144,000 sealed

[tateziwin]

What is the Baptist understanding of the meaning of the 144,000 in Revelations?

[Roo6339]

isn't this the number of people that will be saved after the rapture?

[GreenEyedLady]

Revelation 14:1 ¶And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

This is what we believe. They are men, and they are virgins. I have heard some say its the Jews, but don't think there is a verse stating that. Unless someone else knows? Anyone?
GEL

[Cary.Melvin]

They are only people that are in heaven with Jesus (and the last one was picked in 1935), the rest of us will just have to live in paradise on Earth. I learned that from couple of nice people that came to my door the other day bearing pamplets. :D

[BBAS 64]

They are only people that are in heaven with Jesus (and the last one was picked in 1935), the rest of us will just have to live in paradise on Earth. I learned that from couple of nice people that came to my door the other day bearing pamplets. :D

Amen! ^_^

[GreenEyedLady]

They are only people that are in heaven with Jesus (and the last one was picked in 1935), the rest of us will just have to live in paradise on Earth. I learned that from couple of nice people that came to my door the other day bearing pamplets. :D
HAHA!
My friend was a Jehovah Witness and I would argue with her about EVERYTHING! Finally the Lord pulled her out of that brainwashing thinking!
It is really sad that people actually think that salvation is only limited to a church.
GEL

[Cary.Melvin]

HAHA!
My friend was a Jehovah Witness and I would argue with her about EVERYTHING! Finally the Lord pulled her out of that brainwashing thinking!
It is really sad that people actually think that salvation is only limited to a church.
GEL
Did she ever tell you why she believed that the Jehovah's Witness "church" was the true church?

[bleechers]

This is what we believe. They are men, and they are virgins. I have heard some say its the Jews, but don't think there is a verse stating that. Unless someone else knows? Anyone?

For your consideration:

4Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.
5From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed,
from the tribe of Reuben 12,000,
from the tribe of Gad 12,000,
6from the tribe of Asher 12,000,
from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000,
from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000,
7from the tribe of Simeon 12,000,
from the tribe of Levi 12,000,
from the tribe of Issachar 12,000,
8from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000,
from the tribe of Joseph 12,000,
from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000.

:)

[GreenEyedLady]

She tells me now "because I was brainwashed into that thinking" They use their own bible, their own materials all written by the Watchtower Society. They do not look at any other source as a valid other than the Watchtower stuff.
She is now an avid EX-JW seeking to help others out of the cult.

Did she ever tell you why she believed that the Jehovah's Witness "church" was the true church?
Bleechers-
Thanks for that verse. I knew it was somewhere. There is a big Messianic movement going on, I keep a close eye on it to see what is happening. Its quite awesome seeing the Jews accepting Christ.

GEL

[ufonium2]

They are only people that are in heaven with Jesus (and the last one was picked in 1935), the rest of us will just have to live in paradise on Earth. I learned that from couple of nice people that came to my door the other day bearing pamplets. :D
I can't believe I'm telling this story twice in one day! Anyway:

A few years ago some JWs came to my house and asked my dad to give them land on our farm to build a church. Dad looked them straight in the eye and told them he'd trade the land for one of the 144,000 spots. :D

[tateziwin]

Yes, thanks guys but anyone able to enlighten me as to what the meaning of it is? My friend says he can't believe cos only 144,000 get saved so what's the point.

[Cary.Melvin]

Yes, thanks guys but anyone able to enlighten me as to what the meaning of it is? My friend says he can't believe cos only 144,000 get saved so what's the point.It sounds like your friend is a Jehovah's Witness. It is a religion that was founded by an American man named Charles Taze Russell in the 19th Century. They deny the trinity and claim that Jesus was Micheal the Arch-Angel incarnate.

I don't know about Baptists, but Catholics don't see them as Christians because of their views of Jesus.

[bleechers]

I don't know about Baptists, but Catholics don't see them as Christians because of their views of Jesus.

They are outside the pale of accepted Christianity.

For many Baptists, the scores of Catholic doctrines which reject the knowledge of salvation by faith in Christ's finished work, place them outside the pale as well.

For the record, it's "Russell". :)

[Cary.Melvin]

They are outside the pale of accepted Christianity.
The Big reason they are not Christians is that they deny the divinity of Jesus Christ.


For many Baptists, the scores of Catholic doctrines which reject the knowledge of salvation by faith in Christ's finished work, place them outside the pale as well.
Whatever you may think about Catholics, They do believe that Jesus is God.


For the record, it's "Russell". :)

Thank you for the correction.:wave:

[Terri]

They are only people that are in heaven with Jesus (and the last one was picked in 1935), the rest of us will just have to live in paradise on Earth. I learned that from couple of nice people that came to my door the other day bearing pamplets.
This is a very ugly statement to give to someone seeking truth and certainly does not represent the Baptist belief.

We certainly do not believe that only 144,000 people are saved nor that only 144,000 people will be in heaven.

[Blazin4Christ]

isn't this the number of people that will be saved after the rapture?

no thats the amount of Jewish saints that will spread the gospel like fire in the end times

[bleechers]

Whatever you may think about Catholics, They do believe that Jesus is God.

Oh, I love Catholics (used to be one, you know)... it's "Catholicism" that denies the fundamentals. ;)

And the WORK of Christ is as central to Baptist doctrine as the PERSON of Christ.

[GreenEyedLady]

Yes, thanks guys but anyone able to enlighten me as to what the meaning of it is? My friend says he can't believe cos only 144,000 get saved so what's the point.
They are from the 12 tribes, they are Jews, not Gentiles. Show him where it says that 144,000 are men and Jews at that! I went over and over with my friend about this verse. She used to tell me that the word men and virgins is "symbolic" to mean "pure people" When I told her that the verse would then contradic itself. The bible never uses a verse to mean both literal and symbolic. Its either literal or symbolic, so I told her ..........either 144,000 is literal, like she believed, or its also symbolic. If its literal, then the entire verse has to be taken literally, if its symbolic then the number must be taken that ways also.
I hope I am making some kind of sense to you.
GEL

[Tenorvoice]

To my understanding the 144,00 are the choses Jews that God will seal after the rapture of the Church to be His evagalist (sp) and like someone esle said they will be spreading The Word of God like a wild fire (I like that way of looking @ it). Also they will not be the only ones saved at this time. There will be others saved but they will be childeren that have not been able to make the decision to follow Christ for themselves after the Rapture, and they will be the people of the world that have not heard the Gospel mesage for themselves.


For The Bible clrealy states that the ones that have heard the Word of God and do not make the decision to folow Christ then that is the same thing as rejecting Him. No decision @ all is a decision to not follow. So there will be adults saved after the Rapture but they will be the ones that have not heard the Word Of God for themselves.
(yes I am pre-trib beliver)

Peace

And do not forget that Revelation and Daniel need to be studied @ the same time. THey go hand and hand and will explain one another.

[bleechers]

And do not forget that Revelation and Daniel need to be studied @ the same time. THey go hand and hand and will explain one another

I highly recommend A.C. Gaebelein's commentaries on Daniel and Revalation. His commentary on Matthew is priceless :)

[GreenEyedLady]

Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
13 ¶And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

These verses should get your friends attention also. The verses prove that people will be in heaven that NO MAN can number,(way more than 144,000)
After I showed my EX-JW friend this verse, the debate stopped.
GEL
:kiss:

[Frankie]

They are from the 12 tribes, they are Jews, not Gentiles. Show him where it says that 144,000 are men and Jews at that! I went over and over with my friend about this verse. She used to tell me that the word men and virgins is "symbolic" to mean "pure people" When I told her that the verse would then contradic itself. The bible never uses a verse to mean both literal and symbolic. Its either literal or symbolic, so I told her ..........either 144,000 is literal, like she believed, or its also symbolic. If its literal, then the entire verse has to be taken literally, if its symbolic then the number must be taken that ways also.
I hope I am making some kind of sense to you.
GELThis is my understanding of the 144,000 also. I have reading and occasionally putting in my 2 cents on the JW threads in the UO section of CF and I am not going to lie to you all, I am apauled at the way they masacre the Word of God and at the little respect and awe they have for Jesus. The more I have been learning about the JW beliefs over there, the more I feel the hair raising on the back of my neck. http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_6_103.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001)

[Frankie]

This is my understanding of the 144,000 also. I have reading and occasionally putting in my 2 cents on the JW threads in the UO section of CF and I am not going to lie to you all, I am apauled at the way they masacre the Word of God and at the little respect and awe they have for Jesus. The more I have been learning about the JW beliefs over there, the more I feel the hair raising on the back of my neck. http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_6_103.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001)I am also appauled at my spelling in the above posts but too lazy to fix it. LOL