What's happening in politics??

[Edial]

Sometimes I get amazed at the things I see on TV.

The Conservative Republican group appears to side with Romney.
Most of them call themselves Christians, yet have no problem siding with a Mormon whose faith teaches that a doctrine of Trinity is Satanic.

Am I seeing it right?

Thanks, :)
Ed

[DaRev]

What I have determined is that the media has more control over presidential candidates than anything else. That so-called debate last night was a prime example. It was mainly Romney vs. McCain, and I got so sick of it that I turned it off. Huckabee had very few questions asked of him and Ron Paul was basically censored. It was appalling.

[maylor]

I'm so disgusted with the choice a candidates this election that I may not even vote. And yes, Mormonism is a cult and many so called Christians are endorsing Romney anyway.

[stumpjumper]

Oh Canada...

Something like that :D

[porterross]

Are we moving toward a British-like cynicism? ;)

[maylor]

The Democratic race has been entertaining though, with the accusations of "racism" and "sexism" flying back and forth between the Clinton and Obama campaigns. Never thought I'd hear ol' Bill and Hillary being accused of racism.......makes me chuckle every time I think of it.

[porterross]

I guess ol' Bill just can't help himself, but you'd think it would make it obvious to dem. voters just how much of a team they truly were the last time they ran the White House.

[Edial]

I guess ol' Bill just can't help himself, but you'd think it would make it obvious to dem. voters just how much of a team they truly were the last time they ran the White House.
I heard a statement on TV saying that if she cannot control him now, how would she be able to control him in the white House?

It certainly would appear to become a tag-team presidency.

[porterross]

I think it's hilarious that his own party is telling him to back off. Let them fight with Obama, it's only helping the Republicans. :D

[RevCowboy]

Oh Canada...

Something like that :D

Huh?

While I might be sticking my neck out here, but I actually really like Obama and would definitely voted for him I lived in the US. However, this is probably because I live in Canada and your left wing party is more right wing than our conservative government. However, if the Dems actually made some sort of universal health care for the US that would bump them to left of our conservatives.

Our health care system is universal and its great and it was created by a Baptist Minister who is considered the father of health care and was recently voted the "Greatest Canadian" by a contest on one of our national tv stations.

[stumpjumper]

I just think our whole political process is a joke.

I'm already sick of the campaigning and race and it has only just begun...

BTW: I meant I want to move to Canada. My wife and I used to joke about it more often when we had to pay for private health insurance. I'm self-employed so I don't get health insurance. Up until last year, I had to pay for private insurance.

When it made it to $1300 a month, my wife had to go back to work. Now it comes out of her paycheck and it's only $900 a month. Still not cheap, though.

[Melethiel]

All the candidates look the same to me. All the Republicans look the same, and all the Democrats look the same. And they all suck.

Ukrainian politics is much more entertaining...they have fistfights in Parliament, for heaven's sake...

[ricker]

I just think our whole political process is a joke.

I'm already sick of the campaigning and race and it has only just begun...

BTW: I meant I want to move to Canada. My wife and I used to joke about it more often when we had to pay for private health insurance. I'm self-employed so I don't get health insurance. Up until last year, I had to pay for private insurance.

When it made it to $1300 a month, my wife had to go back to work. Now it comes out of her paycheck and it's only $900 a month. Still not cheap, though.
Perhaps goverment run health care would help you, and that would be great, but don't think it will be free. It will cost everyone plenty plus the cost of government administration. Look at what the feds did after Katrina. Do you trust them to administer health care?
Nothing against my brothers and sisters in Christ who live in Canada, but I like the USA, warts and all!

God bless! Ricker

[KEPLER]

Sometimes I get amazed at the things I see on TV.

The Conservative Republican group appears to side with Romney.
Most of them call themselves Christians, yet have no problem siding with a Mormon whose faith teaches that a doctrine of Trinity is Satanic.

Am I seeing it right?

Thanks, :)
Ed
I am at an absolute loss to understand what Romney's views on the Trinity have to do with his abilities as a leader?

What has happened to the doctrine of Two Kingdoms in Lutheranism?

We're not electing a theologian-in-chief.

Kepler

[RadMan]

Perhaps goverment run health care would help you, and that would be great, but don't think it will be free. It will cost everyone plenty plus the cost of government administration. Look at what the feds did after Katrina. Do you trust them to administer health care?
Nothing against my brothers and sisters in Christ who live in Canada, but I like the USA, warts and all!

God bless! Ricker
Well maybe you could talk to people form the UK or Canada about socialized medicine run by the government and see it as the travesty it is. Months and months for treatments that could be diagnosed in a timely fashion but it takes a few weeks just to get an appointment for a diagnosis. Falsifying of reports because there is no accountability to the people, just the government. Major health issues and needed operations put on hold because of the "boggin down" of bureaucracy. If your dying you might as well forget about "urgent care".

[DaRev]

Socialized medicine will never work in this country. There would be no checks to keep costs at bay. What is necessary is healthy competition with fair government regulations. The same needs to be done with our schools. The government run public schools are cesspools, in my opinion.

I liked the idea that I heard a number of years ago, to allow doctors to operate tax free if a certain percentage of their patients were low income and indigent.

[dinkime]

i am for Romney...too bad -- he has morals and is willing to work for our country -- mccain is too old for the job -- huckabee likes to raise taxes -- ron paul is more of a libertarian...and i would not vote for the democrats if my life depended on it

[KimLCMS]

i am for Romney...too bad -- he has morals and is willing to work for our country -- mccain is too old for the job -- huckabee likes to raise taxes -- ron paul is more of a libertarian...and i would not vote for the democrats if my life depended on it
I with you.

[stumpjumper]

Perhaps goverment run health care would help you, and that would be great, but don't think it will be free. It will cost everyone plenty plus the cost of government administration. Look at what the feds did after Katrina. Do you trust them to administer health care?

I don't think there is an easy solution. I'm not for socialized medicine but there has to be a better system than what we have now. At the very least, it needs to be somewhat affordable. The best deal I could find for private HMO was about $1000 a month.

We had personal choice and that was something like $1350 a month up until last winter when my wife went back to her nursing job.

The increase is exponential, too. My wife quit her hospital job when the twins were born 7 years ago. Then the Personal Choice was only $600 a month. It more than doubled since then and it has nothing to do with adding my youngest daughter as a the rates are for a family of four and over.

Anyway, one of the problems is that uninsured use the emergency rooms as a doctors office and non-profit hospitals can not turn them away. This is something my wife learned first hand when she was an RN at a hospital.

The buck gets passed to us who do pay for insurance and I don't have a lot of bucks left :P


Nothing against my brothers and sisters in Christ who live in Canada, but I like the USA, warts and all!

God bless! Ricker

Too cold there for me.

I do like the beer and sports, though.

God bless you too Ricker.

[LutheranChick]

Even tho I know he doesn't stand a chance, I still like Huckabee. I like his fair tax plan (that's what it's called, not my description) - which would eliminate the IRS (sorry- if anyone out there works for H&R BLock!).

I don't care for McCain - but if he picked Huckabee as a running mate I would probably vote for him.

Romney- I am not going to judge him for his religion. He still seems to be conservative, but with all his money, I am not sure if he can put his feet in the shoes of the 'little guy'. JMO.

However, if Romney ended up as the Republican candidate I would probably vote for him, too. I am basically at the point of 'the lesser of 2 evils' as I do not see the candidates on the other side of the aisle as a viable choice in my book.

[WildStrawberry]

McCain isn't going to choose either Romney or Huckabee, I posit. I think he'll tap Rudy and that's the reason Rudy dropped from the race.

I'm not a McCain fan...I agree that he's really too old for the job. We need fresh blood in the White House...someone that hasn't been on the Hill for ages.

I had a thought about Obama and Clinton the other night. If it comes true, I'll be scared. (:D)

I think that which ever gets the nomination will tap the other...most likely Obama tapping Clinton. Then, 6 months to a year into the term, Obama will die from "mysterious means".

And I hope I'll never get tapped for libel...it was just a thought...

Kae

[LutheranMafia]

I'm not a McCain fan...I agree that he's really too old for the job. We need fresh blood in the White House...someone that hasn't been on the Hill for ages.
You mean like Reagan…?

Bush was about as fresh as they come, yet he ended up being even more unpopular than Warren G. Harding. McCain is probably the most intelligent of the bunch on either side. He is the only candidate that I am definitely convinced is not addicted to lies. You can’t get elected in this country and tell the truth, so most politicians are people who really enjoy lying quite a bit.

I had a thought about Obama and Clinton the other night.
Naw, think Vice President Oprah! :D

[RevCowboy]

Well maybe you could talk to people form the UK or Canada about socialized medicine run by the government and see it as the travesty it is. Months and months for treatments that could be diagnosed in a timely fashion but it takes a few weeks just to get an appointment for a diagnosis. Falsifying of reports because there is no accountability to the people, just the government. Major health issues and needed operations put on hold because of the "boggin down" of bureaucracy. If your dying you might as well forget about "urgent care".

I don't know where you are getting your information, but this is simply untrue. Canada's healthcare system is one of the reasons that the UN consistently rates Canada as one of the best places in the world to live.

[ricker]

I don't think there is an easy solution. I'm not for socialized medicine but there has to be a better system than what we have now. At the very least, it needs to be somewhat affordable. The best deal I could find for private HMO was about $1000 a month.

We had personal choice and that was something like $1350 a month up until last winter when my wife went back to her nursing job.

The increase is exponential, too. My wife quit her hospital job when the twins were born 7 years ago. Then the Personal Choice was only $600 a month. It more than doubled since then and it has nothing to do with adding my youngest daughter as a the rates are for a family of four and over.

Anyway, one of the problems is that uninsured use the emergency rooms as a doctors office and non-profit hospitals can not turn them away. This is something my wife learned first hand when she was an RN at a hospital.

The buck gets passed to us who do pay for insurance and I don't have a lot of bucks left :P



Too cold there for me.

I do like the beer and sports, though.

God bless you too Ricker.

Thanks for your reply! I guess we are on about the same wavelength on this issue. I don't envy your situation at all! I personally pay about $450 a month for $1000 deductable insurance just for my two teenage sons and I through my employer. I thought that was bad. (my wife pays for her own).
There has got to be something both fair and compassionate that can be done without too much governmental bureaucracy and meddling. Like you I can't imagine socialized medicine is the way to go.
Does anyone out there know of a candidate that has the answer?
Ricker

[RadMan]

I don't know where you are getting your information, but this is simply untrue. Canada's healthcare system is one of the reasons that the UN consistently rates Canada as one of the best places in the world to live.Actually I get this from friends of mine that live in both countries. I've heard more complaints from UK than CA. I'll have to give you that. But no it is NOT untrue.

[RadMan]

ED
Electile Dysfunction----The inability to get it (enthusiasm) up for any candidate.

[BabyLutheran]

I will not be voting anytime in the forseeable future. What's the point?

[BabyLutheran]

Another politics question I have: are evangelicals and LCMS lutherans Republican because of their religion, or are they the religion they are because they are Republican?

lol j/k

BTW, I am Republican myself! lol

[DaRev]

I believe Christians in general are socially and politically conservative.

[BabyLutheran]

But Republicans aren't really conservative. They just say that to get the Christians to vote for them. Borrow and spend isn't very conservative.

I am not very good at explaining myself, but do you get my drift?

[DaRev]

But Republicans aren't really conservative. They just say that to get the Christians to vote for them. Borrow and spend isn't very conservative.

I am not very good at explaining myself, but do you get my drift?

Which is why I'm not Republican. I'm a registered Conservative. I agree with the social conservatism of the Republican party to a degree.

And whether it's "borrow and spend" or "tax and spend" the problem is the liberal concept of "spend". What this country needs right now is not lower taxes but lower spending. This is the only way to reduce the massive debt we have right now. If the president had the line item veto, it would drastically change how legislation is developed and implemented in this country. When the liberals in congress can attach 17 billion dollars of pork to a bill that the president has to sign, that's what has caused much of the debt we see now. The president can't veto everything.

[BabyLutheran]

I used to be lock step with the Republicans, but now I am a mixture of things. I am pro-life, including anti-death penalty now (all life is sacred point of view), but I also believe we should nationalize our health care system (France's is number 1 in the world). I am also for school vouchers, against unlimited illegal immigration, and may other conservative points of view.

I have never met anyone who was as mixed up politically as me. I really decry that either party would take anyone's vote for granted.

[DaRev]

I used to be lock step with the Republicans, but now I am a mixture of things. I am pro-life,

As am I.

including anti-death penalty now (all life is sacred point of view),

The death penalty is Scriptural.

but I also believe we should nationalize our health care system (France's is number 1 in the world).

I believe their tax rate is also number one in the world. I hold to a free market, competitive view of business, including health care. Minimal gov't regulation.

I am also for school vouchers,

Amen!! Preach it brother!! Another place where competiton would be beneficial. Our public schools are cesspools.

against unlimited illegal immigration,

I'm against ANY illegal immigration. Key word - illegal.

[BabyLutheran]

I take the commandment to say thou shall not kill, not thou shall not murder. I also think that there is too much of a chance that someone innocent may be put to death.

I think it's more consistent to be pro-life all the way. Just my opinion. I won't argue that you are wrong about it.

On the unlimited thing, I used the term sarcastically! I think the liberals are for unlimited immigration, illegal or not!

I am already paying 15% of my income for health care. I am just glad I never use the insurance for anything serious. I can't imagine what it would cost me then.

[DaRev]

I take the commandment to say thou shall not kill, not thou shall not murder. I also think that there is too much of a chance that someone innocent may be put to death.

But there is a difference between killing someone for protection and killing someone because you don't like them or to rob them or because you don't like the color of their shoes or whatever. That is the Biblical distinction. Defending oneself, whether in war or in your home, is not part of the 5th Commandment.

[Jim47]

All the candidates look the same to me. All the Republicans look the same, and all the Democrats look the same. And they all suck.

Ukrainian politics is much more entertaining...they have fistfights in Parliament, for heaven's sake...


I'm thinking that fist fights would be a lot more civilized then what we have ^_^

I am at an absolute loss to understand what Romney's views on the Trinity have to do with his abilities as a leader?

What has happened to the doctrine of Two Kingdoms in Lutheranism?

We're not electing a theologian-in-chief.

Kepler


I'm not exactly thrilled about having a Morman as President either, but I fully agree with you. It would be rather rediculous to think that the Morman church ethics would enter into any legislation that could be passed, thats why we have check and balances of three branches of federal governmet, of course, right now all three suck ^_^

Socialized medicine will never work in this country. There would be no checks to keep costs at bay. What is necessary is healthy competition with fair government regulations. The same needs to be done with our schools. The government run public schools are cesspools, in my opinion.

I liked the idea that I heard a number of years ago, to allow doctors to operate tax free if a certain percentage of their patients were low income and indigent.


I agree government run health care would be a big expensive mess and a joke :eek:

What we really need to fix our health care system is to outlaw legal practice to the medical profession, after all if someone has done something wrong then throw them in jail. Law suits have done no good for anyone.

i am for Romney...too bad -- he has morals and is willing to work for our country -- mccain is too old for the job -- huckabee likes to raise taxes -- ron paul is more of a libertarian...and i would not vote for the democrats if my life depended on it


Its not much to pick from, but I agree Romney is the best choice we have, or should I say the least objectionable :scratch:



I take the commandment to say thou shall not kill, not thou shall not murder. I also think that there is too much of a chance that someone innocent may be put to death.

I think it's more consistent to be pro-life all the way. Just my opinion. I won't argue that you are wrong about it.

.


You just need to do more bible study. God never took away governments right to deal with the likes of people who murder, kidnap and rape. Of course if we actually had real prisons where they did hard time and were never let out again that too would help.

But there is a difference between killing someone for protection and killing someone because you don't like them or to rob them or because you don't like the color of their shoes or whatever. That is the Biblical distinction. Defending oneself, whether in war or in your home, is not part of the 5th Commandment.

:thumbsup:

[BabyLutheran]

But there is a difference between killing someone for protection and killing someone because you don't like them or to rob them or because you don't like the color of their shoes or whatever. That is the Biblical distinction. Defending oneself, whether in war or in your home, is not part of the 5th Commandment.
I agree, killing someone to protect is ok.

But I still am not keen on the death penalty. Put them at hard labor for life without parole.

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Just a quick word on universal health care...

I'm Canadian. We have a good system up here. It is affordable, and for the most part thanks to all of the Medical Schools (each province has at least one) and all the teaching Hospitals, medical care is state of the art.

The problem comes when the "Liberals" convince the poor and the elderly that the "Conservatives" want to take it away, or reduce it gradually to next to nothing. Then the "Liberals get elected or re-elected, and have to [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth] a whole lot of money at it to prove how much better health care is under their administration.

It's the same deal with education. Our public school teachers are the most over-paid, and under-worked in the world (at least in Ontario). Tell everyone how bad things have gotten, get elected, and spend a few billion.

Health and Education are the purview of each Province, but each Province receives "transfer payments" from the feds. The feds have some control, at least as far as the transfers go, but not much.

There are good models and bad models throughout the world, if you guys do your homework, I think It could work for you also.

Be forewarned, the politics that I talked about are part and parcel with any Universal Health Care programm outside Communism.

Mark

:preach:Just a note to the wise: our dear neighbors, and knowledgable friends in the U. S. A. warned us about the legal ramifications of having a constitution. We ratified it anyway, and passed our "Bill of Rights and Freedoms". Jurists here in Canada have been reaping the rewards ever since, as have the executive of "special interest groups" who know how to milk those who they claim to serve. The old BNA act worked just fine, but our former Prime Minister Brian Mulrooney had to make a place for himself in History.:sigh:

Funny how he is remembered for the Airbus Scandal.:sorry:^_^

[Lupinus]

But I still am not keen on the death penalty. Put them at hard labor for life without parole.
The death penalty itself is scriptural.

[BabyLutheran]

There are a lot of old testament "scriptural" practices that we don't do anymore. For some reason, the death penalty is not one of them.

[DaRev]

There are a lot of old testament "scriptural" practices that we don't do anymore. For some reason, the death penalty is not one of them.

It has to do with the differences between the Civil Law, the Ceremonial Law, and the Moral Law.

The Ceremonial Law, the rituals and observances designed to point to the coming of the Christ, were fulfilled when Christ came.

[BabyLutheran]

Is stoning a woman to death for adultery ok? It's scriptural....

Reading the bible, I think we must take it as a whole, not cherry pick old testament verses to justify things.

Believe me, people who commit horrible crimes should be punished severely, I just don't think the death penalty is the way.

Call me liberal if you want, I don't consider myself a liberal.

[DaRev]

Is stoning a woman to death for adultery ok?

I wouldn't advocate it, and it is no longer a punishment for that particular offense in today's culture, but it was the law at that time. Civil laws do vary by time and culture.

[RevCowboy]

Just a quick word on universal health care...

I'm Canadian. We have a good system up here. It is affordable, and for the most part thanks to all of the Medical Schools (each province has at least one) and all the teaching Hospitals, medical care is state of the art.

The problem comes when the "Liberals" convince the poor and the elderly that the "Conservatives" want to take it away, or reduce it gradually to next to nothing. Then the "Liberals get elected or re-elected, and have to [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth] a whole lot of money at it to prove how much better health care is under their administration.

It's the same deal with education. Our public school teachers are the most over-paid, and under-worked in the world (at least in Ontario). Tell everyone how bad things have gotten, get elected, and spend a few billion.

Health and Education are the purview of each Province, but each Province receives "transfer payments" from the feds. The feds have some control, at least as far as the transfers go, but not much.

There are good models and bad models throughout the world, if you guys do your homework, I think It could work for you also.

Be forewarned, the politics that I talked about are part and parcel with any Universal Health Care programm outside Communism.

Mark

:preach:Just a note to the wise: our dear neighbors, and knowledgable friends in the U. S. A. warned us about the legal ramifications of having a constitution. We ratified it anyway, and passed our "Bill of Rights and Freedoms". Jurists here in Canada have been reaping the rewards ever since, as have the executive of "special interest groups" who know how to milk those who they claim to serve. The old BNA act worked just fine, but our former Prime Minister Brian Mulrooney had to make a place for himself in History.:sigh:

Funny how he is remembered for the Airbus Scandal.:sorry:^_^

Our Education system here is Alberta is pretty good, but unlike Ontario our teachers are overworked. I wouldn't say underpaid, but classrooms are full and teachers have a lot of responsibilities.

I am with you on Health Care!!!! I am glad there is more than just me taking up the cause. Although I think universal health care works with smaller populations. If you look at all the places were it does work, populations are less than 50 or 80 million. And the places is really works, like Norway, their popular is 4 million.

Since we are talking about politics Mark,... Do wish their was a "None of the Above" options on ballots? I really can't stand any political parties in Canada, if I had voted recently, I would have voted NDP in Alberta because a vote for them here is like "None of the Above" because they have no chance.

[Izdaari]

I agree with those who say Romney is the least objectionable choice, but I still prefer McCain over any Democrat. And unless something changes fast, we likely are stuck with McCain as the nominee. The bright side of that is he polls far better against Clinton or Obama than Romney does.

If McCain is smart, he'll pick someone for Veep who the conservatives in the party like and trust, very much unlike himself. That'll go far to unify the party, which will be important in November. And because of his age, it'll have to be somebody fully qualified to take over. Probably not Huckabee; social conservatives like him, but economic conservatives don't. My suggestions would be Newt Gingrich or Condi Rice.

Full disclosure: I am not a Republican or conservative, but a hawkish libertarian who usually votes Republican as the lesser evil.

[Willy]

I don't know where you are getting your information, but this is simply untrue. Canada's healthcare system is one of the reasons that the UN consistently rates Canada as one of the best places in the world to live.
Thanks for confusing us with the facts. I appreciate your perspective.

[DaRev]

Coni Rice would be a good VP choice. Gingrich carries too much baggage. I always thought that Bush should have dropped Cheney from the ticket in 04 and run with Rice then.

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Since we are talking about politics Mark,... Do wish their was a "None of the Above" options on ballots? I really can't stand any political parties in Canada, if I had voted recently, I would have voted NDP in Alberta because a vote for them here is like "None of the Above" because they have no chance.

"None of the Above" is not an option. I believe that St. Augustine advocated choosing "the lesser of two (or more) evils". When there is no one suitable on the ballot, we must vote for the one that is going to be the least harmful, least dangerous, least amoral etc. in hopes that we can block an even more dangerous person from taking office.

Here in ontario, there is a group of us, mostly from rural background, who tend to be Conservative in nature, but we have no party affiliation. We have always been fond of "Ralph", your past Premier. Yes... he was a bit of a buffoon, but a likeable one. He was franker than he should have been, but you knew where he stood. No surprises.

Mike Harris, here in ontario was the same, except he was much more polished than Ralph.

From an entertainment stand point, you have to give the highest marks to Bill Vanderzalm, former premier of BC. I don't believe there has ever been a provincial premier who lent himself to the mockery of the "Canadian Air Farce" as well as Bill did. I miss him too.

There have been many others both Provincialy and Federally, but good, bad, or indifferent, we do seem to survive.

With regard to the NDP; you may recall that they formed the Government in Ontario at one time. They were not popular, no one took them seriously so the only ones who would run were the unemployed, single moms, and college students. They were elected to a majority by a protest vote! :eek::doh:They spent us into a hole that we are only now crawling out of. :sigh:In this case, the "NONE OF THE ABOVE" option may have helped.:scratch:

Mark

[RadMan]

Coni Rice would be a good VP choice. Gingrich carries too much baggage. I always thought that Bush should have dropped Cheney from the ticket in 04 and run with Rice then.I agree with that. Rice should have been on someones VP ticket this current election. She has vast experience in foreign policy and that is lacking in many of the candidates. Hopefully some candidate will surprise us with that news in the next year.

[dinkime]

NT for capital punishment -- Romans 13:4 -- those in charge have been placed for a reason, and they are to "bring punishment on the wrongdoer" this is about using force to maintain order (including capital punishment)

[Studeclunker]

Why is it that every election the Republicans have a chance, they always pick a group of people that the public chooses because the Dems have such flaming liberals or amoral jerks (either of the Clintons). I mean, let's face it, if Hillary gets elected as president... I think I'll leave the country.:sigh: :( Obama, I could tolerate, he's a Muslim, and liberal, but I could tolerate that. At least the man has some morals and scruples. Hillary is one of the most openly amoral individuals I've ever seen in office. The thought of her as president scares the living Hell out of me!

[WanderingKaiser]

I have lost faith in the Republican Party, and the faith still isn't there. I am/will be supporting Senator Barack Obama ("support" since I can't vote...directly).

However, if Obama doesn't get the nomination, then I'd go for anyone the Republicans give out (who I'm hoping is going to be McCain). Hillary Clinton will mess up the United States, in my opinion.

Religion doesn't play a role in personal politics. I believe in the Separation of Church and State mainly because Christ is a personal option and I don't think we should force our views/beliefs on the non-Christians of America (about 25% of us). Also, I believe that anything else besides this would violate the Bill of Rights when it states that (paraphrasing) the government should not put in place a State religion.

Maybe that's just my liberal side talking, but hey, what do you expect from a liberal?

[BabyLutheran]

NT for capital punishment -- Romans 13:4 -- those in charge have been placed for a reason, and they are to "bring punishment on the wrongdoer" this is about using force to maintain order (including capital punishment)
So is blessed are the merciful, for they shall be shown mercy.

[Studeclunker]

Is stoning a woman to death for adultery ok? It's scriptural....

Reading the bible, I think we must take it as a whole, not cherry pick old testament verses to justify things.

Believe me, people who commit horrible crimes should be punished severely, I just don't think the death penalty is the way.

Call me liberal if you want, I don't consider myself a liberal.

Actually, the law stated that both the woman and her lover should be stoned. However, for some reason, the man always seems to have gotten off.

We still have no ability to re-programme peoples minds. Caging a human being is no answer either. It's really more humane to do away with a murderer or rapist than to attempt to reform them. The prison system isn't a viable reformitory. Never has been. By the by, do you know that it costs over fifty thousand a year to support and keep a prisoner in a maximum security prison? We have THOUSANDS of people in max. sec. prisons. Is this burden fair on the general public just because a minority don't belive in the death penalty?

The Lord is always wisest. He forsaw that we wouldn't be able to reform these people. He forsaw that it would be a burden to support them. He also didn't condone caging or enslaving people. Releasing these crimminals was absolutely unacceptable, therefore the only option left... was to kill them.

If an innocent person gets convicted of a capital crime, I would hope they're Christian. For to live is to serve and to die is gain, as one is with the Lord as soon as their eyes close in this world.

[DaRev]

Obama isn't a Muslim.

[BabyLutheran]

Yeah, majority rules...that's always a great reason for us to do something.

[porterross]

I agree that Condi as a VP would help keep McCain grounded and in line with conservative thinking. As for foreign policy knowledge, she stands alone unless Colin Powell would consider becoming active again.

[Izdaari]

We still have no ability to re-programme peoples minds. Caging a human being is no answer either. It's really more humane to do away with a murderer or rapist than to attempt to reform them. The prison system isn't a viable reformitory. Never has been.I haven't heard that it's impossible to reform murderers or rapists, only child molesters. The three year recidivism rate for homicide is 46%, for rape 41%. That's lower than for many other crimes, including drunk driving (51%).

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/abstract/rpr94.htm

By the by, do you know that it costs over fifty thousand a year to support and keep a prisoner in a maximum security prison? We have THOUSANDS of people in max. sec. prisons. Is this burden fair on the general public just because a minority don't belive in the death penalty?In the US at least, it's even more expensive (http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:kpKvmYSVOQMJ:deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php%3Fdid%3D108%26scid%3D7+cost+of+execution+life+prison&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us) to execute them.

The Lord is always wisest. He forsaw that we wouldn't be able to reform these people. He forsaw that it would be a burden to support them. He also didn't condone caging or enslaving people. Releasing these crimminals was absolutely unacceptable, therefore the only option left... was to kill them.Saul of Tarsus had been a murderer. Yet the Lord was able to make use of him. So I guess divine intervention to turn their lives around is an option too.

[porterross]

Moses and David had quite the résumés as well.

The death penalty bothers me. It always has.

[WanderingKaiser]

Obama, I could tolerate, he's a Muslim

Obama is a Christian from the United Church of Christ. There's a video of him saying that the "Spirit of the Lord is in each and every one of us, regardless of our religion" (during a talk about accepting various religious groups in the USA). This is a strictly anti-Muslim teaching and is as heretical to Muslims as saying that Jesus isn't God to Christians.

[LutheranChick]

McCain isn't going to choose either Romney or Huckabee, I posit. I think he'll tap Rudy and that's the reason Rudy dropped from the race.

I'm not a McCain fan...I agree that he's really too old for the job. We need fresh blood in the White House...someone that hasn't been on the Hill for ages.

I had a thought about Obama and Clinton the other night. If it comes true, I'll be scared. (:D)

I think that which ever gets the nomination will tap the other...most likely Obama tapping Clinton. Then, 6 months to a year into the term, Obama will die from "mysterious means".

And I hope I'll never get tapped for libel...it was just a thought...

Kae

I highly doubt that Giuliani (sp?) will get the VP if McCain gets the nomination. He will want to pick someone from the 'further right' to get the votes of the 'more conservative' Republicans.

IMO, McCain/Giuliani would be political suicide. I for one would either stay home or vote for a 3rd party candidate. If McCain paired with either Romney or Huckabee, I would have to consider voting for him.

[Studeclunker]

In the US at least, it's even more expensive (http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:kpKvmYSVOQMJ:deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php%3Fdid%3D108%26scid%3D7+cost+of+execution+life+prison&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us) to execute them.

Saul of Tarsus had been a murderer. Yet the Lord was able to make use of him. So I guess divine intervention to turn their lives around is an option too.

The execution itself is far less expensive than keeping the individual alive fifteen or more years. As to the cost of getting there... The process has been made so difficult and expensive by the anti-death penalty lobbies. Oddly, the American people are largely in favour of the death penalty. We have a minority of people who are determined to impress their will on the rest of the country, though.

As to Saul of Tarsus (or later the apostle Paul) I beg to differ. Yes, he was responsible for the deaths of, literally hundreds, of Christians. Nevertheless, he was not a murderer. An executioner perhaps. Remember, the man was acting with the authority of the ruling political leaders. Therefore, murderer as a title or label, is a streach. A better example would have been King David.

I stand corrected with Obama. Still, with such a comment as you quoted,
Obama is a Christian from the United Church of Christ. There's a video of him saying that the "Spirit of the Lord is in each and every one of us, regardless of our religion" (during a talk about accepting various religious groups in the USA).
is anti-thetical to Christianity as well. Never forget what Christ said: I am the way, the truth, and the light. There is no other way to the Father save through me. If one is a Christian, than no other religion is valid. That door was slammed by Christ himself. Unless of course, Obama was referring to Christian religions.

[BabyLutheran]

The majority are pro abortion too. I guess we shouldnt let the vocal minorities have their way.

[Till]

Civil laws do vary by time and culture.

Exactly. And the death penalty is cruel and unnecessary. It is time the US would stop it and come out of this awful companionship with the likes of China, Saudi Arabia and Iran.

By the way: the early church was generally opposing death penalty and found taking human life to be incompatible with the life and teachings of Jesus. Only after Christianity became the religion of the Roman Empire opposition to the death penalty declined.

[LutheranMafia]

The bright side of that is he polls far better against Clinton or Obama than Romney does.
McCain is clearly undefeatable if he gets the nomination. He polls at nearly 60% approval rating among DEMOCRATS. To pick anyone else other than McCain is to give the democrats a fighting chance, when they would not against McCain.

[CaliforniaJosiah]

Some thoughts from a second time voter....


1. At least where I live, Bush's approval ratings are in the negatives, and the whole Republican Party is in the dumps with him. The war is extremely unpopular. The economy is considered in the tank. Even some of the Republicans (when they can be found) don't seem to have much good to say about the Republicans.

2. Nationally, polls aside, I think the ONLY Democrat that could actually loose this would be Clinton. All the Democrates will vote for her but they are no longer a majority of the voters. She's VERY polarizing and no one but diehard Democrates seem to like her. I don't think ANY Republican could defeat Obama. He has little record to run again, he is as slippery as they come - able to talk about "change" and never tell anyone what that means (and he gets away with it). He's nice. He's likeable. The press seems to have already crowded him. To vote against him is to be a racist. I think a lot of Republicans would vote for him.


3. It seems to be basically down to McCain or Romney. I'm not excited about EITHER. Romney is considered to be the more conservative of the two and the only one with any administrative experience. On paper, he looks very smart and capable. He seems to be a far better campaigner - or at least he jsut comes across on TV as smarter, more likeable, more in tune. McCain comes across as a very old Washington insider. I DO think some men (especially of my Dad's generation) like him. He is kind of a "man's man" and my Dad talks about his Vietnam experience (my Dad was an officer during the Vietnam War) but most voters weren't alive during that war and that talk just makes it obvious how old he is.


3. I don't know what the polls say of a McCain/Clinton election; I suspect McCain MIGHT have a slight chance there, maybe better than Romney. I guess he appeals to the independents more. NOT EVEN JESUS could defeat Obama.


4. I voted for Romney. No one I know did. My Dad voted for McCain as did my bro. My Mom and Sis are now independent and aren't voting in the primaries, but my Mom is for Clinton and my sis is for NO ONE and has concluded this whole election is pretty meaningless.



My $0.005





.

[BabyLutheran]

I hate to say it, but I have given up and will not vote.

[DaRev]

NOT EVEN JESUS could defeat Obama.

Let's not get blasphemous here.

[LutheranMafia]

NOT EVEN JESUS could defeat Obama.
Obama can't even win the black vote. The democrats have formed a firing squad in a circle.

[BabyLutheran]

It is so funny to watch. Never have the Republicans been so vulnerable, and the Dems are down to two unelectable people.

All they had to do was pick a decent moderate, and they would have easily won.

[Edial]

I am at an absolute loss to understand what Romney's views on the Trinity have to do with his abilities as a leader?

What has happened to the doctrine of Two Kingdoms in Lutheranism?

We're not electing a theologian-in-chief.

Kepler
It is my personal view.

I would vote "no" against anyone who is against Christianity.

Thanks,
Ed

[Edial]

McCain isn't going to choose either Romney or Huckabee, I posit. I think he'll tap Rudy and that's the reason Rudy dropped from the race...
If he would choose Guiliani I would be surprised.

Giuliani does not work well when assisting someone and so is McCain.

I see Giuliani as too strong of a leader to fit into a VP position.

Huckabee however, should fit well into that position.
But what do I know. :)

[Edial]

Romney is saying he will change Washington.
OK. Sounds good.

However, to "change Washington" is a big job.
It is a time of war and the economy needs attention.

One would not have time to change Washington.

I also hear another candidate was saying he wants to abolish IRS. Another full time project.

Romney looks really good on TV and he is very eloquent.
Yet, I do not believe him.

Thanks,
Ed

[Izdaari]

The execution itself is far less expensive than keeping the individual alive fifteen or more years. As to the cost of getting there... The process has been made so difficult and expensive by the anti-death penalty lobbies. Oddly, the American people are largely in favour of the death penalty. We have a minority of people who are determined to impress their will on the rest of the country, though.

As to Saul of Tarsus (or later the apostle Paul) I beg to differ. Yes, he was responsible for the deaths of, literally hundreds, of Christians. Nevertheless, he was not a murderer. An executioner perhaps. Remember, the man was acting with the authority of the ruling political leaders. Therefore, murderer as a title or label, is a streach. A better example would have been King David.

I stand corrected with Obama. Still, with such a comment as you quoted,

is anti-thetical to Christianity as well. Never forget what Christ said: I am the way, the truth, and the light. There is no other way to the Father save through me. If one is a Christian, than no other religion is valid. That door was slammed by Christ himself. Unless of course, Obama was referring to Christian religions.
Those are fair points about the cost of the death penalty, and about Saul aka Paul. :thumbsup:

But the quote in reference to Obama is not from me, but from WanderingKaiser. Nor would I put it the way Obama did, because it leaves him open to the criticism you just made. I hope he was speaking hastily and that wasn't actually what he meant... but in electing a President, I'm more concerned about the soundness of his politics, not his theology.

[Ukrainia]

I believe it's going to come to Obama and McCain. Hillary is too unlikable and while the "Super Tuesday" results will probably place Obama and Hillary in a dead heat, Obama will keep on gaining in the polls. Unless something unlikely happens McCain will win the Republican nomination, which when considering he wasn't popular at all only a few months ago is really surprising.

In a presidential election, I'd give Obama the slight edge. Although I'd disagree with whoever said he would get a percentage of the Republican vote. He's way too liberal. The vast majority of Republicans and Democrats vote along party lines and I'm not sure why it would be different in the coming year.

[Edial]

I believe it's going to come to Obama and McCain. Hillary is too unlikable and while the "Super Tuesday" results will probably place Obama and Hillary in a dead heat, Obama will keep on gaining in the polls. Unless something unlikely happens McCain will win the Republican nomination, which when considering he wasn't popular at all only a few months ago is really surprising.

In a presidential election, I'd give Obama the slight edge. Although I'd disagree with whoever said he would get a percentage of the Republican vote. He's way too liberal. The vast majority of Republicans and Democrats vote along party lines and I'm not sure why it would be different in the coming year.
Hey, welcome to TCL. :)

Are you from Ukraine by any chance?

Ed

[Ukrainia]

No but I've been there twice to help teach vacation Bible school...and any variation of it can be used as an amazing username!

[Edial]

No but I've been there twice to help teach vacation Bible school...and any variation of it can be used as an amazing username!
I was born there and lived in Odessa until I was 15.

Good to meet you. :)

Ed

[dinkime]

i did not know you were born in ukraine, ed! learn something new everyday! i have been to ukraine twice as well (same program as ukrainia)

[Ukrainia]

I was born there and lived in Odessa until I was 15.

Good to meet you. :)

Ed
That's cool. I've been to Sevastopol, which was very scenic and interesting - and from the map I looked at is moderately close to Odessa.

Kiev, Zhytomer, and Radomyschyl were also nice.

[LutheranChick]

No but I've been there twice to help teach vacation Bible school...and any variation of it can be used as an amazing username!
Did you meet any of Michael Smith's family- if you were there this year teaching VBS? Uhh- 2007, I meant!

[Edial]

That's cool. I've been to Sevastopol, which was very scenic and interesting - and from the map I looked at is moderately close to Odessa.

Kiev, Zhytomer, and Radomyschyl were also nice.
You've been to more Ukrainian cities than I have. :D :)

[Edial]

i did not know you were born in ukraine, ed! learn something new everyday! i have been to ukraine twice as well (same program as ukrainia)
Yes. :) When it was a part of Soviet Union it was common for people to call USSR Russia.
When USSR broke up, the countries that were part of it regained it's identity.

I still feel "funny" saying that I was born in Ukraine, but I was. :)

[dinkime]

Did you meet any of Michael Smith's family- if you were there this year teaching VBS? Uhh- 2007, I meant!

i love michael smith's family! katherine is my buddy from both trips!

That's cool. I've been to Sevastopol, which was very scenic and interesting - and from the map I looked at is moderately close to Odessa.

Kiev, Zhytomer, and Radomyschyl were also nice.

i have been to kiev, oleksandria (2005) and chernihiv (2007)

i am still trying to figure out WHO you are from the trip, ukrainia!

[LutheranChick]

i love michael smith's family! katherine is my buddy from both trips!



They are wonderful people, arent they- The entire family. Kin & Carolyn raised some great kids, who in turn also raised some great kids!

[Flipper]

I hope you are all proud of me - I haven't commented on politics even once. :D

I do have a story to share. It's rather sad. My 9 year old niece's father kind of went off the deep end a few years ago, moved 300 miles away, joined a church that believes that if Jesus appears before you and says something, and everyone else in the church believes that really happened, than whether you think Jesus says becomes like canon. We are guessing he's Third Wave Pentecostal, but we don't know for sure. All I know is that ever since he got involved in that, his IQ has regressed.

Anyway, at her most recent visitation with him, he told her that Obama is a Muslim, and that no one should vote for him because if he becomes president he will bomb us and we will all die.

The stupidity of the man never ceases to amaze me. The scary part is that there are quite a few people who actually believe that. :scratch:

The saddest part was that earlier in that week, she witnessed her best friend (or as she calls her, her BFFFFFFFFFFFFFF) be called the N-word in front of a neighbor. She happens to be bi-racial. So in the same week, my poor sister had to explain racism AND convince her that Obama is not going to bomb us.

[Edial]

I hope you are all proud of me - I haven't commented on politics even once. :D

I do have a story to share. It's rather sad. My 9 year old niece's father kind of went off the deep end a few years ago, moved 300 miles away, joined a church that believes that if Jesus appears before you and says something, and everyone else in the church believes that really happened, than whether you think Jesus says becomes like canon. We are guessing he's Third Wave Pentecostal, but we don't know for sure. All I know is that ever since he got involved in that, his IQ has regressed.

Anyway, at her most recent visitation with him, he told her that Obama is a Muslim, and that no one should vote for him because if he becomes president he will bomb us and we will all die.

The stupidity of the man never ceases to amaze me. The scary part is that there are quite a few people who actually believe that. :scratch:

The saddest part was that earlier in that week, she witnessed her best friend (or as she calls her, her BFFFFFFFFFFFFFF) be called the N-word in front of a neighbor. She happens to be bi-racial. So in the same week, my poor sister had to explain racism AND convince her that Obama is not going to bomb us.
Hey Flipper, good seeing you again.

Yeah, how come you were not commenting on politics?
But I do not blame you.

For some of us here politics becomes the "Third Wave Pentecostal" thing that your family encountered.
Some of our IQs also go down. :liturgy:

Good thing you avoid politics. At least trying to.

Ed

[BigNorsk]

Well things went pretty smoothly yesterday. I was in charge of running one of the caucus sites. It wasn't what you think of a caucus but was really a ballot vote, it was called a caucus as contrasted with a primary, because a primary is an election run by the state and a caucus is run by the parties.

I can see we need to do more publicity next time, but the location worked well.

Clinton carried the district but Obama the state.

The Universities just came out in swarms for Obama. Matter of fact, Obama had significantly more votes than the total of all votes cast in Republican caucuses. Overall about twice as many voted in Democratic caucuses than Republican, this in a state historically dominated by Republicans.

We had 266 Democrats in the District, I heard the Republicans had about 20.

Next stop District coventions.

Marv

[BabyLutheran]

It seems like the kids want a "change". Just hope it's a change for the better.

[Studeclunker]

Hillary Clinton as President a change for the better (shudders)????:eek:

[BabyLutheran]

Hillary Clinton as President a change for the better (shudders)????:eek:
No, it's Obama's constant mantra.

A man with 2 years in the Senate

[LutheranChick]

Even thought I know he doesn't have a chance I still like Huckabee. Throwing out the IRS - now THAT'S a change!!!

[BabyLutheran]

Maybe that would be a real sign from God that I need to become a pastor. I am a CPA, and without the IRS, I wouldn't have a job! lol

[LutheranChick]

Maybe that would be a real sign from God that I need to become a pastor. I am a CPA, and without the IRS, I wouldn't have a job! lol

There you go! Our pastor went into the seminary after he lost his business, due to someone that stole from him.

[RevCowboy]

As a Canadian, I have to say that American presidential primaries are the most confusing way to pick presidential nominees possible.

Why can't "y'all" just vote on one day? Why the long drawn out process with the huge cost? How much are Clinton and Obama spending their campaigns just to get nominated?

[BabyLutheran]

Both parties spend enough to pay for a lot of uninsured people to have health care!

I agree, the whole process sickens me.

[LutheranChick]

Both parties spend enough to pay for a lot of uninsured people to have health care!

I agree, the whole process sickens me.

I wish there would be a limit (a small one) to how much the candidates could spend, so that we can choose between who is most qualified, and not who has the most $ to run a campaign.

[CaliforniaJosiah]

Obama seems to have one stand on everything: CHANGE! (Now, if we just knew to what - and how?) On a personal note, he seems to be very likable, a good public speaker (maybe he should have been a Baptist preacher - he sounds like that), and he does "connect" to the crowds. But everything he says is complete void of any meaning. His ability to stir up people around his personality with zero substance is kinda scary. He actually spooks me a bit.


Clinton is just an 'old-school' liberal democrat, with no charm and no experience in anything but forgiving husbands, fruitless promotion of health care, being a woman without seeming like it. The ONLY reason I'd have for voting for her is to see how Bill behaves back in the White House with ZERO power, the house husband leading tours, planning meals and promoting some cause (I doubt chasity).


Romney seems died after Super Tuesday - even with all his own money. I voted for him, in spite of the flipflop in my #1 issue. He's very weak on the immigration issue, too. He has impressive acedemics, a good business background, he is the ONLY one running who can really say he's a "proven leader." The Mormon thing doesn't bother me. On the other hand (and yeah I KNOW this is terribly irrational of me), he just doesn't strike me as sincere - I get the impression he's a man who WANTS the White House and will say or do anything to get there. Maybe they are all like that (why else put up with this process?).


Huckabee is even weaker on the immigration issue and has some ideas that I think will lead him to be regarded as "weird" (even if maybe he has a point). He is the most socially conversative (and that IS my main concern), but I don't know that he has any experiencing actually doing anything about that. He seems to have little appeal outside of the Bible-Belt. There's not much experience. He doesn't seem to be much of a campaigner.


McCain. I guess Limbaugh and Dopson HATE HIS GUTS (and it's mutual). ON PAPER, he looks pretty good. He's just as weak as the democrats when it comes to immigration issues. He has a temper, can act rather unprofessionally, and can be pretty unpredictable. I gather the Republican "insiders" have never liked his "team spirit."



The USA has a VERY powerful chief executive system of government. This are critical times. I am AMAZED we continue as such a great nation when such are who runs for president.


For my first presidental election, I'm far from impressed.



.

[BigNorsk]

Don't worry about the flat tax. It supposedly replaces Social Security taxes too, but how do you assign benefits from Social Security without knowing what people make? You can't so a flat tax equals a flat payout in Social Security. What response do you expect when a large segment of society, that would be the mid Middle Class and up are told their Social Security will be significantly cut, but don't worry the people on the bottom will get more.

I don't think that balloon will fly.

Marv

[LutheranChick]

Don't worry about the flat tax. It supposedly replaces Social Security taxes too, but how do you assign benefits from Social Security without knowing what people make? You can't so a flat tax equals a flat payout in Social Security. What response do you expect when a large segment of society, that would be the mid Middle Class and up are told their Social Security will be significantly cut, but don't worry the people on the bottom will get more.

I don't think that balloon will fly.

Marv

If you are talking about Huckabee's proposal- it's not a flat tax. It's a consumption tax. I don't think it has anything to do with eliminating Social Security taxes either- at least I've never read about that. It's called the Fair Tax- you can find it if you google that I'm pretty sure.

[Lupinus]

I really don't know at this point.

Everyone with a snow balls chance scares the crap out of me. I can't stand 99% of democrats and none of the 1% I'm ok with are running.

On the republican side? McCain? Scary. Romney? Even more so. Bout the only guy running for the republicans that I like is Huckabee but seems he's all but toast.

[BigNorsk]

I'm quite up on it thanks. I didn't mean a flat income tax. Huckabee's been somewhat supportive of the so called Fair Tax which is a national sales tax on pretty much anything and everything consumed.

It's called a 23% sales tax but that is that 23 cents of each dollar is tax, effectively a 30% tax. And it's on everything. Health insurance, food, etc. But everyone gets a rebate up front. That rebates another problem you have to define households. Now we pretty well do it with income tax returns and who claims dependants. Having a dependant won't reduce your tax, being a dependant would mean you wouldn't get a rebate, but your parents would get a base rebate with a smaller amount for you. Well guess what, every kid is going to be independant at the earliest opportunity, they'll get paid for being independant.

Anyway. It replaces both income taxes and Social Security taxes. Part of the idea is we won't file an income tax return at all. That's fine, but Social Security benefits are based on what you pay in. You won't be paying anything in, just paying sales tax. So unless you change Social Security, benefits will go to zero. I'm not thinking that's going to fly, so that means that you have to go to some other criteria, either you just make it a welfare program based on need, which would be very difficult since we don't know if you are or aren't making money, or you just go to a flat rate. Can't afford maximum to everyone, so those getting the most or anticipating getting the most will get less. In any case, in my opinion, it will be treated like just about any other proposal that would end up greatly restructuring Social Security, dead.

Marv

[Lupinus]

I love the idea of the fair tax, and think it's much better then income based tax.

Cut out things which would be considered strict needs (food, housing, cloths, etc) and put a tax on the rest. Everyone gets taxed just the same that way.

One of the biggest arguments against it is that the rich wont get taxed fairly. How? If their money sits there it's just paper till they spend it. And when they spend it, they'll get taxed on it.

SS and rebates wouldn't be hard to do. File a financial report at the end of the year with your yearly salary just like now. That info stays stored for SS time, and if you make under a certain amount you maybe get some rebates.

Course, it could make it more likely to have 401k plans for all instead of SS. If everything we pay to SS was put into just a basic investment portfolio we would all retire VERY well off with enough money to last us a very long time.

[porterross]

Both parties spend enough to pay for a lot of uninsured people to have health care!

I agree, the whole process sickens me.


Ha! My daughter and I were discussing that very thing last night. It's a disgustingly selfish and wasteful process that does everything contrary to the proposed promises to help those in need. :sick:

[Edial]

I think McCain is a better choice of them all.

He is a Washington man and knows how to fit there.
he did not make unrealistic promises like to "change Washington" or "abolish IRS".

Although he has the temper, he also knows how to adapt, since he knows Washington.

He should be strong against terrorism.

Economy? I do not know what he will do. But obviously, every President wants a good economy.

I see his biggest problem as ultra-conservative Republicans who will not relent and could actually do some damage in the long run by prodding McCain to walk away from them.

In order for McCain to be effective he needs to be honed not bashed. He has a temper and will bite back.

I do not expect much from McCain, but he knows how the system works.

We'll see.

Thanks,
Ed

[CaliforniaJosiah]

What I've gathered from James Dopson and Rush Limbaugh (and the dittoheads of both) is that if McCain gets the nod, they are staying home (removing even the miracle chance that a Republican could get elected). Limbaugh hasn't said anything good about Hackabee either.

Here's the way I see it: In this year when the Republicans need a Reagan or Eisenhower, what we got even the Republicans don't like and probably won't vote for (and we are like 30% of the American voters).

And one thing seems certain about McCain - he will be what he is; he's NOT going to do anything to try to at least rally the Republicans behind him (like him or hate him for that - it's just what the way he is).

IMHO, we can only HOPE the Dems nominate Hillary (cuz I think she less dangerous than Obama) and that she self-destructs after one term (and NO surpreme court judges die or retire during that term) - but don't count on it. She strikes me as one tough chick.


.

[Izdaari]

IMHO, we can only HOPE the Dems nominate Hillary (cuz I think she less dangerous than Obama) and that she self-destructs after one term (and NO surpreme court judges die or retire during that term) - but don't count on it. She strikes me as one tough chick.
Of the two of them, I prefer Obama. I think he's honest and sincere, and trying to make a difference. He's far too liberal, and very inexperienced. But he's not the Don of the "Arkansas Mafia". I don't think he knows how to do as much damage as Hillary would.

[DaRev]

I have to agree. If we have to live with a liberal in the White House, I'd rather it be Obama than to have Billary back there for another 4 years. :sick: But I think compared to either of them, even McCain is the lesser of three evils. :P

[porterross]

I don't know why we the citizens don't exercise our rights and demand that a more representative and responsible government be put in place. We're not as powerless as our elected officials would have us believe. ;)

[Flipper]

Hey Flipper, good seeing you again.

Yeah, how come you were not commenting on politics?
But I do not blame you.

For some of us here politics becomes the "Third Wave Pentecostal" thing that your family encountered.
Some of our IQs also go down. :liturgy:

Good thing you avoid politics. At least trying to.

Ed


I only avoid politics on Christian messageboards. ;)

[Edial]

I only avoid politics on Christian messageboards. ;)
Why? You behave "unChristian" when talking politics? :liturgy:

[Flipper]

Eventually it comes to that. LOL!

I just have some rather passionate views on some subjects, and I'll do ya'll a favor and keep them to myself.

[Edial]

Eventually it comes to that. LOL!

I just have some rather passionate views on some subjects, and I'll do ya'll a favor and keep them to myself.
Aaah ... charity. :liturgy:
This probably means you would have voted for someone like Brezhnev, Putin and even a moderate Gorbachev.
Da?

[BigNorsk]

I don't know why we the citizens don't exercise our rights and demand that a more representative and responsible government be put in place. We're not as powerless as our elected officials would have us believe. ;)

I find that kind of funny. People are begged and begged to get involved and they just don't. They won't show up for anything before voting, they won't give a dime to anyone they just won't do a thing. They won't take the heat of running either. Mostly they just complain that they don't like the choices.

Across this state over the next month, half the legislature will be picked. Most of the meetings where it happens will consider themselves fortunate if they have 30 people out of 12 to 14 thousand who are willing to take an evening off and attend a meeting to pick a candidate. In many places they won't even have a candidate that night but will spend several weeks trying to get someone to run.

Much of the reason that it is hard to get people to run is it will require many of them to spend many days and a fair amount of their own money to do it. That is unless they make an effort to contact all the PACs and other special interest groups to get money from them. That money goes mostly to whom the groups think will win. They hate to waste it.

So you end up with a legislature picked by a small group of people and who are beholding to all the groups that are there everyday with their lobbyists. Go figure.

And those people you beg and beg to please just help a little bit, just show up and have their vote among the small group? Oh, they sit home and complain they aren't being represented.

Now those representatives who don't seem that important guess where the statewide offices comes from about 90% of the time, yep right from that group. And national people, usually come from the statewide. And as you probably notice, almost every candidate for President held office as a Governor, or a Senator or a Representative.

What gets fed in at the bottom of the political ladder is reflected in what comes out the top. If you don't like the top. I would suggest you actually waste some of your time and go to your local conventions. Give your candidates a few dollars and maybe even help with their campaign. Then if and when you show up wanting or needing something or giving your representative a call, they will know you aren't just someone who only shows up to complain. You'll maybe not get what you want. But you will be represented.

Marv

[Flipper]

Aaah ... charity. :liturgy:
This probably means you would have voted for someone like Brezhnev, Putin and even a moderate Gorbachev.
Da?

нет!

Oh my goodness, not that far left. Besides, who actually voted during that time?

[Edial]

нет!

Oh my goodness, not that far left. Besides, who actually voted during that time?

Actually, in Soviet politics they were in the extreme right. :crosseo:

And sure, they voted ... with machine guns pointed at them and the other candidate praying to God that he himself never reaches double digits. :help:

Yet, Soviet atheists were getting "religious" when the big eye of the Communist Party is thinking you are making too many waves. :liturgy:

[Flipper]

Actually, in Soviet politics they were in the extreme right. :crosseo:

And sure, they voted ... with machine guns pointed at them and the other candidate praying to God that he himself never reaches double digits. :help:

Yet, Soviet atheists were getting "religious" when the big eye of the Communist Party is thinking you are making too many waves. :liturgy:

Thanks for the education on them being right. Then again, what is right and left here, isn't necessarily that way in other countries.

I know they voted, but is it really voting? There may not be good choices here, but at least we have choices, and can think for ourselves.

[Edial]

Thanks for the education on them being right. Then again, what is right and left here, isn't necessarily that way in other countries.

I know they voted, but is it really voting? There may not be good choices here, but at least we have choices, and can think for ourselves.
When I was young all I saw were these huge portraits of Brezhnev throughout the city.
No one knew who the other candidate was. :)

And if someone (some idealistic Soviet) would mention the name of the other candidate, the knee-jerk reaction of the general population would authomatically consider that poor chap some type of a subversive anti-communist.

They got an A in brainwashing.
They were very good at it.

Thanks, :)