Sacrament of Holy Communion

[maylor]

I’ve been thinking a lot about the Sacrament of Holy Communion lately. It seems to me that if we as Lutherans truly believe that the Real Presence of our Lord Jesus Christ is received in the sacrament, and I most certainly do, that we should get it more often than twice a month. This is the practice at my WELS church and I have read of other WELS churches that celebrate the Lord’s Supper only once a month! Also my church uses the individual plastic shot glass type cups, which I don’t mind, but not using the common cup for fear of contracting some illness seems to be doubting the truth of the doctrine of the Real Presence. If we our receiving the Real Presence of Christ in a worthy manner during the sacrament how could we possibly get sick from the common cup no matter what the health was of the person before us?

Below is a letter that I recently emailed to my pastor:

Hello Pastor,

I have a couple of questions about the Sacrament of Holy Communion and private confession that I would like to ask you.

We celebrate the Lord’s Supper at _______ the first and third Sundays of each month. Is this the practice of the WELS, or does the frequency of Holy Communion vary from church to church?

Is there a reason why we should not celebrate the Sacrament every Sunday? I know that it is not required for Salvation. I find myself yearning every week to receive the Real Presence and the blessing of physical and spiritual Communion with our Lord Jesus Christ and the forgiveness of sins and strengthening of Faith that it imparts.

I am new to Lutheranism and to our church and understand that I may be in error or that it may be inappropriate to celebrate the Lord’s Supper every week.

The evening before a Communion Sunday, _______ and I read the Preparation for Holy Communion, from the Lutheran Book of Prayer, and we’ve started saying the Prayer Before Holy Communion in the morning before we leave for church.

In Luther’s Small Catechism, in the section on confession, there is #268 What is the benefit of private confession and absolution?

I was wondering about your position on private confession. I assume that you would offer it to someone who requested it, but I don’t recall you speaking about it during our classes. Is private confession something you would encourage people to do or is it something that should just be made available to those who feel they need it?

________ Lutheran Church has been a great blessing to my family. We feel so fortunate to have been led to this church.

Thank you so much.

Regards,

M____________

[Melethiel]

It seems to me that if we as Lutherans truly believe that the Real Presence of our Lord Jesus Christ is received in the sacrament, and I most certainly do, that we should get it more often than twice a month.
I agree. We have it every week at my church.

I consider the Liturgy of the Sacrament to be an essential part of the Divine Service, and truly find it a sad state of affairs that many churches who purport to take the Sacrament seriously apparently don't value it enough to offer it every week.

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

Awesome. Absolutely awesome.

[LutheranHawkeye]

Our parish just started administering the sacrament of the altar weekly. It took our pastor 12 years, but he educated enough people to show them that the sacrament should be offered weekly. The older generation wouldn't budge until he showed them that technically communion at every divine service is the oldest and most beneficial way to go.

[DaRev]

My church used to have the Lord's Supper every other week, but changed it to every Sunday a few years ago. There are a few folks here that don't like it every week because they think it's not "special" anymore. One gentleman even said to me that weekly communion was "unLutheran." I explained to him that not only was it very Lutheran, it's something that more churches are going back to. The practice of infrequent communion has a couple of origins. One is that back in the early days of the Lutheran church in the US there would be itinerant preachers who would visit a number of congregations during the month. These churches couldn't celebrate the sacrament every week because they had no full time pastor and relied on these itinerant pastors. Another factor is that evangelical protestantism has infiltrated the Lutheran Church in the US over the years which has effected the practice of weekly communion. This also introduced the individual cups, a practice that came from good ol' Pastor Welch, a Methodist pastor who is the father of Welch's Grape Juice.
More and more churches are returning to a weekly communion practice.

[maylor]

Pastor and I had a brief phone conversation after he received my email. He said that the frequency of celebrating the Lord’s Supper varied in congregations and that the congregation itself determined how often it wanted to do it. He sounded like he would like to have Holy Communion every week , but that most of the members of our church were probably fine with the way things are and not interested in change. He said that he has Communed members privately by request and that he is willing to do that for us. When I mentioned this to my wife, she was hesitant and uncomfortable about requesting private Communion on non-Communion Sundays. Besides this, it was part of my understanding of our closed Communion practice that we are engaging in horizontal (with fellow believers) as well as vertical (with our Lord Jesus Christ) fellowship, and private Communion seems kind of inappropriate.

[DaRev]

Pastor and I had a brief phone conversation after he received my email. He said that the frequency of celebrating the Lord’s Supper varied in congregations and that the congregation itself determined how often it wanted to do it. He sounded like he would like to have Holy Communion every week , but that most of the members of our church were probably fine with the way things are and not interested in change. He said that he has Communed members privately by request and that he is willing to do that for us. When I mentioned this to my wife, she was hesitant and uncomfortable about requesting private Communion on non-Communion Sundays. Besides this, it was part of my understanding of our closed Communion practice that we are engaging in horizontal (with fellow believers) as well as vertical (with our Lord Jesus Christ) fellowship, and private Communion seems kind of inappropriate.

I would be leary of communing someone privately unless they weren't able to receive at the church for some reason (illness, hospitalized, shut-in, etc.). You are absolutely correct about the horizontal and vertical fellowship.

[porterross]

I agree with you wholeheartedly as do most other Lutherans I've talked to about, yet I get the same answer you did from pastors who don't offer it every week. Who really doesn't want to change it, I wonder?


I was told that Luther equated it to being as necessary as breathing? Is that true? :scratch:

[DaRev]

I was told that Luther equated it to being as necessary as breathing? Is that true? :scratch:

Das ist am meisten sicher wahr.

[porterross]

Das ist am meisten sicher wahr.
Then why isn't it offered with every service?

[DaRev]

Then why isn't it offered with every service?

Good question. It should be.

[porterross]

Do most clergy feel that way? If they do, why isn't it changed by educating their congregations?

[DaRev]

Yet another good question. Perhaps not all clergy believe that.

[porterross]

Surely they'd not be Lutheran then.

[BabyLutheran]

It's ironic, I think my church does it every week at both services because the majority of the congregation are "converts" to Lutheranism, so the pastors don't have to struggle with stubborn old Lutherans to do it every time! hehehehe

[synger]

In our church, we have it every week, but it alternates services. So one week the 8:00 service is communion, and the next week it's the 10:30 service. On fifth Sundays, we have Matins.

So if we wanted to, we could have communion every Sunday, just by attending alternate services. (Plus, we'd meet all those "other" members we usually only see at Sunday School and the picnic)

Pastor said once that when he first came to our church, they only had communion once in a while (not sure of the interval). He slowly got enough support so he could change it to the alternating schedule. It's a first step toward having it at both services every week. At least we're used to the idea that it's every week. Now to work on both services...

[LutheranChick]

At our church, Communion is offered once a month. A few years ago we had a Pastor that started offering Communion two Sundays per month which was fine with most of the congregation, although I remember noticing a few people who still only went once a month- change is VERY difficult for some people.

I am not even sure when we went back to monthly- but for our tiny little congregation, it is a matter of practicality. The lady who sets up communion (fills the cups, and then cleans up everything afterwards, and makes sure the silver is polished) is elderly and it would be tough on her to have to set it up every single Sunday, or even every-other Sunday. Let me repeat- our congregation is TINY - and everyone has a job- so it would be a burden on anyone to have to get everything set up every Sunday.

I don't think a congregation should be judged for how often Communion is offered. Whether it be every Sunday, or once a month, the important thing to judge is- Is the Gospel being preached every single Sunday?

Just my 2 cents...

[BabyLutheran]

I kind of agree in your situation, but if a church is the size of ours (400-500 average attendance), I can't think of a single reason not to commune every service.

[LutheranChick]

...Also my church uses the individual plastic shot glass type cups, which I don’t mind, but not using the common cup for fear of contracting some illness seems to be doubting the truth of the doctrine of the Real Presence. If we our receiving the Real Presence of Christ in a worthy manner during the sacrament how could we possibly get sick from the common cup no matter what the health was of the person before us?






I think in this day, with so much concern about communicable illnesses, it is not a bad idea to use individual cups. While I personally do not have a concern, not everyone feels this way. If a person is worried about catching something because of using the common cup, I would not want that person to avoid Communion for such a reason.

We went to the individual cups years ago. The new pastor at the time was uncomfortable with using the common cup, as he was afraid of possibly spilling, or not tipping the cup enough to be sure the communicant actually received wine. I know that one time, back when we still used the common cup, I did not get any wine, because of that. Of course my lips touched the wine from the remnant on the side of the cup, and I had the bread so I didn't think that I did not get communion, but I could see someone thinking that, if it happened to them.
Our congregation is so frugal that we wash and re-use the little plastic cups! Our pastor's wife thinks that is soooo silly - but hey, we're not gonna make any waves!

[BabyLutheran]

We have an intinction cup and a common cup. The server will hand the common cup to you if you reach for it, so you wouldn't have to worry about him spilling it. If you don't reach, he serves it to you himself.

Probably not the purists' way to do things, but it works for us!

[porterross]

I honestly think you would put yourself at risk using the individual cups (if it were possible). They are placed in the distribution tray by the rim and sometimes handled more than once and by more than one person.

Personally, I believe the blood of Christ isn't capable of harming anyone, but maybe that's just me.

[DaRev]

I know of no case where someone has contracted any type of disease, even a common cold, from receiving the Blood of Christ from a common cup. The alcohol in the wine plus the silver on the chalice have some antiseptic qualities. Besides, it is the Blood of Christ, and our Lord says "Whoever eats my flesh and drinks My blood has life."

I don't care for the "shot glasses" and I don't really care for non-metalic chalices, although if given the choice between those two, I'd take the chalice.

[BabyLutheran]

Plus the fact that the server wipes the rim off after each person drinks.

[DaRev]

Plus the fact that the server wipes the rim off after each person drinks.

...and slightly turns the cup each time, too.

[LutheranHawkeye]

What happens to the consecrated wine that is left over in the individual shot glasses and in the chalice. I know that the Pastor usually drinks what is left in the Chalice, but when cleaning the shot glasses and the Chalice there must surely be consecrated wine left in it. So is it inappropriate to clean the glasses in a sink that is hooked up to the regular sewage/water system, because I have seen this practice done before and I was disgusted by the mistreatment.

[LutheranChick]

Believe it or not, we pour it back into the bottle. (Did I happen to mention my congregation is very frugal?) :)

[DaRev]

What happens to the consecrated wine that is left over in the individual shot glasses and in the chalice. I know that the Pastor usually drinks what is left in the Chalice, but when cleaning the shot glasses and the Chalice there must surely be consecrated wine left in it. So is it inappropriate to clean the glasses in a sink that is hooked up to the regular sewage/water system, because I have seen this practice done before and I was disgusted by the mistreatment.

If it is left over, it can either be consumed or reserved in an empty bottle (not mixed with unconsecrated wine). The cups, if they are disposable, should be rinsed either in a piscina (sink that is drained into the ground) or into some other container and the water poured onto the ground. Since we do not know if the consecrated elements even stop being the body and blood of Christ, they need to be cared for reverently. And we never flush Christ's body and blood into the sewer.

[maylor]

If it is left over, it can either be consumed or reserved in an empty bottle (not mixed with unconsecrated wine). The cups, if they are disposable, should be rinsed either in a piscina (sink that is drained into the ground) or into some other container and the water poured onto the ground. Since we do not know if the consecrated elements even stop being the body and blood of Christ, they need to be cared for reverently. And we never flush Christ's body and blood into the sewer.

I believe that my pastor told us that the Real Presence of Christ is only present at the time of consumption of the bread and wine. He said that the belief that the bread and wine remain the Body and Blood of our Lord has led to the adoration or worship of the elements left over like that practiced by the Romish church.

I take it , by your statement, that his belief on this matter is not held by all Lutherans?

[maylor]

I don't think a congregation should be judged for how often Communion is offered. Whether it be every Sunday, or once a month, the important thing to judge is- Is the Gospel being preached every single Sunday?

Just my 2 cents...

I agree with you. I just wish my parish offered it every sunday. I feel that receiving the Sacrament of the Altar has been a great blessing to me, and I need all the help I can get!

[porterross]

I believe that my pastor told us that the Real Presence of Christ is only present at the time of consumption of the bread and wine. He said that the belief that the bread and wine remain the Body and Blood of our Lord has led to the adoration or worship of the elements left over like that practiced by the Romish church.

I take it , by your statement, that his belief on this matter is not held by all Lutherans?
My father was an elder for years as well as congregation president and the remaining, consecrated wine was always handled in the manner Rev stated. I didn't know any Lutherans believed the real presence "wore off" and I'm saddened to learn it.

[CaliforniaJosiah]

Believe it or not, we pour it back into the bottle. (Did I happen to mention my congregation is very frugal?) :)

I don't want to ask what my congregation does with the left over wine... I wouldn't be surprised if I got the same answer - for the same reason, LOL

My father is a pastor of a small church, and I KNOW how this goes. It's TOUGH to make ends meet. The morgage and pastor ALONE - just those two things - sometimes outstrip Sunday offerings. One dollar often has to do the work of two. There were times, I recall, when the church would pay Dad late or "we'll get you the rest after Sunday's offering - hopefully." Dad was NEVER at all, in any sense, bothered by this. He'd just INCREASE his offering. The day may come when I'll reach his spirituality and commitment - but I SURE ain't there yet....

My church now is small, too. And when I went to the all member meeting in December and saw the financial report - it sure brought back memories. I actually emailed the Treasurer the next day and just asked if the pastor was all current in being paid and his benefits funded. She said "yes" but volunteered that the morgage and a few other bills were a month behind... Life in small churches...




.

[Melethiel]

We have common cup only at my church - people can choose whether they dip the bread in, or drink.

[DaRev]

I believe that my pastor told us that the Real Presence of Christ is only present at the time of consumption of the bread and wine. He said that the belief that the bread and wine remain the Body and Blood of our Lord has led to the adoration or worship of the elements left over like that practiced by the Romish church.

I take it , by your statement, that his belief on this matter is not held by all Lutherans?

Actually, what you described above sounds like "receptionism", that the body and blood of Christ are not present until they are received by the communicant. That notion did circulate for a time, but is generally discounted anymore. We know that what is given to us by Christ, according to His word, is His very body and blood. When exactly it is present with the elements of bread and wine is not known. We only know that it's after Christ's statement in the Verba "Take, eat, this is My body..., Drink of it all of you, this is My blood..." and before we receive it in our mouths.

The question of how long afterwards is it present is unknown, thus we handle the elements reverently since they have been consecrated for that use. Now, the Lutheran Confessions do say that there is no presence of Christ's body and blood outside the instituted use, thus trying to worship, adore, pray to, or process the elements means nothing. There is no presence there with those types of use... or, should I say, "mis"use.

[maylor]

Actually, what you described above sounds like "receptionism", that the body and blood of Christ are not present until they are received by the communicant. That notion did circulate for a time, but is generally discounted anymore. We know that what is given to us by Christ, according to His word, is His very body and blood. When exactly it is present with the elements of bread and wine is not known. We only know that it's after Christ's statement in the Verba "Take, eat, this is My body..., Drink of it all of you, this is My blood..." and before we receive it in our mouths.

The question of how long afterwards is it present is unknown, thus we handle the elements reverently since they have been consecrated for that use. Now, the Lutheran Confessions do say that there is no presence of Christ's body and blood outside the instituted use, thus trying to worship, adore, pray to, or process the elements means nothing. There is no presence there with those types of use... or, should I say, "mis"use.

This is more or less what our pastor taught us also. I should have said "present at the time of distribution" instead of "consumption". What happens during the Sacraments is a mystery to me, but I do have Faith that
the Lutheran doctrine is correct on these matters and that the Sacraments are faithfully and correctly administered through the church.

[DaRev]

This is more or less what our pastor taught us also. I should have said "present at the time of distribution" instead of "consumption". What happens during the Sacraments is a mystery to me, but I do have Faith that
the Lutheran doctrine is correct on these matters and that the Sacraments are faithfully and correctly administered through the church.

:thumbsup:

[RevCowboy]

Often the reasons that I hear for not having weekly communion is:
1. "It makes it less special if its too often"
2. "My Grandparents only had it 4 times a year"
3. "That is too much work for the altar guild"
4. "The service is too long"

Changing from once a month or bi-weekly to weekly often takes a lot of time and work. but there a few things that I like to point out to folks (especially my pietistic Norwegian kin) especially in regards to the first two objections.

1. "We Lutherans believe that we truly encounter Jesus in the sacrament, are you saying that we need to our Lord and Saviour less often than more often?
2. This response is in regards to hospitality. Old Nor"wegians are known for their hospitality. It would be unheard of to not offer coffee and a snack to a visitor at one's house. So I say, "You would be offended if a visitor refused your coffee and baking, yet you would refuse Christ the chance to offer you hospitality because its too special?"
3. Finally, "We all eat 3 meals a day, but does that make special meals less any less special? Is Christmas Eve dinner less special because you ate breakfast that morning?"

As far as the other complaints go I just shake me head...

[PreachersWife2004]

We have communion on the first and third Sunday of each month. I'm okay with that, although I wouldn't mind communion every week.

We poor the unused wine back into the bottle. *GASP* Matt does not drink what is left in the chalice. I have no idea what happens to that, as I'm sure it's not poured back into the bottle. I don't believe consecration "wears off" but I do believe that there is nothing wrong with disposing of wine that has backwash in it.

We also put the unused bread back with the other wafers.

How often we take communion is actually adiaphora. There is no rule that says we have to take communion every week. Once we start telling churches that they are wrong for the way they offer communion, we are adding to the scriptures. Jesus said do this, as often as drink/eat, in remembrance of me. (That's a paraphrase) He does not say do this all the time.

I think that people can decide for themselves how often they need to take communion. I know people who like taking it every week, and I know people who take it once a month. Communion is special for each individual and I don't think anyone should judge a person based on how often they take communion. Even if communion is offered every week, a person may choose to not go up to the table for reasons that are private to them.

[DaRev]

We poor the unused wine back into the bottle. *GASP*

We also put the unused bread back with the other wafers.

We keep the consecrated elements seperated from the unconsecrated. It's a more reverent way of caring for that which was set apart for the Lord's use to keep it set apart. It also assures that it's the first to be used the next time.

How often we take communion is actually adiaphora. There is no rule that says we have to take communion every week. Once we start telling churches that they are wrong for the way they offer communion, we are adding to the scriptures. Jesus said do this, as often as drink/eat, in remembrance of me. (That's a paraphrase) He does not say do this all the time.

I think that people can decide for themselves how often they need to take communion. I know people who like taking it every week, and I know people who take it once a month. Communion is special for each individual and I don't think anyone should judge a person based on how often they take communion. Even if communion is offered every week, a person may choose to not go up to the table for reasons that are private to them.

While this is true, not offering it every Sunday does dictate to those who wish to receive it every week how often they are allowed to receive. I've always told the folks here that want us to revert back to bi-monthly communion, "You don't have to receive it every week if you don't want to." But why wouldn't we want to receive it as often as we can? Why would anyone want to deny themselves that gift of Christ? The NT tells us that the Apostles "broke bread" everytime they gathered together for prayer and worship. If properly educated, people would want to receive the Lord's body and blood each time it's offered, be it weekly, daily, or whatever.

[PreachersWife2004]

You make some erroneous claims in your post, Rev.

1. Just because a church doesn't dispose of the leftover wine the same you do doesn't make them any less reverent. Where in the bible does it say that the pastor is supposed to drink the rest of the wine? Where does it say it can't be poured down a drain? It doesn't say those things, and while you choose to dispose your way, your way isn't the only right way.

2. Just because people don't partake of communion every week doesn't mean they aren't properly educated. And again, there's a reason why we examine ourselves before we take communion. I have not gone up to the table on one occasion because I didn't feel I was prepared rightly to take communion. Does that mean I wasn't properly educated. In fact, it means just the opposite. Perhaps for some taking it every week WOULD take away the "specialness" for them, so they take it every other week. That is a personal preference and who are we to say it is wrong?

[DaRev]

You make some erroneous claims in your post, Rev.

1. Just because a church doesn't dispose of the leftover wine the same you do doesn't make them any less reverent. Where in the bible does it say that the pastor is supposed to drink the rest of the wine? Where does it say it can't be poured down a drain? It doesn't say those things, and while you choose to dispose your way, your way isn't the only right way.

Why would we want to pour the blood of Christ into the sewer??

Did I say that pastor had to drink the leftover?? No. Don't put words into my mouth. I said that which is left to be used again should be kept seperate from the unconsecrated elements because they have been set apart. We do not know that the presence of Christ ever leaves the elements (unless you know something I don't), so we reserve them as if Christ is still present.

2. Just because people don't partake of communion every week doesn't mean they aren't properly educated. And again, there's a reason why we examine ourselves before we take communion. I have not gone up to the table on one occasion because I didn't feel I was prepared rightly to take communion. Does that mean I wasn't properly educated. In fact, it means just the opposite. Perhaps for some taking it every week WOULD take away the "specialness" for them, so they take it every other week. That is a personal preference and who are we to say it is wrong?

I was referring to those who believe that it should only be offered occasionally, not those who personally felt unworthy or unprepared to receive. You misunderstood what I was saying, or I didn't articulate it well enough. I applaud those who can make that determination on their own as to whether or not they are worthy or prepared. This is indeed a sign of proper catechesis.

[PreachersWife2004]

Why would we want to pour the blood of Christ into the sewer??

Did I say that pastor had to drink the leftover?? No. Don't put words into my mouth. I said that which is left to be used again should be kept seperate from the unconsecrated elements because they have been set apart. We do not know that the presence of Christ ever leaves the elements (unless you know something I don't), so we reserve them as if Christ is still present.

And treating them as if the consecration lasts only through the supper is not wrong as well.

I realize you didn't say that the pastor had to drink the leftovers...I was just using your practice as an example of something that isn't wrong but shouldn't be used as a litmus test as to whether other churches are being reverent.

I don't know of anyone who would want to pour the lord's supper into the sewer, but I know plenty who might dump the leftover wine down the sink drain. Two totally different concepts.


I was referring to those who believe that it should only be offered occasionally, not those who personally felt unworthy or unprepared to receive. You misunderstood what I was saying, or I didn't articulate it well enough. I applaud those who can make that determination on their own as to whether or not they are worthy or prepared. This is indeed a sign of proper catechesis.

And how are we to judge someone's intent if they don't come up to the table? If someone were to only come up every other week even when communion is offered every week, can we really judge that that person based on our opinion that they should take it every week? It could very well be that they feel they are not prepared. But a blanket statement that those who don't take communion every time it's offered aren't properly educated is not a fair statement to make, regardless of the reasons they choose to not take communion.

Communion is not necessary for salvation - you yourself have asked me if I could wait to take communion in the case where another pastor isn't available to serve me, rather than receive it from an elder. I realize this stems from your belief that only the pastor can distribute, but at the same time, it rather contradicts what you say about people taking communion whenever it is offered.

And I of course mean no offense in my words. I respect your position on communion, and I'm not necessarily arguing it...I'm only asking that we not make blanket statements about those who do not partake of communion whenever it is offered. I myself take it almost all the time it is offered, and I would like a return to every week communion, so I agree with you on that point.

[DaRev]

I don't know of anyone who would want to pour the lord's supper into the sewer, but I know plenty who might dump the leftover wine down the sink drain. Two totally different concepts.

It depends where the sink drain goes. Most of them go into the sewer. In fact, the one in our sacristy is plumbed into the sewer, which is why I have instructed our altar guild to pour the remnants and the water used to rinse the "shot glasses" outside on the ground instead of pouring the blood of Christ into the sewer.


And how are we to judge someone's intent if they don't come up to the table? If someone were to only come up every other week even when communion is offered every week, can we really judge that that person based on our opinion that they should take it every week? It could very well be that they feel they are not prepared. But a blanket statement that those who don't take communion every time it's offered aren't properly educated is not a fair statement to make, regardless of the reasons they choose to not take communion.

Communion is not necessary for salvation - you yourself have asked me if I could wait to take communion in the case where another pastor isn't available to serve me, rather than receive it from an elder. I realize this stems from your belief that only the pastor can distribute, but at the same time, it rather contradicts what you say about people taking communion whenever it is offered.

And I of course mean no offense in my words. I respect your position on communion, and I'm not necessarily arguing it...I'm only asking that we not make blanket statements about those who do not partake of communion whenever it is offered. I myself take it almost all the time it is offered, and I would like a return to every week communion, so I agree with you on that point.

You either grossly misunderstand the things I post on here, or you are intent on starting an argument with me. I am going to assume the former and simply not respond to this any further.

[LutheranChick]

Our Pastor mentioned that a few years back there was a big controversy among our clergy as to exactly WHEN the Body and Blood of Christ become present in/with the bread and wine. Some had some pretty strong opinions but, as the Bible is silent on exactly when it happens, the matter was put to rest. No 'official statement' was made one way or another - except that we don't really know when it happens.

As for how long the bread and wine stay consecrated- we don't know that either. Our congregational tradition is that it is consecrated as long as Communion is being given, but after Communion has been completed, and the prayer of thanksgiving has been said it is no longer consecrated.

For example- one time one of the elderly ladies got 'missed' for communion because the Pastor was supposed to go to her seat to commune her and he simply forgot. While we were singing the hymn of thanksgiving someone reminded Pastor (who felt absolutely terrible, of course). So after the hymn he repeated the words of institution and gave her Communion.

After the service was over, he explained that since we had officially 'completed' Communion with the thanksgiving prayers and hymn he needed to re-consecrate the bread and wine in order to give the person communion.

However, this is Adiaphora - so if a Pastor believes the bread and wine stay consecrated- I imagine that is also fine.

[PreachersWife2004]

You either grossly misunderstand the things I post on here, or you are intent on starting an argument with me. I am going to assume the former and simply not respond to this any further.

You apparently missed the last statement of my post.

I think you may be misunderstanding me, Rev. YOU are the one who has been implying that churches who do not follow the practices YOU follow are less reverent and not properly educated. Those were YOUR words. I am simply asking that you not make blanket statements like that. Is that really that hard to comprehend? I have not grossly misunderstood you, nor am I trying to start an argument with you. You would know that had you read the last part of my post to you. I agree with you in terms of being able to take communion every Sunday. I would like to see a return to that. But I think it is unfair to judge those who would not come up to the table every week even though it is offered, just as I believe it is unfair to judge a church based on how they dispose of the bread and wine when communion is done.

~-~-~-~-

LC, that's pretty much what my husband believes. He communes two or three women after the service because they cannot walk up to the front quickly and they prefer to sit in the back (in chairs that won't break their hips) and he says the words of consecration over again.

[porterross]

Personally, I wish there was at least one mass every day so we could receive Holy Communion as often as we could attend. I noticed that the Church of England offers Eucharist at least once a day in most of its churches and St. Paul's (and many others) made it available at lunchtime, which is especially nice being that it's downtown London.

Believe it or not, they even offer it now at the chapel in Gatwick airport! Guess where I'll be after landing and before boarding my flight next time I fly to London. :pray:

I don't know why we can't have it made more available to us since many of us long to receive it more often than seems to be cutomary. Every two weeks is not often enough for me and the fact that it's not available more often does indeed affect those of us who feel this way and it is indeed unfair.

[PreachersWife2004]

Personally, I wish there was at least one mass every day so we could receive Holy Communion as often as we could attend. I noticed that the Church of England offers Eucharist at least once a day in most of its churches and St. Paul's (and many others) made it available at lunchtime, which is especially nice being that it's downtown London.

Believe it or not, they even offer it now at the chapel in Gatwick airport! Guess where I'll be after landing and before boarding my flight next time I fly to London. :pray:

I don't know why we can't have it made more available to us since many of us long to receive it more often than seems to be cutomary. Every two weeks is not often enough for me and the fact that it's not available more often does indeed affect those of us who feel this way and it is indeed unfair.

I would love to have the opportunity to take communion every day, if I felt I needed it. I can't say for certain that I would do it every day, but I think I would feel somehow comforted to know that it was available should I desire to take it.

Matt will give communion to someone if they ask for it, whether at church or at home. He has the little travel set that he takes with him on visits to shut ins. He has given me communion here at home, but when someone calls him for private communion he does it at church.

What does your pastor say about you wanting more, PR? I would think he would be pleased, but I get the impression that he's not.

[porterross]

I would love to have the opportunity to take communion every day, if I felt I needed it. I can't say for certain that I would do it every day, but I think I would feel somehow comforted to know that it was available should I desire to take it.

Matt will give communion to someone if they ask for it, whether at church or at home. He has the little travel set that he takes with him on visits to shut ins. He has given me communion here at home, but when someone calls him for private communion he does it at church.

What does your pastor say about you wanting more, PR? I would think he would be pleased, but I get the impression that he's not.


He agrees that it should be offered with every service, but as the congregation has always done it twice a month, they are resistant to change. :sigh:

When there are 5 Sundays a month, we do indeed have it on the 5th Sunday. He is hoping that will ease those who are vocally against having it more often into getting used to the idea. Of course, that could take a decade or so and I honestly believe that until some of the old-timers are no longer in control of things or as active, things aren't likely to change.

I find it interesting that it is mostly we "youngsters" who want things done in a more orthodox manner according to church and not local tradition. Of course, my mother is one of the not so young who agrees with me and it was because of those unwilling to be more traditional that she left for the Anglican church, but the Episcopal church here has the same problem. :(

[maylor]

Does the Roman church require believers to receive Communion every week? I wonder if part of the reason that the Lutheran church stopped celebrating the Lord's Supper every week was in reaction to the Roman church's practice. Also the consecrated elements remaining the Body and Blood of our Lord forever as viewed by the Roman church and Lutherans saying we'll determine for ourselves how long we think they remain so.

It is my impression that some of the views on Communion as well as other rites and practices that were seen as too "Catholic" and sort of rejected for a time by Lutherans are now coming back to some extant.

[DaRev]

It is my impression that some of the views on Communion as well as other rites and practices that were seen as too "Catholic" and sort of rejected for a time by Lutherans are now coming back to some extant.

This is true. And it's about time!!

[porterross]

Does the Roman church require believers to receive Communion every week? I wonder if part of the reason that the Lutheran church stopped celebrating the Lord's Supper every week was in reaction to the Roman church's practice. Also the consecrated elements remaining the Body and Blood of our Lord forever as viewed by the Roman church and Lutherans saying we'll determine for ourselves how long we think they remain so.

It is my impression that some of the views on Communion as well as other rites and practices that were seen as too "Catholic" and sort of rejected for a time by Lutherans are now coming back to some extant.
I think you're right and I, too, was taught that the elements, once consecrated, remain so (how could they not?). When and why teaching contrary to that came about it is a mystery to me.

[PreachersWife2004]

PR, it's probably different for each and every pastor as to how they dispose of the wine. Some WELS pastors that I know of keep the consecrated wine separated from the un-consecrated, and use that first (as Rev mentioned, I believe). I have never met any WELS pastors who drink the remaining wine in the chalice, though. Some pastors in the WELS have been in their congregations long enough that they know pretty much how much wine to pour and have very little leftover. Yet other WELS pastors have a special spot in which they pour the wine...sort of like consecrated ground only not so much on the consecrated part. I jokingly said something about making sure to not bury one's pet there in another thread. I know of one church that has a small section near the back door where there is a little rock garden with a cross. They pour the wine there...and the flowers there are probably the healthiest flowers on the block. Coincidence? Perhaps...but I believe as I once read that coincidence is merely God choosing to be anonymous. I believe there are many ways to dispose of the communion wine and unless one is doing it in a shameful manner, they are not wrong.

And why don't people discuss the bread as often as the blood? I'd hate to find out how truly old our wafers are, since they are bought in bulk and our communion attendance wavers at around 20 people. But I know for certain that the wafers that are not used are placed back into the holders with the other wafers.

I think it's because the bible is silent on this matter that you will find many different opinions. When I took confirmation, we were taught that the elements were consecrated during the service, but were not held to be consecrated afterwards. It wasn't to detract from the elements, but instead to impress the fact that we shouldn't let ourselves drift into element-worship, as some are known to do (mainly in the RCC).

There are many traditions from the Catholic church that I do not mind. I do agree that it was probably in response to the RCC saying one MUST attend mass every week that Lutherans began communing less, even as we decided to use the sprinkle method of baptism in response to those who claimed only immersion baptisms were true baptisms.

I just know that I would pretty much take communion whenever it was offered. I am also trying to convince my husband that he should offer communion on Easter Sunday. He's done it once or twice, before my time, and of course, some of the older members complained. I would fully love to have fully communion services for Holy Week. I take communion on Maundy Thursday and Good Friday, why not Easter, too? My old church is now doing it, since many people spoke in favor of it.

[CaliforniaJosiah]

Does the Roman church require believers to receive Communion every week? I wonder if part of the reason that the Lutheran church stopped celebrating the Lord's Supper every week was in reaction to the Roman church's practice. Also the consecrated elements remaining the Body and Blood of our Lord forever as viewed by the Roman church and Lutherans saying we'll determine for ourselves how long we think they remain so.

I've always assumed that the RC and EO have had Mass EVERY Sunday, but now that I think about it, I actually don't know....

MY understanding (ain't saying that's saying much) is that the Lutheran practice has ebbed and flowed A LOT. Originally, it was every Sunday. Then some bozo noticed that Luther said we should take it AT LEAST 4 times a year and THOUGHT Luther said at most 4 times a year, and so that became common. My grandfather tells me that he actually remembers it being that rare, although most of his ministry, it was monthly to twice a month. I think the weekly celebrating - now increasingly common - is fairly new. In the USA anyway.

It is my impression that some of the views on Communion as well as other rites and practices that were seen as too "Catholic" and sort of rejected for a time by Lutherans are now coming back to some extant.

Lutherans talking about something being too "Catholic" is like George Bush complaining about something being too "Republican."



Thank you!!!


Pax!


- Josiah




.

[CaliforniaJosiah]

To the "Leftovers" issue.....


It seems to ME that the Lutheran understanding of the Sacramental Union is pretty undefined and just doesn't really get into that...

There is a SENSE (I seem to recall from Pieper) in which the Sacramental aspect is associated with the Sacramental action - thus when it is no longer being distributed and received, the "union" no longer exists (maybe I'm remembering wrong there). But I honestly don't think Lutherans pin that one down, doctrinally anyway. I got the impression that this Sacramental Union was not particularly well developed (one of the things I DEEPLY appreciate about Lutherans is their willingness to SHUT UP).

While I personally like the idea of preserving and using at the next Mass, I don't actually know what my congregation does and I'm not losing any sleep over that. I doubt Jesus is, either.



My $0.00


Pax


- Josiah




.

[LutheranHawkeye]

Lol, some Lutherans actually think that the body and blood magically disappear? That's funny. It's great to be in the LCMS.

[PreachersWife2004]

Lol, some Lutherans actually think that the body and blood magically disappear? That's funny. It's great to be in the LCMS.

Statements like this foster the idea that some in the LCMS think they are "better" than others because of their disposal methods.

I know an LCMS pastor who pours the wine from the chalice down the drain when he's done.

Honestly, no one has said that it magically disappears. Exactly what does the bible say on the matter, Nordic?

*<crickets>*

It doesn't say anything. So we can be safe in assuming either it stays consecrated or when communion is done it is no longer consecrated.

I wonder - do you flip out if a member in your congregation accidentally spills the wine?

[RadMan]

Statements like this foster the idea that some in the LCMS think they are "better" than others because of their disposal methods.

I know an LCMS pastor who pours the wine from the chalice down the drain when he's done.

Honestly, no one has said that it magically disappears. Exactly what does the bible say on the matter, Nordic?

*<crickets>*

It doesn't say anything. So we can be safe in assuming either it stays consecrated or when communion is done it is no longer consecrated.

I wonder - do you flip out if a member in your congregation accidentally spills the wine?You might want to check Luther on that. He raised a stink once.

[porterross]

One of the reasons I don't like individual cups is my fear of spilling it.

[LutheranHawkeye]

Statements like this foster the idea that some in the LCMS think they are "better" than others because of their disposal methods.

I know an LCMS pastor who pours the wine from the chalice down the drain when he's done.

Honestly, no one has said that it magically disappears. Exactly what does the bible say on the matter, Nordic?

*<crickets>*

It doesn't say anything. So we can be safe in assuming either it stays consecrated or when communion is done it is no longer consecrated.

I wonder - do you flip out if a member in your congregation accidentally spills the wine?
A Lutheran pastor who consecrates the elements after being consecrated is INSANE. I would not attend that parish nor would my family. The bible is the sole authority for all Church matters, but if it doesn't say to think of a purple flamingo while recieving the body of Christ, then why not think of one during reception? Christ does not say that his body and blood will leave the elements. Therefore it is not Lutheran to believe that they magically leave. I guess something the WELS and I do not agree with.

[PreachersWife2004]

One of the reasons I don't like individual cups is my fear of spilling it.

I have always preferred common cup to the individual cup, but I've also had a pastor spill the chalice down my shirt.

Hubby has 2D vision, which makes it hard for him to distribute using a common cup. He's actually hit people's teeth before, so he is quite happy using individual cups.

Another thing about individual cup is that not everyone drinks everything in the cup. I see a lot of little cups with half the wine still in it.

[Melethiel]

I firmly believe that the Divine Service is not complete without the Liturgy of the Sacrament. From the earliest Christian liturgies, the service has consisted of both Word and Sacrament. Holding the Liturgy of the Word alone doesn't make much sense (unless there is no pastor available to do the consecration). One doesn't have to receive every week if one doesn't want to (although why one wouldn't want to, I can't fathom), but it should be available for those who do.

We also don't know when, if at all, the elements cease being the Body and Blood of Christ - so they should be treated reverently - not mixed with the unconsecrated elements.

[PreachersWife2004]

A Lutheran pastor who consecrates the elements after being consecrated is INSANE. I would not attend that parish nor would my family. The bible is the sole authority for all Church matters, but if it doesn't say to think of a purple flamingo while recieving the body of Christ, then why not think of one during reception? Christ does not say that his body and blood will leave the elements. Therefore it is not Lutheran to believe that they magically leave. I guess something the WELS and I do not agree with.

Thanks for calling my hsuband insane. Guess I'm glad you DON'T attend my church.

What exactly do you think the apostles did after they broke bread? Does the bible say? No. For all we know, they poured it out on the sand. We have no way of knowing what was left over from that Last Supper.

And so that you are a little more clear on the WELS' position, here are some excerpts from one of the many Q&As on consecration on the WELS site.

Historically the Lutheran emphasis, with few exceptions, has been on the whole sacramental action--the consecration, distribution, and reception of the elements. We simply say (as did the Formula of Concord) that nothing has the nature of a sacrament unless all these aspects of the Sacrament are involved. To speak of the real presence when the consecrated elements are not eaten and drunk is out of order and is not what our Lord said when he said, "This do."This was in response to someone tsking about plastic cups with the blood of Christ in them sitting in garbage bags waiting to go to the dump.

Yet another excerpt:

The last of the Lutheran Confessions, the Formula of Concord, says first: "[Lutherans] do not hold that the body of Christ is present apart from the reception [the 1584 Latin translation has "use"]--for example, when the bread is laid aside and kept in the tabernacle or carried about and put on display in the procession" (FC, SD, Art VII, 15)"

Again, "Nothing has the character of a sacrament apart from the use [uses] instituted by Christ or the divinely instituted action [actio]" (FC, SD, VII, 85).

The Lutheran Church officially teaches and confesses, therefore, that the sacramental union does not exist when the elements are not being used for distribution and reception.That's from the Formula of Concord. Do you disagree with the FoC as it stands?

[DaRev]

A Lutheran pastor who consecrates the elements after being consecrated is INSANE. I would not attend that parish nor would my family.

I would suggest you do some research before making such comments in the future.

From the Epitome of the FoC:

9] 4. But at the same time we also believe, teach, and confess unanimously that in the use of the Holy Supper the words of the institution of Christ should in no way be omitted, but should be publicly recited, as it is written 1 Cor. 10, 16: The cup of blessing which we bless, etc. This blessing occurs through the recitation of the words of Christ.

[DaRev]

I firmly believe that the Divine Service is not complete without the Liturgy of the Sacrament. From the earliest Christian liturgies, the service has consisted of both Word and Sacrament. Holding the Liturgy of the Word alone doesn't make much sense (unless there is no pastor available to do the consecration). One doesn't have to receive every week if one doesn't want to (although why one wouldn't want to, I can't fathom), but it should be available for those who do.

We also don't know when, if at all, the elements cease being the Body and Blood of Christ - so they should be treated reverently - not mixed with the unconsecrated elements.

:clap: :amen: :thumbsup:

[PreachersWife2004]

Thank goodness communion and the disposal of the elements isn't a salvation issue!! :)

[Melethiel]

But should we ignore due reverence and practice just for the sake of something not being a salvation issue? Technically, there are a lot of things that aren't salvation issues that we would (rightly) make a stink about.

[porterross]

Like women bewing allowed on the altar, depending on your perspective on that matter? ;)

[PreachersWife2004]

But should we ignore due reverence and practice just for the sake of something not being a salvation issue? Technically, there are a lot of things that aren't salvation issues that we would (rightly) make a stink about.

Not at all. But saying that one's practices are more reverent than another when there is no set rule for either just seems rather arrogant.

I have nothing against any church that disposes of their consecrated elements in a special way. The WELS teaches that respect and reverence is best when dealing with the elements. I would never tell them they were WRONG for doing so.

I had simply asked that blanket statements not be made about churches that don't necessarily hold the same methods as some others.

I actually find it quite ironic that there is such a heated debate on the "correct" method when it isn't a salvation issue. It is really adiaphoron (I really need to look that word up, I'm sure I'm spelling it wrong every time I use it) and I don't believe that any church could be called wrong in their disposal methods unless they are being brazenly disrespectful about it.

I'm sure I'm not communicating my "issue" here well enough. I wish I was more eloquent sometimes. :doh:

[PreachersWife2004]

Like women bewing allowed on the altar, depending on your perspective on that matter? ;)

Yeah, but that's actually spelled out in the bible! We got RULEZ for that, at least! :D

[porterross]

Yeah, but that's actually spelled out in the bible! We got RULEZ for that, at least! :D


But that's where I receive communion and we have female acolytes, so the WELS stance is not a cut and dried Lutheran take on the matter, but that's one for a different discussion thread. :P

[LutheranHawkeye]

I would suggest you do some research before making such comments in the future.

From the Epitome of the FoC:

9] 4. But at the same time we also believe, teach, and confess unanimously that in the use of the Holy Supper the words of the institution of Christ should in no way be omitted, but should be publicly recited, as it is written 1 Cor. 10, 16: The cup of blessing which we bless, etc. This blessing occurs through the recitation of the words of Christ.
You clearly didn't understand what I was responding to. She said that her Pastor will reconsecrate the body and blood soon after the words of institution. My statement does not go against the FoC. Why are Lutherans so split on this?

[DaRev]

You clearly didn't understand what I was responding to. She said that her Pastor will reconsecrate the body and blood soon after the words of institution. My statement does not go against the FoC. Why are Lutherans so split on this?

If you are talking about reconsecrating elements during the same service, I agree that it is not necessary. If you are talking about reciting the Verba over elements that have been used in a previous service, then the FoC applies. The words need to be spoken and heard.

But, it's a bit overboard to call someone "insane" and to threaten leaving the church over something like that.

[DaRev]

But that's where I receive communion and we have female acolytes, so the WELS stance is not a cut and dried Lutheran take on the matter, but that's one for a different discussion thread. :P

But the recipients and the acolytes are not involved in the administration of the sacrament, which includes distribution of the elements. BIG difference. :)

[porterross]

But the recipients and the acolytes are not involved in the administration of the sacrament, which includes distribution of the elements. BIG difference. :)


Oh, I know that, but I also know how some feel about women even being on the altar. Remember the discussions held here about that and the woman who said females don't belong on the altar, period, was the grandmother of one of the female acolytes? When I reminded her of that, she had no choice but to say she didn't like that either. I can tell you, that's about the only time her granddaughter actually behaves during the service. ^_^

[DaRev]

Oh, I know that, but I also know how some feel about women even being on the altar. Remember the discussions held here about that and the woman who said females don't belong on the altar, period, was the grandmother of one of the female acolytes? When I reminded her of that, she had no choice but to say she didn't like that either. I can tell you, that's about the only time her granddaughter actually behaves during the service. ^_^

I remember you telling me about that.

[Lupinus]

We have it on the first, third, and fifth Sundays of each month, along with any special/festival/holiday type services. During my catechism my Pastor told me that our church used to do it the first Sunday and only the first Sunday. Sometimes even important holidays went without communion.

I'd love to have it every Sunday but some already complain it takes to long so I don't see it happening. I guess it does have it's advantages as anything added to the service is done on non-communion days to balance out the service times.

Still, would be nice.

[porterross]

IMO, if they're focused on how long it takes, they're missing the point.:sigh:

[Melethiel]

Not to mention, our 75 minute services are painfully short by old-time standards. During the height of orthodox Lutheranism for example (18th century), services generally ran about 3 hours. Plus morning prayer and catechism.

[DaRev]

IMO, if they're focused on how long it takes, they're missing the point.:sigh:

And how!

[LutheranHawkeye]

If you are talking about reconsecrating elements during the same service, I agree that it is not necessary. If you are talking about reciting the Verba over elements that have been used in a previous service, then the FoC applies. The words need to be spoken and heard.

But, it's a bit overboard to call someone "insane" and to threaten leaving the church over something like that.
I'm talking about the first situation. I don't think confusing a congregation with receptionism is a good trait of a Pastor. The Pastor should be confident in the words of institution, not having to repeat them every couple of minutes imho.

[DaRev]

I'm talking about the first situation. I don't think confusing a congregation with receptionism is a good trait of a Pastor. The Pastor should be confident in the words of institution, not having to repeat them every couple of minutes imho.

With this I agree.

[PreachersWife2004]

I'm talking about the first situation. I don't think confusing a congregation with receptionism is a good trait of a Pastor. The Pastor should be confident in the words of institution, not having to repeat them every couple of minutes imho.

:doh:

He say "This is my body..." "This is my blood..." to the people receiving communion after the service. Many people consider these to be the consecrating words. The communion service has been over for at least 15 minutes.

You once again demonstrate ignorance when you post "The pastor should be confident..." This has nothing to do with confidence. He's not repeating the words every minute. And he's certainly not confusing anyone.

Could you kindly keep your opinions about my husband to yourself from now on? Your foot doesn't look very comfortable in your mouth.

[RadMan]

To me, the pastor saying "This in My body........This is My blood....." is just a confirmation and comfort for me. I don't think it has anything to do with a confident intent by the pastor.

[Zecryphon]

Good question. It should be.
I have a question and forgive me if it's a stupid one. But how much work is involved in preparing this sacrament? If you use the plastic cups do you wash these cups or throw them out and use new cups the next time? If it's a lot of work to prepare the Sacrament, perhaps certain pastors just don't want to do it at every service.

[BabyLutheran]

I am not judging anyone else's practices regarding communion, I just think it should be done every service. In fact I am going to talk about helping out with serving it so that I can do my part to ensure there is no excuse about not having enough help! Right now the serving of communion involves both pastors and about 6-8 lay people. It takes about 10-15 minutes for the attendees to take communion.

Our service lasts anywhere from 1 to 1.25 hours. If that's too long, some of the Lutherans on here should go to a charismatic church sometime. Our old church had 45 minutes of praise and worship alone, and then a 45 minutes to 1 hour self help lecture.

Or go to an African American church sometime, some of their services go all day, with a break for lunch.

[Zecryphon]

I am not judging anyone else's practices regarding communion, I just think it should be done every service. In fact I am going to talk about helping out with serving it so that I can do my part to ensure there is no excuse about not having enough help! Right now the serving of communion involves both pastors and about 6-8 lay people. It takes about 10-15 minutes for the attendees to take communion.

Our service lasts anywhere from 1 to 1.25 hours. If that's too long, some of the Lutherans on here should go to a charismatic church sometime. Our old church had 45 minutes of praise and worship alone, and then a 45 minutes to 1 hour self help lecture.

Or go to an African American church sometime, some of their services go all day, with a break for lunch.
We're Lutherans, we can't bring our arms above waist level, so there's no way we'd last 5 mins in a Charismatic church! LOL Of course it'd be interesting to see how long a Charismatic Christian lasted in a Lutheran church too. LOL

[Zecryphon]

Thanks for calling my hsuband insane. Guess I'm glad you DON'T attend my church.

What exactly do you think the apostles did after they broke bread? Does the bible say? No. For all we know, they poured it out on the sand. We have no way of knowing what was left over from that Last Supper.

And so that you are a little more clear on the WELS' position, here are some excerpts from one of the many Q&As on consecration on the WELS site.

This was in response to someone tsking about plastic cups with the blood of Christ in them sitting in garbage bags waiting to go to the dump.

Yet another excerpt:

That's from the Formula of Concord. Do you disagree with the FoC as it stands?
What exactly do you think the apostles did after they broke bread? Does the bible say? No. For all we know, they poured it out on the sand. We have no way of knowing what was left over from that Last Supper.

The only asnwer you might eve find to this question would be found in the Jewish ritual of Passover. What does it say typically happens at this point? They were gathered to celebrate Passover, so the answer is most likely found in the rules for that ritual.

[BabyLutheran]

It would be quite interesting to see a joint service of pentecostals and Lutherans.

I might even pay an admissions fee! lol

You know though, even though we only took communion once a month at that charismatic church, and it was taught to be symbolic, I do have to give the pastor credit for saying that we had to take it very seriously. And that taking communion with unrepentant sin was itself sinful.

[DaRev]

I have a question and forgive me if it's a stupid one. But how much work is involved in preparing this sacrament? If you use the plastic cups do you wash these cups or throw them out and use new cups the next time? If it's a lot of work to prepare the Sacrament, perhaps certain pastors just don't want to do it at every service.

In my opinion, nothing disposable should be used for the Lord's Supper. If folks are intent on using the shot glasses, they should be glass. I've tried to get rid of the plastic ones here and even offered to pay for the glass ones, but you'd have thought I was suggesting heresy! I was jumped all over by the elder chairman.

But to your question. Normally it isn't the pastor who sets up for communion but the altar guild. And depending on whether or not the individs are used, it could be somewhat involved in setting it up. At my home church the deacons set it up, but they don't use individual cups at all.

In my opinion, if the altar guild doesn't want to set it up every Sunday, find different people for the altar guild.

[maylor]

It would be quite interesting to see a joint service of pentecostals and Lutherans.

I might even pay an admissions fee! lol


There'll be one in Heaven, and Lord willing, you and I will see each other there!

[BabyLutheran]

Yes, ain't that the truth! And Jesus paid the admission fee for me.

I wonder what kind of music we will sing. I vote for the old fashioned hymns! lol

Too bad I don't really get a vote!

[DaRev]

I can assure you that only doctrinally sound songs would be sung in heaven. ^_^

[Zecryphon]

I can assure you that only doctrinally sound songs would be sung in heaven. ^_^
Ah, but in which language?

[BabyLutheran]

In tongues!

The pentecostals were right!?!?!?

[maylor]

Ah, but in which language?

Angelish.

[BabyLutheran]

Good one Maylor! lol

Another real positive is that we will all finally be able to sing on-key

[Zecryphon]

In tongues!

The pentecostals were right!?!?!?
Blasphemy! ;) :D

[Melethiel]

Our altar guild doesn't seem to mind setting up every Sunday...but then, we don't have any shot glasses.

[BigNorsk]

A Lutheran pastor who consecrates the elements after being consecrated is INSANE. I would not attend that parish nor would my family. The bible is the sole authority for all Church matters, but if it doesn't say to think of a purple flamingo while recieving the body of Christ, then why not think of one during reception? Christ does not say that his body and blood will leave the elements. Therefore it is not Lutheran to believe that they magically leave. I guess something the WELS and I do not agree with.

That's actually a very common practice. Many pastors use leftover elements in their visitations to the sick and shut ins and as far as I know it's always been the practice to say the words of institution in the presence of those partaking even though the elements were previously consecrated. I'm not aware of any group of Lutherans that would prohibit the reconsecration, most would carefully instruct that it should be done.

Careful about making promises, you might find it difficult to find a place to attend. Wouldn't want you breaking your promises you know.

Marv

[Zecryphon]

Our altar guild doesn't seem to mind setting up every Sunday...but then, we don't have any shot glasses.
We do use the shot glasses along with the common cup. We have Communion every week in the traditional service. We have it in the mixed service on the 1st and 3rd weeks of the month. Lastly, we have it in the contemporary service on the 2nd and 4th weeks of the month.

[PreachersWife2004]

Some of our altar guild ladies complain no matter what...:P

[BabyLutheran]

Shot glasses are very nondenominational. You better be careful, next thing you know, they will bring out the oyster crackers!lol

I can tell my congregation is mostly converts, they don't call it an altar guild. It's just called communion assistants.

[porterross]

Some of our altar guild ladies complain no matter what...:P



But of course. God must find it amusing and/or necessary or there wouldn't be someone like that in every single congregation. :sigh:

[Zecryphon]

Shot glasses are very nondenominational. You better be careful, next thing you know, they will bring out the oyster crackers!lol

I can tell my congregation is mostly converts, they don't call it an altar guild. It's just called communion assistants.
And suffer my wrath if they do! MWUHAHAHA!!!

[DaRev]

But of course. God must find it amusing and/or necessary or there wouldn't be someone like that in every single congregation. :sigh:

And some congregations are "blessed" more than others. :doh: :sigh:

[PreachersWife2004]

We have one lady who consistently complains about changing the colors. I think (this is second hand info) that she once suggested using a rainbow altar cover that had all the colors of the church year in it.

Most of the ladies are wonderful, and very patient. We happen to wash our cups, even though they aren't glass, and the lady that does that does it without complaining to anyone. That we know of, anyway!

And there was the lady who was mad because I didn't help out with altar guild. She actually told me that it was part of my "duties" as a pastor's wife. Yeah, I did it once, and I'm just not cut out for altar duty. Even with the velcro on the altar, I couldn't get the cloth to sit right and then I spilled wine on it (don't worry, it was "normal" wine).

[BabyLutheran]

We have one lady who consistently complains about changing the colors. I think (this is second hand info) that she once suggested using a rainbow altar cover that had all the colors of the church year in it.

Most of the ladies are wonderful, and very patient. We happen to wash our cups, even though they aren't glass, and the lady that does that does it without complaining to anyone. That we know of, anyway!

And there was the lady who was mad because I didn't help out with altar guild. She actually told me that it was part of my "duties" as a pastor's wife. Yeah, I did it once, and I'm just not cut out for altar duty. Even with the velcro on the altar, I couldn't get the cloth to sit right and then I spilled wine on it (don't worry, it was "normal" wine).
So, sounds like the LCMS is just like real life. The men get to do the fun part (serving), and the women have to clean it all up! lol

Just teasing, no offense meant to LCMS people.

[CaliforniaJosiah]

So, sounds like the LCMS is just like real life. The men get to do the fun part (serving), and the women have to clean it all up! lol

Just teasing, no offense meant to LCMS people.


I understand there is an ancient Jewish prayer where men would thank God they were born... male.

Now, I will shake up what is DELIGHTFULLY a nice environment around here, but not all Lutherans think that only males may assist in the distribution of the Eucharist. Some do, some don't (and some love to argue about this). But come to think of it, I don't know about my new church, but in my Dad's church, it's the same 3 ladies setting up, cleaning up. Since Noah landed on the mountain and probably until Jesus comes back. I don't think any male would CONSIDER it. And, come to think of it, I don't recall any thanks being given to those ladies (I'm sure my Dad did, privately, however). Thank God for all those who serve just to serve, even if in sexist roles.


But I warn all my fellow males, "The times, they are a changing...."


Pax


- Josiah




.

[PreachersWife2004]

So, sounds like the LCMS is just like real life. The men get to do the fun part (serving), and the women have to clean it all up! lol

Just teasing, no offense meant to LCMS people.

None taken, since I am a WELS lutheran!! ^_^

[BabyLutheran]

We have men and women serving the wine, but only the pastors distribute the bread.

[Lupinus]

Men only at my church

Pastors distributes the bread, an elder follows with the shot glasses, and then Pastor follows with the chalice.

[DaRev]

But I warn all my fellow males, "The times, they are a changing...."

But thank God His word never changes.

[DaRev]

Men only at my church

Pastors distributes the bread, an elder follows with the shot glasses, and then Pastor follows with the chalice.

Same here, as it should be.

[CaliforniaJosiah]

We have men and women serving the wine, but only the pastors distribute the bread.


Same at mine...

The Acolyte receives the cups, and they are about equally male and female.

[DaRev]

It demonatrates a sad state of affairs that there are so many LCMS congregations that operate apart from the official teaching and practice of synod. :(

[cerette]

I’ve been thinking a lot about the Sacrament of Holy Communion lately. It seems to me that if we as Lutherans truly believe that the Real Presence of our Lord Jesus Christ is received in the sacrament, and I most certainly do, that we should get it more often than twice a month. This is the practice at my WELS church and I have read of other WELS churches that celebrate the Lord’s Supper only once a month! Also my church uses the individual plastic shot glass type cups, which I don’t mind, but not using the common cup for fear of contracting some illness seems to be doubting the truth of the doctrine of the Real Presence. If we our receiving the Real Presence of Christ in a worthy manner during the sacrament how could we possibly get sick from the common cup no matter what the health was of the person before us?

Below is a letter that I recently emailed to my pastor:

Hello Pastor,

I have a couple of questions about the Sacrament of Holy Communion and private confession that I would like to ask you.

We celebrate the Lord’s Supper at _______ the first and third Sundays of each month. Is this the practice of the WELS, or does the frequency of Holy Communion vary from church to church?

Is there a reason why we should not celebrate the Sacrament every Sunday? I know that it is not required for Salvation. I find myself yearning every week to receive the Real Presence and the blessing of physical and spiritual Communion with our Lord Jesus Christ and the forgiveness of sins and strengthening of Faith that it imparts.

I am new to Lutheranism and to our church and understand that I may be in error or that it may be inappropriate to celebrate the Lord’s Supper every week.

The evening before a Communion Sunday, _______ and I read the Preparation for Holy Communion, from the Lutheran Book of Prayer, and we’ve started saying the Prayer Before Holy Communion in the morning before we leave for church.

In Luther’s Small Catechism, in the section on confession, there is #268 What is the benefit of private confession and absolution?

I was wondering about your position on private confession. I assume that you would offer it to someone who requested it, but I don’t recall you speaking about it during our classes. Is private confession something you would encourage people to do or is it something that should just be made available to those who feel they need it?

________ Lutheran Church has been a great blessing to my family. We feel so fortunate to have been led to this church.

Thank you so much.

Regards,

M____________

Maylor,

I think you have a very good attitude toward communion. Christians should long for it. It is a wonderful thing.
The pastor is not the person who decides these things. The pastor is only the servant. He is to do what the congregation decides. Perhaps you could bring this up at some church meeting and then the voters have to vote about it.
I used to go to a church with communion weekly, and i really really miss it so very much.

[maylor]

Maylor,

I think you have a very good attitude toward communion. Christians should long for it. It is a wonderful thing.
The pastor is not the person who decides these things. The pastor is only the servant. He is to do what the congregation decides. Perhaps you could bring this up at some church meeting and then the voters have to vote about it.
I used to go to a church with communion weekly, and i really really miss it so very much.

I've been a confirmed member of my church for less than 6 months and I'm also one of the youngest men in my congregation.

I haven't had a chance to discuss this issue one on one with any other people in my congregation.

When I spoke to the pastor about it, He sounded like he would like to celebrate the Lord's Supper every week, but he also implyed that not many would probably be interested in changing the way things are now.

[cerette]

I've been a confirmed member of my church for less than 6 months and I'm also one of the youngest men in my congregation.

I haven't had a chance to discuss this issue one on one with any other people in my congregation.

When I spoke to the pastor about it, He sounded like he would like to celebrate the Lord's Supper every week, but he also implyed that not many would probably be interested in changing the way things are now.
May I ask you how old you are? (Not that it matters.)
I am pretty new to my congregation too, and often feel like I "shouldn't" state my opinion or even ask questions because I am so new, but as long as it is a valid question or opinion there's no reason not to ask.

It makes me truly SAD to hear that people would not want to have communion more often. It blows my mind. Why wouldn't they?! In communion Christ offers his own body and blood for the forgiveness of our sins and strengthens our faith, why would anyone NOT want to receive it as often as possible??? Makes no sense to me.

[porterross]

So, get yourself on the council ASAP and start helping the pastor get things back to being more orthodox. ;)

[maylor]

I'm 35. I should have said: I'm also one of the youngest men in my congregation who has a wife and children. There are only 2 other men in my church younger than myself who have families and they hardly ever attend church and never voter's meetings (their wives and children are at church most sundays, but not them).

[maylor]

So, get yourself on the council ASAP and start helping the pastor get things back to being more orthodox. ;)

Doesn't one need to be an elder to do that?

[DaRev]

I'm 35. I should have said: I'm also one of the youngest men in my congregation who has a wife and children. There are only 2 other men in my church younger than myself who have families and they hardly ever attend church and never voter's meetings (their wives and children are at church most sundays, but not them).

Shame on them. Sounds like a couple of wives have some butt kickin' to do.

[cerette]

I'm 35. I should have said: I'm also one of the youngest men in my congregation who has a wife and children. There are only 2 other men in my church younger than myself who have families and they hardly ever attend church and never voter's meetings (their wives and children are at church most sundays, but not them).
The men that 'hardly ever attend church'... are they members of the congregation?

It is a sin to willfully neglect church services. If that is what happens, according to the Bible, church discipline needs to take place.

Best of luck to you in being a good witness to your fellow sisters and brothers in your church. Sounds to me like you are a blessing to the whole congregation.

[maylor]

Shame on them. Sounds like a couple of wives have some butt kickin' to do.

I was the same way myself, totally neglected the spiritual leadership of my family for the first 5 years of our marriage.

[PreachersWife2004]

Doesn't one need to be an elder to do that?

No necessarily. Generally, councilmembers and elders are two different matters. Elders help the pastor out in many ways, such as visits to "delinquent" members and shut-ins, and often are instrumental in applying church discipline. Councilmembers (who can also serve as elders) are charged with the routine stuff of church - making decisions about policies, raises for the pastor, building maintenance, etc.

In the larger churches, the council also has committees that help set the policies.

In my church, we've had the same councilmembers for the four years that I have been here. We just now started having elders, simply because Matt was getting bogged under making visits to non-attenders and he wasn't getting to the shut-ins. We have a membership of 81, and an average church attendance of 25.

I like to mention that I am the loudest singer in the church.

[cerette]

No necessarily. Generally, councilmembers and elders are two different matters. Elders help the pastor out in many ways, such as visits to "delinquent" members and shut-ins, and often are instrumental in applying church discipline. Councilmembers (who can also serve as elders) are charged with the routine stuff of church - making decisions about policies, raises for the pastor, building maintenance, etc.

In the larger churches, the council also has committees that help set the policies.

In my church, we've had the same councilmembers for the four years that I have been here. We just now started having elders, simply because Matt was getting bogged under making visits to non-attenders and he wasn't getting to the shut-ins. We have a membership of 81, and an average church attendance of 25.

I like to mention that I am the loudest singer in the church.
25 of 81 attending... How very very sad.

[maylor]

The men that 'hardly ever attend church'... are they members of the congregation?

It is a sin to willfully neglect church services. If that is what happens, according to the Bible, church discipline needs to take place.

Best of luck to you in being a good witness to your fellow sisters and brothers in your church. Sounds to me like you are a blessing to the whole congregation.

The 2 men I was refering to are members. There are a couple other guys who have wives and children that are members but they are not. I don't know anything about church discipline, our pastor is pretty layed back, what can you do in a church with zero growth? Let a few things slide I suppose. Thanks for the good wishes, at this point I feel like the church has been a GREAT blessing to my family and me, not the other way around.

[PreachersWife2004]

25 of 81 attending... How very very sad.

No doubt. My son is the only child that attends Sunday School, and my family basically makes up the youth of the church.

Many of our young families transferred their membership when the three associate churches to the school amalgamated to make one church with a school. Can't say that I blame them - were I not the pastor's wife I would probably do the same.

While I don't believe a church's activities make or break a church, I personally want to belong to an active church, where there is a youth group and family ministry and friendship activities.

It was very weird to come to my husband's church after attending Emanuel Lutheran in Lansing, which has a membership of about 2500 souls (I think) and had an average late service attendance of 200. I certainly was not the loudest singer there.

But even Emanuel's attendance has declined recently. Too many people don't want to hear the truth preached anymore. They want to hear the stuff that makes them feel good about themselves. They want to hear that the things they are doing aren't sinful and that God is okay with them.

I am even more thankful now than ever that I attend a confessional Lutheran church where both Law and Gospel are taught and the emphasis is on what Christ did for us, not what we do for ourselves.

[DaRev]

25 of 81 attending... How very very sad.

Actually, overall, that's not a bad percentage. It's still a sad state.

[PreachersWife2004]

Thought I would add, though, that our attendance today was 42 people.

Not sure what to attribute that to. It may very well be that it was the first Sunday of the month which is when several people take communion, or it could also be that it was the first Sunday that our infant Isaac was in church.

Heh. I bet it was neither, actually.

[cerette]

Maylor wrote: what can you do in a church with zero growth? Let a few things slide I suppose

That is not an acceptable way of dealing with things. (I do not think you do it, I know what you meant in your post...) It is horrible if we in the WELS let our synod rot from the inside out. God does not let things slide.

[cerette]

Sounds like the church I belonged to back home. I had 3 kids in the Sunday school class.

If the Lord blesses us with a small congregation, Give thanks. if the Lord blesses us with a large congregation, Give thanks. In all circumstances, Give thanks to the Lord. But it is worrying when so many of the members do not show up!!!! (Same in the wels church I go to now)

I personally prefer small congregations, it feels more like a family.

[CaliforniaJosiah]

Some thoughts.....


1. I'm not a crusader (so read this with that in mind), but I was a part of my church for the better part of 2 years before I officially joined it. During that time, I attended congregational meetings (we have just 2 a year) but whether required to or not (I assume so), I kept my mouth shut - as a guest, I don't tell others how to do things. I was Confirmed last September and thus am a new member. I'm still pretty much keeping my ears and heart open and my mouth shut (OK, a LOT of you are wondering if this is the Josiah you all know and love...). Congregations are a FAMILY. They work best via consensus and respect. In every FAMILY, there are things that aren't exactly the way ONE PERSON may prefer - but it's not about ME.


2. A wise man (or woman) knows how and when to pick a battle. One of the GREAT things about Lutherans is adiaphora. That doesn't mean condoning wrong, but there's a difference between MY likes or perferences or understandings and WRONG.


3. My Dad is a pastor. He RESPECTED the one who spoke to him. Privately. Respectfully. Sharing thoughts/feelings/preferences. Even when Dad's views were 180 degrees different. AMAZING what a little mutual respect can do. And, while I know some have a "love it or leave it" attitude, anyone who has lived with anyone else for more than an hour knows that you'll quickly be on a desert isle by yourself with that 'tude.


Just misc. thoughts, directed to no one in particular...


Thank you.


Pax


- Josiah




.

[BabyLutheran]

Wow, I picked a larger church to visit and join I guess. We were welcomed as members today along with 15 other people (includes kids, 5 families total).

[DaRev]

There are pros and cons of small congregations.
While they are more "family like" and allows the pastor to know and minister effectively, the "family" tends to dictate too much which can stifle the ministry of the church and can ultimately kill a congregation.

[Lupinus]

they often also lack a lot of the programs larger churchs can support.

Still, I'll take a church about the size of mine any day, maybe a little larger.

[CaliforniaJosiah]

Sounds like the church I belonged to back home. I had 3 kids in the Sunday school class.

If the Lord blesses us with a small congregation, Give thanks. if the Lord blesses us with a large congregation, Give thanks. In all circumstances, Give thanks to the Lord. But it is worrying when so many of the members do not show up!!!! (Same in the wels church I go to now)

I personally prefer small congregations, it feels more like a family.

My father's church, which I grew up in, is quite small - maybe 150 or so on a Sunday. It grew rapidly after he started it and for maybe the first few years - then hit a platue and hasn't budged since.... I know something of struggles of that. Too few people, too few bucks, lots of things done on a scale very small. BUT I also knew everyone by name and there is a CARE there that is unmmistakable.

My s/o and I chose the church I now go together. The pastor, sermons, and a contemporary service that was still liturgical as well as weekly Eucharist were a large part of that. AND it's a very small church, we both felt like maybe we could help here, maybe we could be of some service....

My s/o and I have parted and she no longer attends. The smallest has brought a new dimension since there just aren't "available" girls my age in the small congregation - and everyone is "paired up" or I could sit with the widows! I HAVE been tempted to leave and find a church were .... well, you know. But I consciencely decided not to, in fact, instead, I decided to finally officially get Confirmed and join.

It's my family. These people embraced me. They are GOOD people. There isn't enough money - and I don't have much, there's not enough people to do the work - and I can do some. The pastors' theology is Lutheran, biblical, sound - and that means a LOT to me. The congregation loves and cares - and it shows. It's a considerable commute for me, now that I'm out of college, but I do it. And not only on Sundays since I'm now a Sunday School teacher and on the Board of Trustees. It's not about ME. It's about Jesus. And it's about HIS family - including the tiny part of it at my congregation. Including all the problems, the "interesting characters," challenges, limitations and all. Like my Dad says, "Ask not what your church can do for you, ask what you can do for your church.


Just MY perspective.


Pax


- Josiah




.

[Melethiel]

My church is rather small...our attendance is maybe 120 on a given Sunday. Unfortunately, it's rather lacking in children's and youth activities (not completely absent though), which is tough on my family. The campus ministry is excellent though, which initially drew me there. Maybe 25% of the congregation on a given Sunday is college students. It does have its advantages though, as it's very family-like. The passing of the peace lasts almost as long as the sermon :P (and don't get me started on announcements...:doh:)

[Lupinus]

Mines even smaller, about 85 or so on an average Sunday.

[DaRev]

I have to chuckle when I see these so-called "very small" churches with average attendance over 100 on Sunday. The average weekly attendance of Protestant congregations in the US is about 85. A "very small" church would have an average attendance well below that. In 2007 we averaged 55, which would constitute us as a "small" congregation.

[cerette]

Some thoughts.....


1. I'm not a crusader (so read this with that in mind), but I was a part of my church for the better part of 2 years before I officially joined it. During that time, I attended congregational meetings (we have just 2 a year) but whether required to or not (I assume so), I kept my mouth shut - as a guest, I don't tell others how to do things. I was Confirmed last September and thus am a new member. I'm still pretty much keeping my ears and heart open and my mouth shut (OK, a LOT of you are wondering if this is the Josiah you all know and love...). Congregations are a FAMILY. They work best via consensus and respect. In every FAMILY, there are things that aren't exactly the way ONE PERSON may prefer - but it's not about ME.


2. A wise man (or woman) knows how and when to pick a battle. One of the GREAT things about Lutherans is adiaphora. That doesn't mean condoning wrong, but there's a difference between MY likes or perferences or understandings and WRONG.


3. My Dad is a pastor. He RESPECTED the one who spoke to him. Privately. Respectfully. Sharing thoughts/feelings/preferences. Even when Dad's views were 180 degrees different. AMAZING what a little mutual respect can do. And, while I know some have a "love it or leave it" attitude, anyone who has lived with anyone else for more than an hour knows that you'll quickly be on a desert isle by yourself with that 'tude.


Just misc. thoughts, directed to no one in particular...


Thank you.


Pax


- Josiah




.
I like your thoughts, Josiah. :)

[cerette]

I have to chuckle when I see these so-called "very small" churches with average attendance over 100 on Sunday. The average weekly attendance of Protestant congregations in the US is about 85. A "very small" church would have an average attendance well below that. In 2007 we averaged 55, which would constitute us as a "small" congregation.
And I used to think my church back home with 40 members (includes all kids) was small.. Often times we were a bunch of 5 or so each Sunday.

[BabyLutheran]

Wow, I had no idea the averages were that small. We have 3 adult Sunday school classes every week. All grade levels have classes as well, 2 grades in one classroom up to 5th, then middle and high school have their own separate classroom. We had 25-30 children in 2nd service alone go up for the little children's time. And our pastors definitely do not water the gospel down. I am not bragging, I am just happy God is doing his work through our church.

[CaliforniaJosiah]

I have 3 kids in my middle school Sunday School class - all girls.

I prepare for it as if I had 300. And they bless me every week.



.

[cerette]

I have 3 kids in my middle school Sunday School class - all girls.

I prepare for it as if I had 300. And they bless me every week.



.
Thats a wonderful attitude

[LilLamb219]

Last weekend, we had 172 attended...and that was split up over 3 different services.

[Melethiel]

I have to chuckle when I see these so-called "very small" churches with average attendance over 100 on Sunday. The average weekly attendance of Protestant congregations in the US is about 85. A "very small" church would have an average attendance well below that. In 2007 we averaged 55, which would constitute us as a "small" congregation.
Well, some of us come from a baptigelical megachurch background...:sorry: Compared to 2000, 120 is small...

[DaRev]

Well, some of us come from a baptigelical megachurch background...:sorry: Compared to 2000, 120 is small...

True. But those churches with attendance over 1000 represent less than 1% of protestant churches overall.

[LutheranChick]

A Lutheran pastor who consecrates the elements after being consecrated is INSANE. I would not attend that parish nor would my family. The bible is the sole authority for all Church matters, but if it doesn't say to think of a purple flamingo while recieving the body of Christ, then why not think of one during reception? Christ does not say that his body and blood will leave the elements. Therefore it is not Lutheran to believe that they magically leave. I guess something the WELS and I do not agree with.

I wish you would choose your words a bit more carefully. We can disagree here without any name-calling. FYI- you just called the majority of ELS pastors (very possibly all of them) insane, and I take offense to that.

I spoke with my pastor last week and he told me it is agreed in the ELS that the bread and wine remains consecrated for as long as the communion service is going on. If someone needs to be communed after the service has been completed, the Words of Institution are spoken again. If a fire erupts in the middle of the communion service and the bread and wine burn up, we do not say that the Body and Blood of Christ burned up.

However, we do not say this is the only 'right way'. Again- Adiophora (or however it is spelled :) )

[Zecryphon]

Well, some of us come from a baptigelical megachurch background...:sorry: Compared to 2000, 120 is small...
Yeah I used to attend a church that boasted having 10,000+ members and a budget in the tens of millions of dollars. So the church that I go to now is a definite change. We get maybe 50-60 per service. Maybe.

[cerette]

I wish you would choose your words a bit more carefully. We can disagree here without any name-calling. FYI- you just called the majority of ELS pastors (very possibly all of them) insane, and I take offense to that.

I spoke with my pastor last week and he told me it is agreed in the ELS that the bread and wine remains consecrated for as long as the communion service is going on. If someone needs to be communed after the service has been completed, the Words of Institution are spoken again. If a fire erupts in the middle of the communion service and the bread and wine burn up, we do not say that the Body and Blood of Christ burned up.

However, we do not say this is the only 'right way'. Again- Adiophora (or however it is spelled :) )
In my small church back home the pastor counts the members before Communion so there won't be any extra wafels. I personally I don't see that to be necessary, but he said he did it in order to avoid people from starting to wonder "what about the leftovers"...When he told me that I actually started thinking "why would it be a bad thing to have left overs" so I am not sure his thinking turned out the way he had planned..

[porterross]

In my small church back home the pastor counts the members before Communion so there won't be any extra wafels. I personally I don't see that to be necessary, but he said he did it in order to avoid people from starting to wonder "what about the leftovers"...When he told me that I actually started thinking "why would it be a bad thing to have left overs" so I am not sure his thinking turned out the way he had planned..


I'm sorry, but I'm getting hilarious images of Belgian waffles at the communion rail and being Monday, I needed the laugh. :D

[BabyLutheran]

I'm sorry, but I'm getting hilarious images of Belgian waffles at the communion rail and being Monday, I needed the laugh. :D
that would be cool, a lot more people would be in favor of weekly communion if you served waffles

[LutheranChick]

that would be cool, a lot