Have you always been a Lutheran or did you convert?

[LuxPerpetua]

If you converted, would you mind sharing your story?

I'm interested in how everyone came to Lutheranism, since I myself am a recent convert.

:hug:

[Jenna]

I was 'raised' in a Lutheran Church. Since reaching adulthood, I have visited churches from many denominations and done enough reading and researching to make my eyeballs pop out. Thusfar I haven't come across any group that I believe to preach the Word in any clearer light than the Lutheran Church. So, I was brought in at a young age, and came back when I came back to Christ. lol The only converting I've done was to convert from death to Life. ;)

[LuxPerpetua]

Let's see . . . my story:

Well, I was raised in a Southern Baptist church in Mississippi and my entire family is Baptist for I don't know HOW many generations. (My former church, in case you are interested is www.fbcj.org). I really did love my church growing up, but I always felt like there was something "missing." I studied medieval history in college and was very attracted to the Catholic liturgy and the unity in belief among Catholics. (Baptists are, by definition, non-liturgical, non-sacramental, and independent of each other and only organized in a loose confederation.) When I got married, my husband, a former Mormon turned Baptist, and I had trouble finding a Baptist church that was "high-church" Baptist (small-town Baptist churches tend to be very informal), so we ended up at an Episcopal church. We loved the liturgical and sacramental emphasis of the Episcopal church but we felt it's policies were WAY too liberal for us and our understanding of Scripture. We feel, and I think rightly so, that Scripture should be Christians' highest source of authority and God's revealed truths but also that church traditions are important and valid so long as they do not contradict holy Scripture. Well, a year after we started attending the Episcopal church we moved from the deep south into New England for grad school (I in medieval history and hubby in polymer science--we're a very odd mix if you haven't noticed). When we got to our corner of CT there weren't any Southern Baptist churches and there was only 1 Episcopal church nearby, but by this time we knew the Episcopal church was out of the question as per my discussion on it's liberal leanings. Well, there isn't much religious choice where we live since almost all of the churches are either RC or Congregational. Having never heard of Congregational churches, we started attending a rather large Congregational church and really liked the people there so we joined and got very involved. A few months ago we found out that our current church is extremely liberal--much moreso than the Episcopal church. Most Congregationalists are apparently United Church of Christ members, and UCC is one of the most liberal denominations in Protestantism. We had never heard of UCC before (I don't think there are any UCC churches down south) and so we only realized this too late, after we had become very involved with the congregation. Now, don't get me wrong, I love the people at my church and we have 2 very caring ministers, but I just can't agree with the theology of UCC, which is basically "believe whatever you like." One of our ministers even joked that UCC stands for "Unitarians Considering Christ," and that is in many ways what we've observed. After we realized what we had done, we truly had a crisis of church (not of faith, but of church) and some of you on CF may remember this).

Now onto the Lutheran church part:
Having been raised in the south, which is essentially Baptist and Methodist with a few Presbyterians sprinkled in, I had never before considered Lutheranism until I found CF and was impressed with how Scripturally-based the Lutheran church is (having been raised Baptist, this is VERY important to me) and I also liked the liturgical and sacramental views held by Lutherans (the things that were missing in my Baptist upbringing). Now that I've devoured the LCMS website and have asked you guys a ton of questions, I do truly believe that the Lutheran church is the best balance of Law and Gospel, Scripture and Tradition. Timothy (hubby) and I will be moving to Cleveland at the beginning of August and so when we get settled we are planning on attending an LCMS church and make our confessions as Lutherans. I'm so glad I found you folks! Truly, I think the Spirit has been VERY present in this process. :)

Well, that's my story and I'm sticking to it :P

[Phoebe]

I was raised Lutheran, but I, too, visited other churches when I moved to a different town. My FIL was looking for a church to attend, so I went with him. He settled on First Baptist. I stayed Lutheran. :) I had considered changing to Baptist, but I was told I would need to be re- baptized. No thank-you! Now that I've done more study on church doctrine, I'm very glad I didn't switch.

[Flipper]

I was raised Catholic, but my parents were pretty lax on whether we go to church or not. I did the PSR thing to get my sacraments because I was in public school. I also played CYC ball and my first job was working for CYC as an umpire. I got confirmed at 13 and stopped going to services at my parish. I attended different denominations - depending on which friend or boyfriend invited me. I almost became Free Will Baptist my senior year of high school, btw (also glad I didn't).

When I was 23, my 13 year old sister asked me to be her confirmation sponsor. I started going back to my old parish. I didn't like what I saw or experienced. I was very uncomfortable there. So, I went to my friend's parish in the same town - much better. I had considered switching parishes, but was given a cold reception by my archdiocese when I looked into that. Said friend's brother invited her, and she soon invited me, to a home bible study for 20-somethings, originally meant to be a singles group. It was sponsored by a Lutheran church, but was full of people from different Lutheran and Catholic churches. I loved it. I saw the Bible and my faith in a whole new light. I learned what Grace and Agape really meant (that was life altering experience). I was invited to the sponsoring church and fell in love with it and soon became a member. I thought it was cool that I didn't need to get re-baptised or re-confirmed. My friend joined as well. We've been both going ever since.

The home bible study group disbanded a few years later because everyone married each other and started having children. Someone in the group set me up with her co-worker and I married him and he joined my church.

The only negative is that my mom wasn't very happy with the move. She never went to church and would always complain about it, but thought I became this religious fanatic when I joined another church and started going and getting involved. The rest of my family didn't find out that I wasn't Catholic anymore until they got my wedding invitation, when I had switched churches 3 years before. They all thought I had joined my husband's church, when it was actually the other way around.

[ZeroTX]

Neither here :) Considering conversion... I grew up as the son of a Baptist pastor who was later ordained by the Congregational Methodist church (small Weslayan-based church in the south). Very conservative, bible-based values.... Add liturgy & sacramental communion to that, and it's pretty much the LCMS church I visited... I like what I see so far!

-Michael

[ByzantineDixie]

My story is a bit long...but you asked! So bear with me...

I was brought up in the Catholic church. Baptism, First Communion, Confirmation...all on schedule. Attended Catholic grade school through the 7th grade until we moved from St. Louis to Wichita, KS. I BEGGED my parents to let me go to public school and they caved.

I remained an active Catholic (although my parents were not) until midway through college (a state university in Kansas). Even played guitar for the folk masses in college my first year. Over the Christmas break I took a class in the Renaissance. In that class I learned about the popes of that time and some of the evil things that were done by them. I learned that some of the rich families, like the Medici's bought their son's popeships!!! I learned at one time there were two popes and then a third was selected and the third ousted the other two. Which pope was the infallible one? :confused:

First of all I was broken hearted. My church had never taught me about its difficult past so I was caught off guard. I was so ashamed by my church. So...I tossed it all off. I left God (fortunately He never left me!). I came home that Easter and told my mother there was no God.

Fast forward several years. I married, we had two boys and it was time to send our oldest son to school. We lived in one of the worst school districts in the nation and had to find an alternative to public education. Since I was a product of parochial school (and did very well academically) I had no problem going that route. We first looked at the Episcopal school. The tuition was 4 times that of the other schools. We certainly did not have that kind of money. The Catholic schools were jam packed because everyone wanting to escape the poor school district sent their children there. Class sizes were 30+ per room and one class met in the gym because the school was out of space! I couldn't have my son herded in like cattle. Then we looked at the Lutheran school. Tuition was extremely reasonable, academic performance was excellent and there were about 14 kids per class. All we had to do was pay our fees and sign a little piece of paper that we promised to raise our son in a Christian home. Well, we were Christians, right? I mean we weren't Jewish!

Fast forward 9 weeks. I am sitting in my first parent teacher conference and the teacher (God bless Mrs. Zobal) says, "I see you haven't been to church in 9 weeks. You know, when you enrolled your son you promised to raise him in a Christian home." Little did I know that every Monday morning the teacher asked the kids if they went to church and sunday school the prior Sunday!!! So I said to Mrs. Zobal, "We'll take care of that."

We started attending the church affiliated with the Lutheran school. I was very, very comfortable with everything. Seemed just like the Catholic church without statues of Mary. So we decided to join. I will never forget the first night of my newcomers class. A woman met me at the door and said "Hello, my name is Jane and I am going to heaven." I thought..."How does she know??!!! I have to learn more." Then I learned the ultimate truth...salvation by grace through faith and now I can say...

"Hello, my name is Rose and I am going to heaven!!!" :clap:

I am so grateful to God for bringing me to the Lutheran church. It has been a difficult and wonderful journey...and each day brings new experiences and opportunities for growth.

Peace

Rose

[LuxPerpetua]

Everyone has such fantastic stories! I love 'em all. :)

[Music4Hym777]

Okay, I was born and baptized into a Lutheran church, then at the age of 1, left that church and moved to a Vineyard church for 4 years, after that I was Methodist for 5 years, then Missionary for 5 years, finally we returned to the Lutheran church when we found one that was right for us. While we were at the other churches we would still go to Lutheran churches for special occasions. We were living in Georgia while we were Methodist and the Lutheran church built in the 1600's was the one we went to for special occasions. That church was awesome, but there were some bad things about it like they had kneelers (when you use to be in a wheelchair that is a very bad thing).

So yeah thats my story. I have been Lutheran ever since, missed confirmation, but am very happy being Lutheran although I am thinking of becoming an LCMSer especially if ELCA allows gay pastors.

[Rechtgläubig]

My story is a bit long...but you asked! So bear with me... That's not a long story mate, this is a long story (OK, bad Croc Dundee impersonation lol)

I am a very recent convert "officially".

I admit, I am envious of the cradle Lutherans, I was raised mormon. Had I been raised Lutheran I would probably be a pastor right now. I was about three years old when the missionaries first came to the house. I don't remember much except my parents explaining to me something about how we were going to start going to this new church. I have one other early memory of being left with my sister with two male men we had never seen before. We were both very upset and cried most of the time my parents were gone. I think they were being baptized. I don't remember the event very clearly, but I do remember after we stopped crying, the men at one point asked us questions about our parents. They also must have been snooping around the house because they found my parent's records, everything from Elvis, Pink Floyd, Led Zepplin, Bad Company, to Alice Cooper. I remember when my parents got home they were upset and later they had to break and throw out their records.

Well, I hated the church. It wasn't easy, in fact, it killed me inside because I was raised that this was the "truth", this was the true church of God and yet I hated it. I always thought it was weird, I felt uncomfortable around the people there, I hated all of the rules, hated the three hour services, everything. Add all of that up and you can understand my dilemma. I grew up resenting God and at times yelling and cursing at Him because I hated His church . It is hard for me to admit that and I know I am forgiven, but it still hurts inside when I think about it. Why not just drop God altogether? My personal experience has made it so easy for me to later accept the doctrine of Infant Baptism.

My Roman Catholic grandmother insisted that every grandchild be Baptized. My dad grew up Catholic so he had no problems with that, even though he didn't like the Roman Catholic church (that made him easy prey for the mormons). I generally don't like to speculate about things, but I don't know how else to explain it. If you teach and raise a child that something is normal, wouldn't that be "normal" to them? I am not talking about the rebellious teen years, I am saying from day one, I knew that church was different, weird, and I didn't belong there.

When I was in the second grade, we moved to another city and I changed schools. That move would be the key to my conversion. My first day at my new school, I met a kid, let's call him "Joe", OK well... that's his real name, anyway, we hit it off and became good friends. I think having the same first name had something to do with it, but I can't remember exactly. I remember one day on the playground, and I don't remember who had asked, but we told each other which church we went to. He said he was "Lutheran". I never heard of it before and I didn't think much of it, although he did mention that it was a type of Christian.

Although I grew up after the supposed shift in mormon PR, I was still raised and taught that mormons were not Christians. You can see in the Unorthodox section on CF that they don't believe that now, but I was. They taught me how the symbol of the cross was bad and that Christians were all apostate "Jesus freaks" who thought they had a license to sin. Our "full gospel" was superior because it contained various laws that Christians lacked, and so on.

Things began to change as we grew up and thankfully my mom tired of the mormon church. My sister and I always put up a fight Sunday mornings and that wore on my dad too. A big part of it was my moms back problems though. She complained that the pews at the church hurt her back. I don't know how true that was (she does have bad back issues), but the important thing was that it was a big ol' monkey wrench that got thrown in the works. My sister complained the loudest so she got to stay home with my mom more then I did. There did eventually come a time when we just stopped going altogether though.

Remember Joe? It must have been after he was in confirmation classes or around that time when he began hitting me with questions. Now having read all that I wrote so far, you'd think that I welcomed what he had to say with open arms right? My heart and mind were in conflict. I hated the mormon church, yet having been programmed with lds responses to "Christian persecution" I began spouting off the trained responses. Just because I didn't really think the mormons were right, doesn't mean that it makes Christianity correct. Our conversations continued for years. He didn't push me too much at a time, we remained tight friends. There are some other things that I am going to skip over because they are a whole story in themselves, and no one would believe me if I told you anyway, so fast forward some years to mid-late high school.

I needed God and I needed Him bad. I eventually did what Joe had been asking me to do for years, I set aside my beliefs, set aside the book of mormon and other teachings of the lds and read the bible alone, letting it interpret itself. Having been curious about the book, but never having the chance to read it, I read clear through Revelation one night. I though, hey that's pretty cool. I didn't really understand what I read, but it peaked my interest. I told Joe and he insisted I read the Gospels. I read them. I was then presented with a NIV bible Joe's mom bought for me. Now, that is a big no-no, as mormons are KJV only. Yet, the bible was so easy to understand, so I read it. I started at Genesis and read and read. Not all at once, but I read a few chapters a night. I got clear through Isaiah when I decided to skip to the Gospels. The Holy Spirit had begun His work, and that made things easier for Joe.

I decided to finally take his offer to attend church with him. It was a Wednesday night Lent service, which was weird for me because worship is for Sundays (in my lds head). I absolutely fell in love with the service! The liturgical service was new to me, but I saw it as very orderly, reverent, and respectful towards God. Confession and Absolution blew me away! It felt so good to admit to God and everyone within earshot that I am not worthy to be in God's presence, that I deserved to be sent to hell for all eternity because I am sinful. Then to hear the pastor declare me forgiven, I was almost brought to tears. I was finally free. I was free from all of the built up guilt, I was free of the pain, I was free of the confusion, I was free of my sins.

I continued to go with my friend, the hero who helped rescue me, and I continued to attend when he left for the WELS college as he was going to become a pastor. I finally decided to become a member and had planned on attending the bible information classes, but my wife and I moved to TX before that could happen. After a while in Texas we decided to find a church, but the problem was that I was Lutheran and my wife was, well, confused . What I mean is, she was raised Southern Baptist, had attended a oneness Pentecostal school for a while, and a rather *cough*flakey*cough* college. This blend of Baptist, Pentecostal, charismatic upbringing clashed with traditional Lutheran worship. She hated the liturgy and didn't think too highly of the "strictness" in worship. I thought I could compromise and I tried it.

We first attended a couple Southern Baptist churches. I think three different ones. There was one smaller one I liked (they talked a lot about Luther lol), but we didn't go there long because we bought a house and moved. We found out that one of my wife's relatives moved to the area and was going to a nondenominational church. We went with him one Sunday and although it freaked me out bad, my wife liked it. I didn't like the coffee shop outside the sanctuary, the contemporary music, the Schwärmerei, the sermons left me feeling empty and usually left me questioning my Salvation. "Christ crucified" was substituted for "Christ the teacher and role model". I decided to search for, what I claimed as my "roots". In my search I came across the WELS Q+A site and I soaked it all up. In there I found a link to the seminary and convention essays and I soaked them up. Having finally understood what it was that separates Lutherans from the other Christians, I decided it was time to reform.

As funny as it sounds, I located a WELS church and attended it for the first time on Reformation Sunday. I will never forget my pastor rushing up to me asking all sorts of questions. Well my wife found out that I went to another church that morning (we attended the non-denom in the evenings) and boy was she upset. She was convinced the devil was working to tear our marriage apart. That night of all nights, the non-denom church decides to commune . Knowing what I knew, I refused it. It broke my heart because my wife began to cry, but I was doing the right thing and even though it was hard, I felt at peace doing it. On the way home I was again assaulted with allegations that the devil was working to divide our marriage up. I asked her if it ever occurred to her that maybe God was working to merge our faiths together?

The next week at church my pastor pushed to get me into the Bible Information Class. I was hesitant, but reluctantly said OK. The first class was that Thursday. Thursday rolls around and my wife decides that she wants to go. I know her well enough to know that she wanted to pick a fight. She figured she'd make the pastor look like a fool and everyone would know who was right. The weeks rolled by and she continued to go to each class, she debated with the pastor and more importantly, she learned what exactly the church teaches. I remember when the pastor, at one point in a class on bible translations, read some of the bible in original Greek and Hebrew. It blew her away (she never had a pastor that could do that before!). She began to soften up after that and by the end of the classes she enjoyed them. "There was no point in going to two churches", she finally told me one day. We soon had our children Baptized and we became finally official Lutherans.

:clap:

[AngelusSax]

I was born and raised a Lutheran. I've visited a few Baptist services, and while I do like the atmosphere of their worship services (it seems to be a bit more free and go-with-the-flow), I don't like it that much. I like knowing what is going on, and I also like Lutheran doctrine (that is, believe it) more than Baptist doctrine (with regards to infant baptism and, being ELCA, women pastors).

[ChiRho]

Testimonies!? :eek:

Where am I? A Modern Evangelical Forum? :D


Seriously, not to bad! Never a bore to hear about how Christ saved a fellow Christian....just please do not go on about how Jesus gave you the winning lotto numbers and made your SUV payment because you prayed for days and refrained from sin! :P

Pax Christi,

ChiRho

[ByzantineDixie]

Lutherans aren't particularly known for giving their testimonies and that's a shame because there are such great ones out there. It is so encouraging to get a glimpse into how God is working in the lives of others.

I am anxious to hear more stories!!!

Love y'all-----R

[LuxPerpetua]

I like to hear stories because then it makes me feel not so alone in converting. It's also a great way to see how everyone decided that Lutheranism is for them. And if "certain" Lutherans don't like to tell their stories, shame on them. :P I find this sort of thing very effective, especially if there are other Christians church-shopping at the moment--who knows, you may influence them to consider attending a Lutheran church.

And I grew up in an Evangelical church, and we never talked about winning Lotto numbers (Baptists are very anti-gambling anyway) or SUV payments. We did talk about the wonderful ways that God has worked in our lives, though. :)

[GlowingFirefly]

Well, I have been raised as a Lutheran by my mom. I only attended my Lutheran church until I was 3, then stopped. I didn't come back to the church until 2 years ago. During the time that I had come back I had been confirmed in the Lutheran faith, and had gotten to know so many nice people in my youth group.

I wasn't really raised a Christian at all, even though I was baptized as a baby. Though I so wish I had been..

Even though I have been a Lutheran my whole life, I've visited a few other churches, including a non-denominational one, Prespyterian (however you spell it ;) ) Methodist, and a Jewish synogoge. All have been exstremly interesting, however, I'd go with my Lutheran faith anytime.

Why? I'm not really sure except that I've adapted to it and it's a pretty laid back, very friendly denomination. And I like it like that. :)

[Moros]

I thought about becoming one because there was a huge Lutheran church by my house at one time and I had been learning about Luther.

[SPALATIN]

Well by the looks of it many of you have had some interesting stories of how you came to the Lutheran church and your experiences are much the same as mine.

I was born in 1961 and was baptized in an ALC Lutheran church which I attended for the first 5 years of my life. In my fifth year, my parents were tired of commuting such a long way every Sunday (about 15 miles) and decided to search for a church closer to the house they built the year before. I remember them going to a few other Lutheran churches before they settled on one and it was a Missouri-Synod (LCMS) church that they ended up joining.

I went through my whole teen years confirmation, high school youth and was in my early 20s when we moved to Colorado. We joined an LCMS church there and I was involved in the Singles group. I also was invited to attend a couple of charismatic churches for which I didn't particularly care for after attending. My career in Radio Broadcasting was just starting and I moved to a town in western Colorado where I attended a LCMS church there. I worked there for about 6-months. My next Radio job was in Southwest Wyoming (Kemmerer) where I spent the summer of 1985 and again attended the LCMS church in town.

I moved back to Minnesota at the end of summer that year and found that the church my parents and I belonged to really wasn't the same. My parents transferred their membership from Colorado back to Minnesota but I didn't and in fact being in my mid-twenties and single wanted to be with people I shared common things with. I started attending a Covenant church about 3 miles from my parents house (where I lived for another 9 years). They had a singles group that I instantly meshed with. I decided to join the church that the Single adult group met so that I could go to church with them. What I didn't realize was how different this church was. They had "contemporary" christian music in their service. I was young and hip and thought that was cool but didn't realize how different this all was.

During the next several years I would go from the Covenant church to the Baptist (general convention) to Independent Baptist to ELCA Lutheran and now finally back to LCMS Lutheran.

Altogether I spent about 15 years in the throes of American Evangelicalism and I was thinking that the LCMS that I grew up in were arrogant in their faith. I was spending a lot of time on the internet and started debates with Pastors and theologians of the LCMS to defend their positions on Baptism as I had taken the Baptist view of Baptism for myself at that point. I had even been re-baptised in a Baptist church in order to join. My wife came from that background and we had our children dedicated (they have since been baptized in a Lutheran church). I now fully embrace only the LCMS theology on Baptism and am able to challenge those in other denominations regarding their stand (what used to be mine) on these issues. My wife, however, is not quite there yet and I am praying that the Holy Spirit will move her to understand the folly of the Evangelical movement.

There you have it.

Scott Strohkirch

[ChiRho]

Well by the looks of it many of you have had some interesting stories of how you came to the Lutheran church and your experiences are much the same as mine.

I was born in 1961 and was baptized in an ALC Lutheran church which I attended for the first 5 years of my life. In my fifth year, my parents were tired of commuting such a long way every Sunday (about 15 miles) and decided to search for a church closer to the house they built the year before. I remember them going to a few other Lutheran churches before they settled on one and it was a Missouri-Synod (LCMS) church that they ended up joining.

I went through my whole teen years confirmation, high school youth and was in my early 20s when we moved to Colorado. We joined an LCMS church there and I was involved in the Singles group. I also was invited to attend a couple of charismatic churches for which I didn't particularly care for after attending. My career in Radio Broadcasting was just starting and I moved to a town in western Colorado where I attended a LCMS church there. I worked there for about 6-months. My next Radio job was in Southwest Wyoming (Kemmerer) where I spent the summer of 1985 and again attended the LCMS church in town.

I moved back to Minnesota at the end of summer that year and found that the church my parents and I belonged to really wasn't the same. My parents transferred their membership from Colorado back to Minnesota but I didn't and in fact being in my mid-twenties and single wanted to be with people I shared common things with. I started attending a Covenant church about 3 miles from my parents house (where I lived for another 9 years). They had a singles group that I instantly meshed with. I decided to join the church that the Single adult group met so that I could go to church with them. What I didn't realize was how different this church was. They had "contemporary" christian music in their service. I was young and hip and thought that was cool but didn't realize how different this all was.

During the next several years I would go from the Covenant church to the Baptist (general convention) to Independent Baptist to ELCA Lutheran and now finally back to LCMS Lutheran.

Altogether I spent about 15 years in the throes of American Evangelicalism and I was thinking that the LCMS that I grew up in were arrogant in their faith. I was spending a lot of time on the internet and started debates with Pastors and theologians of the LCMS to defend their positions on Baptism as I had taken the Baptist view of Baptism for myself at that point. I had even been re-baptised in a Baptist church in order to join. My wife came from that background and we had our children dedicated (they have since been baptized in a Lutheran church). I now fully embrace only the LCMS theology on Baptism and am able to challenge those in other denominations regarding their stand (what used to be mine) on these issues. My wife, however, is not quite there yet and I am praying that the Holy Spirit will move her to understand the folly of the Evangelical movement.

There you have it.

Scott Strohkirch

Welcome Home!!

Pax Christi,

ChiRho

[SPALATIN]

It broke my heart because my wife began to cry, but I was doing the right thing and even though it was hard, I felt at peace doing it. On the way home I was again assaulted with allegations that the devil was working to divide our marriage up. I asked her if it ever occurred to her that maybe God was working to merge our faiths together? :clap:


Having read your story I can relate to the wife thinking that the marriage is in trouble and in fact she still does. We joined a LCMS church primarily to get a break in our child's tuition. I became more tied to my roots than she did and that was a problem for her. I do not feel guilty for not wanting to go to a church where she feels comfortable. I have turned a switch where she is concerned and I can't go to anything but a true confessional Lutheran church. I am glad to know that the Mormon church shows their true colors every now and again otherwise you might still be stuck there.

Scott Strohkirch

[SPALATIN]

A good book to pick up is "Why I am Lutheran" by Daniel Preus. He is the First Vice President of the LCMS and is up for election to be President at the LCMS convention in June. From what I hear on Issues Etc. it would be a good book to read instead of Rick Warren's "Purpose Driven Life." You can get it at the Concordia Publishing House Website.

Scott Strohkirch

[ChiRho]

A good book to pick up is "Why I am Lutheran" by Daniel Preus. He is the First Vice President of the LCMS and is up for election to be President at the LCMS convention in June. From what I hear on Issues Etc. it would be a good book to read instead of Rick Warren's "Purpose Driven Life." You can get it at the Concordia Publishing House Website.

Scott Strohkirch

Friend indeed!
Anti-PDL! (Watch out for Rose, she is a PDL advocate! ;))
Preus for President! :clap:
I would offer Luther's Small Catechism as a great replacement for the Purpose Driven Life, but any solid Lutheran book would do!

I cannot wait to converse with you in the future! :)

Pax Christi,

ChiRho

[SPALATIN]

Friend indeed!
Anti-PDL! (Watch out for Rose, she is a PDL advocate! ;))
Preus for President! :clap:
I would offer Luther's Small Catechism as a great replacement for the Purpose Driven Life, but any solid Lutheran book would do!

I cannot wait to converse with you in the future! :)

Pax Christi,

ChiRho
He was just recently on Issues Etc on Sunday night. If you want to listen you can go to the KFUO website click on Issues tab and scroll down the page until you get to Sundays program. You can hear it on MP3 or WMA. :cool:

[Protoevangel]

I grew up in a believing, but non-church-going family. I remember going to a church only once or twice in my early years. When I was in 5th grade, we moved to this little town in New Mexico called House; it was about as small as one too. I began attending a Baptist church there. The only other church in town was a Methodist church. When I asked my parents if I could visit it one Sunday, they just about came unglued. Even though they never attended any church, no way was I ever going to set foot in a Methodist church.

We only spent one year in New Mexico, after which we moved back to the Oregon coast. I went to a church once or twice again, that’s about it. I started dabbling in the occult and eastern philosophy. I listened to Black Metal mostly (Slayer, Venom, Merciful Fate, etc), and had a growing interest in Satanism. After joining the Army, I pretty much moved away from any kind of faith. After leaving, I explored neo-paganism a little. I was searching, but I didn’t know it.

I married and had kids; my wife went to a Lutheran church, and took the kids, but never pushed me to go, which was fine with me. I was pretty much convinced at this point that believing in God was intellectual suicide. I actually did believe, but I wouldn’t admit it to myself or to anyone else.

I was pretty much absorbed by my hobby, aquariums. I spent all my time on aquaria related forums. One time this guy made a post (in a “general topics” sub-forum) talking about how all people deserved the death penalty, and how it was only God’s grace by which we are pardoned. I tore into this guy, and he met every one of my arguments with grace and charity. I assaulted him and he gently guided me into the truth. In no time at all, he had me searching out Bible passages so I could prove to him that this God of mercy he kept talking about, was schizo and malevolent. I found out later that he was in his last year to get his Masters in Theology.

After one particularly foul post I made against him, while driving home from work on a Sunday morning, I finally gave in to what I already knew to be true. With tears streaming down my face, soaking my shirt, I prayed to God and told him I no longer wanted to rebel against and fight him. I asked Jesus to make himself so real to me that I could never look away. When I got home that morning, I woke my wife up and told her I wanted to go to church. She seemed a little puzzled, but happy nonetheless.

During the announcements at the service, the pastor said there was a new member class starting that very day. A couple months later, on Easter day, I was baptized into the family of God. Still, I shied away from calling myself a Lutheran. I thought of myself as a Christian who attended a Lutheran church. It was not for a few years, recently in fact, when I realized that there was no shame in calling myself a Lutheran; that the name did not detract from my walk with Christ, but instead identified my faith for all to see. I had to know that I was not saying I followed Luther, no more than I would be following Paul, Apollos, or Cephas (cf 1 Cor 1:12). Now that I have learned what it is to be a Lutheran, I wear the title happily.

[ByzantineDixie]

Friend indeed!
Anti-PDL! (Watch out for Rose, she is a PDL advocate! ;))
Preus for President! :clap:
I would offer Luther's Small Catechism as a great replacement for the Purpose Driven Life, but any solid Lutheran book would do!

I cannot wait to converse with you in the future! :)

Pax Christi,

ChiRho

Oh brother...there are two of you now. :sigh:
I don't know that I have the stamina for that. It takes all the grace God gave me just to be civil to ChiRho!!! ;)

Actually, welcome SLS. :wave: As ChiRho warned:

Yes...I find value in PDL. Most of the Concordia bible studies make me :yawn:
No...I absolutely do not support Preus for Pres.

But I have learned to get along with ChiRho...we'll get along, too! (You'll just wince every now and then at what I write and then feel sorry for me because I am old enough to be ChiRho's mother and don't know any better than to post what I post! ;) ) And that's OK. I am the mother of two teenage boys--my skins has thickened dramatically over the years.

Glad to have you in the mix!

Rose

[SPALATIN]

Oh brother...there are two of you now. :sigh:
I don't know that I have the stamina for that. It takes all the grace God gave me just to be civil to ChiRho!!! ;)

Actually, welcome SLS. :wave: As ChiRho warned:

Yes...I find value in PDL. Most of the Concordia bible studies make me :yawn:
No...I absolutely do not support Preus for Pres.

But I have learned to get along with ChiRho...we'll get along, too! (You'll just wince every now and then at what I write and then feel sorry for me because I am old enough to be ChiRho's mother and don't know any better than to post what I post! ;) ) And that's OK. I am the mother of two teenage boys--my skins has thickened dramatically over the years.

Glad to have you in the mix!

Rose

Rose,

Can you tell me precisely what you find of value in PDL? I find the theology to be in error with scripture more than anything else.

The only person who ever had a purpose driven life was Christ. His purpose was to save us from our deserved punishment by taking the punishment for us. PDL says that we still have to do something to earn our heavenly rewards. Christ won those for us also in his death and resurrection. Please clarify for me what you find to be of value in a book that preaches works for rewards.

Scott Strohkirch

[ChiRho]

Rose,

Can you tell me precisely what you find of value in PDL? I find the theology to be in error with scripture more than anything else.

The only person who ever had a purpose driven life was Christ. His purpose was to save us from our deserved punishment by taking the punishment for us. PDL says that we still have to do something to earn our heavenly rewards. Christ won those for us also in his death and resurrection. Please clarify for me what you find to be of value in a book that preaches works for rewards.

Scott Strohkirch

*As it is very early (and ChiRho is barely awake and not firing on all cylinders), ChiRho winces just a bit and shudders ever so slightly as he attempts to predict Rose's response * :yawn: :eek: ....

Man, I hope you know what you are doing! ;)


Pax Christi,

ChiRho

[SPALATIN]

*As it is very early (and ChiRho is barely awake and not firing on all cylinders), ChiRho winces just a bit and shudders ever so slightly as he attempts to predict Rose's response * :yawn: :eek: ....

Man, I hope you know what you are doing! ;)


Pax Christi,

ChiRho
I suppose in retrospect I have asked the proverbial loaded question. But I am ready for it. I even have a PDL book at home to be able to answer her with rebuttals when necessary. I didn't buy the book but it was given to my wife and I as a Christmas present from her folks.

Scott Strohkirch

PS I like a good debate and it sharpens me.

[ChiRho]

I suppose in retrospect I have asked the proverbial loaded question. But I am ready for it. I even have a PDL book at home to be able to answer her with rebuttals when necessary. I didn't buy the book but it was given to my wife and I as a Christmas present from her folks.

Scott Strohkirch

PS I like a good debate and it sharpens me.

Ok. But Rose is a fine Lutheran...she isnt Rick Warren! Like you, I utterly despise the book...Rose has promised to express her support for the PDL in written form, sometime in the near future, so you may want to wait around for that and hear what she has to say before you "take her down" :D !

If you like, I have in my possession, the definitive Critical Review of the PDL, and I would gladly email it to you. (THIS HOLDS FOR ANYONE WHO IS INTERESTED!)

Pax Christi,

ChiRho

[ChiRho]

PS- Take Lotar's advice and put those blessings to good work...get a very cool avator!

[SPALATIN]

Ok. But Rose is a fine Lutheran...she isnt Rick Warren! Like you, I utterly despise the book...Rose has promised to express her support for the PDL in written form, sometime in the near future, so you may want to wait around for that and hear what she has to say before you "take her down" :D !

If you like, I have in my possession, the definitive Critical Review of the PDL, and I would gladly email it to you. (THIS HOLDS FOR ANYONE WHO IS INTERESTED!)

Pax Christi,

ChiRho
Email me at ScottStrohkirch@financial.wellsfargo.com

[Protoevangel]

ChiRho,

I am not necessarily a proponent of PDL, but have read more than half of it. But the critical reviews that I have read so far, have attacked the book unfairly, in my opinion.

I would like to read that definitive Critical Review of PDL you mention as well.

If you would be so kind as to email it, you can email it to dmhead@dmhead.us

Thanks,
Dan

[ByzantineDixie]

Oh ChiRho...I wish I was the verbal warrior you play me up to be but you know I am not. I'm more one to present my point of view and the reader can either agree with it or not (at his/her loss ;) !!!).

Hey, I'll PM you so you with my e-mail address so can send me that "Dark Lutheran" hype :sorry: (that was snotty of me... :( ). It will help me prepare for my book report. (But how am I going to do that and study up on the history of sacred music at the same time AND redesign the church website. ChiRho...this old gal needs to sleep sometime! ;) )

SLS...It is important that we do not confuse which plane of righteousness we are talking about when we look at PDL. PDL is not about vertical righteousness--justification. It is a study on horizontal righteousness--sanctification. Yes...there are some theological problems but nothing insurrmountable that a black marker with an Big X can not resolve in certain sections.

I beg to differ that our lives have no purpose. Each one of us has been called by the Gospel to go out and make disciples. That is a job we have been given and one that the Spirit equips us to do--and one that is near and dear to my heart these days. We have also been called to worship God, fellowship with other Christians, grow in the faith (actively pursuing the means of grace) and serve others.

Eph 2: 10 tells us that we are created by God to do the good works He has planned for us to do. I surely call that plan a purpose for our lives!!!

I'll stop now...and wait to assemble something thoughtful later.

'til then

Love y'all

Rose

[Pacigoth13]

I am a convert to Lutheranism. I converted because my wife has gone to a Lutheran church (almost) every sunday of her life.

[SPALATIN]

SLS...It is important that we do not confuse which plane of righteousness we are talking about when we look at PDL. PDL is not about vertical righteousness--justification. It is a study on horizontal righteousness--sanctification. Yes...there are some theological problems but nothing insurrmountable that a black marker with an Big X can not resolve in certain sections.

I beg to differ that our lives have no purpose. Each one of us has been called by the Gospel to go out and make disciples. That is a job we have been given and one that the Spirit equips us to do--and one that is near and dear to my heart these days. We have also been called to worship God, fellowship with other Christians, grow in the faith (actively pursuing the means of grace) and serve others.

Eph 2: 10 tells us that we are created by God to do the good works He has planned for us to do. I surely call that plan a purpose for our lives!!!

I'll stop now...and wait to assemble something thoughtful later.

Rose
Rose,

Maybe I should have been more clear. Yes our lives do have purpose, but that purpose shouldn't necessarily drive our lives. I live more by my vocations than I do ultimate purpose. I am a Father, Husband, Son, Worker, Each of those vocations has a separate purpose. As a Father my purpose is to bring my Children up in the word of God, As a Husband my vocation is to be there for my wife and support her in her endeavors, As a Son, I am to honor my Mother (Dad died) As head of the family I go and work at a job so as to semi-support us financially (two-income family).

So you see that I don't have a single purpose I have several purposes within each vocation and on top of all that I am a Christian and must go and Baptized all nations in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. But each of these purposes don't in and of themselves drive my life and theologically speaking the problem with focusing on sanctification instead of Christ Justification is that Sanctification takes the focus of Christ's work on the cross and puts it on me and what I must do for my heavenly rewards.

Each week I go to church to hear the Law and the Gospel. The Law convicts me of my sins and takes me to the Cross where Jesus is and he gives me the Good news that what he did 2000 years ago forgives me for my sin and I am reminded of the fact that I have been baptised with Water and the spirit and that he has now prepared a place for me when my time comes. If I go to church and hear nothing but a talk about what I must do to become a better Christian than I am hearing nothing but law. Rick Warren is giving you the law in his book because it focuses on what I must do to earn my heavenly rewards.

This is why I am not a fan of the book or the "fad."

The book is dangerous because it teaches this as scriptural when in fact it is not.

Scott Strohkirch:|

[Rechtgläubig]

I tried to rep ya, but I just did not too long ago, great post Scott.

[ByzantineDixie]

Rick Warren is giving you the law in his book because it focuses on what I must do to earn my heavenly rewards.

Scott, I surely do understand your point of view--indeed our vocations are part and parcel of our purpose. As you rightly suggest our faith should not be compartmentalized.

I would argue, however, that Rick Warren's book is about what one must do to earn heaven. Sanctification is the response to justification that the Holy Spirit works in us. The reason I think it is important to understand sanctification and to spend some time studying it is not to wallow in "Jesus and me" theology or the theology of the glory but rather to better understand our own sinfulness, our weakness, that causes us to turn for the leading of the Holy Spirit and causes us to reject the direction He is trying to take us. It helps to understand the pitfalls satan puts before us, the sly way he lures us away from the work that God would have us do.

Do we do work to "get anything", to earn "God brownie points"?--by no means!!! We do the work that God has called us to do, to be servants for His people. We are compelled to do these things because of the love Christ has shown us by his atoning sacrifice. We love, because He first loved us.

Should we spend all of our time studying sanctification...by no means!!! Should we spend NO time studying sanctification...I don't think that's good either. Jesus said (Matt 10:16) "I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves."

I am certainly not going to try to sell you on PDL--that's not my purpose either. ;) :D . I have said my peace on the matter.

God bless you

Rose

[SPALATIN]

Scott, I surely do understand your point of view--indeed our vocations are part and parcel of our purpose. As you rightly suggest our faith should not be compartmentalized.

I would argue, however, that Rick Warren's book is about what one must do to earn heaven. Sanctification is the response to justification that the Holy Spirit works in us. The reason I think it is important to understand sanctification and to spend some time studying it is not to wallow in "Jesus and me" theology or the theology of the glory but rather to better understand our own sinfulness, our weakness, that causes us to turn for the leading of the Holy Spirit and causes us to reject the direction He is trying to take us. It helps to understand the pitfalls satan puts before us, the sly way he lures us away from the work that God would have us do.

Do we do work to "get anything", to earn "God brownie points"?--by no means!!! We do the work that God has called us to do, to be servants for His people. We are compelled to do these things because of the love Christ has shown us by his atoning sacrifice. We love, because He first loved us.

Should we spend all of our time studying sanctification...by no means!!! Should we spend NO time studying sanctification...I don't think that's good either. Jesus said (Matt 10:16) "I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves."

I am certainly not going to try to sell you on PDL--that's not my purpose either. ;) :D . I have said my peace on the matter.

God bless you

Rose
Rose,

The problem with Warren's Book is that he does put it on us and what we must do to earn our heavenly rewards. I believe that because we are Justified we are sanctified. Jesus did both for us on the cross. We are sanctified by our faith which we would not have were it not given to us by God. He earned our heavenly rewards not us. I am sanctified when I confess that I am a sinner and have no right to heaven on my own merits.

Warren's book does say that we must do something to earn our heavenly rewards. It is full of Decision theology language.

Read it again.

Scott Strohkirch

[ByzantineDixie]

Hey ChiRho,

I read the review you sent me. I wrote this wonderful eloquent response where I indicated I agreed with much of what the reviewer said and in particular appreciated his ffairly non-vitriolic approach of the subject matter...something lacking in other Lutheran reviews. Then I launched into my thoughts on teaching Lutherans HOW to read non-Lutheran material and the benefits of that approach over the "do not touch" method...but unfortuntately my message disintegrated when I tried to send it to you via PM. Something about you not taking PM messages from me. Bummer....

Thanks for the read though.

Rose

[ChiRho]

Hey ChiRho,

I read the review you sent me. I wrote this wonderful eloquent response where I indicated I agreed with much of what the reviewer said and in particular appreciated his ffairly non-vitriolic approach of the subject matter...something lacking in other Lutheran reviews. Then I launched into my thoughts on teaching Lutherans HOW to read non-Lutheran material and the benefits of that approach over the "do not touch" method...but unfortuntately my message disintegrated when I tried to send it to you via PM. Something about you not taking PM messages from me. Bummer....

Thanks for the read though.

Rose

umm...

I have know idea about the pm...i havent changed anything and I know I have received pms from you in the past. I understand the frustration in watching hours of work disintegrate...especially when you are finished and trying to send it. My email is tyger_blue@hotmail.com. You may email me if you like.

Pax Christi,

ChiRho

[Protoevangel]

Hey ChiRho,

I read the review also. I would agree with what Rose said above. This was by far, the most thought-provoking and fair criticism of PDL I have read. My only problem with the whole review is that I thought Steve could have saved eight or nine pages simply by stating that he disagrees with general "modern evangelical" theology. ;)


All in all, a great critique; thank you.

[SPALATIN]

There is a printable copy of a roundtable discussion about Purpose Driven Life at WWW.KFUO.ORG (http://www.KFUO.ORG) and then click on the Issues Etc. tab scroll down a little and on the far right side of the screen you will see it. Download it and print it if you can. It is about 27 pages long and says much the same as your friend.

[filosofer]

Lifelong Lutheran - old enough to be AARP fodder.

[SPALATIN]

Recht,

Again having re-read your testimony especially the part about your wife and her difficulty at first seeing your church as anything but a division in your marriage I can totally relate to at this time.

She has finally agreed to go to the church I have chosen to attend but she doesn't see the Lutheran church as anything good. To her I am asking her to give up her beliefs. She has already been through an adult confirmation class and at the end refused to be confirmed not because she didn't agree with the sacraments but because she felt if she said yes to anything that she was saying yes to everything.


Please pray that God intervenes in a way that changes her heart and her mind or it is going to be a bumpy ride for the next 14 or so years.

[Rechtgläubig]

Recht,

Again having re-read your testimony especially the part about your wife and her difficulty at first seeing your church as anything but a division in your marriage I can totally relate to at this time.

She has finally agreed to go to the church I have chosen to attend but she doesn't see the Lutheran church as anything good. To her I am asking her to give up her beliefs. She has already been through an adult confirmation class and at the end refused to be confirmed not because she didn't agree with the sacraments but because she felt if she said yes to anything that she was saying yes to everything.


Please pray that God intervenes in a way that changes her heart and her mind or it is going to be a bumpy ride for the next 14 or so years.
Scott, I sure will! I know the feelings and it is hard. If I can offer any advice, it would be to not push, I thought big arguements and "discussions" (fights) were the answer to win her over, my pride, arogance, stupidity, and whatever else just got in the way of the Holy Spirit's work. Encourage her to go to bible studies, the services or whatever else your church offers, and let Him work through the Word.


:crosself:

[ByzantineDixie]

Please pray that God intervenes in a way that changes her heart and her mind or it is going to be a bumpy ride for the next 14 or so years.14 years, eh? This caught my attention because I have been a Lutheran for 14 years...and my husband would say that a part of that ride was very bumpy as well. Well, gee, you see how even now I still resist buying in to some teachings! Imagine how I was in those middle years when I had decided I no longer wanted to be a Lutheran!!!

But I am absolutely, without a doubt, confident that the Word works. I see it too often to not trust it. I have seen the Word work in each one of us in our family.

Recht's advice is pure wisdom. Don't worry, don't fight. The battle belongs to the Lord and His sword is the Word. Put on patience and put your trust in Him. Already there has been a victory with your wife even agreeing to attend your church! I will keep y'all in my prayers as well. :crosself:

(I can't wait until the day your wife becomes what my husband calls a "boll weevil" Lutheran--that's a Southern Lutheran for all you Yankees. We need more of those!)

Love ya

Rose

[SPALATIN]

Well it's advice I am willing to take at this point.

[SPALATIN]

bump

[Victrixa]

I will pray for your wife and yourself, Scott. My husband and I always follow each other, even spiritually, so I understand that your situation must be very hard. I'm waiting to see what happens next in our case... ;)

God give you peace. :crossrc:

This one is for you. :hug:

Caroline

[Qoheleth]

I would like to offer a few thoughts concerning the study of Rick
Warrens, "A Purpose driven life".

In The Purpose Driven Life, Rick Warren attempts to answer the age-old
question: "Why am I here?" He concludes each person exists: (1) for God's
pleasure, (2) to be in God's family, (3) to become like Christ, (4) to
serve God, (5) and to evangelize. Very quickly, at the book's
outset, Warren attacks our natural, self-centered ways: "It's not about
you," he hails (pg 17).

And what a lively text he has written! Simple prose covers its pages.
Short, bursting sentences drive home his point about a purpose-driven
life. Forceful expressions and illustrations bring his ideas into the
reader's real-world experience. Even for Lutherans, who use the expression
"the hammer of the Law," Warren turns up the notch in a refreshingly new
way. "If a jeweler's hammer isn't strong enough to chip off our rough
edges, God will use a sledgehammer. If we're really stubborn, he uses a
jackhammer. He will use whatever it takes." (pg 196)

Sadly, however, what he gives with the right hand in clear prose, Warren
takes away with the left by faulty theology. A worldview of free will in
the spiritual realm weaves its way through the text, creating a tangled
mess of twisted theology. Can one "dead in trespasses and sins" (Ephesians
2:1) truly want to "whisper the prayer that will change your eternity:
'Jesus, I believe in you and I receive you.'" (pg 58)? Can one really
"make God smile" and earn His favor by what he does? (pg 69) Christ is
"the source and perfecter of our faith" (Hebrews 12:2); He is our
"righteousness, sanctification, and redemption" (1 Corinthians 1:30). Yes,
Warren repeatedly writes that it's not about you, but then repeatedly goes
on about what you have to do to please God: he uses "you must" 73 times,
"you should" 35--but "God will" only 32 times and "God would" seven.

In The Purpose Driven Life, Warren slices out the very heart of the
Reformation, replacing it with the works righteousness of Rome (but with a
Protestant veneer). He makes good works, not Christ, the focus of the
Christian's life. His book is no mere third use of the Law: Warren makes
the Law one's motivator and the way to please God to earn His favor. Wasn'
t that what the Pharisees did?

The book's clear and compelling prose has opened my eyes to how accessible
and urgent true theology must be. This book has also made real for me how
dangerous false doctrine can be and how it panders to the old,
works-righteous Adam within us all. Thanks to Rick Warren, I know my
statements must be real, clear, understandable--and, at times, visceral
concerning the Gospel. Future sermons must pound with the "jackhammer" of
God's Law, not to motivate one toward good works as Warren does--but to
show forth sin and bring repentance. Then the Gospel seed shall find
fertile ground in the hearts made ready by the plowshares of the Law.

Warren's book builds on a foundation of *choice* and thus of *works.* The
work is attractively written, but it is poison for the soul. If he can't
get salvation straight, or Baptism straight, and has but one passing
mention of Holy Communion, and no clue about what the Office of the Holy
Ministry is all about, or about Christian's vocations, HOW can you expect
the book to be truly helpful? HOW, in anyway, is this Lutheran teaching
and doctrine, which is the reflection of the true interpretation of
scripture??

It will either land a person in self-righteous pride for turning their
life around; or in despair, that their life really hasn't changed. Better
to spend the time with REAL theology. If my perspective on this is in
error, please share with me your thoughts and scripture.

[SPALATIN]

I would like to offer a few thoughts concerning the study of Rick
Warrens, "A Purpose driven life".

In The Purpose Driven Life, Rick Warren attempts to answer the age-old
question: "Why am I here?" He concludes each person exists: (1) for God's
pleasure, (2) to be in God's family, (3) to become like Christ, (4) to
serve God, (5) and to evangelize. Very quickly, at the book's
outset, Warren attacks our natural, self-centered ways: "It's not about
you," he hails (pg 17).

And what a lively text he has written! Simple prose covers its pages.
Short, bursting sentences drive home his point about a purpose-driven
life. Forceful expressions and illustrations bring his ideas into the
reader's real-world experience. Even for Lutherans, who use the expression
"the hammer of the Law," Warren turns up the notch in a refreshingly new
way. "If a jeweler's hammer isn't strong enough to chip off our rough
edges, God will use a sledgehammer. If we're really stubborn, he uses a
jackhammer. He will use whatever it takes." (pg 196)

Sadly, however, what he gives with the right hand in clear prose, Warren
takes away with the left by faulty theology. A worldview of free will in
the spiritual realm weaves its way through the text, creating a tangled
mess of twisted theology. Can one "dead in trespasses and sins" (Ephesians
2:1) truly want to "whisper the prayer that will change your eternity:
'Jesus, I believe in you and I receive you.'" (pg 58)? Can one really
"make God smile" and earn His favor by what he does? (pg 69) Christ is
"the source and perfecter of our faith" (Hebrews 12:2); He is our
"righteousness, sanctification, and redemption" (1 Corinthians 1:30). Yes,
Warren repeatedly writes that it's not about you, but then repeatedly goes
on about what you have to do to please God: he uses "you must" 73 times,
"you should" 35--but "God will" only 32 times and "God would" seven.

In The Purpose Driven Life, Warren slices out the very heart of the
Reformation, replacing it with the works righteousness of Rome (but with a
Protestant veneer). He makes good works, not Christ, the focus of the
Christian's life. His book is no mere third use of the Law: Warren makes
the Law one's motivator and the way to please God to earn His favor. Wasn'
t that what the Pharisees did?

The book's clear and compelling prose has opened my eyes to how accessible
and urgent true theology must be. This book has also made real for me how
dangerous false doctrine can be and how it panders to the old,
works-righteous Adam within us all. Thanks to Rick Warren, I know my
statements must be real, clear, understandable--and, at times, visceral
concerning the Gospel. Future sermons must pound with the "jackhammer" of
God's Law, not to motivate one toward good works as Warren does--but to
show forth sin and bring repentance. Then the Gospel seed shall find
fertile ground in the hearts made ready by the plowshares of the Law.

Warren's book builds on a foundation of *choice* and thus of *works.* The
work is attractively written, but it is poison for the soul. If he can't
get salvation straight, or Baptism straight, and has but one passing
mention of Holy Communion, and no clue about what the Office of the Holy
Ministry is all about, or about Christian's vocations, HOW can you expect
the book to be truly helpful? HOW, in anyway, is this Lutheran teaching
and doctrine, which is the reflection of the true interpretation of
scripture??

It will either land a person in self-righteous pride for turning their
life around; or in despair, that their life really hasn't changed. Better
to spend the time with REAL theology. If my perspective on this is in
error, please share with me your thoughts and scripture.
Excellent analysis.

[Qoheleth]

This is a very hotly debated study in many churches, others though dont seem to notice the inherent problem with PDL as it relates to sound doctrine.