yet, why dont you read them both.

Pax Christi,

ChiRho

[Rechtgläubig]

If you are going to tell me that there are some individual acts of homosexuality that are sinful actions and lifestyles to get into, then okay, I can accept that. There are some homosexual acts that are wrong, and when I say that it's okay to be gay, I'm not saying those acts are okay.
I don't understand the logic in any of this. Some individual acts of child molestation are wrong, but to be a pedophile is not... some individual acts of killing are wrong, but it is ok to be a serial killer...

This all reminds me of another simular crafty lie that led so many to their death, "You will not surely die", said the serpent to the woman...

[Rechtgläubig]

"It is one thing to repent of what you do, it is another to repent of who you are" - Tony Campola
I also have a problem with this statement. It seems to have an "age of accountability" ring to it.

King David, wailing about his sin in Psalm 51, not only cries out about the sins he has done, but also what he was (from conception).

[ChiRho]

I also have a problem with this statement. It seems to have an "age of accountability" ring to it.

King David, wallowing in his sin in Psalm 51, not only cries out about the sins he has done, but also what he was (from conception).

I think Recht is completely right.

Who am I?

Wretched sinner, guilty of despising our God, in all that I do, say, and think.

Can one divide self from will?

Our very nature is sinful and unclean...perverse...and that continually! Our will is not God's will, as we rightly confess in the Lord's Prayer:


Our Father, who art in heaven, Hallowed be thy Name.
Thy kingdom come.
Thy will be done, On earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our trespasses,
As we forgive those who trespass against us.
And lead us not into temptation,
But deliver us from evil.
For thine is the kingdom,
and the power,
and the glory,
for ever and ever.
Amen.

In this prayer, we actually ask that our will be crushed and God's will be accomplished. We are praying against our will!

To claim that we need to seek forgiveness for actions only...I believe is another attempt to justify ourselves apart from God. We should seek forgiveness for the God-haters we are!

Praise be to Christ for pardoning a sinner such as me!

Pax Christi,

ChiRho

[JMRE5150]

I think Recht is completely right.

Who am I?

Wretched sinner, guilty of despising our God, in all that I do, say, and think.

Can one divide self from will?

Our very nature is sinful and unclean...perverse...and that continually! Our will is not God's will, as we rightly confess in the Lord's Prayer:


Our Father, who art in heaven, Hallowed be thy Name.
Thy kingdom come.
Thy will be done, On earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our trespasses,
As we forgive those who trespass against us.
And lead us not into temptation,
But deliver us from evil.
For thine is the kingdom,
and the power,
and the glory,
for ever and ever.
Amen.

In this prayer, we actually ask that our will be crushed and God's will be accomplished. We are praying against our will!

To claim that we need to seek forgiveness for actions only...I believe is another attempt to justify ourselves apart from God. We should seek forgiveness for the God-haters we are!

Praise be to Christ for pardoning a sinner such as me!

Pax Christi,

ChiRho
Chi...I mean this with all my heart...

I absolutely do believe this is the singlemost outstanding post you have ever made. Concise, simplistic, true, pure and straight to the point of the issue, and every Christian.

I'm quite impressed, in full agreement, and couldn't have said it any better myself.

Hats off to you, mate. If only more folks would feel this way.

The beauty of this response is, it didn't require countless references or doctrinal postings, but straight and direct laymans terms words, that all can understand and digest completely.

Amen Brother...Amen.

God's words just poured through you. I'm positive of that.


Robb

[ChiRho]

God once spoke through the mouth of an *** [donkey].

-Martin Luther

Apparently He did so again, today. :)

Thanks for your kind words JM.

Pax Christi,

ChiRho

[JVAC]

Thanks, I'm glad to know that God dropped the Book of Concord down from heaven for us with a parachute and all... Hold on while I put it right next to the Bible on my shelf.
That's where mine is....:| . If one didn't believe the Confessions in the BoC then why would one be Lutheran?

Ich spreche sehr guet Deutsch ! :D
Das ist wunderbar! Oktoberfest Jetzt!!!! :clap:


-James

[Lotar]

That's where mine is....:| . If one didn't believe the Confessions in the BoC then why would one be Lutheran?


The real question is, why would a denomination call itself Lutheran if it does not follow the confessions of the BoC? ;)

[Pacigoth13]

Now here's the kicker... You all probably think I'm liberal on the gay issue... actually, my pastor thinks I'm conservative on it... :-)

A few comments on your posts...

1. Gay people are just like any other minority people. Is it a sin to be left handed? To be handicapped? To be a woman? To be black? To be Jewish?
NNNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Do Jews sin? Yes. Do blacks sin? Yes. Do handicapped and left handed people sin? Yes. Do women sin? Yes. Do we ALL sin? Yes.

2. Gays need to be liberated from society that looks down on them as minorities... they also need to be liberated from a lifestyle that inflicts damage on themselves.

3. Regarding the repentance of "what we are". The way you all took that, especially in quoting the psalms, is that "what we are" = sinners. We are sinners, and thus we sin. To this I entirely agree and on these terms we have to repent of both. The fact of being a sinner IS something we can do something about... confession and repentance. However, there are some things we can do nothing about, it is who we are. We don't tell left-handed people they need to "repent" of their left handedness. Of being a sinner? Yes. Of sinning? Yes. Of being left handed? NO. Same with the gays. Do they need to repent of acts of sin? Yes. Of a lifestyle that goes along with being a sinner? Yes. Of being gay? NO!!!!!!!!!!!!

I may be a "Liberal Lutheran" but I am still a Lutheran, and I still take sin seriously. Yes we are all sinners, including gays, and we all need to repent and be forgiven. Look on the bright side, at least I'm not the next John Shelby Spong. :-)

[JVAC]

The real question is, why would a denomination call itself Lutheran if it does not follow the confessions of the BoC? ;)
I haven't yet seen a homosexual stance explicitly spelled out in the BoC; of course I have not read it all.

-James

[ChiRho]

[QUOTE=Pacigoth13]Now here's the kicker... You all probably think I'm liberal on the gay issue... actually, my pastor thinks I'm conservative on it... :-)


If this is true, then this is heart wrenching....but not shocking.


A few comments on your posts...

1. Gay people are just like any other minority people. Is it a sin to be left handed? To be handicapped? To be a woman? To be black? To be Jewish?
NNNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Do Jews sin? Yes. Do blacks sin? Yes. Do handicapped and left handed people sin? Yes. Do women sin? Yes. Do we ALL sin? Yes.

First of all, while homosexuals surely are a "minority" group, this entire argument is based on fallacy. Homosexuality is a sin that is clearly laid out in Holy Scripture. I did not make the rules....God most certainly did. This is poor and incorrect comparison.

Physical deformities and deficiencies are a result of original sin and evidence of the sinful state in which we live. Being woman or a black person is not sinful. Assuming you mean Jewish in the genetic or ethnic sense, that would not be a sin, but being Jewish, religiously and believing what the Jews believe is certainly a state of unbelief, which is sin that condemns.

2. Gays need to be liberated from society that looks down on them as minorities... they also need to be liberated from a lifestyle that inflicts damage on themselves.


Well, I am probably in the minority on this one, but I believe gay marriages (liscensed and recognized by the State) should be legal and permissable. This ofcourse says nothing about the validity before God, which there is none. If Peter and Mark want to get married who am I to protest? But this is not a marriage in the same biblical sense that God has ordained marriage.

3. Regarding the repentance of "what we are". The way you all took that, especially in quoting the psalms, is that "what we are" = sinners. We are sinners, and thus we sin. To this I entirely agree and on these terms we have to repent of both. The fact of being a sinner IS something we can do something about... confession and repentance.However, there are some things we can do nothing about, it is who we are.

I disagree. We may receive forgiveness....this is not something that we accomplish. Although one may "sin less," one is never any less sinful.

We don't tell left-handed people they need to "repent" of their left handedness. Of being a sinner? Yes. Of sinning? Yes. Of being left handed? NO. Same with the gays. Do they need to repent of acts of sin? Yes. Of a lifestyle that goes along with being a sinner? Yes.

I think I agree...really not sure as this is hard to follow.

Of being gay? NO!!!!!!!!!!!!

Completely disagree. While I may concede that some are born gay, even if this is true (which it has not been proven) I dont believe this is even reason enough to proclaim it unsinful, just as if I were to claim that I was born with "healthy" desires for women and their flesh and because it is "natural" I should not be responsible. I am still of the belief that most if not all homosexuals are a product of their environment, usually a very sick and saddening past, filled with neglect, abuse, and cruelty. I do not believe homosexuals are any more sinful than I am, but just as sinful and although gay desires may never relent, even until death, one must prevent from acting on these desires, and definitely avoid being unrepentant for such desires. Unrepentance is a slippery slope that leads, very quickly, to unbelief!


I may be a "Liberal Lutheran" but I am still a Lutheran, and I still take sin seriously. Yes we are all sinners, including gays, and we all need to repent and be forgiven. Look on the bright side, at least I'm not the next John Shelby Spong. :-)

Well, even Lutherans, do not take sin seriously enough. No one is repentant and contrite as is commanded. At this we even fail! Not sure that is such a bright side.

Pax Christi,

ChiRho

[JMRE5150]

Well......................I'm speechless.


I actually agree with the bodybuilding nut. Wow.

Chi, this may very well be a first for us.


*drops the soda in his hand on the ground - unable to move*


Someone call 911, I believe I'm having a heartattack. ;)


Robb

[ChiRho]

Well......................I'm speechless.


I actually agree with the bodybuilding nut. Wow.

Chi, this may very well be a first for us.


*drops the soda in his hand on the ground - unable to move*


Someone call 911, I believe I'm having a heartattack. ;)


Robb

It is just freak chance! You and I are both Lutherans...eventually the odds are in our favor that we might agree on one issue....now and then. LOL! Why is everyone so shocked and seemingly terrified when they assent with something I say? Now I am sending some into cardiac arrest!

Wait a minute! I know what this is! :idea:

*ChiRho remember JM's previous post*

j/k mate...you know I couldn't resist rubbing you the wrong way yet again. *wink*

This is nothing but a bad attempt by JM, to solicite CPR from me! It aint gonna work, but awful fitting in the "gay" discussion thread! ;)

LOL

Pax Christi,

ChiRho

[Flipper]

Completely disagree. While I may concede that some are born gay, even if this is true (which it has not been proven) I dont believe this is even reason enough to proclaim it unsinful, just as if I were to claim that I was born with "healthy" desires for women and their flesh and because it is "natural" I should not be responsible. I am still of the belief that most if not all homosexuals are a product of their environment, usually a very sick and saddening past, filled with neglect, abuse, and cruelty. I do not believe homosexuals are any more sinful than I am, but just as sinful and although gay desires may never relent, even until death, one must prevent from acting on these desires, and definitely avoid being unrepentant for such desires. Unrepentance is a slippery slope that leads, very quickly, to unbelief!
This is scary. I agree with you. I really believe that there are some people that God does not mean to be in a traditional relationship to be able to use them as He wills - and not necessarily in a homosexual relationship.

This is nothing but a bad attempt by JM, to solicite CPR from me! It aint gonna work, but awful fitting in the "gay" discussion thread! ;)

Oh you wish...
wait a minute, I'm supposed to be a mom here. Get your mind out of the gutter, young man!!! (I need a wagging finger smilie).

[LuxPerpetua]

Cheers, ChiRho! What else can one say?! You are spot on, mate.

I will add that it is a fine balance between absolute ideals and absolute love, and we ALL fail miserably every day. Let's just pray that in spite of ourselves, God will use us as instruments of His will. :pray:

[ChiRho]

[QUOTE=Flipper]This is scary. I agree with you. I really believe that there are some people that God does not mean to be in a traditional relationship to be able to use them as He wills - and not necessarily in a homosexual relationship.


Ummm...I am not sure I follow....could you explain or give examples of what you mean?


Oh you wish...
wait a minute, I'm supposed to be a mom here. Get your mind out of the gutter, young man!!! (I need a wagging finger smilie).

I have come to the realization that the internal 12 year old child in me will never cease to be! :D

Pax Christi,

ChiRho

[Flipper]

What do I mean? Well, I think some people are born gay. It has been scientifically proven. I also think God has direction for some people that might not include traditional marriage. That absolutely does not mean I think single people are gay if that is where you think my logic is going with this.

I just think that it is in God's plan that there are some people who are homosexual, and of course are not allowed to act on it - that something of much greater satisfaction is in God's will for them. It's one of those many things that are so beyond our understanding because His ways are not ours.

[ChiRho]

What do I mean? Well, I think some people are born gay. It has been scientifically proven. I also think God has direction for some people that might not include traditional marriage. That absolutely does not mean I think single people are gay if that is where you think my logic is going with this.

I just think that it is in God's plan that there are some people who are homosexual, and of course are not allowed to act on it - that something of much greater satisfaction is in God's will for them. It's one of those many things that are so beyond our understanding because His ways are not ours.

Umm.. Coerced into sin? I am really trying to understand...please be patient! God makes us sinful?

It has been scientifically proven that people are born gay! Do you have any sources, I would love to read over the material.

Pax Christi,

ChiRho

[JVAC]

Well, I am probably in the minority on this one, but I believe gay marriages (liscensed and recognized by the State) should be legal and permissable. This ofcourse says nothing about the validity before God, which there is none. If Peter and Mark want to get married who am I to protest? But this is not a marriage in the same biblical sense that God has ordained marriage.
This is my opinion too :D . "You can have your mariages, just keep it out of the Church" is what I say, maybe some Mormans can marry you and make you think like you are doing the right thing.

-James

[Flipper]

Umm.. Coerced into sin? I am really trying to understand...please be patient! God makes us sinful?

It has been scientifically proven that people are born gay! Do you have any sources, I would love to read over the material.

Pax Christi,

ChiRho
It was all over MSN Health a few years ago. No I don't have specific links, sorry, you'll just have to take my word for it. Isn't my word good enough??? :holy:

Coerced into sin? I never said that. Everyone has sexual urges before they are married (and even while they are married or at least I hope so - as long as it is towards the spouse). What's the "sin" difference whether those premarital sexual urges are hetero or homosexual? We are born sinful, right?

[ChiRho]

Permit me an attempt at clarifying what I am talking about. I realize that I was a bit vague with my first response.

[QUOTE=Flipper]What do I mean? Well, I think some people are born gay. It has been scientifically proven.

While I do not rule this out as a possiblity, I am not convinced it is so.

I also think God has direction for some people that might not include traditional marriage. That absolutely does not mean I think single people are gay if that is where you think my logic is going with this.

A little confused about this, so here goes. What does direction mean and could you identify those not in a traditional marriage?


I just think that it is in God's plan that there are some people who are homosexual, and of course are not allowed to act on it - that something of much greater satisfaction is in God's will for them.

This is the sentence that caused me to ask about coercion. To say that God's plan is homosexuality for some, is to say that God planned sin and is responsible for it.

Hopefully this is read much clearer than my first response. :)

Pax Christi,

ChiRho

[Flipper]

You're fine, Chi. I'm not being clear. I'm also half asleep right now and I think my husband just got home from work (at leat I hope so cause I don't know how much longer I can stay awake). Not blowing you off, I will rethink what I'm saying and try to explain better later.

[Flipper]

Ok ChiChi. I've thought long and hard about this. Now I have a question: how are we born with sin if God did not plan it?

[LuxPerpetua]

OOPS! Posted in wrong thread. Just ignore me, okay? :blush:

[ChiRho]

Ok ChiChi. I've thought long and hard about this. Now I have a question: how are we born with sin if God did not plan it?

Flipper,

I hadnt noticed that you had responded until this morning. I have to train someone, but I will answer your post when I am done...as long as you stop with the "ChiChi!" My username is ChiRho (pronounced key row), I am not named after an hispanic golfer. ;) :D

Pax Christi,

ChiRho

[Flipper]

Ok,... Chi Chi Chi ChiRho ^_^

[ChiRho]

Ok,... Chi Chi Chi ChiRho ^_^

Scolding like mom, then antagonizing like a sister...you need to get a firm grip on which role you would like to assume! :P

To address your question...

God is certainly omniscient (all knowing), but that does not mean that He is all causing. He is not the cause of evil. Sin, and evil, is rebellion against God...who is Perfect and Holy. While God is certainly always in control, He does permit sin and evil, for none could exist without His allowance, but He is never the creator of evil or sin (Free Will). He does not impute sin to His people. We are solely responsible...even for our original sin. Before the Fall, we were in the image of God, but as soon as man ate of the forbidden fruit, man and his entire world was cast into a state of sin. We were all infected with this disease by our own desire. We willingly ate of the poison. All of us are now made in the image of our earthly father, no longer possessing the image of God, but the image of man. We are inclined to evil from conception and that continually. We are made anew in Christ...our sin is forgiven and we are claimed by Christ...it is in the water of Holy Baptism that God Washes and Gathers His children.

Homosexuality is a sin, just as lusting heterosexually for that which we are not given, nor entitled to. God has declared what is right and wrong...for the wrong that we embrace and infects us, we must repent for. But, salvation is a free gift, given even to those who have homosexual lusts and desires. Christ justifies every sinner that clings to Him. For those who persistantly seek to justify their sin within, and remain unrepentant, unbelief is soon upon them. God will allow for rejection, but He is not the cause.


Pax Christi,

ChiRho

[Flipper]

Scolding like mom, then antagonizing like a sister...you need to get a firm grip on which role you would like to assume! :P


Har! I have a sister close to your age. I guess I could be a mom, but take one look at me, and I really can't be your mom. I've been told I look pretty young, at least that's what Phoebe says. I certainly don't act my age.

Will think (ouch), then will post a response - I do appreciate what you have to say as it does make me think, which is painful.

[ByzantineDixie]

Will think (ouch),

^_^

then will post a response - I do appreciate what you have to say as it does make me think, which is painful.

ChiChi does have a way of making one think. I think I was much happier when I was ignorant. ;) Fat, dumb and happy wasn't such a bad deal!!! :D

Nah, ChiChi...keep it comin'. :D -----R

[JVAC]

SECRETARY’S REPORT OF RESOLUTIONS ADOPTED BY THE

SIERRA PACIFIC SYNOD OF THE ELCA IN ASSEMBLY

on May 14 & 15, 2004

Resolution 04-01 Closer Relationship with LCMS Congregations

Resolved, that the Monterey Conference memorialize the Sierra Pacific Synod gathered in Assembly to direct Bishop Mullen to appoint a task force to explore ways that congregations of the Sierra Pacific Synod of the ELCA and the LCMS California-Nevada-Hawaii District might work together closer in different ministries. Carried

Resolution 04-02 In Support of Lutheran Advocacy Ministry in Nevada (LAMN)

Resolved, that the Sierra Pacific Synod, meeting in Assembly in Reno, Nevada,. commend Lutheran Advocacy Ministry in Nevada (LAMN), its Lobbyist Larry Struve, its Director Roland Grumm and its leadership, as well as the support of Synodical Bishop David Mullen and committed members of Nevada Lutheran congregations, for their faithful advocacy efforts in 2003, especially with the deadlocked Nevada Legislature; people of faith in Nevada had a voice in the public arena, as LAMN - together with the Religious Alliance in Nevada (RAIN) (an alliance of the judicatories of the Episcopal Church, Presbyterian Church in the USA, Roman Catholic Church., United Methodist Church and LAMN)- exercised its advocacy for the poor and needy; and, be it further

Resolved, that the Sierra Pacific Synod support the efforts of LAMN to educate members of the ELCA Nevada Congregations in their advocacy responsibilities according to the ELCA Social Statements, urging each congregation in Nevada to select 2 or 3 Advocacy Contact Persons who would receive information and direction from LAMN, communicating this to their fellow members, to inspire them in advocacy ministry; and, be it further

Resolved, that, while LAMN is grateful for financial support received from the Sierra Pacific Synod and its members and congregations in the past, the Sierra Pacific Synod consider a meaningful increase in that financial support, and encourage congregations and members to do the same. Carried

Resolution 04-03 Utilizing ELCA Studies on Sexuality

Resolved, that the 2004 Sierra Pacific Synod Assembly encourages each congregation in the synod to undertake a study using the materials provided by the ELCA with the intention that every member of the Sierra Pacific Synod voting delegation to the 2005 Churchwide Assembly will have spent time in prayer and study about this issue prior to the vote on the Churchwide Assembly floor in 2005; and, be it further

Resolved, that congregations and members of the Sierra Pacific Synod engage in corporate and personal prayer for the guidance of the Holy Spirit at this 2005 Churchwide Assembly. Carried

Resolution 04-04 A Companion Synod Relationship with the Lutheran Church of Rwanda

Resolved, that the Sierra Pacific Synod of the ELCA establish a Companion Synod relationship with the Lutheran Church of Rwanda; and, be it further

Resolved, that this resolution be referred to the Synod Council for implementation, with periodic updates given through the Praxis newsletter; and, be it further

Resolved, that information be shared with our congregations about the Lutheran Church of Rwanda, and that congregations would regularly pray for the members, pastor, and Bishop of the LCR, communicate with them, and learn from them as the strive to bring reconciliation to Rwanda through our Lord, Jesus Christ. Carried

Note: Synod Council took special action at its May 12, 2004 meeting to communicate the following message:

Synod Council encourages the Voting Members of this Assembly to use the Holy Conversation processes to facilitate conversations in your Home congregations and conferences about the issues raised in: Resolution 04-05 pertaining to Civil Marriage, Resolution 04-06 pertaining to Support for ECP Pastors, and Resolutions 04-10 pertaining to Supporting St Francis and First United, REGARDLESS OF THE OUTCOME of the votes on these resolutions.

Resolution 04-05 In Support of Civil Marriage

Resolved, that the Sierra Pacific Synod in Assembly affirms that marriage and other civil rights protections are essential to making all families safer and more secure; and be it further

Resolved, that the Sierra Pacific Synod in Assembly affirms the right of every American to marry, including lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender couples; and be it finally

Resolved, that the Sierra Pacific Synod in Assembly supports the efforts to make civil marriage for lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender couples a reality in our country and opposes any attempts to discriminate against lgbt couples and individuals. Carried [On a vote of 279 in Favor and 197 Against (66 of whom requested that their names be recorded in the Minutes as having voted against the resolution)].

Resolution 04-06 In Support of ECP Pastors

Resolved, that the Sierra Pacific Synod shall maintain a list of the significant dates of Extraordinary Project Candidacy Project pastors serving congregations and ministries of our synod; and be it further

Resolved, that the Sierra Pacific Synod shall honor these pastors on the occasion of significant anniversaries with attribution and acknowledgment in a manner similar to that given all other clergy who serve in congregations and ministries of our synod; and be it finally

Resolved, that all official directories and lists published by the synod office shall list the names and other relevant information of pastors not on the ELCA roster who are under call to ELCA congregations and ministries within our synod. Carried

Resolution 04-07 For Peace in Iraq

Resolved, that the Sierra Pacific Synod re-affirms that peacemaking is an essential part of the Synod's Mission and Ministry, and be it further

Resolved, that the war waged by the United States in Iraq be deemed an unjust war, and be it further

Resolved, that the Sierra Pacific Synod condemns this unjust war on Iraq and declares itself to be an opponent of this war, and be it further

Resolved, that the Sierra Pacific Synod encourage the ELCA to declare its opposition to the war on Iraq, and be it further

Resolved, that the Sierra Pacific Synod urge the President to recognize and support the authority of the United Nations in promoting peace and rebuilding Iraq; and be it further

Resolved, that the Sierra Pacific Synod continues to offer support and prayer for our troops in Iraq and for all people involved in and affected by this war; and be it finally

Resolved, that the Sierra Pacific Synod Assembly directs the Synod Council to forward this resolution to the Church Council for consideration and possible action to declare its opposition to the war on Iraq. Carried (On a vote of 255 For and 249 Against).

Resolution 04-09 Support for Bread for the World’s Offering of Letters

Resolved, that the Sierra Pacific Synod congratulate Bread for the Word on this occasion of its 30th anniversary for its effective witness and powerful voice on behalf of the world’s poor and hungry people; and be it further

Resolved, that we commend Bread for the World to all of the congregations of our synod and encourage them to become Covenant Congregations; and be it further

Resolved, that the Sierra Pacific Synod strongly urges all its congregations to celebrate an annual “Offering of Letters” for as long as God’s children go hungry; and be it finally

Resolved,that we invite the Synod Council to explore further ways for our synod to deepen its relationships with Bread for the World and to implement steps toward a stronger partnership. Carried

Resolution 04-10 Supporting St. Francis and First United

Resolved, that the Sierra Pacific Synod in Assembly invite St. Francis and First United Lutheran Churches in San Francisco to apply for full membership in our synod, with the intention of their readmission; and be it further

Resolved, that in the event that they choose to apply, we urge the Synod Council to accept their application and recognize and receive them into full membership in the Sierra Pacific Synod. Carried (On a vote of 265 For and 240 Against).

Resolution 04-14 To Fight Global AIDS

Resolved, that the Sierra Pacific Synod urges all candidates for U.S. President in our upcoming election to endorse and implement the following measures to fight global AIDS:

• Support trade policies that ensure access to affordable generic drugs;

• Implement disease prevention policies that support effective, science-based prevention strategies;

• Work with other nations to ensure the implementation of policies that provide total support to orphans and children in developing countries infected and affected by AIDS;

• Support policies that reduce the vulnerability of women and girls to infections and needless death;

• Fight tuberculosis and malaria as part of a comprehensive plan to combat HIV/AIDS;

• Commit significant new resources towards developing effective vaccines and microbicides. Carried


Note: Three resolutions that were considered by the Assembly failed to pass:

Resolution 04-08 which pertained to Pledge 04 Stop AIDS;

Resolution 04-11 which proposed a change in the Assembly’s Standing Rule on the due date for the submission of resolutions; and,

Resolution 04-13 which might have led to churchwide assembly voting members being elected to serve at two successive churchwide assemblies.

One Resolution, 04-12, was ruled out of order because it purported to amend a Synod Bylaw (to make the vice president a voting member of every churchwide assembly). Though fifteen members of the 2004 Assembly could have legally offered the proposed amendment, no one took that action.
http://www.spselca.org/News/2000_assembly_report.htm

-James

[JVAC]

Just to update, some congregations are now with-holding financial support from the Synod.

-James