Wiki Derail HQ; Non-Nicene Creed Annoucement

[TomUK]

Original Announcement : New Site Wide Rule Nicene Christianity (http://christianforums.com/t6777178-new-site-wide-rule-nicene-christianity.html)

This is a derail thread for the above mentioned Announcement.

[Zippythepinhead]

Um...........We are heading out of here. We have put up with the abuse for long enough. Thanks to all our friends everywhere who stood up for what was right and that is the inclusion of ALL Christians.

Shame on all of you who have cast out the LDS, Jehovah's Witnesses, and Non-Nicene Christians.

For the latter look under the term "Pharisee":idea:

[BelindaP]

Um...........We are heading out of here. We have put up with the abuse for long enough. Thanks to all our friends everywhere who stood up for what was right and that is the inclusion of ALL Christians.

Shame on all of you who have cast out the LDS, Jehovah's Witnesses, and Non-Nicene Christians.

For the latter look under the term "Pharisee":idea:

I hope to see you guys in other places. I don't blame you a bit. :wave:

[NewGuy101]

There's been so little good news around this place for so long it's nice to see something positive for a change...
I might just apply to be a mod again :D

[MrJim]

I might just apply to be a mod again :D

Are you suggesting it's Sunrise at CF?

Only real proof will be if RepDaddy retires and the Dr returns though I think he's too addicted to the rep smack ;)

[CaDan]

http://www2.bitstream.net/~appelget/pics/poster97837405.jpg

[Brennin]

http://www2.bitstream.net/%7Eappelget/pics/poster97837405.jpg
All your non-Nicene fora are belong to us! Make your time!

[Der Alter]

I began attending a church, of my denomination, one time. After a time I found I disagreed with some of their beliefs and practices. I left.

Don't like things here? Go to a JW, LDS, UPCI, etc. bd., as an evangelical and see how many "rights" you have and how well you like it.

[Joykins]

I began attending a church, of my denomination, one time. After a time I found I disagreed with some of their beliefs and practices. I left.

Don't like things here? Go to a JW, LDS, UPCI, etc. bd., as an evangelical and see how many "rights" you have and how well you like it.

So our best should be like someone else's worst? :scratch:

[Angel4Truth]

Idea do you think atheists should be able to come here and promote atheism?

[DougLDS]

I expected this for a long time....good-bye CF!

[CaDan]

Idea do you think atheists should be able to come here and promote atheism?

It would probably be more appropriate for you to answer her question first.

In any event, I see no signs of GA being closed down.

[ravenscape]

PLEASE NOTE: There is a Wiki/Rules Discussion Thread set up for discussing concerns about this announcement: http://christianforums.com/t6777343

This thread is primarily for asking questions and clarifying.

Thanks

Raven
Support Team

REMINDER:

This thread is for questions and clarification. The Wiki/Rules Discussion thread in the link above is for discussion.

[Idea]

Thank you !!! This is excellent news here !

You do realize of course that you say this while using LDS artwork "link (http://www.lds.org/hf/art/display/1,16842,4218-1-2-81,00.html)" ...:wave: Feel free to use it of course - it is a beautiful painting of Jesus.

[Angel4Truth]

General Apologetics is suppose to be a place to defend christianity and its beleifs its NOT suppose to be a place to promote other religions.

Are you under the impression that GA is an atheist home base to promote atheism CaDan? If not then why the comment about GA as if its those things?

[MaraPetra]

Raven, you may want to place that link in the first announcement post, so that it can be seen by all who read the announcement.

That way, the link won't get lost in what's promising to be a very, very controversial subject :)

[CaDan]

Following the Mod Hat directions, if you wish to continue this discussion, we will do so in the proper venue.

[Idea]

Idea do you think atheists should be able to come here and promote atheism?

I am not afraid of anything an athiest would say - without understanding where they come from... without an open 2 way conversaion with them, how can anyone expect to teach them about God? If they want to read a book - great, this is a place for talking with people. That means listening, then responding. Do you refuse to listen? Then they will too.

[Angel4Truth]

CaDan the question is about promotions of other religions (atheism) and follows the announcement but if you dont want to answer me thats ok too. Im thrilled that atheists wont be able any longer to go to debate areas and promote atheism.

[Idea]

It is not promotion, it is discussion. You will not make a very good missionary if you do not understand your audience...

It only becomes promotion if you are unable to answer their questions, or give them better meat to chew on :)

[Polycarp1]

Sorry, Raven. I thought "questions and clarification' meant, y'know, questions and clarification.

[CaDan]

CaDan the question is about promotions of other religions (atheism) and follows the announcement but if you dont want to answer me thats ok too. Im thrilled that atheists wont be able any longer to go to debate areas and promote atheism.

I think there are no effective apologetics without someone to talk to. Someone who is free to actually argue against positions without being handicapped by various rules against "promotion."

I do not believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ is so weak that it requires rules to protect it. I do not believe that the Gospel of Jesus Christ cannot stand up to hard scrutiny. I do not fear the promotion of atheism.

[Angel4Truth]

Idea i know the difference between promotion and asking questions/discussion. I was a debate team supervisor moderator here for a year and ive been a member of cf for 4 years and for the first 2 years here its almost the only place I posted on CF.

Promotion of atheism happens often there and more so since 7/7/7 - glad to see it will be changing.

[Angel4Truth]

CaDan as a moderator can you tell me the difference between discussion and debate vs promotion? Atheists can certainly debate christianity without promoting atheism - ive seen it happen many times in my 4 years here.

[CaDan]

Idea i know the difference between promotion and asking questions/discussion. I was a debate team supervisor moderator here for a year and ive been a member of cf for 4 years and for the first 2 years here its almost the only place I posted on CF.

I have been a professional debate judge for five times longer than that and I disagree vociferously with you that there is any meaningful distinction to be made between "discussion" and "debate." We can, perhaps, measure the intensity of the rhetoric, but any discussion of issues is by its very nature debate.

That's pretty elementary rhetorical criticism.

[Idea]

CaDan as a moderator can you tell me the difference between discussion and debate vs promotion? Atheists can certainly debate christianity without promoting atheism - ive seen it happen many times in my 4 years here.
Can LDS "debate" Trinity without promoting Jesus as the "Son" of God?

Isaiah1:18 Come now, and let us reason together
Do you want to reason together – or do you just want to preach?

Matthew7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

It appears no one is allowed to ask any questions here. No questions, no answers.

[CaDan]

I still have not gotten an answer from a person in authority.

Why is this being done? What is the purpose?

Reasons? We don't get reasons. Reasons were an Erwin thing.

[CaDan]

Enough.

My position is clear. Anyone with questions can send me a PM.

[catlover]

Wow. I feel really bad for the non-Christian mods who moderate some of the Ministry forums, like Women's Ministry and Marriage Ministry. They do an excellent job and it is a shame, a disgrace in my opinion, that they are being booted from their positions..

Apparently, some people believe discrimination is a "Christian Virtue"...kind of sickening if you ask me.

[Idea]

Why is this being done? What is the purpose?


They do not think we can handle any information other than what they give us. It is the same reason the Bible was only written in Latin for many years. The “commoner” should not be able to read and think about such things on their own – they need to believe what they are told, and nothing more. No need to put any “wild” ideas into anyone’s heads!

[catlover]

No, I don't think so. :)

If I did think so, I'd be packing my bags about now.



Sure it will...there are certain "Christians" who delight in singling out Christians who don't believe the same way they do...

[Angel4Truth]

[
I have been a professional debate judge for five times longer than that and I disagree vociferously with you that there is any meaningful distinction to be made between "discussion" and "debate." We can, perhaps, measure the intensity of the rhetoric, but any discussion of issues is by its very nature debate.

That's pretty elementary rhetorical criticism.Not sure why that all was needed to adress the difference. between discussion/debate vs promotion.

Again - are you under the impression that debate cannot occur without promotion of another religion? It can - ive seen it a thousand times.

There is a difference between a discussion of christianity and promoting atheism.


One doesnt have to promote and encourage their own religion in order to discuss christianity and it has nothing to do with "fear" either - thats an overused weak strawman. *knocks it over*

[catlover]

Thank you !!! This is excellent news here !

Yes, all the "icky" people will be segregated ...

[Angel4Truth]

catlover can you show me where the announcement said people cant post in the existing forums because of some forums being removed?

[Idea]

catlover can you show me where the announcement said people cant post in the existing forums because of some forums being removed?

Where can we post questions about the trinity doctrine?

I have had a few threads moved from existing forums into LDS areas. Where will they be moved now? Will they just be deleted?

If anyone wants to discuss Mormon beliefs, or JW beliefs... if they start discussing this on some random thread, where will you move the thread?

It would be much easier for you to keep the non-Nicene area. Otherwise our “information” will be “shared” all over this place, with nowhere to segregate it to. We will not go away, we will just be pleasantly unorganized. Every forum will be able to read our “information” rather than just those who venture into our neck of the woods. Is this what you want?

[Angel4Truth]

A non christian can ask questions about christianity in the outreach section of the board - called "Questions by non christians" Non christian for the purpose of outreach is anyone who is not nicene believing and you can read their guidelines stickied at the top of that forum.

[Angel4Truth]

We will not go away, we will just be pleasantly unorganized. Every forum will be able to read our “information” rather than just those who venture into our neck of the woods. Is this what you want? Im afraid those who willfully and intentionally violate the rules here and often will "go away" because they will end up banned. Is this what you want?

[Idea]

A non christian can ask questions about christianity in the outreach section of the board - called "Questions by non christians" Non christian for the purpose of outreach is anyone who is not nicene believing and you can read their guidelines stickied at the top of that forum.

so you are not removing us, you are just moving us to another section, just "renaming" us. All of the discussions will go on as usual, just in another area.

The Church of Jesus Christ is non-Christian... that is a puzzler... Don't worry, I will not participate in any "name calling" I will try to be a loving sister in Christ to you.

[Angel4Truth]

Idea, the idea here is to be able to convert people to biblical christianity not for those practicing other kinds of "christianity" and those who practice other religions altogether to convert us to their beliefs.

[Idea]

[/b][/size][/font]Im afraid those who willfully and intentionally violate the rules here and often will "go away" because they will end up banned. Is this what you want?

Here is an example of a thread that was moved to the LDS area.

"link" (http://christianforums.com/t6698734)

Many who posted were ignorant of what LDS believed, those who are LDS posted information - this is what we believe:

Jesus Christ

Jesus Christ is the Only Begotten Son of God the Father in the flesh. He was the Creator, He is our Savior, and He will be our Judge. Under the direction of our Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ created the earth. Through His suffering in the Garden of Gethsemane and by giving His life on the cross—that is, by performing the Atonement—Jesus Christ saves us from our sins as we follow Him. Through His Resurrection, Jesus Christ saves us from physical death. Because He overcame death, we will all be given the gift of resurrection.

the thread was then moved to LDS theology I think... then someone wanted to move it somewhere else... I honestly do not know where it would be best placed...

[Rep Daddy]

I am being impersonated by someone using a former screen name of mine.
This is harassment.

[MrJim]

I am being impersonated by someone using a former screen name of mine.
This is harassment.

sorta wondering about that...hadn't heard you'd converted from the Church of Holy Reps...:D

[Idea]

I am being impersonated by someone using a former screen name of mine.
This is harassment.

former screen name? I have only used one, and it is hard enough to keep track of this one :)

I have no hard feeling towards anyone - really, not trying to be sarcastic. I am a convert to the LDS church, I have been there done that, so am not offended when others do it... We are all just at different places in the journey :)

[progressivegal]

Idea, the idea here is to be able to convert people to biblical christianity not for those practicing other kinds of "christianity" and those who practice other religions altogether to convert us to their beliefs.

Wow. Who decided what's "biblical" and why on Earth is it anyone's mission to "Convert" anyone else? Silly me, I thought the purpose of this site was discussion and learning from one another, not one person indoctrinating another. When one religion, one group of people one country, etc. believes they are absolutely right how can they expect peace to ever occur? Lord have mercy.

[Angel4Truth]

Wow. If the purpose of CF is to "convert" anyone, I want no part of it.progressivgal i said the purpose behind the announcement - you know at the begning of this thread? Converting others to christianity though is suppose to be one of the main things a christian does - commissioned by Jesus Christ.

We are commanded to make disciples of all nations and all peoples.

Can you show me where i posted that i think that is the sole purpose of CF?

Its purpose of Cf though imo is to edify other believers - teach and discuss christianity and fellowship with others in a christian safe place as well as convert others and witness for the kingdom of heaven.

[Chajara]

Loud its the first post in this thread your posting in. It specifically says no one will be made to change icons. So no - no one is being 'removed'. The announcement is that other religions wont be being promoted here any longer.
Because as we all know, Christianity is weak and cannot be challenged without falling.

If that's not really the case (I truly don't believe it is) then why is this necessary?

[progressivegal]

progressivgal i said the purpose behind the announcement - you know at the begning of this thread? Converting others to christianity though is suppose to be one of the main things a christian does - commissioned by Jesus Christ.

We are commanded to make disciples of all nations and all peoples.

Can you show me where i posted that i think that is the sole purpose of CF?

Its purpose of Cf though imo is to edify other believers - teach and discuss christianity and fellowship with others in a christian safe place as well as convert others and witness for the kingdom of heaven.
This announcement and this thread has done nothing but turn me off to Christianity . I suspect I'm not the only one who feels this way. Any religion hat believes it's the "only way" is clearly not for me. I don't agree with Moron's on many things, but the LDS members I have met here have been nothing but accepting and kind, and never attempted to "convert" me. You never said the sole purpose was to convert, but the fact that it's a purpose at all is disturbing to me. I want discussion and dialogue and to come to my own conclusions, not to be told what to believe.
I would love for people to follow Jesus and be kind and accepting of one another. Converting or attempting to convert or "save" people alienates them. Christianity doesn't have a monopoly on truth.

[Angel4Truth]

The hate spewed at the Mormons here at CF was VERY edifying:sigh: In a sense I am finally glad you pulled the plug on our forums...it makes it easier to leave and you can have a conversation with yourself.Can you show me one single post filled with hate directed at anyone much less mormons here?

This announcement and this thread has done nothing but turn me off to Christianity . I suspect I'm not the only one who feels this way. Any religion hat believes it's the "only way" is clearly not for me. I don't agree with Moron's on many things, but the LDS members I have met here have been nothing but accepting and kind, and never attempted to "convert" me. You never said the sole purpose was to convert, but the fact that it's a purpose at all is disturbing to me. I want discussion and dialogue and to come to my own conclusions, not to be told what to believe.

Im sorry that an announcment on a message board is all it takes for you to turn your back on Christ who died for you. Jesus Said He was the only way -right in the bible Himself. One believes it or not- no one will stand before Him and say a message board is what caused them to turn their back on Him. If witnessing for Christ turns you off i would avoid all christian based boards though because Christ commands that of His actual believers.

[Protinus]

Time shall unfold what plighted cunning hides: Who cover faults, at last shame them derides.
King Lear- Shakespeare

[Angel4Truth]

Can challenge not occur without promotion? Sure it can but straw men are flying all over here. Its being challenged right now without promotion of other religions isnt it - but of course that knocks over the straw doesnt it.

[BelindaP]

No, you're not. Even Paul studied the Greek philosophers so he could meet them where they were.

[Idea]

Can you show me one single post filled with hate directed at anyone much less mormons here?



Im sorry that an announcment on a message board is all it takes for you to turn your back on Christ who died for you. Jesus Said He was the only way -right in the bible Himself. One believes it or not- no one will stand before Him and say a message board is what caused them to turn their back on Him. If witnessing for Christ turns you off i would avoid all christian based boards though because Christ commands that of His actual believers.

No one is turning their back on Christ. They are turning their back on CF - two very different things - and becoming more different all the time.

reminds me of a quote:

If your church is your god, there will be no God in your church.

All churches are nothing more than a means to an end. If the means no longer gets you to the end... what is it good for?

[BelindaP]

Can you show me one single post filled with hate directed at anyone much less mormons here?
If you want to see any such posts, I suggest you look at your own posting history.

Im sorry that an announcment on a message board is all it takes for you to turn your back on Christ who died for you. Jesus Said He was the only way -right in the bible Himself. One believes it or not- no one will stand before Him and say a message board is what caused them to turn their back on Him. If witnessing for Christ turns you off i would avoid all christian based boards though because Christ commands that of His actual believers.

There is the right way to witness and the wrong way. Some Christian sites actually get it right.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

I personally do not think it is possible for anyone to convert anyone. Only the Holy Spirit can do that. Borrowed testimony is not a testimony. I do not try to convert anyone, as it is an impossible task. I do appreciate learning from others though. Love the Baptists for their pro-life stance, and family values. Love 7th day Adventists for keeping the Sabbath day holy, love the Jewish people for their traditions… the Jewish people, they also do not follow the Nicene Crede – yet they are the ones who provided us with the Bible… Will the chosen people be welcomed here? Love the JW’s for getting out and knocking on everyone’s doors. I will stay here for the people who are here, but not for the leaders who are here. I have never given this site any money, nor do I plan to.

Such wisdom from a *gasp* non-Nicene Christian. :swoon:

[Angel4Truth]

No one is turning their back on Christ. They are turning their back on CF - two very different things - and becoming more different all the time.

reminds me of a quote:

If your church is your god, there will be no God in your church.

All churches are nothing more than a means to an end. If the means no longer gets you to the end...Um i dont think you read the post i was responding to - look at this again which is what that was in response toAny religion hat believes it's the "only way" is clearly not for me Jesus Christ said He was the only way - this excludes all other religions.

No one said Cf was a god or we worship it or anything else and yes she said religion and christianity she did not say cf.

Another strawman.

[Chajara]

Can challenge not occur without promotion? Sure it can but straw men are flying all over here. Its being challenged right now without promotion of other religions isnt it - but of course that knocks over the straw doesnt it.
The problem is, promotion is hard to define and is subject to interpretation which creates problems with moderation which leads to people feeling they're being treated unjustly which leads to hurt feelings and anger. Not exactly a good environment.

Who cares if they're promoting? It opens avenues for discussion, and discussion is a good thing. So long as it can be done without flaming then honestly, who cares? Who among us who are Christian are going to read a post promoting another religion and immediately drop Christianity? Why not just look at is as an opportunity to learn about those who share other faiths?

I think the problem is that many of us don't /want/ to learn, we think we already have all the answers.