hmmmm, about fundies....

[LynneClomina]

from a dictionary here:http://faith.propadeutic.com/authors/fundamental.html#glossary

second-degree separation - ceasing fellowship and cooperation in ministry, not only with people in doctrinal error, but with those who do not themselves practice separation from such error. This is the mark that most distinguishes fundamentalists from other evangelicals.

what do you guys think about this? :scratch:

[Ceris]

Not a very flattering comment..........

[LynneClomina]

well i dont do what they said. i was wondering if any fundies really do do that? :scratch:

[Ceris]

There's always some in any group.

[J.A.I]

That's a biased definition.. It sounds like it's coming from someone 'anti-fundie'. I am the total opposite of that definition :)

I am always eager to serve and be active in ministry no matter the situation.

[ChrisB]

I think I can see where the writer is coming from here although I think he mis-states the position a little bit. I can only speak from an Evangelical standpoint and wouldn't claim to speak for all Evangelicals (of course....) but I think that there is a significant difference between fellowship and cooperation in ministry.

I have no problem fellowshiping with Christians of virtually any denomination, indeed our church explicitly states that anyone who loves the Lord Jesus and has accepted him as their personal saviour is welcome to take communion with us. This is in sharp contrast to some denominational churches!

Cooperation in ministry is a different issue. In 1966 the Welsh Evangelical leader Dr Martyn Lloyd-Jones called for Anglican Evangelicals (and Evangelicals in other denominations) to leave their churches on the basis that creeping liberalism in those churches would inevitably lead to unacceptable compromises. He was opposed by John Stott, the leading Anglican Evangelical in an issue which was a cause celebre at the time. I think, over 35 years later, Lloyd-Jones has been proved right. Liberalism has spread through many Christian denominations and has caused division and distraction from what should be the churches focus - worshiping God and spreading the gospel. This does not mean that we distance ourselves from evangelicals in other denominations. We certainly don't and have worked with Anglican Evangelicals particularly but we must be careful that we do not seek unity at the cost of compromising our faith.

[BarbB]

Amen, Chris B. Sounds like Lloyd-Jones was ahead of his time.

[HumbleMan]

what do you guys think about this? :scratch:
I think anyone who practices this is missing opportunities to witness and win souls to Christ. The bible tells us to be seperate, but that means not to do as the world does. We are still the salt and light of the earth, and still called to evangelize.

I would also go out on a limb and say (my opinion only) that those who practice this are either wallowing in Phariseeical(sp?) pride, or do not trust Christ enough to give them strength to conquer the ways of the world.

OK you Primitive and IF Baptists, hit me with your best shot! :D :hug:

[The Lord is my banner]

There is a harshness about some of the people mentioned on that site, which I feel sits uncomfortably in a gospel-bearer. If that's being a fundamentalist, I hope I am not one.

(BTW HumbleMan, that word is spelt "pharisaical" - I just had to look it up, because I am a pharisee when it comes to spelling mistakes!) :D

God bless, Susana

[LynneClomina]

do you mean that the people he lists as "fundamentalists" are harsh? and that reflects badly on us as a whole?

:scratch:

[tulc]

How could anyone not love a site with a complete guide to GI Joe's!?!
tulc(who's so old he remembers the original fuzzy Joe!) :eek:

[TwinCrier]

second-degree separation - ceasing fellowship and cooperation in ministry, not only with people in doctrinal error, but with those who do not themselves practice separation from such error. This is the mark that most distinguishes fundamentalists from other evangelicals. I find nothing harsh about that statement. It would be more wrong to support or enter into alliance with another organization that accepts the things of the world. It would be like an enviromental organization refusing to do business with a recycling plant that polutes a river.

Titus 3:10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

[LynneClomina]

i completely understand that, and believe that, TwinCrier. are they talking about that? what it reminds me of is when people will "shun" other christians over things such as "when are you born again?".... or even baptism.... and then when someone else is hanging out with a person who agrees with the other "camp" - maybe they are trying to reach them! - and they are told they arent christians because they are friends with so and so.

:scratch:

[VigilanteHamster]

There's definitely a delicate balance in hanging out with someone with the intent of evangelizing or correcting them... after all, it's easier for people on the ground to pull you off a chair you stand on than it is for you to pull them up onto the chair! (I forgot who did this, but it really drove the point home...) People cite the example of Jesus hanging out with sinners, but He was perfect and therefore would not end up falling to the temptations that they did! [/pointless ramble]

I'm not sure what to think on this subject, though...

[The Lord is my banner]

do you mean that the people he lists as "fundamentalists" are harsh? and that reflects badly on us as a whole?

:scratch:

Yes, I think so - eg.

Jack Chick's cartoons are really scary and threatening - kind of "believe God or else."

Ken Ham can be a little derogatory in his speaking manner at times.

One of those guys was up for fraud.

Another says even adults are under parental and even grand-parental authority all their lives, and that all Christian men should be circumcised!


I suppose these are the kind of people that the average person calls to mind at the mention of "fundamentalist Christian." That does a lot of harm, and I definitely wouldn't want to be under the same umbrella in people's minds.

Whether they or any of us are the "real" fundamantalists, who knows?
No matter what a dictionary says, I think probably the common usage and understanding of a word matters more in cases like this.

God bless, Susana

[LynneClomina]

i wonder, on this guys list, where we would fall? prolly depends on our denom (or non) i guess.

[KennySe]

Another says even adults are under parental and even grand-parental authority all their lives, and that all Christian men should be circumcised!


How does he (whichever one said it) explain away St. Paul saying we are NOT to be circumcised?

[FreeinChrist]

from a dictionary here:http://faith.propadeutic.com/authors/fundamental.html#glossary

second-degree separation - ceasing fellowship and cooperation in ministry, not only with people in doctrinal error, but with those who do not themselves practice separation from such error. This is the mark that most distinguishes fundamentalists from other evangelicals.

what do you guys think about this? :scratch:I believe this is about ceasing to participate with another ministry group if you find out they teach what you feel is unscriptural and unChristian.


And example would be this: Church A participates in a joint ministry with Church B. Church A then finds out Church B accepts homosexuality, marrying gay couples, which is against the beliefs of Church A. Church A then ceases to participate in the joint effort because they do not want to compromise their beliefs and have a desire to stand for what they beleive is the truth. Church A is then exercizing the second-degree separation.


It is not about refusing to witness to sinners, or socializing with sinners. Thus a church can reach out to sinners, unbelievers, and yet refuse to be associated with an unscriptural church so that their witness is compromized.

[jpapadpapa]

Excellent explanation, FreeInChrist. This is exactly what Fundamentalists believe and practice. I know because I grew up as a Fundamentalist (and for the most part, am still one). I think the danger is that you can start to become like the Pharasees, thinking you are holier. I think there is a fine line there and each individual and organization has to be careful and decide where the line is for them and then constantly examine his/her heart for pride.

[FreeinChrist]

That is true. It is important the point of contention is worth exercising the separation, and not something petty.

[LynneClomina]

That is true. It is important the point of contention is worth exercising the separation, and not something petty.
that is my worry, also. that there is not a ridiculous level of "do not associate" with people of your own church who happen to hang out with someone who hangs out with someone who is..... whatever.

i know of christians who are taught that people who go to my church are demonically inspired and not christians becusae we believe in the giftings of the holy spirit, praying in tongues, and dance in church alot. :sigh: for obvious reasons we do not have close fellowship or cooperative events with them, but we do not avoid them and call them a cult (if we are a cult we are the most biblically orthodox pentecostal/charismatic church i know of!) like they do us. definite exclusivity there, for sure....

[alaurie]

second-degree separation - ceasing fellowship and cooperation in ministry, not only with people in doctrinal error, but with those who do not themselves practice separation from such error. This is the mark that most distinguishes fundamentalists from other evangelicals.

what do you guys think about this? :scratch:


I think this definition is correct ...at least it accurately describes my years as a "fundy" and that of many fundamentalist people I know face to face- as well as some CF posters.

Allye - a recovering pharisee

[LynneClomina]

i hope to be a fundy thats not a pharisee.... is that possible??? :scratch:

[HumbleMan]

i hope to be a fundy thats not a pharisee.... is that possible??? :scratch:
Entirely possible. We just have to remember that Christ told us, and showed us by example, that we need to remain in the Truth, and to do it in the spirit of love, humility, and service.