Ghosts

[NordicLutheran]

When I was in confirmation, many a year ago, someone asked about Ghosts. Not the kind in the movie Casper, but the real deal. Our Pastor responded with this: If there is a Holy Ghost there must be an unholy ghost or ghosts. If ghosts are real are they demons? What does the Bible and the Lutheran Confessions say about Ghosts?

[RadMan]

Casper is real. He has a TV show. :scratch::swoon:

[LilLamb219]

This is from the LCMS website:
Q. What is the church's position on ghosts and whether they appear today? Are the spirits caught in between heaven and hell trying to communicate with loved ones or are they manifested by the powers of darkness?
A. The Lutheran Church--Missouri Synod understands the Scriptures to mean that there are realms in which spiritual powers and beings exist (e.g., Eph.6:12; Col. 1:16). However, our church--in the absence of specific biblical evidence--has not speculated on such questions as whether, to what extent, or in what form "spirits" or "ghosts" may manifest themselves today. Nor have we ventured opinions on questions such as you have raised. Rather, our theologians and writings (including our catechism) have pointed to the biblical warnings concerning occultic activities (e.g., Deut. 18:9-14), and at the same time to God's promises to assist Christians in their struggle against the devil, the world, and their sinful flesh (Eph. 6:10-20).

[WildStrawberry]

Every year my SS class asks me "do you believe in ghosts?" and every year I bring out this fun book...

Are There Really Ghosts? (http://www.amazon.com/Are-There-Really-Ghosts-Supernatural/dp/0570052483/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1201120610&sr=1-4)

(scroll down and check out the publisher!)

It's a great book. Doesn't really say "yes there are" or "no there aren't" but it does help you make informed decisions.

Kae

[DaRev]

The notion that dead people are "ghosts" or that they "haunt" people or places is not a Biblical understanding at all. What some would consider "ghosts" or "hauntings" are demonic spirits. I recently did a blessing on a new home where such activity was suspected. The residents have indicated a greater sense of peace there since then.

[MarkRohfrietsch]

The notion that dead people are "ghosts" or that they "haunt" people or places is not a Biblical understanding at all. What some would consider "ghosts" or "hauntings" are demonic spirits. I recently did a blessing on a new home where such activity was suspected. The residents have indicated a greater sense of peace there since then.

I agree. If the sanctified souls are in heaven, and the lost are in hell, this type of "haunting" can only be demonic in nature. If it acts like great aunt Tilly remember that the devil is the father of all lies. Late Auntie T. is in her reward, where ever that may be, not your living room.

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

I must also agree.

Poltergeists are demonic in nature. I'm not sure if I view all demons as purely evil or in the direct employ of Satan, or if some of them might just be rouge spirits. Nevertheless, their presence and influence cannot be good.

[Tofferer]

It scares me when ever I hear of a so-called "psychic" telling people that they can contact somebody's deceased relative. I wish that people were better educated about this.

[Edial]

How do we explain this?

In the last verse that spirit is identified as Samuel ...

1SA 28:7 Saul then said to his attendants, "Find me a woman who is a medium, so I may go and inquire of her."
"There is one in Endor," they said.
1SA 28:8 So Saul disguised himself, putting on other clothes, and at night he and two men went to the woman. "Consult a spirit for me," he said, "and bring up for me the one I name.".....
.....1SA 28:11 Then the woman asked, "Whom shall I bring up for you?"
"Bring up Samuel," he said.
1SA 28:12 When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out at the top of her voice and said to Saul, "Why have you deceived me? You are Saul!"
1SA 28:13 The king said to her, "Don't be afraid. What do you see?"
The woman said, "I see a spiritcoming up out of the ground."
1SA 28:14 "What does he look like?" he asked.
"An old man wearing a robe is coming up," she said.
Then Saul knew it was Samuel, and he bowed down and prostrated himself with his face to the ground.
1SA 28:15 Samuel said to Saul, "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?"

[DaRev]

It was obviously God's will that Saul hear Samuel. He certainly wasn't listening to God by anyone else.

[MagnusEmboden]

Is it possible that extremely violent or emotionally explosive events can "imprint" a locale in such a way that living persons can experience "paranormal phenomena"?

I know it's totally conjectural but this is what I tend to think a lot of this stuff is. Certainly, there are demons and they go about seeking to frighten us and do us harm and cause us to doubt the mercy and goodness of God but also I tend to think it's possible that certain places just carry the marks of things that have happened there in a way that can be sometimes seen and felt by the living.

Then also there is the passage in Acts where after Peter had been set free by the Angel from the prison, the girl answering the door thought it was Peter's ghost.

Of course, this doesn't speak to the reality of personal, post-death human haunting but it would seem to indicate that it was a prevalent belief.

[Edial]

Is it possible that extremely violent or emotionally explosive events can "imprint" a locale in such a way that living persons can experience "paranormal phenomena"?

I know it's totally conjectural but this is what I tend to think a lot of this stuff is. Certainly, there are demons and they go about seeking to frighten us and do us harm and cause us to doubt the mercy and goodness of God but also I tend to think it's possible that certain places just carry the marks of things that have happened there in a way that can be sometimes seen and felt by the living.

Then also there is the passage in Acts where after Peter had been set free by the Angel from the prison, the girl answering the door thought it was Peter's ghost.

Of course, this doesn't speak to the reality of personal, post-death human haunting but it would seem to indicate that it was a prevalent belief.
Well, factually speaking, the Bible presents that such occurences are real.

Do all the claims that people have concerning being haunted by a departed humans are valid?
Do all the psychics are "genuine"?
Obviously, not.

Asians and Africans believe strongly in such things. Are they all wrong? They are not. These ancient civilizations are not stupid, so they cannot distinguish between human hauntings and that of the devils impersonations.
They know (experience) devil's presence much more than we do.

It all depends on what God allows or not.
In a Christian civilization, it is much less common to see such things.

Saul went to the medioum of Endor despite the very command of God that such things are not to be practiced.
And after the medium's call, the spirit of Samuel appeared!
The medium's reaction was interesting - it seems she did not expect this to happen!
God let Saul have what he wanted. He died after Samuel told him his future.

It does come down to what God allows and not.

Thanks,
Ed

[MarkRohfrietsch]

It was obviously God's will that Saul hear Samuel. He certainly wasn't listening to God by anyone else.

God works how he wants, when he wants, but Scripture is clear, we are NOT to try to communicate with spirits of the dead, or any other spirits, other than the Holy one!

Mark

[CaliforniaJosiah]

This is from the LCMS website:


Q. What is the church's position on ghosts and whether they appear today? Are the spirits caught in between heaven and hell trying to communicate with loved ones or are they manifested by the powers of darkness?
A. The Lutheran Church--Missouri Synod understands the Scriptures to mean that there are realms in which spiritual powers and beings exist (e.g., Eph.6:12; Col. 1:16). However, our church--in the absence of specific biblical evidence--has not speculated on such questions as whether, to what extent, or in what form "spirits" or "ghosts" may manifest themselves today. Nor have we ventured opinions on questions such as you have raised. Rather, our theologians and writings (including our catechism) have pointed to the biblical warnings concerning occultic activities (e.g., Deut. 18:9-14), and at the same time to God's promises to assist Christians in their struggle against the devil, the world, and their sinful flesh (Eph. 6:10-20).



I've OFFICIALLY been a Lutheran for 4 months. And not day goes by when I'm not glad....


I read the opening post's question, thought, and then read what all you other's said - and saw this. It's a very BIBLICAL and humble response.


Lutherans are great!
They have good potlucks and the girls are cute, too.





.

[DaRev]

Lutherans are great!
...and the girls are cute, too.

Das is am meisten sicher wahr! I've met a few who fit that description.

[BreadAlone]

It was obviously God's will that Saul hear Samuel. He certainly wasn't listening to God by anyone else.
It was either that or a spirit tricking Saul..if it was the former, it would be equatable to the Mt. of Transfiguration where Moses was present..whom had died. If God wishes a soul in heaven to a place, obviously it can be there..