Power battle roils Greek Orthodox church

[Moros]

Ecumenism only goes so far. This is real Orthodoxy.

http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-greek09.html

[...]

About 100 Chicago area Greek Christians met to discuss an ongoing battle over the balance of power in their church.

One of their resounding cries: Let's not let what happened to the Roman Catholics happen to us.

At the heart of the debate is whether a new charter issued in 2003 by the Greek Orthodox hierarchy could erode laity power. Unlike in previous years, the new charter was issued without the approval or feedback of lay church members in the United States and elsewhere.

Greek Orthodox Christians pride their church on the power of its lay membership.

Giving too much power to the Patriarchate in Istanbul, Turkey, is like Catholics giving too much power to Rome, they said.
Greek Christians fear they would lose checks they have on the power structure.

"It's moving to a papist, Roman Catholic model, not an Orthodox model," said Peter Marudas, an Orthodox Christian Laity council member.

Marudas said the laity wants a model "centered on tradition -- and that's local autonomy."

[...]

"The Orthodox church in America is very important," the Zion Republican said. "It should not be ignored by the Patriarchate."

[Rilian]

This has been going on for a while hasn't it? The Orthodox Christian Laity who I think are the people involved in the story are the ones who got Archbishop Spyridon thrown out back in 99 weren't they? Assuming it is them they've been in a long running fight with the EP over getting autonomy for the American church for numerous reasons. I'm guessing a big part of this is who has control of the money which comes from the GOA.

[I meant to add that I think this has nothing to do with ecumenism.]

[Cradle]

I live in England and therefore I do not intend to interfere with the problems of Orthodoxy in America. I believe the faithful in the US should agree upon their own model of handling the local church affairs. However, with all due respect, I find myself in disagreement with statements such as the following

"Our parents built the churches themselves, not the bishop in Turkey"

This man should not forget that "the churches" are neither his living room nor his souvlaki house but the House of the Lord. And they don't belong to him by inheritance or by culture, but to the Lord.

Real Orthodoxy is about avoiding the extremes of both roman clerical autocracy and protestant populism. I have heard stories about GOA parishes in the 80s where the parishioners literally sacked their priests because their long beards and their advice ("come to confession" and "prepare before you come to communion, preferably more than once a year") were not in line with the souvlaki-retsina-kamaki culture. Don't know if the stories are true, but my source (relative by blood) would not lie to me.

The Orthodox Way, the Way of the Holy Spirit, is always the middle way.

[Oblio]

I live in England and therefore I do not intend to interfere with the problems of Orthodoxy in America. I believe the faithful in the US should agree upon their own model of handling the local church affairs. However, with all due respect, I find myself in disagreement with statements such as the following



This man should not forget that "the churches" are neither his living room nor his souvlaki house but the House of the Lord. And they don't belong to him by inheritance or by culture, but to the Lord.

Real Orthodoxy is about avoiding the extremes of both roman clerical autocracy and protestant populism. I have heard stories about GOA parishes in the 80s where the parishioners literally sacked their priests because their long beards and their advice ("come to confession" and "prepare before you come to communion, preferably more than once a year") were not in line with the souvlaki-retsina-kamaki culture. Don't know if the stories are true, but my source (relative by blood) would not lie to me.

The Orthodox Way, the Way of the Holy Spirit, is always the middle way.

Amin !

Especially the bold part. Having just built a new chuch, we as a mission strive to remember that bit of truth. It is not our's but His, as soon as we forget that, our troubles will really begin.

[MariaRegina]

Ecumenism only goes so far. This is real Orthodoxy.

http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-greek09.html

[...]

About 100 Chicago area Greek Christians met to discuss an ongoing battle over the balance of power in their church.

One of their resounding cries: Let's not let what happened to the Roman Catholics happen to us.

At the heart of the debate is whether a new charter issued in 2003 by the Greek Orthodox hierarchy could erode laity power. Unlike in previous years, the new charter was issued without the approval or feedback of lay church members in the United States and elsewhere.

Greek Orthodox Christians pride their church on the power of its lay membership.

Giving too much power to the Patriarchate in Istanbul, Turkey, is like Catholics giving too much power to Rome, they said.
Greek Christians fear they would lose checks they have on the power structure.

"It's moving to a papist, Roman Catholic model, not an Orthodox model," said Peter Marudas, an Orthodox Christian Laity council member.

Marudas said the laity wants a model "centered on tradition -- and that's local autonomy."

[...]

"The Orthodox church in America is very important," the Zion Republican said. "It should not be ignored by the Patriarchate."

Dear Bruns:

Surely you must realize that the OCL is a mason-controlled group, which is not spiritually minded. They have persecuted Father Ephraim of Mt. Athos as they also oppose monasticism.

Let us pray for their conversion and true repentance.

Yours in Christ our God,
Elizabeth

[Moros]

I have heard that Bartholomew is a Mason, also, but I never see any proof for these things.

[Matrona]

I have heard that Bartholomew is a Mason, also, but I never see any proof for these things.
It is unkind of you to refer to the Ecumenical Patriarch that way. I find it alarming that you would refer to him by such disrespectful language. He is a patriarch of the Church.

Anyway, whether the OCL is run by the Masons or the Los Angeles Crips--chanter, it would perhaps do better if you had backed up your allegations against them. I am not a big fan of the OCL either, but we must be careful that our remarks on them don't cross the line into defamation.

[Moros]

It is unkind of you to refer to the Ecumenical Patriarch that way. I find it alarming that you would refer to him by such disrespectful language. He is a patriarch of the Church.

That does not change the fact that I have heard he was a Mason.

[MariaRegina]

It is unkind of you to refer to the Ecumenical Patriarch that way. I find it alarming that you would refer to him by such disrespectful language. He is a patriarch of the Church.

Anyway, whether the OCL is run by the Masons or the Los Angeles Crips--chanter, it would perhaps do better if you had backed up your allegations against them. I am not a big fan of the OCL either, but we must be careful that our remarks on them don't cross the line into defamation.

The OCL has attacked Father Ephraim with all kinds of false accusations. I have read their excuse for a "newspaper" and unfortunately, I am on their mailing list as they stole the mailing list from the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese without permission. This should tell you who these people really are. They have defamed our Holy Orthodox Church by making false accusations against not only Father Ephraim but also Archbishop Spyridon. Archbishop Spyridon is a deeply spiritual hierarch who gave wonderful sermons. I miss him. The OCL almost single handedly kicked him out of office.

Many folks in the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese have told me that the leadership in the OCL is known to be masonic. They are some of the richest and most powerful men in America. Their hatred of monasticism is evident because these masons have a hatred for anything spiritual, especially the monastic way.

Perhaps I will be unpopular for saying these things, but I feel very strongly about this matter. People should know who the OCL are and what damage they are capable of doing.

To be forewarned is very important. Our very faith is at risk. In one of their newsletters, the OCL leadership boldly stated that they want the Greek Archdiocese to prevent the laity from visiting monasteries and going to Holy Confession to hieromonks. They would destroy our freedom. They do not want athonite monasticism here in America. Why such hatred from these people?

We must pray for them that they may be saved.

Lord Jesus Christ have mercy on us and save us.

[nikephoros_spatharios]

This is what the OCL recommends:

http://www.ocl.org/recc.htm

5. Tonsured women should be welcomed to serve in the Sanctuary as are men.
7. The Church must make it clear that natural bodily functions should in no way bar anyone from participation in the sacraments.
3. Married clergy should be eligible for elevation to bishop.

I hope that these views do not have wide appeal among Greek Orthodox Americans. Unfortunately, seeing churches with organs, shaved priests, Latin collars etc., I have to wonder about the ill effects of syncretism on the Orthodox Church in the New World.

[MariaRegina]

This is what the OCL recommends:

http://www.ocl.org/recc.htm

5. Tonsured women should be welcomed to serve in the Sanctuary as are men.
7. The Church must make it clear that natural bodily functions should in no way bar anyone from participation in the sacraments.
3. Married clergy should be eligible for elevation to bishop.

I hope that these views do not have wide appeal among Greek Orthodox Americans. Unfortunately, seeing churches with organs, shaved priests, Latin collars etc., I have to wonder about the ill effects of syncretism on the Orthodox Church in the New World.






AMEN!

[Matrona]

This is what the OCL recommends:

http://www.ocl.org/recc.htm

5. Tonsured women should be welcomed to serve in the Sanctuary as are men.
7. The Church must make it clear that natural bodily functions should in no way bar anyone from participation in the sacraments.
3. Married clergy should be eligible for elevation to bishop.
:sick:

I don't believe in barring women from receiving the Eucharist during their menstrual periods (and my spiritual father said it's on my conscience), but this group is apparently giving a bad name to the laity's traditional position in the Orthodox Church. :sigh:

[Matthias]

I don't fully understand all of this; so I will keep quiet on this situation until I am more aware of it.