CF going to compromise

[Followers4christ]

Amendment to Non-nicene Annoucement


[1] Non-Nicene Theology is renamed Unorthodox Theology and moved to the Theology forum category;

[2] A fellowship forum is created for unorthodox members as a sub-forum of Unorthodox Theology;

[3] All existing unorthodox theology discussion threads are moved to the Unorthodox Theology forum; all existing threads in the unorthodox Congregations are moved to the fellowship sub-forum.

We go live January 31st.

Over the next month, staff will go in and clean up any promotion type posts or threads. Posts or threads older than 30 days will be left alone to scroll off the page, unless promotion is especially egregious. No violations will be issued for posts made prior to Jan. 31.

Promotion of non-Nicene beliefs will still be covered under the rules, and members will have to be careful to avoid promoting beliefs in the fellowship and theology forums. Posts intended to inform, rather than promote, are still allowed.

http://christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=43099420&postcount=1

http://christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=43099848&postcount=1

http://christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=43098602&postcount=1

[BAFRIEND]

A compromise ?

My understanding is this was part of the original plan and there was some remorse for not making this clear a few days ago.

At least according to Tonks.

But the rule on promoting non-nicence theology still stands and will be enforced in those forums and they will not have their own moderators as I understand it.

It is hard to say what happened: but note the amendment was to the announcement and also that those existing threads that promote non-nicene are to be deleted as well as promoting threads.

If the same circumstances were imposed on OBOB- I would be outta here on the next train.

[Hentenza]

I am fine with it. The promotion issue is enforceable.

[JPPT1974]

I'll go with the flow
No matter what occurs
Whatever they say goes and rules!

[BAFRIEND]

I'll go with the flow
No matter what occurs
Whatever they say goes and rules!
I was going to say something smart allecky about you and LeeD both being Baptists.

What I guess I will say is that is easy for you to say because your forum obviously has nothing to worry about.

[Hentenza]

And neither does yours Bafriend.:wave:

[Rochir]

Yeah, as long as it's not happening to any of your home fora - why bother OR care?

[NewGuy101]

Yeah, as long as it's not happening to any of your home fora - why bother OR care?
we already got screwed, its the liberals turn :D

[Rochir]

we already got screwed, its the liberals turn :D

No!

It's more like

1. Libs got screwed before 777
2. Libs got some equal treatment between 777 and Lee's ow´nership
3. Libs again get screwed!

If you think that's fair, many do not! And they are/were paying members of this site as well! :doh:

[NewGuy101]

No!

It's more like

1. Libs got screwed before 777
2. Libs got some equal treatment between 777 and Lee's ow´nership
3. Libs again get screwed!

If you think that's fair, many do not! And they are/were paying members of this site as well! :doh:
oh wells

Gospel > perversions

[Tonks]

A compromise ?

My understanding is this was part of the original plan and there was some remorse for not making this clear a few days ago.

At least according to Tonks.


Yup. The way it was going to be setup was the debate...and whether it would appear in Theology or Debate. Likewise, there are likely be some restrictions on the full-on debate over every religion in Non-Christian Religions to refocus what Christ brings to the table as it were.

[tulc]

Gospel > perversions

...I guess that would depend on what you mean by Gospel and your definition of perversion, huh? :scratch:
tulc(just a thought) :)

[Ishida]

oh wells

Gospel > perversions
In the end, this will never ring truer.

[NewGuy101]

...I guess that would depend on what you mean by Gospel and your definition of perversion, huh? :scratch:
tulc(just a thought) :)
Gospel: orthodox christianity

[Ishida]

I'll go with the flow
No matter what occurs
Whatever they say goes and rules!
Pretty much on the same page with you.

[NewGuy101]

I'm thinking about joining the new orthodox WWMC, who agrees?

[tulc]

Gospel: orthodox christianity

autocephalous, autonomous, semi-autonomous, Oriental Orthodox Churches or self styled Orthodox churches? :scratch:
tulc(and how do you square that with your faith icon?) :)

[NewGuy101]

autocephalous, autonomous, semi-autonomous, Oriental Orthodox Churches or self styled Orthodox churches? :scratch:
tulc(and how do you square that with your faith icon?) :)

CF orthodox

[tulc]

CF orthodox

Ahhh! North-American Baptist? :)
tulc(isn't it like what ever the King/owner is that's what the country/site considers orthodox?) :D

[NewGuy101]

Ahhh! North-American Baptist? :)
tulc(isn't it like what ever the King/owner is that's what the country/site considers orthodox?) :D
Well most conservatives agree with him therefore I do :cool:

[tulc]

Well most conservatives agree with him therefore I do

...so you know what he believes? :scratch:
tulc(doesn't know his beliefs at all) :sorry:

[NewGuy101]

...so you know what he believes? :scratch:
tulc(doesn't know his beliefs at all) :sorry:
hes a conservative christian

[tulc]

hes a conservative christian

Well ok, the thing is the phrase "conservative Christian" covers an awful lot of territory. Do you see what I mean? :scratch: Don't you think you should get to know what he believes before you say you agree with him? :)
tulc(just a thought, don't want it come back and bite you later on) ;)

[jive4005]

Man tells his plans to God. God laughs.

rev

[BAFRIEND]

I'm thinking about joining the new orthodox WWMC, who agrees?
Does my FSB extend to the new orthodox WWMC ?

In any event, no thanks... ^_^

[BAFRIEND]

Yup. The way it was going to be setup was the debate...and whether it would appear in Theology or Debate. Likewise, there are likely be some restrictions on the full-on debate over every religion in Non-Christian Religions to refocus what Christ brings to the table as it were.
Thanks for the info. Tonks... I don't want you to think that I have any negative thoughts towards you over our exchanges the past week or so. :wave:

[synger]

autocephalous, autonomous, semi-autonomous, Oriental Orthodox Churches or self styled Orthodox churches? :scratch:
tulc(and how do you square that with your faith icon?) :)

He may use "orthodox" as a general term rather than a denominational one. Small-o orthodox Christian doctrine tends to be the general things that the major Christian traditions and doctrine-streams agree on. Big-O Orthodox is a particular group among Christians (they may not see themselves as a denomination, because of their age, but many outside their group do).

Even Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity#Beliefs)admits that there are certain doctrines or ideas that most Christians hold in common.

The question on CF is, for purposes of this bulletin board, what guidelines do we use to frame discussions of "Christian" doctrine? The "ecumenical creeds" form a baseline that the vast majority of Christian traditions and denominations can agree on. (these three creeds -- apostles, nicene, athanasian -- are so called because they are not particular to one denomination or another, and they were developed by ecumenical councils before the Church officially split into the major divisions we see today)

I often use "orthodox" to mean "the core of Christian belief", rather than just using it to denote those who self-identify as Orthodox believers.

But then, I use "catholic" a lot, too.

And it's not just a Lutheran thing... *grins* I did that when I was Reformed. I'm a recent Lutheran convert.

[tulc]

He may use "orthodox" as a general term rather than a denominational one. Small-o orthodox Christian doctrine tends to be the general things that the major Christian traditions and doctrine-streams agree on. Big-O Orthodox is a particular group among Christians (they may not see themselves as a denomination, because of their age, but many outside their group do) (emph. added)

Oh yeah that last part was one of the first things I learned on CF. :eek:
tulc(just before I found out I was liberal also) ;)

[synger]

Yeah, me, too. *grins* I had no idea they viewed themselves that way, but it makes a lot of sense if you think about their perspective.

I learned SO much during my time in Theology. What a blessing.

[NewGuy101]

Does my FSB extend to the new orthodox WWMC ?

In any event, no thanks... ^_^
the mods are going to FSB me soon too

shucks ;)

[jive4005]

Jesus' church must be in there someplace!

rev

[tulc]

Jesus' church must be in there someplace!

Must be in where someplace? :scratch:
tulc(a little confused) :sorry:

[synger]

Jesus' church must be in there someplace!

rev
Most likely. I fully expect that the Church is much broader than my narrow little mind can comprehend. I do not doubt that His Church is alive and well in WWMC, and in the people who post in every forum of this place. His will and strength are far beyond my poor, limited vision.

In truth, I think the problem is less liberal vs. conservative, or confessional vs. unorthodox. I think the real problem is in the lack of civil discussion. We (humans, not any specific group) too often cannot disagree with others without also being accusatory and/or defensive.

It is the accusatory/attacking/vitriolic hyperbole that makes for rules violations. In my opinion that is why so many conservatives who may feel like they are just "telling the truth" can sometimes come off as unloving and harsh.

Miss Manners would probably be the first to decry the sort of statement that "tells the truth" in such a way as to cut down and hurt others. I see it in my friends in non-religious conversations, too. People use "telling the truth" as a weapon. "Well, she IS overweight and unhealthy. It's the truth!"

No one suggests that we should not share the truth with one another. But there are ways to share it that are loving without being compromising. It's much harder to do that just to make a statement and say "it's the truth. accept it or suck it up". But it's much more worth while, in my opinion.

[tulc]

No one suggests that we should not share the truth with one another. But there are ways to share it that are loving without being compromising. It's much harder to do that just to make a statement and say "it's the truth. accept it or suck it up". But it's much more worth while, in my opinion.

QFT :amen:
tulc(and one more!) :amen:

[NewGuy101]

Most likely. I fully expect that the Church is much broader than my narrow little mind can comprehend. I do not doubt that His Church is alive and well in WWMC, and in the people who post in every forum of this place. His will and strength are far beyond my poor, limited vision.

In truth, I think the problem is less liberal vs. conservative, or confessional vs. unorthodox. I think the real problem is in the lack of civil discussion. We (humans, not any specific group) too often cannot disagree with others without also being accusatory and/or defensive.

It is the accusatory/attacking/vitriolic hyperbole that makes for rules violations. In my opinion that is why so many conservatives who may feel like they are just "telling the truth" can sometimes come off as unloving and harsh.

Miss Manners would probably be the first to decry the sort of statement that "tells the truth" in such a way as to cut down and hurt others. I see it in my friends in non-religious conversations, too. People use "telling the truth" as a weapon. "Well, she IS overweight and unhealthy. It's the truth!"

No one suggests that we should not share the truth with one another. But there are ways to share it that are loving without being compromising. It's much harder to do that just to make a statement and say "it's the truth. accept it or suck it up". But it's much more worth while, in my opinion.
I think we have become too liberal for my comfort. We focus so much into making Christianity easy for people that we dont preach the Gospel as a whole. We forget that we are supposed to make people unfomrtabel. The Gospel is offensive, it shows people that they are sinners. Through that God wil helpe people see the truth and open their eyes.

[MrJim]

I think we have become too liberal for my comfort. We focus so much into making Christianity easy for people that we dont preach the Gospel as a whole. We forget that we are supposed to make people unfomrtabel. The Gospel is offensive, it shows people that they are sinners. Through that God wil helpe people see the truth and open their eyes.

Nope, would disagree with ya on the bolded part. It's the Holy Spirit's job to make people "uncomfortable", not ours...I think too many delight in being the Holy Spirit.;)

[synger]

I agree that too often the message is so watered down that it's barely recognizable. I went to a 'tent meeting' on the National Mall this past summer and I was shocked. They talked about becoming Christian so you could "be a better person" and "handle tough situations in your life". That is SO not the gospel. Those may be outcomes, but they are not reasons.

We must declare the Law so that it can convict people of their sinfulness and need. And we must share the joy of the Gospel, which is God's gift of grace through faith in Christ's redeeming work on the cross.

But we still must remember that we are only tools, and that we must love people where they are, not where we want them to be. The Law and the Gospel are not sledgehammers. Well, actually, they are, but only in God's hands. If I take up the Law and try to use it as a sledgehammer, I'll do more damage than not. But if I take it up and present it with love and compassion, and let God do the actual hammering, I am much less likely to be a barrier to His work.

[NewGuy101]

Nope, would disagree with ya on the bolded part. It's the Holy Spirit's job to make people "uncomfortable", not ours...I think too many delight in being the Holy Spirit.;)
If ya says so, Jesus sure made lot of people mad when he was here with us. That's a part that people NEVER mention.

[synger]

Exactly. You said it much more clearly than I.

[NewGuy101]

But we still must remember that we are only tools, and that we must love people where they are, not where we want them to be. The Law and the Gospel are not sledgehammers. Well, actually, they are, but only in God's hands. If I take up the Law and try to use it as a sledgehammer, I'll do more damage than not. But if I take it up and present it with love and compassion, and let God do the actual hammering, I am much less likely to be a barrier to His work.
Again, for liberals anything that shows them the LAW is a chance for them to call us close minded biggots.

[synger]

Well, sure he did. He was giving bitter medicine. Of course people didn't like it at first. Especially if they refused to understand that they were ill.

The people he irritated were those who refused to hear. That will always happen. I'm certainly not saying that we must go through life tip-toeing through the tulips of lovey-dovey watered-down Christianity. God forbid!!

I expect people to disagree with me. Loudly and often. It's one of the ways I know I have the right doctrines. *laughs*

All I'm saying is that we should not lose sight of the face of God in others, even those who seem the most pigheaded and dangerous. There IS a way to share the truth without compromise and without use it as a sledgehammer. With God's grace, He'll teach me how to do His work in a manner that brings glory to Him and the Church.

[MrJim]

Again, for liberals anything that shows them the LAW is a chance for them to call us close minded biggots.

Is that what the gospel is about~showing sinners the LAW?:confused:

[NewGuy101]

Is that what the gospel is about~showing sinners the LAW?:confused:
The law convicts, the gospel shows grace. Both are needed.

[MrJim]

The law convicts, the gospel shows grace. Both are needed.

Spell out the LAW for me...what exactly are we talking about here~quick tour through the OT? Ten (well 9 really now I guess) Commandments?

[tulc]

Ahhh! the classic mistake! The Gospel does indeed offend, but Jesus doesn't call us to be offensive, see the difference? :scratch:
tulc(a lot of people make that same mistake) :)

[rmw8855]

Moving this discussion to the Rules & Policy Subforum

[synger]

Spell out the LAW for me...what exactly are we talking about here~quick tour through the OT? Ten (well 9 really now I guess) Commandments?

The law is throughout the scriptures. God commands us to obey. To love Him with all our soul, might, and strength, and to love our neighbor as ourselves. And yes, the ten commandments go into that in more detail. We fail to fulfill the law. Without the gospel of grace, we would be lost.

[higgs2]

Jesus did make people mad... the self righteous, the pharisees, the ones who prayed loud in front of others to make themselves seem "holy"...

The ones who wanted to stone the adulteress, I bet they were mad.

The power hungry leaders who were threatened by him...

[higgs2]

He brought us a new commandment that is written on our hearts and not on a tablet.... to love one another as he loves us. And it's a *lot* harder to follow than a bunch of rules. The proof is here.

[MrJim]

The law is throughout the scriptures. God commands us to obey. To love Him with all our soul, might, and strength, and to love our neighbor as ourselves. And yes, the ten commandments go into that in more detail. We fail to fulfill the law. Without the gospel of grace, we would be lost.

Again, Law? Separation from menstruating women, stoning adulterers?

Clarify please.

[jive4005]

Just as long as it's all said with "love". Love MUST be a primary motivation.

rev

[BAFRIEND]

Exactly. You said it much more clearly than I.
Are we discussing the rule, or debating/promoting non-nicene here ?

[synger]

I think we started out discussing the new rule, and it's gotten into a more practical bent of how we, as Christians, can best share the hope we have in Christ.

[MrJim]

don't think it should have ended up here in the policies thread...

[Nadiine]

removing - not worth it.

First post in this section already gets heat and I didn't pay attn. to the dates.
- the statement on liberalism is true as I see it - true to form.

My biggest mistake was posting in the wrong section & not paying attn. to where I was.

BYE

[GreenMunchkin]

Hullo, everyone! Hugs hugs and more hugs all round :)

Tell ya, reading quintessential CF "liberal vs. conservative"ness is sooo weird when you read it as an outsider.

What's most important is that you're all such lovely people who seriously love Jesus. Isn't it fab?! I think it's fab! :clap: We will all eat fried chicken together in Heaven. Yay!