The presence of God, a learned thing?

[Khaleas]

I'm currently reading Discovering God through the daily practice of his presence (Orthodox spirituality for everyday living) by Anthony M Coniaris.

pg. 18 he writes this:
"We are truly enveloped by God's presence constantly, but because it is not a physical presence but a spiritual one, we need to practice it throughout the day: to stop and remind ourselves that God is with us; to try to see Him everywhere about us; to try to capture daily the sense of His presence. If we try consciously to realize His nearness, we shall experience ever more powerfully Hi strenghtening presence in our lives.
I know that many people believe theoretically in practicing the presence of God. But the secret is to believe it enough as to practice it every day under every circumstance and difficulty. Practice it until you are absolutely convinced that God is with you, until you feel His presence. It is by practicing the Presence that the Presence becomes real. "

I know a lot of this is AYP (and I have emailed my priest) but the whole idea of somehow forcefully practicing the presence of God just seems a bit odd to me. Maybe it's just the way it's worded and the word choice but I got really hung up on this...
I mean we should do everything we do for God and I guess what he is trying to point out is that we should think about the fact that God is present to watch all we do (good and bad) and to think about that before we do things (esp the bad ones :blush: ).
But the statement is that by practicing His presence He becomes real... to me it seems that if you aren't practicing hard enough and so, he doesn't become real. So does it mean that if I feel that God is in my presence without practicing, he's less real than if I had practiced?
And what is real anyways?

[jckstraw72]

i think it basically means the same as St. Paul says -- pray without ceasing. This is something we must force ourselves to do, and in doing so we bring ourselves into the presence of God.

[Thekla]

I've not read the book,

but perhaps this is not too far off from any ascesis we practice ... fasting, prayer rule, almsgiving. When we set aside (agia) time, money,etc. in dedication to God this may result in the possibility of "opening" us to realize God's presence.

[Kirkhaven]

Though I have not heard of this book, I have read one very similar to it titled The Practice of the Presence of God. Written by a Catholic monk, 'practicing the presence' was carried out in all of the monk's daily assignements. It is a constant reminder, and an openess to pray to God without always using words, but using actions instead. What seemed to be random events in your life now takes on a different meaning when graciously accepted in this manner.

Is it easy? No! I agree with Thekla who stated that "this is not too far off from any ascesis we practice ... fasting, prayer rule, almsgiving. When we set aside (agia) time, money,etc. in dedication to God this may result in the possibility of "opening" us to realize God's presence."

It is certainly difficult at first to constantly pull oneself into a constant and prayerful state, especially if one is working in a secular job. Brother Lawrence, who wrote the volume I mentioned above, perhaps found it a bit easier because he was a monk. Living within a cell and a community of others who were by vocation cloistered away from secular distractions, they were more likely to find the 'practice' easier to adapt to.

I have done this, and found it to be quite difficult, but not impossible. Indeed, it has allowed me to pray without ceasing to the Father and to work with and for him. My current blog covers one unique situation which discusses in some detail this cherished method of prayer.

[buzuxi02]

I'm currently reading Discovering God through the daily practice of his presence (Orthodox spirituality for everyday living) by Anthony M Coniaris.

pg. 18 he writes this:
"We are truly enveloped by God's presence constantly, but because it is not a physical presence but a spiritual one, we need to practice it throughout the day: to stop and remind ourselves that God is with us; to try to see Him everywhere about us; to try to capture daily the sense of His presence. If we try consciously to realize His nearness, we shall experience ever more powerfully Hi strenghtening presence in our lives.
I know that many people believe theoretically in practicing the presence of God. But the secret is to believe it enough as to practice it every day under every circumstance and difficulty. Practice it until you are absolutely convinced that God is with you, until you feel His presence. It is by practicing the Presence that the Presence becomes real. "

I know a lot of this is AYP (and I have emailed my priest) but the whole idea of somehow forcefully practicing the presence of God just seems a bit odd to me. Maybe it's just the way it's worded and the word choice but I got really hung up on this...
I mean we should do everything we do for God and I guess what he is trying to point out is that we should think about the fact that God is present to watch all we do (good and bad) and to think about that before we do things (esp the bad ones :blush: ).
But the statement is that by practicing His presence He becomes real... to me it seems that if you aren't practicing hard enough and so, he doesn't become real. So does it mean that if I feel that God is in my presence without practicing, he's less real than if I had practiced?
And what is real anyways?
What does the author imply by saying "practise the prescense of God"? Does he give an explanation of it?

It sounds odd to me as well, from the excerpt it makes no sense to me.

If he means to pray, fast, give alms, partake of the sacraments, be good, etc etc, then he should just say it or instead simply call it theosis. If the author's intentions is the same as our conclusions in this thread, then possibly he clarifies it later on in the book and besically he is instructing the reader in carrying out the gospel.

[chaela]

http://lookup.avatars.yahoo.com/ewimages?enc=rpeBXl5FScHQTySrXBDw3R.nP0yQw4iR&size=large&type=png


I'm currently trying to get back into it again, and I found this thread by doing a search in CF on "practicing the presence of God"!

I have read "The Practice of the Presence of God" by Brother Lawrence as well, many times and I absolutely love it.

When I've put it into practice -- simply reminding myself that anything I am doing or am about to do can be done with the motivation of worshiping God -- I am amazed at how even my physical energy is increased, and a burden is somehow lifted. The distinction between "sacred" and "secular" is erased, for everything we do we can do for the glory of God. Scripture even encourages this (1 Cor 10:31).

This is just my speculation, but I think something is really happening with that, because, since God knows our thoughts and the motivation behind what we do, if we readjust our motivation to be for His glory, He knows that this is what we're doing and responds by giving us that extra boost of mental, spiritual, and even physical strength to carry it out. Soon, I feel like I'm just dancing through the day in a strange kind of way.

The challenge is maintaining this approach 24/7, and I've fallen off that wagon more times than I care to admit, lol!


______________________________

"For as in Adam all die,

so in Christ all will be made alive."

~ 1 Corinthians 15:22 ~

[Monica, child of God]

I have not read the book but the concept reminds me of this verse:

You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart.
--Jeremiah 29:13

[This was the first verse my son ever memorized so it brings back memories :sniff:]

M.

[flod logic]

Here's (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/lawrence/practice.titlepage.html) a link to an online version of the book a few people have mentioned in the thread so far.

[HisKid1973]

I went to a seminar in my early years in Christ back in the 70's..It really helped me to draw closer to Christ and helped me in my way of maturing in Christ...You keep your thought life always aware that Christ sees and hears what your doing on a moment by moment basis and is aware of your thought life...Makes you aware of what you watch, say or do..And to keep your though life in check..Helps me to keep a short list and be transparent and close to the Lord before I sleep..Helps me to forgive...I usally tune in to the Lord when I am fully awake and stay aware of the Holy Spirit bringing me people to pray for and encourage in Christ throughout the days..It leaves me incredibly peaceful...peace to you ...Kim

[Philothei]

Hey Khaleas.... I would not pay too much attention to that book. Like Buzuki said it is odd...

Metropolitan Bloom's book on prayer talks about NOT fantazising about God, the angels and Christ... to keep our "vision" free from any 'images'.... as it can be dangerous ...if we get fixed on those 'human mind' illusions. The monastics keep their eyes closed when the pray to avoid any interference from the 'thoughts-visions' of the mind... Now icons serve the purpose for one's mind not to wonder when .... they do look around... as it turns your attention again "upwards' to prayer....

Imagining God's presence is quite different IMO from actually praying to God....In reality if you try to pray continiously... you do experience God's presence and you are actually in His presence.... By practicing prayer you do come to the realization without 'forcing' your self to 'creat images'....

That is my humble opinion....

Not to discreedit Fr. Coniaris but... I would only buy basic Orhtodox catechesis and so on from him....

God bless,
Philothei

[Monica, child of God]

I don't know. The quote that Jenn provided does not seem to encourage visualization or imagination.

pg. 18 he writes this:
"We are truly enveloped by God's presence constantly, but because it is not a physical presence but a spiritual one, we need to practice it throughout the day: to stop and remind ourselves that God is with us; to try to see Him everywhere about us; to try to capture daily the sense of His presence. If we try consciously to realize His nearness, we shall experience ever more powerfully Hi strenghtening presence in our lives.

I know that many people believe theoretically in practicing the presence of God. But the secret is to believe it enough as to practice it every day under every circumstance and difficulty. Practice it until you are absolutely convinced that God is with you, until you feel His presence. It is by practicing the Presence that the Presence becomes real. "

He could mean visualization but not necessarily. For example, when I see a person or talk to a co-worker, on my better days I remind myself that person is made in the image of God. When I see a nature programme or a bouquet of roses, I remember that God the Word formed that thing. Maybe that is the sort of thing he is talking about when he says we should "see" God in everthing around us. I am just guessing though.

Jenn, what did your priest say?

M.