Is the sinners prayer required to be saved ?

[LittleOrphanAndy]

Some say yes some say no.. I frankly dont know for sure .. I would like to hear from those who hold either opinion and discuss it fairly and politely .. I am unbiased and i see the argument from both sides .

Andy

[Vambram]

Saying a particular set of words in a prayer is not sufficient for one to receive salvation and forgiveness of Sin.
I believe that there must be real faith and real belief, and real confession when a sinner comes to Jesus trusting in HIM for forgiveness of Sin and Salvation from Sin; otherwise, if there isn't, then the sinner has merely just said a lot of empty words.

[LittleOrphanAndy]

There are those who sat that it is imperative to actualy ask christ verbaly to save you . But does the bible actualy say that? I think it is very common for people to either place their faith in faith or it becomes like a work .. as if i went through youre ritual then i am saved which of course is erroneaous.

[Hentenza]

Agree with Vam. Saying the sinner's prayer is simply a way of declaring to God that you are relying on Jesus Christ as your Savior. There are no "magical" words that result in salvation. It is only faith in Jesus' death and resurrection that can save us.
And yes Andy, we can agree.!!!!!;):wave:

[LittleOrphanAndy]

Why then are there thousands of tracts and there have been thousands of messages that absolutely insist that a verbal declaration or a personal invitation of christ into youre heart is neccesary for salvation?

Andy

[Hentenza]

Have some examples?

[LittleOrphanAndy]

I could send you links or post them if you would like ..But try the writings of Franklnin Graham Billy Graham , Ever watch Jack Van Impe ? Kenneth Copeland Oral Roberts Robert Schuller.Charles Stanley ..Ever sat in revival meetings of some evangelical churchs ? Ever been to a camp meeting?

Justification by faith is preached in these but there is usualy a prerequisite given to lay hold of salvation by means of a prayer ..

Oh but if you want specific links ill post them..

I know what I am talking about here ..

But debate is realy about what is right because some very contradicting concepts are presented here .

Ill name one .. to be saved you must ask christ in to youre heart ... to be saved you must believe .. well which is it .. i would go with believe .. but the same ministers who often preach one will add a but .. but you must believe and say this ....

[cubanito]

Not all prayer is formed as exact words, either in the mind or mouth: Romans 8:26

There are people who are unable to form words at all, some by speech impediment, others by damaged brains (Broca's apahsia) yet they can think clearly.

Despite the popular ideas of Worth, words are NOT required for thinking, nor does language limit the scope of one's thoughts (language greatly facilitates it, but is not required).

Therefore, the acknowledgement that one is a sinner, a hopeless wretch, plus the knowledge put into every human heart by God of His Holyness, coupled with a sincere plea for Mercy is sufficient.

Abraham did not know the name of Christ, or the details of His death ect. All Abraham knew was that 1- There is a Creator, and He is Holy and Just 2- Abraham (himself) was a miserable sinner not worthy to be in God's presence and 3- Somehow, God would provide a way of redemption

This was enough

JR

[fated]

Jesus doesn't discuss the sinner's prayer, but he says:
John 6:
53 Jesus said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. 54 Whoever eats 19 (http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/john/john6.htm#foot19) my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. 55 For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.

[Hentenza]

Jesus doesn't discuss the sinner's prayer, but he says:
John 6:
53 Jesus said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. 54 Whoever eats 19 (http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/john/john6.htm#foot19) my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. 55 For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.

That is the RC's interpretation of the verses that you quote but the verses need to be read in context. Verses 61 and 62 tells you:

61Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, "Does this offend you? 62What if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! 63The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life.

Verse 29 tells you:
29Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

And verses 35 and 36 tell you:
35Then Jesus declared, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry, and he who believes in me will never be thirsty. 36But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe.

The Scriptures declare that the Lord's Supper is a memorial to the body and blood of Christ (Luke 22:19; 1 Corinthians 11:24-25), not the actual consumption of His physical body and blood. When Jesus was speaking in John chapter 6, Jesus had not yet had the Last Supper with His disciples, in which He instituted the Lord’s Supper. Jesus made it exceedingly obvious what He meant in John 6:63. Jesus specifically stated that His words are “spirit.” Jesus was using physical concepts, eating and drinking, to teach spiritual truth. Just as consuming physical food and drink sustains our physical bodies, so are our spiritual lives saved and built up by spiritually receiving Him, by grace through faith. Eating Jesus’ flesh and drinking His blood are symbols of fully and completely receiving Him in our lives.

[fated]

That is the RC's interpretation of the verses that you quote but the verses need to be read in context. Verses 61 and 62 tells you:

61Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, "Does this offend you? 62What if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! 63The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life.

Verse 29 tells you:
29Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

And verses 35 and 36 tell you:
35Then Jesus declared, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry, and he who believes in me will never be thirsty. 36But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe.

The Scriptures declare that the Lord's Supper is a memorial to the body and blood of Christ (Luke 22:19; 1 Corinthians 11:24-25), not the actual consumption of His physical body and blood. When Jesus was speaking in John chapter 6, Jesus had not yet had the Last Supper with His disciples, in which He instituted the Lord’s Supper. Jesus made it exceedingly obvious what He meant in John 6:63. Jesus specifically stated that His words are “spirit.” Jesus was using physical concepts, eating and drinking, to teach spiritual truth. Just as consuming physical food and drink sustains our physical bodies, so are our spiritual lives saved and built up by spiritually receiving Him, by grace through faith. Eating Jesus’ flesh and drinking His blood are symbols of fully and completely receiving Him in our lives.
It looks to me like everyone, including the disciples thought he was talking about cannibalism. I did, in fact finish reading...
60 20 (http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/john/john6.htm#foot20) Then many of his disciples who were listening said, "This saying is hard; who can accept it?" 61 Since Jesus knew that his disciples were murmuring about this, he said to them, "Does this shock you? 62 What if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before? 21 (http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/john/john6.htm#foot21) 63 It is the spirit that gives life, while the flesh 22 (http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/john/john6.htm#foot22) is of no avail. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe." Jesus knew from the beginning the ones who would not believe and the one who would betray him. 65 And he said, "For this reason I have told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by my Father." 66 As a result of this, many (of) his disciples returned to their former way of life and no longer accompanied him. 67 Jesus then said to the Twelve, "Do you also want to leave?" 68 Simon Peter answered him, "Master, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life"

[cubanito]

if indeed the lords supper is req for salvation, then most RC are not saved, for most do not drink of the cup, and it is the blood of Jesus that saves

It is ironic that those who believe the Lord's supper to be symbolic only, do it as Jesus taught, while those who hold to transubstantiation negate the Word of Christ by witholding the cup from all at the table.

Myself, I am undecided between a symbolic only, or the "real Spiritual presence" and would even be willing to accept the Lutheran position.

But transubstantiation is the result of Neo-Platonic philosophy extending Scripture well beyond where it means to go. It relies on the highly speculative differentiation between "accidents" and "essense" which Plato championed, and is inimical to the Hebrew mindset.

JR

BTW: I am NOT saying that a RC is less likely to be a Christian that a Protestant. I am saying that IF they believe the Lord's supper is necessary for salvation, then the RC condemns the bulk of the masses to hell by witholding the cup. This is not meant in a hateful manner, and anyone who wants to know what I think about the RC can review my previews posts, where I pften come to their defense. It is meant to show the inconsistency in the RC official view of the Lord's supper, which is outside of Scriptural warrant.