Nazarenes and Dancing

[Reborn_in_Christ2003]

My church of the Nazarene does not support social dancing. I have heard some Nazarene Churches do. Is this true? Is the church changing?

[Crono]

At the General Assembly in 1997, the wording about dancing was changed in the Manual. I don't know what it said exactly either before or after the change, but the change no longer strictly prohibited dancing. I think it says something about dancing being permitted if it is cultural or if it does not solicit sinful behavior (I wish I knew the wording exactly--another good reason to pick up a Manual). Based on this, Nazarenes can dance in certain contexts.

Of course, there is a wide range of opinions on dancing throughout the church, so many individual churches have more strict attitudes about it than others. In the Nashville area, I haven't heard anyone make a big deal about it, and I know a number of Nazarene dancers. It may be different in other areas. I'm an avid swing dancer and occasional dance instructor myself, so I'm content with the attitude that it is permissible.

[Reborn_in_Christ2003]

This is from the 2001-2005 manual. In the constitution section 34.5 about Covenant of Christian Conduct it says "All forms of dancing that detract from spiritual growth and break down proper moral inhibitions and reserve.

[Crono]

Thanks, Reborn. The implication, therefore, is that forms of dancing that do not detract from spiritual growth or break down proper moral inhibitions and reserve are permitted.

To answer your original question, yes, the Church of the Nazarene is changing, but that's not unusual. The Manual has far fewer restrictions on behavior now than it did 50 years ago.

[Joshua Howard]

The church is following in the footsteps of the world, friends. The standard of Christdom should not be lowered. As for social dancing, I say, unconditionally, NO. God Bless,

Joshua Howard

[bigsierra]

Dancing has it's place in Christian history and always has. Dirty dancing never has. ;)

[Crono]

The church is following in the footsteps of the world, friends. The standard of Christdom should not be lowered. As for social dancing, I say, unconditionally, NO. God Bless,

Joshua Howard
The church is not lowering any standard if the standard was not Christian in the first place.

[vibrant]

when i think of social dancing, i think of clubs. and when i think of dancing at night clubs, i think of simulating sex on the dance floor... i'm glad that the issue of dancing is raised because it brings it to our attention that it isn't always acceptable behaviour.

[Islander]

The church is not lowering any standard if the standard was not Christian in the first place.
Very true. I'm from a Baptist background that said dancing and alcohol are a sin so when I started reading the Bible and found out what it teaches I was shocked (why don't we have a shocked smilee). Personally I don't drink or dance but I wouldn't mind learning to dance. Dancing and wine are created by God but Satan corrupts them with our help. If done responsibly they are good but if done dishonorably they are a sin.

[Celticflower]

The church is following in the footsteps of the world, friends. The standard of Christdom should not be lowered. As for social dancing, I say, unconditionally, NO. God Bless,

Joshua Howard


Does this mean I should not have danced with my husband at our wedding?
Exactly where do you draw the line? I can see "dirty dancing" being a no, but what about ballroom dancing? Even David danced before God.

Celtie

[ChiRho]

The church is following in the footsteps of the world, friends. The standard of Christdom should not be lowered. As for social dancing, I say, unconditionally, NO. God Bless,

Joshua Howard

Is social dancing the culprit and the cause of sin? Or is it our sinful lusts which come spewing forth from our darkened heart? By your understanding, I should seclude myself...never to venture out into or expose myself to anything in the world, for that puts my eyes at risk for all kinds of sins (lusting, coveting,etc). Should we lock ourselves in an empty room, to avoid all possible temptation?

I believe that an empty room would not help, as my sin radiates from my very core....I am the cause of my sin, not my actions...they are a result.

Matthew 15

"It is not what enters into the mouth that defiles the man, but what proceeds out of the mouth, this defiles the man."
12 Then the disciples came and said to Him, "Do You know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this statement?"
13 But He answered and said, "(9) Every plant which My heavenly Father did not plant shall be uprooted.
14 "Let them alone; (10) they are blind guides [2] of the blind. And (11) if a blind man guides a blind man, both will fall into a pit."


The Heart of Man

15 Peter said to Him, "(12) Explain the parable to us."
16 Jesus said, "Are you still lacking in understanding also?
17 "Do you not understand that everything that goes into the mouth passes into the stomach, and is eliminated?
18 "But (13) the things that proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and those defile the man.
19 "(14) For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, slanders.
20 "These are the things which defile the man; but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile the man."

We need not to spend time picking apart which moments of our day were sinless....there wasnt any. We can be sure of that, but be even more sure that we are Redeemed by Christ! Trust in His Promises and believe them valid for each of one of us, that is the saving faith. To have knowledge, assent, and TRUST in Christ, that His Body was given and His Blood spilled for the forgiveness of sins, for the entire world, but most importantly for you!

Pax Christi,

ChiRho

[Crono]

when i think of social dancing, i think of clubs. and when i think of dancing at night clubs, i think of simulating sex on the dance floor... i'm glad that the issue of dancing is raised because it brings it to our attention that it isn't always acceptable behaviour.
There is far more to dancing than that. Social dancing does not have to be about sex at all. In fact, I would argue that it usually isn't.

Generally, when people talk about social dancing, they are referring to any kind of partnered dancing in a social context. This can incorporate ballroom, swing, latin, and so on. Being a good dancer requires practice and skill, much like a sport. Most people would not see anything sexual about dancing, and I would even say that it is one of the cleanest activities you could possibly engage in.

[Reborn_in_Christ2003]

There is far more to dancing than that. Social dancing does not have to be about sex at all. In fact, I would argue that it usually isn't.

Generally, when people talk about social dancing, they are referring to any kind of partnered dancing in a social context. This can incorporate ballroom, swing, latin, and so on. Being a good dancer requires practice and skill, much like a sport. Most people would not see anything sexual about dancing, and I would even say that it is one of the cleanest activities you could possibly engage in.
With todays clothing and infulences from tv even dancing like that can be very unclean. Yes it isn't always unclean though.

1. Quite a few school dances are very gross and have swing, and latin dances and they can still be very unclean, go to any of the schools I have attended dances at or for that matter national Convention for FFA(don't laugh not everyone there is a hick) there is lots of grinding and body parts showing.

2. At two forensics tournaments I attended a few years ago there was very questionable dancing to very foul music at one, and teachers did okay it. At another there was a swing dancing contest and most female contestants were wearing very short skirts and about no underwear. They danced like this knowing what they were showing and not caring, plus teachers that witnessed let it continue and let one girl who was showing more than underwear continue into the finals giving people more chances to view.

When dancing is done in an enviroment like this even the safest of dancing types can be very bad. That is why I think that as more churches allow it's members to do social dancing,m it should be carefuly monitered and the church needs to let it's youth know what is and isn't right to do.

Just a side note this was about 1 year before I started going to church more than once a month on wednesdays, so I was paying attention and did view all this.

[Crono]

I do see some problems with this reasoning. It's like saying that Christians shouldn't participate in sporting events because people swear, drink, smoke, and behave un-Christlike ways toward the other team. The solution isn't to eliminate sports; it's to behave appropriately at the event.

The problem with saying that Christians shouldn't dance because some people behave inappropriately at dances is that it eliminates Christians' ability to change the situation. I can't comment on your examples because I wasn't there, but I can say that I've been to a large number of dances and rarely see any inappropriate activity, largely because the majority of the dancers I know are Christians. If Christians stopped dancing, the only ones left will be the people who do dance inappropriately. I would be very disappointed to see an art form like dancing degenerate because because Christians removed themselves from it.

[Arikereba]

If Christians stopped dancing, the only ones left will be the people who do dance inappropriately. I would be very disappointed to see an art form like dancing degenerate because because Christians removed themselves from it.
I have to disagree. I can't really imagine devout Muslims or Orthodox Jews dancing inappropriately, for one thing. And, truthfully--Christians don't have a monopoly on moral behavior. I was an agnostic for most of my life, and I don't think I've ever danced inappropriately...
Sorry, that's just a pet peeve of mine.

[Crono]

I have to disagree. I can't really imagine devout Muslims or Orthodox Jews dancing inappropriately, for one thing. And, truthfully--Christians don't have a monopoly on moral behavior. I was an agnostic for most of my life, and I don't think I've ever danced inappropriately...
Sorry, that's just a pet peeve of mine.
It was not my intention to imply that everyone else dances inappropriately. The point that I was trying to make was that Christians shouldn't exclude themselve from a potentially good activity just because there are others who misuse that activity. What you said is also a pet peeve of mine as well, but since I was making a point in a Christian context, I didn't think it was necessary to refer to other religions in my argument.

[wonder111]

I love dancing, and I never once thought of it as sexual. I guess it depends where you are dancing

[vibrant]

crono

:wave:

when i point out that there is a seedier side to dancing, i'm not saying that because of this, it should be forbidden -- but while some people seem miffed that we should dare be concerned about any activity, it's helpful to have a reminder that there is some rationale behind being concerned with it.

[Philo]

The church is following in the footsteps of the world, friends. The standard of Christdom should not be lowered. As for social dancing, I say, unconditionally, NO. God Bless,

Joshua Howard
The church is certainly going somewhere when a 15 year old boy issues a blanket condemnation of social dancing.

[TCapp]

Our church had no issues with us (hubby and me) going square dancing.

[Plan 9]

You know, It sounds like I may be very lucky indeed that my parents were UMC, if just in this one case (I think Nazarenes are terrific!). My father used providing a recording of Glen Miller's In the Mood for a youth dance, so that he could introduce himself to my mother, who was asssigned to gather the dance music. His memory isn't so good now, and so I regret not asking him how he got the money together to buy a copy after saying he had one. This was during the Great Depression, and my father's family was quite poor; the price of that record must been a fortune to him. He raised it though.
Later he raised me and my brother. ;)

[Plan 9]

Our church had no issues with us (hubby and me) going square dancing.

Square dancing is special, isn't it? I may be wrong, because I'm having a bad memory day, but I believe it's one of the frontier social dances designed to be truly social (e.g. you change partners, every young person in the community went to them, etc.), without an inordinate amount of physical contact.
I square danced my heart out when I was a child and loved every minute of it, but wouldn't have wanted any boy to get me in a clinch; boys had cooties, you know. ;)
Seriously, square dancing was special to me, and I'm thankful my parents were able to get me involved with other children in that wholesome way, because I was a painfully shy child, and was terrible at sports.

What do you think, TCapp? I've never really talked to anyone who square dances as an adult, although I love to watch people square dance.

[TCapp]

It was GCapp who introduced me to square dancing. I find it to be very fun and challenging too. Most physical contact involves hands, and there is never anything suggestive. I would love to get back to it, but we kinda stopped after the first baby arrived. Now with three kids, it would be challenging. But I still want to go back to it.

The local club is kind of petering out, too, as not as many folks dance anymore. :(

I sure dig wearing that crinoline and earning my dancing badges. Ever tried it with paper bags on your feet? ;)

[Plan 9]

It was GCapp who introduced me to square dancing. I find it to be very fun and challenging too. Most physical contact involves hands, and there is never anything suggestive. I would love to get back to it, but we kinda stopped after the first baby arrived. Now with three kids, it would be challenging. But I still want to go back to it.

Yes, I think it's a wholesome from of dancing and was intended to be so. :)
Hey, when your kids are old enough to learn it, you may have time to go back to it. :)

The local club is kind of petering out, too, as not as many folks dance anymore. :(

Ours seems to be doing fine, our ballroom dancing clubs are healthy, and swing (my father's romantic opportunity so many years ago) seems to be making a comeback here. These all seem to me to be harmless and enjoyable forms of dancing to me, and not suggestive. Believe you me, my mother and father would never have danced any dance with suggestive overtones, nor would their church have allowed their teenagers to do so there.

However, I couldn't agree more that the kinds in which the goal appears to be to plaster your body to your partner's so that you must have yourself sugically removed afterward isn't in the least Godly. (Where's a rolleyes smiley when you need one?)


I sure dig wearing that crinoline and earning my dancing badges. Ever tried it with paper bags on your feet? ;)

The crinolines are so beautiful! Paper bags??? http://sevenofnine.cherrytaco.com/Miscellanea/Emoticons/icon_rotfl.gif

No, you're mistaking me for someone who was good at square dancing! Plus, I was a little girl; what was the chance that the boys would dance with us if they were told they had do it with paper bags on their feet? In my day, girls had cooties, you know. ;)

[TCapp]

I guess we wore the paper bags on our feet (had to shuffle instead of step) in order to earn our "Boots and Bags" badge. ;)

Yeah, cooties were still in full force when I was a kid, too. :D

[ChiRho]

This is one of the silliest threads I have ever read... :scratch:

The whole matter about adding laws that God did not command, is not only vain attempts at false peity ( :sick: ) or sinful efforts to deny or displace the true source of evil (man)...but sometimes it's just simply strange (forbidding dancing :eek: )!!

Pax Christi,

ChiRho

[TCapp]

I agree a little bit, but I have a question: would you find "grinding" and some of those other dances to be "good clean Godly fun?"

[Plan 9]

This is one of the silliest threads I have ever read... :scratch:

The whole matter about adding laws that God did not command, is not only vain attempts at false peity ( :sick: ) or sinful efforts to deny or displace the true source of evil (man)...but sometimes it's just simply strange (forbidding dancing :eek: )!!

Pax Christi,

ChiRho

You know, ChiRho, I can't agree with your wholesale dismissal of this thread, and the opinions of the members expressed here as "silly", as examples of "false piety" or as "sinful efforts".
If God has given you the freedom from temptation so that you are able to spend an evening assuming a vertical form of the missionary position with no untoward consequences likely to result from doing so, then just be thankful, because he hasn't given that freedom to me.

[Plan 9]

I agree a little bit, but I have a question: would you find "grinding" and some of those other dances to be "good clean Godly fun?"

If I knew what "grinding" is, I'd be happy to answer that question for you. LOL

I certainly wouldn't in headbanging, even if I were physically capable of doing so, if that helps?

If there's no one to call the dance moves (do I have that right? I swear senility is setting in already) or the dancing style isn't old fashioned enough that the gentleman leads (and I do mean gentleman), then it's not dancing to me.
I like watching country and western line dancing, but I couldn't take part. I actually need my partner to lead in order to dance without coming to grief because I'm disabled.

But, if that weren't true, I still wouldn't engage in a great many forms of dancing for the reason I outlined to ChiRho, and also because the few I've seen simply don't seem like dancing at all to me.

[Plan 9]

I guess we wore the paper bags on our feet (had to shuffle instead of step) in order to earn our "Boots and Bags" badge. ;)

And anyone who can pull that off deserves a badge, in my opinion. :eek:

Yeah, cooties were still in full force when I was a kid, too. :D

This must be an important tradition to boys, and it's great to know that some things haven't changed. Just think, cooties may always be with us. Isn't that reassuring? ;)

[ChiRho]

You know, ChiRho, I can't agree with your wholesale dismissal of this thread, and the opinions of the members expressed here as "silly", as examples of "false piety" or as "sinful efforts".
If God has given you the freedom from temptation so that you are able to spend an evening assuming a vertical form of the missionary position with no untoward consequences likely to result from doing so, then just be thankful, because he hasn't given that freedom to me.

assuming a vertical form of the missionary position

"dirty" dancing? or foreplay? ;)

First of all, I do not dance. It never has interested me. Secondly, the action (inappropriate or sexual dancing) is a result of the inward sin, lust. The fault lies within the dancer not with dancing. This whole misconception of 'sin' and man's ability to avoid 'sinning' is probably the source of our division. Under Wesley's method system, man can avoid sin (somehow 'unintentional' or 'human error' doesnt really count! :scratch: ). In the Lutheran Church (and I believe in Scripture), sin is not limited to just thoughts, words, or actions. Certainly all of our thoughts, words, and actions are tainted as they are a product of sinners. But we believe sin is a bit more...it is the actual condition of this diseased and dying world in which we live. We are inclined to evil, and that continually, until we part with this mortal world. Christ, our Savior, proves to accomplish the impossible with every claim of a lost and death-deserving sinner. Power is not found in our ability to avoid sin. That is an inflated idea of man. True power is found in the Mercy of God...to save a wretched lot such as us. God repeatedly demonstrates His power in that which seems foolish and unappealing. Everything hinges upon that fundamental point in history...Jesus Christ, a poor carpenter hung on a cross (an act of pitiful weakness in the eyes of the scoffers and mockers). Christians know that this is the redemptive act of God, sacrificing Himself for the forgiveness of all and conquering Death for all of His wicked and disobedient children. In the vain glory of human reason, this event is deemed utterly deficient and the epitome of foolishness. God forever places Himself in that which man declares absurd. Completely fallen sinner, yet completely righteous saint...Foolishness! We are righteous on account of His Righteousness. We are cloaked in the Purity of the Perfect One. It is true that God sanctifies His children...but this is never to be understood as being less sinful. What are we saying when we restrict (forbid) any "Christians" from dancing, or alcohol, or rated "R" movies? Certainly we may be able to act on our perverted nature through these things, but it is our perverted nature that is to blame, not the action. What we are doing is attempting to make the "law of god" easier to fulfill. If anyone locked themselves in an empty room, with no "sinful" distractions, we would be guilty of violating God's Laws. We would still despise our God. We are sinners, and ALWAYS in a desperate and complete need of our Savior. He is not mere inspiration, but Rescuer and Redeemer. Our Father knows us on account of His Son, not on our futile account. Our account would damn us to Hell. On His account, we are Reconciled. So if one must avoid dancing (which may be wise) than please refrain from "gettin' jiggy wit it" (I hope I spelled that correctly), but never assume that by this, one is "more holy." Regardless if you are arriving home, drenched in sweat from the trendiest dance club- or massaging the blisters on your hand caused by a competitive night on the putt-putt course, trust that Christ died for the entire world and for you. For my sins and for yours.

Pax Christi,

ChiRho

[WesleyJohn]

.

[Plan 9]

From The Manual: Church of the Nazarene,

paragraph 34: We hold specifically that the following practices should be avoided:;

paragraph 34.4: All forms of dancing that detract from spiritual growth and break down proper moral inhibitions and reserve.

Grace and Peace,

WJ

Following the advice given in paragraph 34:4 is highly unlikely to make a sinner like myself any more holy than I am now, and Wesley never taught that it would, to my knowledge. However, I do know with absolute certainty that it's an extremely bad idea for me to crawl out on a limb and then proceed to saw it off myself.

[TCapp]

The dictionary defines grinding as an erotic rotation of the pelvis. I guess it's similar to "assuming a vertical form of the missionary position."

[Plan 9]

The dictionary defines grinding as an erotic rotation of the pelvis. I guess it's similar to "assuming a vertical form of the missionary position."

:doh: Thank you, TCapp! I find these definitions so very similar that any practical distinction between the two escapes me. http://sevenofnine.cherrytaco.com/Miscellanea/Emoticons/icon_rotfl.gif

[WesleyJohn]

.

[Celticflower]

[QUOTE=ChiRho.please refrain from "gettin' jiggy wit it" (I hope I spelled that correctly), .

ChiRho[/QUOTE]


Only time I "get jiggy with it" is when I'm watching the Ducks play hockey. (Jiggy is the goalie's nickname, for those who don't know)

[Plan 9]

Ah, yes. But...ignoring the advice in 34.4 seems like it might very well cause someone to be "less holy then they are now," doesn't it? Particularly teenagers?

I grew up in a Baptist church which frowned upon dancing. And so, I never went. It was never an issue for me. I suppose that I never understood why. But, now that I am an adult and have close interaction with teens, it seems to me that there is wisdom in advising people to "avoid forms of dancing which break down proper moral inhibition." Don't you think?

Grace and Peace,

WJ

I agree completely, WJ, especially since I was one of those teenagers
who showed no discernment whatsoever when choosing my social activities.
I exhibited few inhibitions of any kind, and before my conversion at eighteen, could not have found my own nether extremity with a map and a flashlight.
It's only through God's grace that I survived, and the temptations which unhappy teenagers experience today are far more dangerous than they were in my day.