Question about Baptist :)

[BjBarnett]

Hello my fellow brethern in Chirst :)

I was at a Baptist church with my girlfriend (who is Baptist) and at the end of the services they had two people that were switching churches (going to different Baptist churches). Anyhow they had to vote to see if there letters could be sent to the other churches to grant them to leave that church. My question is does every Baptist church do this? if so why? and what would happen if they didnt grant you permission to leave? Im formerly Baptist and ive seen things like this in the Missionary Baptist churches around this area. Maybe its just a thing that just happens around here. Anyway I hope I told that right so you guys will know what im talking about and wont think im stupid :) haha. anyhow thanks in advanced.

[Crazy Liz]

Most Baptist churches I have been in do not do this, but many Mennonite churches still do. It is not a question of granting permission to leave the church, but of giving a letter to the other church recommending the transfer of their membership.

Many churches have dropped this practice because a "church letter" saying someone is a memeber in good standing and recommended for fellowship elsewhere has come to be so routine as to be practically meaningless. Therefore, churches have tended to put more emphasis on examining the person for themselves before accepting them into membership. As this emphasis has increased, "church letters" have gone into disuse in many places. Personally, having grown up Mennonite, I was quite surprised to have joined a new church and later have the old one call me to ask whether I wanted to be removed from membership. Among Mennonites there would ALWAYS be at least some sort of communication between the old church and the new church when a person changes membership.

I think "church letters" need to be revived in importance and made a more serious matter. People are accepted into new churches on the basis of their word alone, with no input from those who know how they have lived their lives over a period of time. A person may resign from one church with a disciplinary matter pending an dgo join another church, and the second church would never know about the disciplinary matter, or they would accept the applicant's side of the story without ever even inquiring about the other side. This makes any kind of church discipline virtually meaningless.

Some statistical evidence to support this idea can be found in the Barna statistics on divorce in various denominations. Roman Catholics and Lutherans have a divorce rate (meaning in this study percentage of adults who have ever been divorced, with a national average around 30%) significantly lower than the national average - around 20%. Baptists and non-denominationals have significantly higher rates than the national average - around 40%. One thing the denominations with high divorce rates have in common is a tendency to accept members without any administrative process that includes any sort of "background check" - i.e. contacting their previous church(es). This tendency seriously undermines church discipline. Peacemaker Minsitries ("http://www.hispeace.org) has proposed some procedures to try to strengthen churches ability to exercise discipline over members, including a clause in the membership covenant prohibiting resignation while a disciplinary matter is pending. I don't think this is quite the right approach, but it does indicate that Christians are thinking in this direction.

[BjBarnett]

thanks very much Crazy Liz! Almost all of the Missionary Baptist churches in this area (and there is a blue million of them lol) still practice the church letter system. Thanks again Liz! :)

[JOYfulbeliever]

Wow. I've never seen them ask for permission to leave with the vote! That's a new one on me! :D

We do "vote" when someone joins the church by letter or statement of faith - although, in actuality, it's not really a vote. It's more the show of support for the person coming into the church - at least, that's how it is in my church. No one has been "rejected" during the "vote." :D

[jenptcfan]

I think it's really just a formality, more than anything. It's a way of letting the old church know that the member will not be attending there anymore (that's how people are removed from sunday school rolls and the like). I've never seen anyone vote not to accept a new member. In fact, we don't really vote people in. When someone new joins, we'll announce it to the congregation and we're told to welcome them. Then at a business meeting, usually in the minutes of the meeting, we'll have a list of those who have joined and those who have left the church. But I've never seen anyone say "hold it right there! Those people can't leave the church!" or vice versa. ;)

[BjBarnett]

I think it's really just a formality, more than anything. It's a way of letting the old church know that the member will not be attending there anymore (that's how people are removed from sunday school rolls and the like). I've never seen anyone vote not to accept a new member. In fact, we don't really vote people in. When someone new joins, we'll announce it to the congregation and we're told to welcome them. Then at a business meeting, usually in the minutes of the meeting, we'll have a list of those who have joined and those who have left the church. But I've never seen anyone say "hold it right there! Those people can't leave the church!" or vice versa. ;)

lol... yeah id hate to see a legal battle between a church and a person trying to leave. Thanks for the replys guys :)

[MikeMcK]

Most Baptist churches (including mine) vote to accept members, but I've never heard of a church voting to let a person go.

What would the purpose of that be?

[DeaconDean]

Hello my fellow brethern in Chirst :)

I was at a Baptist church with my girlfriend (who is Baptist) and at the end of the services they had two people that were switching churches (going to different Baptist churches). Anyhow they had to vote to see if there letters could be sent to the other churches to grant them to leave that church. My question is does every Baptist church do this? if so why? and what would happen if they didnt grant you permission to leave? Im formerly Baptist and ive seen things like this in the Missionary Baptist churches around this area. Maybe its just a thing that just happens around here. Anyway I hope I told that right so you guys will know what im talking about and wont think im stupid :) haha. anyhow thanks in advanced.

Crazy Liz is right, that used to be a practice which most all Baptist churches did, and Missionary and Independant used to do this also. It is becoming an almost archaic idea in these modern times. Now my church still practices this, but as said before, the leaving member is leaving the church as one in good standing, and the sending of the former members letter would be an acceptable letter to the receiving church in essence saying that this would a good member to have as a member of their congregation. Also, it serves as a way to either say, yea we approve, or nay, they caused problems here, so maybe they'll cause problems there.

My point illustrated here:

People are accepted into new churches on the basis of their word alone, with no input from those who know how they have lived their lives over a period of time. A person may resign from one church with a disciplinary matter pending an dgo join another church, and the second church would never know about the disciplinary matter, or they would accept the applicant's side of the story without ever even inquiring about the other side. This makes any kind of church discipline virtually meaningless.


I personally hope this practice never stops. BTW, thanks for the illustration Crazy Liz, couldn't have said it better myself.

[seebs]

Most Quaker groups still do this, I think. Of course, Quakers being Quakers, any individual case can have weird implications. My Meeting recently reached an agreement with a neighboring Meeting to take a marriage under the joint care of both meetings, because the couple had relationships with both congregations. It's unusual, but we are fine with unusual; every case deserves individual consideration.

[RED that's ME]

A lot of church still do this whether it be in a whole church meeting or just leadership to be aware of the situation. I do know of some pastors/churches who will contact former churches to see if there was any problems with the members at previous churches.
My church has a new member's class where they go through basic doctrine, ministries to get involved in, taking spiritual gifts/personality test to see where you best can minister.

[ZiSunka]

Hello my fellow brethern in Chirst :)

I was at a Baptist church with my girlfriend (who is Baptist) and at the end of the services they had two people that were switching churches (going to different Baptist churches). Anyhow they had to vote to see if there letters could be sent to the other churches to grant them to leave that church. My question is does every Baptist church do this? if so why? and what would happen if they didnt grant you permission to leave? Im formerly Baptist and ive seen things like this in the Missionary Baptist churches around this area. Maybe its just a thing that just happens around here. Anyway I hope I told that right so you guys will know what im talking about and wont think im stupid :) haha. anyhow thanks in advanced.

Some baptist and anabaptist churches do that. They don't usually do it in front of the people, but it's usually done at a board meeting or congregational business meeting.

The one thing I want to stress to you is that the vote isn't on permission to leave the church, they vote on whether or not to issue a letter of transfer of membership, and if so, what the contents of the letter will be.

For instance, when I moved from Cleveland to Dayton, I wanted to transfer my membership to a local congregation. I asked my old church for a letter of transfer to my new church because I didn't want to have to go through membership classes and a proving period all over again.

The people from my old church were called to vote on whether or not the church should issue a letter of recommendation or a letter or transfer. A letter of transfer would allow me to join the new congregation without classes or a proving period, but a letter of recommendation would mean that although they believed I would be a good asset to the new church, I needed to take the classes over again because my life didn't show that I was fully committed to Christ.

They issued me a letter of transfer.

I took that letter to the new church, but they decided after reading it and conversing with my old pastor that they could not accept the transfer because they were a much more conservative congregation than my old church had been. They felt the old church was too liberal (not all of the women wore head coverings and some of the men had jobs in technical fields) and wanted to require classes, a proving period and perfect attendance at all meeting times.

I chose to affliate with a Mennonite USA church that was more distant from my home, but that would accept my letter of transfer.

One reason churches do it this way is, sometimes people will get mad and up and leave a church without saying a word to anyone or because they had been corrected on something they did that was wrong. The voting is a way of letting those people know that they are still wanted in the church. If the church votes against letting them go, the people can still leave, they just don't get a letter to give to their new pastor.

Another reason is because it brings the congregation together to honor and thank people for their friendship and service in a public way.

A third reason is, if someone knows something questionable about the person, the pastor and elders need to know before that letter is issued, so they can be honest with the new pastor.

So it's not a control thing at all and nobody gets chained up in the basement if the vote doesn't go their way. :D

[ZiSunka]

Oh, and my dad's presbyterian church does it, too. The session (governing board) votes on the person's request to leave, then that vote is reported to the congregation. Different process, but same idea.

[aReformedPatriot]

The member in question seems to be transerring his membership from one church to the other. In Baptist circles, it doesn't surprise me ithat the church votes on whether or not to approve their letter of reccomendation. It's pretty customary, I thought, that if one church is going to endorse an individual for membership in a sister church that the whole church ought to be involved in that descision. I don't think the issue here is with them being denied permission to leave the church.

[HypoTypoSis]

Most Baptist churches (including mine) vote to accept members, but I've never heard of a church voting to let a person go.

What would the purpose of that be?

With a letter of recommendation from the former church approving that the 'movers' were acceptable members thus their acceptance into the new church is more likely to be approved and their acceptance in joining is more likely to be quicker. The greater the recommendation, which often can also be followed up with telephone calls and in person visits, the greater the possibility that it also avoids the usual questions of is (re)baptism necessary, can they be allowed to participate as elders, deacons, teachers, etc sooner, are they good supporters, are they active in church politics and its various activities and functions, etc. Basically, it streamlines the process.

HypoTypoSis

[edb19]

Most Baptist churches (including mine) vote to accept members, but I've never heard of a church voting to let a person go.

What would the purpose of that be?

My church practice is the same.

Regarding people leaving - we've had 2 families move to other states in the past 12 months:( We give them a going away pot-luck (Baptists excel at pot-lucks) and cry when they leave:thumbsup:

edie

[ZiSunka]

(Baptists excel at pot-lucks)

Yep, anabaptists, too.

It's unusual for us to not be able to find a reason to have a potluck.

Have you ever heard that song, "God Be With You Till We Eat Again"?

[DeaconDean]

Most Baptist churches (including mine) vote to accept members, but I've never heard of a church voting to let a person go.

What would the purpose of that be?

The idea for that is, most of the power, pardon the usage, in the church, least wise in the Baptist church that is, is within the congegation. The congegation calls the pastor, they elect deacons, elders, which ever you choose to call or use. The church votes for the committees in the church, They vote for Sunday School teachers, etc. So why wouldn't the church vote on leaving members.

The Pastor at our church yeilds very little "power", the church holds that. What would happen if the Pastor had it all? What would happen if your Pastor was caught in adultry and held all the power? You couldn't vote him out, could you? No, the "power" in the church comes from the members. So why shouldn't the members have something to say about leaving members? Especially if they had caused some problems within before they left? I could not in good conscience let a member leave and join another church knowing that they had caused problems in my church, and in most likelihood, would do the same in theirs. Another thing, the church letter is more or less, a churches record that the departing member has accepted Jesus, been Baptized, and is ready to be accepted in good standing so that they may immediately be able, after joining the new church, to participate in communion.

That last part mat be disputable, so if I'm wrong, I'll not dispute you.

God Bless