Different labels for the Orthodox Church

[twosid]

I'm still yet to go to a Liturgy. We will probably go to one this weekend. This should be simple but maybe not...I'm trying to take a break from looking things up...I'm about brain dead. Anyhow...what are the differences in the Orthodox Church labels like "Greek" and there is a pretty big Church about 10 minutes from my house that is "Coptic" Orthodox. There are others...you know better than me. Can you tell me the differences? Which one I'd want to attend and why? I can't recall the name of the one I was going to first but it was Oblio and Iacobus approved. :cool:

[Suzannah]

In what is meant by "Greek", "Russian", "Serbian" (mine) is only the ethnic background and origin of the church and its communion with all other Orthodoxy.

"Coptic" Orthodox is not in communion with the rest of Orthodoxy. They do not accept some of the latter councils. I am not completely familiar with those brothers and sisters but my understanding is that the breach between "us" and "them" will probably soon be healed through talks and future relations.

[Orthodox Andrew]

Russian means it's under the jurisdiction of the Patriarch of Moscow, Greek means it's under the Patriarch of Constantinople, etc.:)

[Iacobus]

I'm still yet to go to a Liturgy. We will probably go to one this weekend. This should be simple but maybe not...I'm trying to take a break from looking things up...I'm about brain dead. Anyhow...what are the differences in the Orthodox Church labels like "Greek" and there is a pretty big Church about 10 minutes from my house that is "Coptic" Orthodox. There are others...you know better than me. Can you tell me the differences? Which one I'd want to attend and why? I can't recall the name of the one I was going to first but it was Oblio and Iacobus approved. :cool:

Which is kind of like the Good Housekeeping Seal. :D

The Copts are Oriental Orthodox, who split off from the main body of Orthodoxy around 500 AD after the council of Chalcedon. At issue was a Christological question which will literally make your eyes glaze over. Nonetheless, as Oblio pointed out the other day, we excel in the small details. Thus we are not in communion with the Copts and their fellow Oriental Orthodox, including the Ethiopian Orthodox.

But fortunately, that may end soon (which for us may mean in the next century or two ;) ). There seems to be a growing awareness that the dispute was more semantics and Byzantine politics than anything else. I recently read an article by a Coptic priest explaining that they meant mia physis instead of mono physis -- which in a funny way explained things pretty well.

In Atlanta, though, the EO clergy and the OO clergy are very friendly with each other. Still, if I had a choice, I'd go to an EO church.

By the way, Twosid, I forgot to mention to you that you live very close to a huge Greek Church, Holy Transfiguration. Their new building is incredible, but then you do have to put up with an organ. I think they do their services all in Greek, too. Nice people though.

James

[Moros]

I prefer OCA and English Liturgy.

[twosid]

By the way, Twosid, I forgot to mention to you that you live very close to a huge Greek Church, Holy Transfiguration. Their new building is incredible, but then you do have to put up with an organ. I think they do their services all in Greek, too. Nice people though.
Can you give me the address or web site? I'd like to maybe go see it anyhow. My wife "loathes" organ music. I'm not real excited by it myself but will tolerate it if need be. What does the one I'm going to first have? A few strats and a couple of marshall stacks? :D I love piano by itself.....whats up with organs? The Catholic Church I've been visiting has only an organ. Btw we will probably be there Sunday...are you going?

[Kripost]

Regarding the Coptics, the liturgy has a different form compared to the byzantines. They use the Liturgy according to Saint Basil, which is longer, but share similarities with the Liturgy of Saint John Chrysostom. They also recognise Pope Shenouda III as the Patriarch of the the see of St Mark.

One major difference was that Holy Communion was received in the sanctuary, behind the iconostasis. The congregation enters through the iconostasis doors at the side, not through the main door, and communicants take of their shoes as they enter.

In the Coptic parish I attended, some parts of the liturgy were sung in Coptic, while others were in Arabic. It may vary from parish to parish, depending on demographics. Some Coptic words sound like Greek, e.g. kyrie eleison. The other difference I can remember was the use of cymbals.

[nicodemus]

Two sid, there are plenty of Orthodox Churches in Atlanta where you won't have to hear an organ. An organ in an Orthodox church is an aberration and totally against tradition.

I would suggest going to http://saintjohnwonderworker.org/ Saint John the Wonderworker Orthodox Church or St. Mary of Egypt Orthodox Church: http://www.oca.org/pages/directory/listing.asp?KEY=OCA-SO-AVESME

both of those churches do their liturgies in English. I would highly recommend starting at a church where they speak your language!

[Orthodox Andrew]

Two sid, there are plenty of Orthodox Churches in Atlanta where you won't have to hear an organ. An organ in an Orthodox church is an aberration and totally against tradition.

I would suggest going to http://saintjohnwonderworker.org/ Saint John the Wonderworker Orthodox Church or St. Mary of Egypt Orthodox Church: http://www.oca.org/pages/directory/listing.asp?KEY=OCA-SO-AVESME

both of those churches do their liturgies in English. I would highly recommend starting at a church where they speak your language!
I would like to second that.:wave:

[Marissa]

I have a question and it sort of pertains to this so if you don't mind I'll ask it in here instead of clogging up your forum with a new thread.

From what I know there are 4 Orthodox "popes" (I'm sorry I don't know the correct terms. The orthodox church isn't large here) though I realise there used to be 5 until the Roman pope declared himself a know it all and starting the RC Church, no offense meant to any RC's reading the thread.

Why 5 and where did you get the original 5 from? And when did they come into play.

Following from that, where are they situation and do they have their own "branch" they tend to, and if so, how is this split up given most of the world wasn't discovered when the 5 came into place?

I hope you don't mind my questions, as simple as they are. As I said the orthodox church isn't large here in Australia and I have basically no knowledge of it at all yet I like to the basics of various churches.

[Matthias]

Join the club, Marissa! It's even more tiny over here! Hence the reason some of them celebrate the Divine Liturgy every few months! :)

[Iacobus]

Can you give me the address or web site? I'd like to maybe go see it anyhow. My wife "loathes" organ music. I'm not real excited by it myself but will tolerate it if need be. What does the one I'm going to first have? A few strats and a couple of marshall stacks? :D I love piano by itself.....whats up with organs? The Catholic Church I've been visiting has only an organ. Btw we will probably be there Sunday...are you going?

Holy Transfiguration is on Trickum Road. I don't know the street number, but if you go towards Marietta on Trickum, it will be on the right. They just finished their new building the first of this year. It looks precisely like some of the centuries old churches I saw in Greece, at least on the outside. Needs more icons/frescoes on the inside though. Since my church doesn't have a permanent building of our own, HT will lend us theirs for special occasions such as weddings or our patronal feast day. They are very kind, and the priest is a good friend of our priest.

The organ thing is kind of a sore point. As a rule, there are no instruments in Orthodox churches -- the music is all a capella, all the time. American Greek churches started installing organs some decades ago. I'm told the thinking was that their neighbors all had one, so they wanted one too. If you are used to traditional Orthodox music, its very unsettling to hear the organ.

My eldest daughter goes to a Greek church when she is away at college. She loves the church, and even ended up being a classics (read "Greek") major, but has also announced that she is on a secret mission to get them to dump the organ. Its really almost funny (if it weren't so sad) to go to church there: they have these incredibly psaltis -- individual chanters -- who are just wonderful, one chanting in Greek followed by the other in english, but when they finish, this kind of muddy organ tromps in. Really bizarre. On the other hand, the use of Greek is not necessarily bad. I think most Greek churches in the US mix English and Greek in some proportion, just like the Russian churches mix languages. I suspect it depends on a person's tolerance for that sort of thing.

Anyway, myself and secret agent daughter, home from college, will be at St. Elizabeth's (no organ or anything, all english, all the time -- well, except at Pascha) this Sunday. :cool: I'd love to see you there. My wife will be on a secret mission of her own, involving Oblio of all people, so she won't be around. If you guys do a repeat visit, I know she would like to meet your wife.

James

[Sergius_Lucius]

I have a question and it sort of pertains to this so if you don't mind I'll ask it in here instead of clogging up your forum with a new thread.

From what I know there are 4 Orthodox "popes" (I'm sorry I don't know the correct terms. The orthodox church isn't large here) though I realise there used to be 5 until the Roman pope declared himself a know it all and starting the RC Church, no offense meant to any RC's reading the thread.

Why 5 and where did you get the original 5 from? And when did they come into play.

Following from that, where are they situation and do they have their own "branch" they tend to, and if so, how is this split up given most of the world wasn't discovered when the 5 came into place?

I hope you don't mind my questions, as simple as they are. As I said the orthodox church isn't large here in Australia and I have basically no knowledge of it at all yet I like to the basics of various churches.

Hello Marissa. Welcome to TAW!

Today we have 15 autocephalous (independent) Churches, they are listed here: http://www.oca.org/pages/orth_chri/Orthodox-Churches/index.htm. Some were founded by the apostles in 1st century, some later. All Churches have their own heads, who bear different titles: Patriarch, Pope, Catholicos, Metropolitan etc. but noone has any control outside his Church and even he is subject to the Bishops' Council of his Church. All Churches share same Orthodox doctrine and differ only culturally.

Note: This refers to so-called Eastern, or Chalcedonian, Orthodoxy. Oriental, or Non-Chalcedonian, Churches have their own structure (http://aggreen.net/autocephaly/oriental.html).

If you have any other questions, please ask.

[ufonium2]

Ack!!! Organ!!!

I think GOARCH really needs to step back and ask themselves: Was it organs in 19th century Russia?

No. It was not.

[Marissa]

Hello Marissa. Welcome to TAW!

Today we have 15 autocephalous (independent) Churches, they are listed here: http://www.oca.org/pages/orth_chri/Orthodox-Churches/index.htm. Some were founded by the apostles in 1st century, some later. All Churches have their own heads, who bear different titles: Patriarch, Pope, Catholicos, Metropolitan etc. but noone has any control outside his Church and even he is subject to the Bishops' Council of his Church. All Churches share same Orthodox doctrine and differ only culturally.

Note: This refers to so-called Eastern, or Chalcedonian, Orthodoxy. Oriental, or Non-Chalcedonian, Churches have their own structure (http://aggreen.net/autocephaly/oriental.html).

If you have any other questions, please ask.

Thanks SL. Obviously the orthodox I talked to didn't know his history real well. I'll have a look through that first link to get a feel for your beliefs. If I have more questions I certainly will come back.

[twosid]

Holy Transfiguration is on Trickum Road. I don't know the street number, but if you go towards Marietta on Trickum, it will be on the right.

I just got off the phone with them and their (divine liturgy) whatever that is is both in Greek and English. They are also having a Greek festival this weekend....Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. Free beer and wine. :clap:Yeahhhhh! I can become a drunk again. Anyhow....It sounds pretty big...the girl was talking about using parking from 2 additional Churches nearby and a schools parking and shuttling folks to and from. The Church secretary I spoke with was Catholic. I think I offended her :sigh: cause when she told me she was Catholic I said why are you working there ya'll are fighting with one another aren't you? I was kidding but I think she was miffed. She said "No, we love one another." and put me in my place in a hurry :sorry:. Anyhow she is taking her family to this festival thingy and it sounds pretty awesome as I love Greek food and actually already eat it a couple times a week. So anyhow I was just throwing that information out. Oh...it was also pretty strange to hear someone with a deep southern accent answer the phone in Greek saying I'm assuming "Christ is Risen" because she said that in English right afterwards. I'm glad cause me no speak Greek. It is interesting how I seem to keep putting my foot in my mouth with the Orthodox folks. God seems to be trying to shut my big mouth. I can't seem to get away with my usual bluntness. Along those same lines....Suzannah, Courtney, and Heather radiate a Holiness that I've not found elsewhere and I do not take it lightly that they are all members of the Orthodox Church.

[Sergius_Lucius]

Ack!!! Organ!!!

I think GOARCH really needs to step back and ask themselves: Was it organs in 19th century Russia?

No. It was not.

It was not but was suggested at the Council of 1917.

Complete analysis of the organ problem:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/newboard/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=3224

We could organize an OC.net covert organ robbing raid across America. Steal the organs, sell them to the Episcopal or Catholic Church and use the money for sending the GOA' choirs off for singing lessons. Problem solved

[Kripost]

I hope you don't mind my questions, as simple as they are. As I said the orthodox church isn't large here in Australia and I have basically no knowledge of it at all yet I like to the basics of various churches.

Which town/city are you from? Most cities have several orthodox parishes, and as far as I can tell, the largest group being the Greek Orthodox.

By the way, I am in Perth.

[Marissa]

I'm not actually looking for an orthodx church for myself (I currently attend Assemblies of God). I realise there are some orthodox chuches, but the presence of the orthodox church is quite small comparatively to church denominations so I simply haven't been exposed to it to a great extent. I just like to clear up lack of knowledge about other denominations when it comes to my attention. It's the best way to avoid unnecessary misunderstandings amongst family. Thank you for you post anyhow. If I ever decide to convert I know where to come. :)

[Matthias]

No differences from the various Orthodox parishes in communion with each other, except name, language, and a few minor differences.