How does the ELCA pastorate work?

[BabyLutheran]

Our church has an associate pastor in his mid 30's (Chris), and a temporary senior pastor (David) who came all the way from Fargo to spend the winter here in Va Beach (what a sacrifice). Anyway, there is a "calling" committee working to find a permanent senior pastor.

How does that work, why can't they just promote Chris to senior pastor? Is there some sort of experience and time requirement prior to being a senior pastor?

Anyway, we enjoy both our pastors immensely and will be sorry to see Pastor Dave leave when the new permanent pastor is hired.

Today he spoke on how God chooses us, tied right in with the stuff all you guys were telling me a couple of weeks back about election.

[Studeclunker]

Our church has an associate pastor in his mid 30's (Chris Bowen), and a temporary senior pastor (David Johnson) who came all the way from Fargo to spend the winter here in Va Beach (what a sacrifice). Anyway, there is a "calling" committee working to find a permanent senior pastor.

How does that work, why can't they just promote Chris to senior pastor? Is there some sort of experience and time requirement prior to being a senior pastor?

Anyway, we enjoy both our pastors immensely and will be sorry to see Pastor Dave leave when the new permanent pastor is hired.

Today he spoke on how God chooses us, tied right in with the stuff all you guys were telling me a couple of weeks back about election.

I haven't been involved with your denomination for quite some years (I left for LCMS). That said, if your associate pastor is willing to take on the congregation there are only two requirements:
1) He must be an ordained pastor of the ELCA.
2) Your congregation must present him with the call.

It used to be as simple as that. Your associate pastor may not have the skills to handle a congregation the size of the one you attend. He also may not have completed his vicarage. Then again, your congregational leaders may not want him for the senior pastor's position. Lastly, Pastor Chris may not want the job. These details are things you will have to investigate with your church council. Also, it might help to have a talk with Pastor Chris. Even if he doesn't want the job, he'd probably be very much complimented with your confidence in him.

[BabyLutheran]

I really hit it off with him, so maybe I will tell him how much he has already meant to me. He leads the vespers service on Thursday nights, which is really just starting (5 of us in it last week...lol). I really love it though, no matter how small. And he leads it the same as he would if there were a thousand of us there!

It could be that he will end up being called, maybe the committee is just doing its due diligence first. I am sure God will bring a great person, even if not Chris!

I just wondered if it were sort of like the Methodists, who just transfer pastors right and left.

[Willy]

Each congregation is different. But in some places it is recommended that an assistant pastor not become the senior pastor at the same church. Frankly, I am not sure why this has been an operating assumption is some places, but it has been.

[RevCowboy]

Our church has an associate pastor in his mid 30's (Chris), and a temporary senior pastor (David) who came all the way from Fargo to spend the winter here in Va Beach (what a sacrifice). Anyway, there is a "calling" committee working to find a permanent senior pastor.

How does that work, why can't they just promote Chris to senior pastor? Is there some sort of experience and time requirement prior to being a senior pastor?

Anyway, we enjoy both our pastors immensely and will be sorry to see Pastor Dave leave when the new permanent pastor is hired.

Today he spoke on how God chooses us, tied right in with the stuff all you guys were telling me a couple of weeks back about election.

Interestingly enough the congregation that I am doing my vicarage/internship at just decided to call a second pastor. They have had a vicar for 8 of the past 9 years (that means 8 different seminary students) but they have gotten to the size where they need more staff. One of the decisions they have to make is whether they want an associate pastor or an assistant pastor. So its interesting that you bring this up.

Your senior pastor is interim, meaning that he is long term fill-in while the congregation goes through the call process, which often takes a year or two.

Anyways, I don't understand why your congregation would have a senior pastor and an associate. The only situation that would necessitate a senior pastor would be if the congregation wanted an assistant pastor. However, when a second pastor is called an associate that means the two pastors are equal.
Now that being said, Pastor Chris may have been called to a specific ministry (youth, music, visiation etc...) and doesn't want to be the senior pastor. Also, if a senior pastor, with an assistant, leaves a congregation for whatever reason, it is usually convention that the assistant also resigns and then can be recalled by the congregation. Perhaps your congregation wanted an assistant but also knew that their current senior pastors was close to retirement or something. So by calling Pastor Chris an associate he could stay without having to be re-called after the senior pastor left. This is actually the only reason that I could think of as to why Pastor Chris simply wouldn't slide into the senior pastor role.

As far as requirements for being a pastor, one only needs to have an MDiv from an approved ELCA/ELCIC institution and to have passed colloquy. Once a person has completed their MDiv at seminary, they can be called to any position. There is no age restriction, however congregations may have specific preferences. However, at least in Canada, a congregation needing a pastor cannot be too choosy with such a severe shortage of pastors, they might have to wait several years. In my case it is quite likely that I will be called to be only pastor at congregation when I finish seminary in the spring of 2009 at the age of 26.

To be honest I find it somewhat disturbing that your congregation would be calling a senior pastor when it already has an associate. Unless Pastor Chris is really against being the senior pastor, I would wager that there is a feeling in the congregation that he is too young and some politics that are keeping him from taking the role. I could be wrong.

I was going to get into why I think assistant pastors are wrong, but this post is long enough already so I will save it for another time.

[DaRev]

I do know that in the ELCA a pastor can request a call. This is forbidden in the LCMS.

There was a congregation that left the ELCA and joined the LCMS a while back. When their pastor received a call the congregation was furious with him. They thought he didn't want to be there. He had to explain to them the difference in policies.

[DaRev]

As far as requirements for being a pastor, one only needs to have an MDiv from an approved ELCA/ELCIC institution and to have passed colloquy.

Do all ELCA/ELCIC pastors have the MDiv? I wholeheartedly agree that all pastors should have the MDiv. Unfortunately in the LCMS, such is not the case. There are many who are certified for ordination but do not have the MDiv degree. There are even those who are doing word and sacrament ministry without yet being ordained. :doh:

[RevCowboy]

I do know that in the ELCA a pastor can request a call. This is forbidden in the LCMS.

There was a congregation that left the ELCA and joined the LCMS a while back. When their pastor received a call the congregation was furious with him. They thought he didn't want to be there. He had to explain to them the difference in policies.

I wasn't aware that there was a difference.

As far as ELCA/ELCIC I understand the process is we can phone the Bishop and let him know that we are open to being called, and then the Bishop will put our name on a list of potential candidates for congregations looking for a call.

In terms of the LCC, it is my understanding that a pastor's first call is simply assigned, there isn't any choice in the matter? Is this true?

[DaRev]

In terms of the LCC, it is my understanding that a pastor's first call is simply assigned, there isn't any choice in the matter? Is this true?

Yes, as it also is with the LCMS. During our placement interviews at seminary we can request a part of the country, but even that is no guarantee. It is not at all advisable to turn down a first call. The chances of getting another one is next to nil. Only in extreme cases is this done. On call day at the seminary (which is usually the third week in April) a majority of candidates have absolutely no clue where their call is until it is announced during the call service.

[RevCowboy]

Do all ELCA/ELCIC pastors have the MDiv? I wholeheartedly agree that all pastors should have the MDiv. Unfortunately in the LCMS, such is not the case. There are many who are certified for ordination but do not have the MDiv degree. There are even those who are doing word and sacrament ministry without yet being ordained. :doh:

In order to be ordained you have to have an MDiv or BTh in the ELCIC. And the only way to get a BTh is if you are over 35 when you start seminary. Even then, often folks over 35 who want to go to seminary without a degree often have to go get one first because only a max of 10% of the seminary student body can be BTh students.

The ELCIC only has two seminaries for all of Canada. One in the East and one in the West. While it means students have to travel, it also means that there is a very standardized and well monitored by the National Church seminary education for Canadian pastors.

There are rare exceptions where a congregation cannot get a pastor to come because they are too small or too remote. The Bishop can license a lay person for sacramental ministry in these situations, but it is exceptionally rare and closely monitored when it does happen.

I think that its a good thing that the ELCIC has high standards and strict requirements for ordained and sacramental ministry, but it is a contributing factor in our desperate pastor shortage. There is joke here, "The ELCIC pension plan is permanent interim ministry."

[RevCowboy]

Yes, as it also is with the LCMS. During our placement interviews at seminary we can request a part of the country, but even that is no guarantee. It is not at all advisable to turn down a first call. The chances of getting another one is next to nil. Only in extreme cases is this done. On call day at the seminary (which is usually the third week in April) a majority of candidates have absolutely no clue where their call is until it is announced during the call service.

I can't decide if I think that is a really good idea or not. Our first call is essentially like any other call, except that students are more desperate to make money because they aren't coming out of a call.

But the call process is such that if a congregation actually issued you a letter of call everyone (bishop, congregation, you) would already know that you are a good match for that congregation. It used to be in my grandfather's day that you would just get a letter of call without any warning. These days the whole thing is managed through the Bishop's office and so there are forms filled out by both church and pastors as well as interviews before a call is ever issued.

My great uncle was the president of the ELCC (pre-merger synod) form 1970-85. He would routinely go to down to Luther seminary in Minnesota and tell 5 or 6 students that they were coming to Canada. If they refused, if often took them 2 or 3 years to get another call.

[DaRev]

I can't decide if I think that is a really good idea or not. Our first call is essentially like any other call, except that students are more desperate to make money because they aren't coming out of a call.

But the call process is such that if a congregation actually issued you a letter of call everyone (bishop, congregation, you) would already know that you are a good match for that congregation. It used to be in my grandfather's day that you would just get a letter of call without any warning. These days the whole thing is managed through the Bishop's office and so there are forms filled out by both church and pastors as well as interviews before a call is ever issued.

My great uncle was the president of the ELCC (pre-merger synod) form 1970-85. He would routinely go to down to Luther seminary in Minnesota and tell 5 or 6 students that they were coming to Canada. If they refused, if often took them 2 or 3 years to get another call.

In the LCMS, our district presidents have an info form that we fill out for their file. It's called the "Self-Evaluation Tool." This information can be distributed to other DP's. Congregations that are vacant will receive a list of names from their DP which includes this information on each man. The pastor usually has no idea that his name is on a list somewhere, so in many cases, a call can come as a surprise to the pastor.
In many cases, the congregation will go down the list and call each pastor to see whether or not they would consider a call. Those who do not desire to receive another call will ask to have their name removed from consideration. I have received a couple such calls from congregation call committees, but my name has been on more lists that I have not been aware of until after the fact.