Is Masturbation a Sin?

[Sascha Fitzpatrick]

What about if I'm showing my (as yet unknown) husband love by letting him masturbate when I'm too tired?

If he's not going to get to sleep because he's 'frisky', I think I'm acting out of love by suggesting he get rid of the urge - he can still do it while holding me and thinking of me.

I think in that instance, and in instances when I'm away that masturbation is ok.

I'm still unsure of unmarried masturbation - when you're a little kid and 'exploring' I don't think it's all that bad - but I think that if you have no 'married' way of relieving it, then you need to focus your mind elsewhere at that time.

When you're married, and alone or the other partner is too tired, I would tend to find it ok to utilise. That is, of course, unless I knew that there was a porn/lust problem going on.

Sasch

[christ_in_me]

I wrote on this topic a few days ago defending masturbation but I was doing a bible study today and the topic is "When a practice is not included in what God has authorized, should we participate in it or not?" (The following was taken from a website with a list of bible study topics.) 2 Peter 1:3 tell us that the scriptures provide us to do every good work. “His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness.” The question is what about those acts that the bible does not discuss, in this case, masturbation. We have to remember that ‘Only Divine Authority, not Human Authority, Is Acceptable in Religion.’

The Bible teaches about five main things.
I. The Bible teaches us Wisdom:
Isaiah 55:8,9 8 "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,"
declares the LORD. 9 "As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.”

Jeremiah 10:23
23 I know, O LORD, that a man's life is not his own;
it is not for man to direct his steps.

These verses teach us that God’s thoughts and ways are different from ours. His thoughts and His ways are higher than ours. They surpass and go far beyond our thoughts and ways. We have limited knowledge of our own ways. We are mere mortals and we don’t have what it takes to direct our lives or our paths. ‘Ways that seem right to men may result in spiritual death’. Revelations 22:18,19 “18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.”

II. The Bible teaches us about Worship:

We must worship in spirit and in truth John 4:24 “24God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth." But remember all truth is revealed in God’s word. John 17:17; 16:13 “17Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth.” “13But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.”
Matt 15:9,13 teaches us that living by man’s doctrine, is worshiping God in vain. “9They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.'[1] "13He replied, "Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be pulled up by the roots.”



III. The Bible teaches us about Love:
Matthew 22:37 “37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.” John 14:15 “15"If you love me, you will obey what I command.” 1 John 5:3 “3This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome.” So basically Love leads us to keep God’s commands. What does this have to do with masturbation? When we follow human doctrines, are we showing love for God or for man? ‘Does a man show love for his wife if he gets her a power tool for her birthday because he wants it? When people defend their practices by saying, “I think it’s beautiful”, or “We’re satisfied with it,” who are they showing love for?

IV. The bible teaches about Faith:
Hebrew 11:6 says that it is impossible to please God without faith. Here are some other verses on faith. 2 Corinthians 5:7 “We live by faith, not by sight.” Romans 10:17 “17Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.” Proverbs 3:5-6 “5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding; 6 in all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make your paths straight.” We show our trust in God by trying to figure things out on our own but by letting God’s voice keep lead us in everything we do, think or say.

THINK: ‘If our practices are not in the Bible, are we placing our trust in God or in man?’

V. And lastly the Bible teaches us about Authority

Galatians 1:8-9 “8Let me be blunt: If one of us--even if an angel from heaven! -Were to preach something other than what we preached originally, let him be cursed. 9I said it once; I'll say it again: If anyone, regardless of reputation or credentials, preaches something other than what you received originally, let him be cursed.”

2 John 1:9 “9Anyone who gets so progressive in his thinking that he walks out on the teaching of Christ, walks out on God. But whoever stays with the teaching, stays faithful to both the Father and the Son.”

Be careful not to make a conclusion on your own and then pass it on as God’s word! ‘Remember that all God’s teachings are found in the Scripture. God did not intend for His word to itemize everything we should or should not practice. Rather, if an act is not included in what He said to do, He expects us to not practice it. We should not ask, “Where does God forbid this act?” but rather “Where does God tell us to do this act?”

Check out these bible verses as well Colossians 3:17; 2:8; 1 Peter 4:11; 1 Corinthians 4:6; 2 Corinthians 10:18; and 1 Timothy 1:3

[Crispie]

wwjd

[sam4u]

>>>>>>.christ_in_me>>>>>>> "When a practice is not included in what God has authorized, should we participate in it or not?" (The following was taken from a website with a list of bible study topics.) 2 Peter 1:3 tell us that the scriptures provide us to do every good work. “His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness.” The question is what about those acts that the bible does not discuss, in this case, masturbation.


******Sam4u reply *******Just because the word masturbation is not in the Bible does not mean that masturbation action is not in the Bible.

Wet dreams, masturbation and sex with a partner are covered in detail in Lev 15: 16-18 and clearly no sin offering is require at all. All three are tread equally.

Today most everyone would conclude that wet dream and sex in marriage are not a sin and a gift from God.

In Lev 15: 16-18 all three are treaded the same, all three would use the same body parts and all three would include sexual fantasies or what other misuse term as sexual lust. All three should be give the same respect today as it was back then accept today they are all declared clean under the age of grace, that we are in today. We have more liberty today then they had in the age of the law, not less.

Lev 15 clearly shows that masturbation, wet dreams, and sex with a partner was not a sin then and under the age of grace it is not a sin today at all.

All three have many sexual fantasies which are normal and healthy and not evil. People totally misuse the word lust and take it out of Bible context and Bible culture. Matt 5:28-30 is greatly misused and taken out of Bible context and from these misuse terms and verse people condemn sexuality and sexual fantasies which is part of God sexual design and God say was very good. If you say it is bad you are going against God sexual design and Saying God design is bad. God said it was very good.

Don't foorce your and others sexual hang ups into the Bible by takeing thing out of context of the Bible culture and times.

There is clear Bible history that the earlier Church Building was connect to the Nude bath houses of the day. Just think if today your local Church building was connected to a nudist resort. All the nude hung up people would have a major fit. Most sport rans were done in the nude in the Bible days. They fished in the nude and did other work in the nude. They did not have all the many cloth we have today. They were lucky to have one or two pair of cloths in the Bible days. Jesus most walked around in his beding sheets with little little or no cloth. Even today the "holy men in India walk around 100% nude to denoun worldly things.

Many people totally take the Bible out of the Bible culture of Bible time and come up with wrong conclusions about nudity and sexuality. They change sex word terms to be wrong definitions that don't even fit in all the Bible. Word like fornication and adultery they don't use the definition the way the Bible used.

They misuse the word lust and take it out of context. Just because you read Bible word you change the means from how it was intented to be used in the Bible day and Bible times.

In Bible days most of lust was related to lust after the sex ferlitity deity god. In Cornith alone there were 1000 to 2000 ferlitity goddless temple prostitutes that would go out and sexually seduce people to come in and have free sex in the temple and they promise as a results they would get good farm crops.

This was the major problem in both the OT and NT of the Bible days. Compare Number 25 1-9 and cor 10:8 Shows clearly a major problem in Both OT and in the NT times.

God designed human nature and say it was very good. We added the unloving sin principal part. We if Adam and Eve never sinned we still would have alot of sex and sexual fantasies and "lusty" sex. Sexual fantasies are very important part of God sexual plan and with out them God sexual design would not even work. Did the animal sin against God? NO. Do the animal have sex? Yes all kinds of ways but they don't have all the man made brainwashing. Maybe that why they don't understand peole we would end up puting a man made shame and guilt trip on all the animal like they do with people. Animal don't have shame and guilt over nudity or sexuality. We are the one all hung up over nudity and sex. God put human in the garden100% nude and said go have lots of sex. God put animals in the garden 100% nude and program them by intinst. God make human nature and said it was good. we added the unloving and unkind part called the sin principal part.

God Way are not our ways. God way was for all people to walk around 100% nude with no shame or guilt. But man ways are to cover up and hide and be ful of shame and guilt. God said his sexual plan is very good. But man way is to bad mouth God's sexual plan and belittle it. God show in Lev 15: 16-18 show that masturbation , wet dreams, and sex with a partner was not a sin at all. But man way are to take every verse they can to condemn them and condemn others for being normal. God plan is to enjoy God sexual design as an enjoyable gift and not be ful of man made shame and guilt trip.

[sam4u]

wwjd
The problem with that is people forget that Jesus lived under tha law in the age of the law. A lot of word Jesus say was about the Law to the Pharisees that were watching him to try to trap him.

We live under the age of Grace with a lot more liberty then Jesus had. So if you only read Jesus word with out knowing who he is talking to and why you may become very legalistic and live like you are under the Law, which we are not.

Most of the sermon on the mount was to pharisee under the Law. (not to Christans) Matt 5:28-30 was to Pharrisees who were under the law trying to worh there way to heaven. When Jesus talked about the law most times it was to Pharisees, not intend for Christian under the age of grace.

[Rebirth In Flames]

So what your saying is that we can pick and choose what we want to follow in the bible since we're saved by grace and it really doesn't matter anymore? Blasphemy. It's a lot easier that way, I'll hand that to you.. less sacrifice.. I know a lot of liberal-Christians who would agree with you.

[sam4u]

>>>>>>>christ_in_me said >>>>>>>>

Isaiah 55:8,9 8 "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,"

declares the LORD. 9 "As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.”



*******Sam4u reply****** God way was to command Isaiah to walk around 100% nude for 3 whole years. Man ways is to pass laws that put people in Jail if they walking around nude. Gods Ways are not our ways. God way was for all people to walk around 100% nude with no shame or guilt. But man ways are to cover up and hide and be full of shame and guilt.



God said his sexual plan is very good. But man way is to bad mouth God's sexual plan and belittle it as if it is not holy. God show in Lev 15: 16-18 that masturbation , wet dreams, and sex with a partner was not a sin at all. But man ways are to take every verse they can out of context to condemn themselves and condemn others for being sexually normal. Gods plan is to enjoy Gods sexual design as an enjoyable gift with 50 health benefits and not be ful of man made shame and guilt trip.









>>>>>>>christ_in_me said >>>>>>>>Jeremiah 10:23

23 I know, O LORD, that a man's life is not his own;

it is not for man to direct his steps.

*******Sam4u reply****** God designed human nature and say it was very good. Gen 1:31 We added the unloving sin principal part. "the whole law is fulfil in love other as you love yourselves. if Adam and Eve never sinned, we still would have alot of sex and sexual fantasies and "lusty" sex. Sexual fantasies are very important part of God sexual plan and with out them God sexual design would not even work.

Did the animal sin against God? NO. Do the animal have sex? Yes all kinds of ways but they don't have all the man made brainwashing of shame and guilt. Maybe thats why they don't understand people languages, we would end up puting a man made shame and guilt trip on all the animal like they do with people.

Animal don't have shame and guilt over nudity or sexuality. We are the ones all hung up over nudity and sex. God put human in the garden100% nude and said go have lots of sex. God put animals in the garden 100% nude and program them by intinst. God make human nature and said it was good. we added the unloving and unkind part called the sin principal part. God's design human nature part is still very good.





>>>>>>>christ_in_me said >>>>>>>> ‘Ways that seem right to men may result in spiritual death’.

*******Sam4u reply******God designed sexuality and said it is very good. Men condemn sexuality as being to lusty and unholy for them. The put down Gods sexual design. If you avoid sex and masturbation that could lead to cancer and death.



>>>>>>>christ_in_me said >>>>>>>>

Revelations 22:18,19 “18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.”

*******Sam4u reply******Lev 15: 16-18 clearly show masturbation, wet dreams, and sex with a partner is not a sin at all. And not one person in all the Bible using terms like in Lev 15: 16-18 said that they were a sin in any way.

But anti-masturbation add words to the Bible by tasking it out of context of Bible days. This is adding to the Bible say something is a sin when it is not.









>>>>>>>christ_in_me said >>>>>>>>We must worship in spirit and in truth John 4:24 “24God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth." But remember all truth is revealed in God’s word.



*******Sam4u reply******Truth is that no where in the Bible masturbation is a sin. No where. Many medical Lies have been exposed about masturbation. Many verses taken out of the Bible and become a lie from its misuse.





>>>>>>>christ_in_me said >>>>>>>> John 17:17; 16:13 “17Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth.” “13But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.”

*******Sam4u reply******masturbation is a man made braining sin of shame and guilt. Doctrine of men only. Titus 1:15 unto the pure all thing are pure… Paul said all thing are lawful to me.



>>>>>>>christ_in_me said >>>>>>>> Matt 15:9,13 teaches us that living by man’s doctrine, is worshiping God in vain. “9They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.'[1] "13He replied, "Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be pulled up by the roots.”

*******Sam4u reply******anti-masturbation is a man made guilt trip only. No where in the Bible does it say it is a sin. Nowhere. It is a Doctrine of man.





>>>>>>>christ_in_me said >>>>>>>>III. The Bible teaches us about Love:

Matthew 22:37 “37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.” John 14:15 “15"If you love me, you will obey what I command.” 1 John 5:3 “3This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome.” So basically Love leads us to keep God’s commands. What does this have to do with masturbation? When we follow human doctrines, are we showing love for God or for man? ‘Does a man show love for his wife if he gets her a power tool for her birthday because he wants it? When people defend their practices by saying, “I think it’s beautiful”, or “We’re satisfied with it,” who are they showing love for?

*******Sam4u reply******Love others as you love yourselves. Masturbation is loving yourself wishing you could loving another and loving God for giving wonderful fun gifts of sexuality for all to ejoy and get 50 health benefits.



The opposite is hating yourself and beating yourselves up every time you masturbate, hating God for giving you a sex drive and praise satan for defeating you and hating God for not giving you victory over masturbation. Then go around hating and condemning others for enjoying Gods gift of masturbation to them and to enjoy the 50 health benefits. This is the opposite of love.





>>>>>>>christ_in_me said >>>>>>>> We show our trust in God by trying to figure things out on our own but by letting God’s voice keep lead us in everything we do, think or say.

*******Sam4u reply******Satan in Mat 4 tempted Jesus by taking verses out of context. Anti-masturbation take a lot of verses out of context and ignor Bible culture and Bible history to understand correct context. Just like Satan did in Mat 4 trying to mislead Jesus by using the Bible verses out of context and tread Jesus like he is lacking faith. But in Matt 4 there was not sexual temptation at all. Why not? Jesus was a male like others?



>>>>>>>christ_in_me said >>>>>>>>THINK: ‘If our practices are not in the Bible, are we placing our trust in God or in man?’



*******Sam4u reply******Acts 10 God told Peter don’t call unclean that God called clean. Or don’t call a sin that God did not say it was a sin. No where in the Bible masturbation is sin. NO where.







>>>>>>>christ_in_me said >>>>>>>>Galatians 1:8-9 “8Let me be blunt: If one of us--even if an angel from heaven! -Were to preach something other than what we preached originally, let him be cursed. 9I said it once; I'll say it again: If anyone, regardless of reputation or credentials, preaches something other than what you received originally, let him be cursed.”

*******Sam4u reply******Gal was about Christian liberty and some of the Christain Jews wanted to apply some of the legalistic law things back up on them. Paul say all things are lawful to me.

Anti-masturbation want to say masturbation is a sin when not even the Law called it a sin. And the NT not a sin neither. We have more liberty in the age of grace not less. Anti-masturbation by misusing verse and take them out of context want to condemn all for been sexually normal about something that was not even a sin in the OT.



>>>>>>>christ_in_me said >>>>>>>>Be careful not to make a conclusion on your own and then pass it on as God’s word! ‘Remember that all God’s teachings are found in the Scripture. God did not intend for His word to itemize everything we should or should not practice.



*******Sam4u reply******God did itemize almost every thing in Lev and masturbation is in Lev 15: 16-18 and it is not a sin at all.





>>>>>>>christ_in_me said >>>>>>>>

Rather, if an act is not included in what He said to do, He expects us to not practice it. We should not ask, “Where does God forbid this act?” but rather “Where does God tell us to do this act?”

*******Sam4u reply******God said love others as you love yourself. If you don’t understand your solo sexuality, how are you going to understand anyone elses.? If you beat yourself up over your solo sexuality , how are you going to treat others? If you condemn your sexuality you will end up condemning others.

[Walker-Texas-Ranger]

Jackin off is for sure a sin. Just think of the character of God. Do you really think that He would, "ok" something so dirty and so selfish? No way.

[Ceris]

I have posted in this thread before with my own spriptural support for why I view masturbation leads to sin. If you wish to find it, you can always run a search of this thread. However, I feel there are some things that have been said that need to be refuted. I do not to attack any member, but to refute what I believe to be a wrong interpretation.

God said his sexual plan is very good.
I do not know the scripture for this, but yes, his sexual plan is good.
but man way is to bad mouth God's sexual plan and belittle it as if it is not holy.
Yes, this is sometimes true.
God show in Lev 15: 16-18 that masturbation , wet dreams, and sex with a partner was not a sin at all.[/QUOTE}

Leviticus 15:16-18 is as follows (NIV): "When a man has an emission of semen, he must bathe his whole body with water, and he will be unclean till evening. Any clothing or leather that has semen on it must be washed with water, and it will be unclean till evening. When a man lies with a woman and there is an emission of semen, both must bathe with water, and they will be unclean till evening."

This merely states what a man must do when he emits semen. This verse alone neither condems not commends masturbation or pre-marital or extra-marital sex. To claim that it says that sex with a partner (sex outside of marriage) is not a sin, to claim this is false.

[QUOTE=sam4u]But man ways are to take every verse they can out of context to condemn themselves and condemn others for being sexually normal. Gods plan is to enjoy Gods sexual design as an enjoyable gift with 50 health benefits and not be ful of man made shame and guilt trip.

What do you mean by normal? If you mean what is considered normal by the world, well then yes that is wrong. Lying, stealing, cheating, drunkeness: all these things are considered normal by the world, but we are told not to commit these sins. (If you believe that any of these are not sins, well, that's another topic). Yes men do take verses out of context and yes men can use verses of the Bible to "support" their wrongful agendas. One such example is using the Bible to try and "support" hate against others. And what are these 50 health benefits? I keep hearing about these supposed 50 health benefits that masturbation provides, but I have never seen a single example given.

God designed human nature and say it was very good. Gen 1:31

According to Genesis 1:31, "God saw all that he had made and it was very good." This is true. But this was on the 6th day, before the fall of Adam, before man sinned.

We added the unloving sin principal part. "the whole law is fulfil in love other as you love yourselves.

Wrong. The whole law is not fufilled in love others as you love yourself. The real verse is this: One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question:
"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments." (Matthew 22:35-40)

The greatest commandment is Love the Lord your God with all your heart and all you soul and all you mind. Remember, Christ said "If you love me, you will obey what I command." (John 14:15).

Did the animal sin against God? NO. Do the animal have sex? Yes all kinds of ways but they don't have all the man made brainwashing of shame and guilt. Maybe thats why they don't understand people languages, we would end up puting a man made shame and guilt trip on all the animal like they do with people.

Animal don't have shame and guilt over nudity or sexuality. We are the ones all hung up over nudity and sex.
Men are NOT animals. There is no point in comparing men to animals when it comes to sin and God's commandments.

God put human in the garden100% nude and said go have lots of sex.

No. This is not what God said. Read Genesis 2:15-17: The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."

God put animals in the garden 100% nude and program them by intinst.

Yes, this is true. And animals are still nude to this day. However, once again, men are NOT animals.

God make human nature and said it was good. we added the unloving and unkind part called the sin principal part. God's design human nature part is still very good.

God created Adam and Eve on the 6th day and saw that what he made was good. What God did not create is sin. Sin is disobeying God. Adam and Eve sinned when they ate the fruit by doing what God told them not to do. I have no idea what you mean by the sin pricipal part. How God designed humans is good. However, sin has corrupted human nature.

God designed sexuality and said it is very good. Men condemn sexuality as being to lusty and unholy for them. The put down Gods sexual design.

What man condems as being unholy and sinful is lust. You can research this on your own, but not once does the Bible ever talk about lust is a good way.

Lev 15: 16-18 clearly show masturbation, wet dreams, and sex with a partner is not a sin at all. And not one person in all the Bible using terms like in Lev 15: 16-18 said that they were a sin in any way.

I already covered this.

But anti-masturbation add words to the Bible by tasking it out of context of Bible days. This is adding to the Bible say something is a sin when it is not.

Colossians 3:5 says "Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry." How is this taking it out of context of Bible days?

Truth is that no where in the Bible masturbation is a sin. No where.

True. Nowhere does it say in the Bible "masturbation is a sin". But it also nowhere says "masturbation".

Many medical Lies have been exposed about masturbation. Many verses taken out of the Bible and become a lie from its misuse

Yes, many medical lies have been exposed about masturbation, such as "not masturbating will lead to death".

masturbation is a man made braining sin of shame and guilt. Doctrine of men only. Titus 1:15 unto the pure all thing are pure… Paul said all thing are lawful to me

Titus 1:15 says: To the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure. In fact, both their minds and consciences are corrupted. However, Romans 3:23 says for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God If one has fallen short of the glory of God, then one is not pure.

anti-masturbation is a man made guilt trip only. No where in the Bible does it say it is a sin. Nowhere. It is a Doctrine of man.

I've gone over this already.

Love others as you love yourselves. Masturbation is loving yourself wishing you could loving another and loving God for giving wonderful fun gifts of sexuality for all to ejoy and get 50 health benefits.

Love others as you love yourself. This is true. Masturbation is not loving yourself wishing you could love another. Masturbation is sexually pleasing yourself to sastify your own lust. Let me be perfectly clear on this: LUST IS NOT LOVE. And once again, what is this 50 health benefits?

The opposite is hating yourself and beating yourselves up every time you masturbate, hating God for giving you a sex drive and praise satan for defeating you and hating God for not giving you victory over masturbation. Then go around hating and condemning others for enjoying Gods gift of masturbation to them and to enjoy the 50 health benefits. This is the opposite of love.

Ok, I am really confused by whay you are trying to say in that run on sentence. I'll answer your 2nd sentence however. The opposite of love is hate. Pure and simple.

Satan in Mat 4 tempted Jesus by taking verses out of context. Anti-masturbation take a lot of verses out of context and ignor Bible culture and Bible history to understand correct context. Just like Satan did in Mat 4 trying to mislead Jesus by using the Bible verses out of context and tread Jesus like he is lacking faith. But in Matt 4 there was not sexual temptation at all. Why not? Jesus was a male like others?

Satan tempted Jesus in Matthew 4 with power, not taking verses out of context. You cannot tempt someone with verses out of context. I mean how does that sound? "I was tempted by out of context verses". As for why Satan didn't try to tempt Christ with sexual temptations, I have no idea. Nor do I get your point in bringing that question up.

Acts 10 God told Peter don’t call unclean that God called clean. Or don’t call a sin that God did not say it was a sin. No where in the Bible masturbation is sin. NO where.

The part you are referring to is this: It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles of the earth and birds of the air. Then a voice told him, "Get up, Peter. Kill and eat."
"Surely not, Lord!" Peter replied. "I have never eaten anything impure or unclean."
The voice spoke to him a second time, "Do not call anything impure that God has made clean." (Acts 10:12-15). Two things here: 1) What Peter is calling unclean is the animals. This had to do with the OT laws of clean and unlcean animals. 2)God has never called masturbation clean, so this point is moot.

Gal was about Christian liberty and some of the Christain Jews wanted to apply some of the legalistic law things back up on them. Paul say all things are lawful to me.

That still doesn't change what is said in Galatians 1:8-9. As for Paul saying all things are lawful, that is impossible. God has a written law. One such example is this: Do not murder. If all things were lawful, then it would be lawful to commit murder. But God in his law says, Do not murder. You see? The idea that all things are lawful is an impossiblity.

Anti-masturbation want to say masturbation is a sin when not even the Law called it a sin. And the NT not a sin neither. We have more liberty in the age of grace not less. Anti-masturbation by misusing verse and take them out of context want to condemn all for been sexually normal about something that was not even a sin in the OT.

Allright. First of all, I agree that masturbation is never called a sin in the Bible. In fact, masturbation is never mentioned in the bible. However, we are told to put our lust to death (look at the passage I provided earlier). You say we have more liberty in the age of grace. This doesn't make it right for us to sin. As for that last sentece, you've said that already and so I've already gone over it.

God did itemize almost every thing in Lev and masturbation is in Lev 15: 16-18 and it is not a sin at all

I've gone over this before. Leviticus 15:16-18 does not mention masturbation. It talks about when a man has an emmission of semen. That is it. One can have an emmision of semen without masturbating. It's called sexual intercourse.

God said love others as you love yourself. If you don’t understand your solo sexuality, how are you going to understand anyone elses.? If you beat yourself up over your solo sexuality , how are you going to treat others? If you condemn your sexuality you will end up condemning others.

I have no idea of what you're getting at here.

Once again, this is mean as a loving rebuke, not an attack.

God Bless,
Ceris

[sam4u]

****** Sam4u said quota******

God show in Lev 15: 16-18 that masturbation , wet dreams, and sex with a partner was not a sin at all.[/QUOTE}

>>>>>>Ceris reply>>>>>>

Leviticus 15:16-18 is as follows (NIV): "When a man has an emission of semen, he must bathe his whole body with water, and he will be unclean till evening. Any clothing or leather that has semen on it must be washed with water, and it will be unclean till evening. When a man lies with a woman and there is an emission of semen, both must bathe with water, and they will be unclean till evening."



This merely states what a man must do when he emits semen. This verse alone neither condems not commends masturbation ……



*******Sam4u reply ******Lev 15: 16-18 talks about solo emission of semen and partner sex emission of semen. This is a simple description of solo masturbation and solo wet dream by the term we use today. (survey show only 7% males have wet dreams and 94% masturbate) To be consistence with the context of the text, sex with a partner, would be partner sex and the other is solo sex, which would include masturbation and wet dreams. All three would include sexual fantasies and sexual desire.







>>>>>>Ceris said>>>>>>And what are these 50 health benefits? I keep hearing about these supposed 50 health benefits that masturbation provides, but I have never seen a single example given.



*********Sam4u reply ********Do a yahoo.com web site search on 50 health Advantages benefits, of masturbation.

















>>>>>>Ceris said>>>>>>According to Genesis 1:31, "God saw all that he had made and it was very good." This is true. But this was on the 6th day, before the fall of Adam, before man sinned.

*********Sam4u reply ********God make human nature, which included our sexuality, sex drives, include sexual fantasies which are a very important part of sexuality , with out it God sexual plan would not even work. God said it was very good. We add the sin principal part of being unloving, unkind, not loving God, not loving others as we love ourselves.





******* Quote: Originally Posted by: sam4u*******

We added the unloving sin principal part. "the whole law is fulfil in love other as you love yourselves.











>>>>>>Ceris said>>>>>>Wrong. The whole law is not fufilled in love others as you love yourself.



*********Sam4u reply *******

Ro 13:8

Pay all your debts, except the debt of love for others. You can never finish paying that! If you love your neighbor, you will fulfill all the requirements of God's law.



Ga 5:14

For the whole law can be summed up in this one command: "Love your neighbor as yourself."



Jas 2:12

So whenever you speak, or whatever you do, remember that you will be judged by the law of love, the law that set you free.



Ro 13:9

For the commandments against adultery and murder and stealing and coveting – and any other commandment – are all summed up in this one commandment: "Love your neighbor as yourself."



Ro 13:10

Love does no wrong to anyone, so love satisfies all of God's requirements.

2Jo 1:6

Love means doing what God has commanded us, and he has commanded us to love one another, just as you heard from the beginning.



Jas 2:8

Yes indeed, it is good when you truly obey our Lord's royal command found in the Scriptures: "Love your neighbor as yourself."

12 So whenever you speak, or whatever you do, remember that you will be judged by the law of love, the law that set you free.



Eph 5:28

In the same way, husbands ought to love their wives as they love their own bodies. For a man is actually loving himself when he loves his wife.



Eph 5:33

So again I say, each man must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.



1Ti 1:5

The purpose of my instruction is that all the Christians there would be filled with love that comes from a pure heart, a clear conscience, and sincere faith.







James 2:8-13

8 Yes indeed, it is good when you truly obey our Lord's royal command found in the Scriptures: "Love your neighbor as yourself." F7



9 But if you pay special attention to the rich, you are committing a sin, for you are guilty of breaking that law.



10 And the person who keeps all of the laws except one is as guilty as the person who has broken all of God's laws.



11 For the same God who said, "Do not commit adultery," also said, "Do not murder." F8 So if you murder someone, you have broken the entire law, even if you do not commit adultery.



12 So whenever you speak, or whatever you do, remember that you will be judged by the law of love, the law that set you free.



13 For there will be no mercy for you if you have not been merciful to others. But if you have been merciful, then God's mercy toward you will win out over his judgment against you.



1Pe 4:8

Most important of all, continue to show deep love for each other, for love covers a multitude of sins.



1Jo 2:7

Dear friends, I am not writing a new commandment, for it is an old one you have always had, right from the beginning. This commandment – to love one another – is the same message you heard before.



1Jo 3:10

So now we can tell who are children of God and who are children of the Devil. Anyone who does not obey God's commands and does not love other Christians does not belong to God.



1Jo 3:11

This is the message we have heard from the beginning: We should love one another.



1Jo 3:23

And this is his commandment: We must believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as he commanded us.

[sam4u]

Quote:

Originally Posted by: sam4u

Did the animal sin against God? NO. Do the animal have sex? Yes all kinds of ways but they don't have all the man made brainwashing of shame and guilt. Maybe thats why they don't understand people languages, we would end up puting a man made shame and guilt trip on all the animal like they do with people.



Animal don't have shame and guilt over nudity or sexuality. We are the ones all hung up over nudity and sex.







>>>>>>Ceris said>>>>>>

Men are NOT animals. There is no point in comparing men to animals when it comes to sin and God's commandments.



*********Sam4u reply *******I never said men are animals, but God created animals and said it was very good and animals did not sin but we did. Animal do as God programmed them to do, we do not. God designed animal sexuality and said it was good. God created human sexuality and said it was good also. All in Gen 1:31.











Quote:

Originally Posted by: sam4u



God put human in the garden100% nude and said go have lots of sex.



>>>>>>Ceris said>>>>>>

No. This is not what God said. Read Genesis 2:15-17: The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."



******sam4u reply******yes, but get you wife and be 100% and cleave all day long being 100% nude all day and tell me the results. Cleave all day every day.



Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. 25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.



Quote:

Originally Posted by: sam4u



God make human nature and said it was good. we added the unloving and unkind part called the sin principal part. God's design human nature part is still very good.









>>>>>>Ceris said>>>>>>

God created Adam and Eve on the 6th day and saw that what he made was good. What God did not create is sin. Sin is disobeying God. Adam and Eve sinned when they ate the fruit by doing what God told them not to do. I have no idea what you mean by the sin pricipal part. How God designed humans is good. However, sin has corrupted human nature.



******sam4u reply******I never said that God created sin. God created human nature. We added the sin principal part. But part of God human nature design is our sexuality. Human nature is not corrupt only if we add a sin to it. God made human nature and God said it was very good.



When we add sin to it then it becomes bad, but human nature is not bad, that is God’s design. The Bible should use the word sin principal and not the word nature. God made the human nature with is God design. But when the Bible uses the word sin nature, we false think that human nature is evil, but it is not.



Human nature is what God designed and is very good and not evil. Only when we add sin to it does it become evil. We are 100% pure in Christ. Titus 1:15 to the pure all things are pure. We are new creation in Christ similar to Adam and Eve before the sin. We are pure as they were before the sin.











Quote:

Originally Posted by: sam4u









God designed sexuality and said it is very good. Men condemn sexuality as being to lusty and unholy for them. The put down Gods sexual design.









>>>>>>Ceris said>>>>>>

What man condems as being unholy and sinful is lust. You can research this on your own, but not once does the Bible ever talk about lust is a good way.



******sam4u reply******Lust is greatly misunderstood and misused. I have a New Century Version Bible and the Bible in Basic English and can’t not find any lust in them. Can you find any lust in the New Century Version or The Bible in Basic English translations? Those Bible do a better job with lust by leaving it out of the Bible. Masturbation is not a sin. So don’t quota me all the sin verses you can find.









Quote:

Originally Posted by: sam4u

But anti-masturbation add words to the Bible by tasking it out of context of Bible days. This is adding to the Bible say something is a sin when it is not.



>>>>>>Ceris said>>>>>>



Colossians 3:5 says "Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry." How is this taking it out of context of Bible days?



******sam4u reply******This is part of the sin principal. Human nature is good and God designed. Masturbation is not a sin and not part of this list at all.





Quote:

Truth is that no where in the Bible masturbation is a sin. No where.



>>>>>>Ceris said>>>>>> True. Nowhere does it say in the Bible "masturbation is a sin". But it also nowhere says "masturbation".



******sam4u reply******It is in Lev and in clear context, but is not spoken of in the rest of the Bible, because, it was not a sin under the law and it is not a sin now neither. No reason to mention it again.



Here is good news for many people: private solo masturbation, which is sexual stimulation and release by one's self alone, is not a sin. There is no Scriptural basis for calling it a sin. The idea that it is a sin is pure "doctrine of man," not based on the Bible.



Sin is defined as "the transgression of God's law."



"Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is

the transgression of the law." (1 John 3:4 KJV)





But private solo masturbation is not against God's law in any way. Therefore it is not a sin.



Quote sam4u:

Many medical Lies have been exposed about masturbation. Many verses taken out of the Bible and become a lie from its misuse



>>>>>>Ceris said>>>>>>

Yes, many medical lies have been exposed about masturbation, such as "not masturbating will lead to death".



************sam4u reply******I don’t say it will lead to death. But research has shown that regular sex or regular masturbation will greatly help prevent prostrate cancer which kills many people each year.



But there is a long list of medical lie about masturbation in the past that have been expose as lies. As well as all the verses misused and taken out of context.







Quote sam4u :

masturbation is a man made braining sin of shame and guilt. Doctrine of men only. Titus 1:15 unto the pure all thing are pure… Paul said all thing are lawful to me









>>>>>>Ceris said>>>>>>

Titus 1:15 says: To the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and donot believe, nothing is pure. In fact, both their minds and consciences are corrupted.



However, Romans 3:23 says for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God If one has fallen short of the glory of God, then one is not pure.



******sam4u reply******Titus 1:15 already covered that. Believe are 100% pure in Christ. Unbelievers are not. To the pure all things are pure.

[sam4u]

Quote:

Love others as you love yourselves. Masturbation is loving yourself wishing you could loving another and loving God for giving wonderful fun gifts of sexuality for all to ejoy and get 50 health benefits.



>>>>>>Ceris said>>>>>>

Love others as you love yourself. This is true. Masturbation is not loving yourself wishing you could love another. Masturbation is sexually pleasing yourself to sastify your own lust. Let me be perfectly clear on this: LUST IS NOT LOVE. And once again, what is this 50 health benefits?



******sam4u reply******This is your opinion. Many other may disagree. Rom 14:14 said if you declare something to be a sin to you then to you it is a sin for you only. Not a sin in Lev 15 and no where in the Bible is it a sin. But you can make it your personal and pirvate sin. But God told Peter not to do that in Act 10.





Quote sam4u:

The opposite is hating yourself and beating yourselves up every time you masturbate, hating God for giving you a sex drive and praise satan for defeating you and hating God for not giving you victory over masturbation. Then go around hating and condemning others for enjoying Gods gift of masturbation to them and to enjoy the 50 health benefits. This is the opposite of love.



>>>>>>Ceris said>>>>>>

Ok, I am really confused by whay you are trying to say in that run on sentence. I'll answer your 2nd sentence however. The opposite of love is hate. Pure and simple.

******sam4u reply******We agree.





Quote sam4u:

Satan in Mat 4 tempted Jesus by taking verses out of context. Anti-masturbation take a lot of verses out of context and ignor Bible culture and Bible history to understand correct context. Just like Satan did in Mat 4 trying to mislead Jesus by using the Bible verses out of context and tread Jesus like he is lacking faith. But in Matt 4 there was not sexual temptation at all. Why not? Jesus was a male like others?



>>>>>>Ceris said>>>>>>

Satan tempted Jesus in Matthew 4 with power, not taking verses out of context. You cannot tempt someone with verses out of context. I mean how does that sound? "I was tempted by out of context verses". As for why Satan didn't try to tempt Christ with sexual temptations, I have no idea. Nor do I get your point in bringing that question up.



******sam4u reply******Verses are misused and not use in proper context as God intented them to be used.





Quote:

Acts 10 God told Peter don’t call unclean that God called clean. Or don’t call a sin that God did not say it was a sin. No where in the Bible masturbation is sin. NO where.



>>>>>>Ceris said>>>>>>

The part you are referring to is this: It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles of the earth and birds of the air. Then a voice told him, "Get up, Peter. Kill and eat."

"Surely not, Lord!" Peter replied. "I have never eaten anything impure or unclean."

The voice spoke to him a second time, "Do not call anything impure that God has made clean." (Acts 10:12-15).



Two things here: 1) What Peter is calling unclean is the animals. This had to do with the OT laws of clean and unlcean animals. 2)God has never called masturbation clean, so this point is moot.



******sam4u reply******You use inconsistence logic and misunderstand. Paul said all thing are law to me. To the Christian all things are pure. In Act 10 it was not only the animal, even right then Peter wonder what this all meant. Go to eat with gentile was against their law and that was included and most all thing were included. To get from a lot of ceremonal unclean to all thing are pure and all thing are lawful is a big step.



If you were right, then just the things in Lev 15, you would have to ceremonial wash up after you have sex with your wife and a women after her period would have to give a sin offering and many many other thing in Lev you would have to do. All the things in Lev 15:16-18 are clean and not unclean. God told Peter not to call them unclean and you are doing the same thing Peter did.

Quote sam4u:

Gal was about Christian liberty and some of the Christain Jews wanted to apply some of the legalistic law things back up on them. Paul say all things are lawful to me.



>>>>>>Ceris said>>>>>>

That still doesn't change what is said in Galatians 1:8-9. As for Paul saying all things are lawful, that is impossible. God has a written law. One such example is this: Do not murder. If all things were lawful, then it would be lawful to commit murder. But God in his law says, Do not murder. You see? The idea that all things are lawful is an impossiblity.



******sam4u reply******Don’t take it out context, the context is we are under the law of love. We should not violate the law of love.



Ro 13:8

Pay all your debts, except the debt of love for others. You can never finish paying that! If you love your neighbor, you will fulfill all the requirements of God's law.



Ga 5:14

For the whole law can be summed up in this one command: "Love your neighbor as yourself."



Jas 2:12

So whenever you speak, or whatever you do, remember that you will be judged by the law of love, the law that set you free.



Ro 13:9

For the commandments against adultery and murder and stealing and coveting – and any other commandment – are all summed up in this one commandment: "Love your neighbor as yourself."



Ro 13:10

Love does no wrong to anyone, so love satisfies all of God's requirements.

2Jo 1:6

Love means doing what God has commanded us, and he has commanded us to love one another, just as you heard from the beginning.



Jas 2:8

Yes indeed, it is good when you truly obey our Lord's royal command found in the Scriptures: "Love your neighbor as yourself."

12 So whenever you speak, or whatever you do, remember that you will be judged by the law of love, the law that set you free.



Quote sam4u:



Anti-masturbation want to say masturbation is a sin when not even the Law called it a sin. And the NT not a sin neither. We have more liberty in the age of grace not less. Anti-masturbation by misusing verse and take them out of context want to condemn all for been sexually normal about something that was not even a sin in the OT.



>>>>>>Ceris said>>>>>>

Allright. First of all, I agree that masturbation is never called a sin in the Bible. In fact, masturbation is never mentioned in the bible. However, we are told to put our lust to death (look at the passage I provided earlier). You say we have more liberty in the age of grace. This doesn't make it right for us to sin. As for that last sentece, you've said that already and so I've already gone over it.



******sam4u reply******Action is mention in Lev 15. Masturbation is not a sin. Lust is greatly misused and misunderstood and taken out of Bible culture and Bible times. Study lust in the New Century Version and in the Bible in Basic English versions.



Quote:

God did itemize almost every thing in Lev and masturbation is in Lev 15: 16-18 and it is not a sin at all



>>>>>>Ceris said>>>>>>

I've gone over this before. Leviticus 15:16-18 does not mention masturbation. It talks about when a man has an emmission of semen. That is it. One can have an emmision of semen without masturbating. It's called sexual intercourse.



******sam4u reply******Solo sex is in 16 and partner sex is in 18. It covers both sides, solo and partner sex. Both are not a sin.



Quote sam4u:

God said love others as you love yourself. If you don’t understand your solo sexuality, how are you going to understand anyone elses.? If you beat yourself up over your solo sexuality , how are you going to treat others? If you condemn your sexuality you will end up condemning others.



I have no idea of what you're getting at here.



******sam4u reply******People carry their sexual hang ups into marriage both men and women. First we have solo sex then maybe later on find a partner.

[anastasios]

Friends,

It's hard for me to follow all of these cut and pasted quotes from the Holy Bible with editing and insertions in different colors so I am just going to put in a quick philsophical point.

Masturbation is a selfish act, whereas God-given sex inside a marriage is a loving act of self-giving to another person who reciprocates. Another point to consider is the idea of fasting, which is lost on many Christians today. We fast from food but St Paul also speaks of fasting from sexual relations--although he instructs the couple not to forego relations for too long lest it lead to tribulation.

Many of the saints of the Church had a problem dealing with lust and masturbation, especially the celibate ones. The practice of masturbation will lead to lust even if theoretically it is entered into as a way to relieve stress or "the urge" because you are awakening sexual energy which is easily influenced by the demons (as is the urge to eat). Sexual energy is an animal impulse which can only be used in the context of a marriage and even there in moderation. If it is done so, it is blessed by God and leads to a higher purpose. If it is abused, it leads one to lower himself to debased thoughts.

We must always be on guard to keep our mind from entertaining sin--and masturabation is opening the door. I would think it especially freaky to masturbate while my wife were laying next to me--it would seem to separate us rather than unite us.

As a guy, I can say that if one just goes to bed and sleeps the urge will go away. If we do not learn to control our urges and passions we cannot grow in sanctification and progress towards salvation.

Anastasios

[sam4u]

Masturbation is a selfish act, It is no more selfish then eat food solo or going to the toilet solo or doing a lot of other things solo. It only a problem if you use it to avoid meeting your spouse sexual needs.
whereas God-given sex inside a marriage is a loving act of self-giving to another person who reciprocates. Lev 15: 16-18 included both solo sex and partner sex either was a sin. Only a small percentage are happily married and many are single, handicap, divorse, disable, etc Solo sex help meet some of their sexual needs as a gift from God with 50 health benefits.

Many of the saints of the Church had a problem dealing with lust and masturbation, especially the celibate ones. God made it clear in Gen that it was not good for man to be alone. God gave him a help meet. Solo sex helps when we are solo with out a partner. Lust is greatly misused and misunderstood in the Bible. A lot of it was connected to the lust of sin or ferlitity deity god that had 1000 to 2000 temple prostitutes that were youg and beautiful and would seduce people to come join them in free sex and their god would promise them good farm crops. Compare Number 25: 1-9 to 1Cor 10:8 a major problem in both the OT and the NT. The New Century version and The Bible in Basic England don't use the word lust at all. Song of Solomon is very sexy book with a lot of "lusty" ideals and that is not bad. It not bad in SOS and not bad today.


The practice of masturbation will lead to lust even if theoretically it is entered into as a way to relieve stress or "the urge" because you are awakening sexual energy which is easily influenced by the demons (as is the urge to eat). God created and designed our sexuality not the devil or demons. The sex urge came from built up of God design sex hormones that God created and gave us.

Sexual energy is an animal impulse which can only be used in the context of a marriage and even there in moderation. If it is done so, it is blessed by God and leads to a higher purpose. If it is abused, it leads one to lower himself to debased thoughts. Lev 15: 16-18 clearly talk about both solo sex and partner sex both are treated equal and both not a sin. Both have similar thoughts. Neither is abusive. Both are normal and very healthy and both are a gift from God.

We must always be on guard to keep our mind from entertaining sin--and masturabation is opening the door. I would think it especially freaky to masturbate while my wife were laying next to me--it would seem to separate us rather than unite us. If your wife is there then she should joint in or if she does not want to then she should encourage you to masturbate and be your cheer leader and joint in your happiness. But we have been brainwashed the shame and guilt these lies have been passed down for generations. The lies have been expose and the verses taken out of context have been exposed but the brainwashing remains.

As a guy, I can say that if one just goes to bed and sleeps the urge will go away. If we do not learn to control our urges and passions we cannot grow in sanctification and progress towards salvation.solo sex is not a sin. They say this by a man made assumption that masturbation is a sin with nothing in the whole Bible to back that up at all. Wrong asumption.

We already have our salvation. Jesus already has died on the cross and has already saved us by putting our trust alone in Jesus to be our saviour. It is a done deal. We are pure in Christ.

You don't have a problem with masturbation. You have a problem with the man made brainwashing over many years of lies. Masturbation is not a sin and is a gift from God for you to enjoy the 50 health benefits and give God the praise for giving wonderful enjoyable gift to all people to enjoy. Enjoy your sexuality and give God all the praise and Glory. Stop beating yourselves up over the man made shame and guilt trip based on a lot of old lies and misuse Bible verses taken out of context of Bible culture and Bible times.

[bravado]

I've decided that until I am willing to fight off my old habits and not sin as much as before, that I am making no effort for God. If every thought is used against me on judgement day, then I don't know what to do anymore -- I feel hopeless to the last.

But either way, if you know masterbation is wrong -- and it is -- IT JUST IS -- then stop. Make the effort for God. I am trying and will stop.

Coming from a single lonely guy, this is intensely difficult with such drives -- as it is what drives a man. However, showing God some fortitude and resisting this evil is what God has asked of us. Jesus Christ went through his temptations as do we. I will try to be strong like he to the best of my abilities.

It must be nice to be married and be able to share each other 'legally' within God's Law. For the rest of us, we suffer as Jesus did. Doesn't seem fair, but it's the way it is.

I encourage everyone to do the same, especially if you believe it's a sin.

Lord, may we inherit your mercy and grace as we grant this to others to the best of our ability. Help us to purify our thoughts and find strength and discipline from you in ourselves.

[anastasios]

It is no more selfish then eat food solo or going to the toilet solo or doing a lot of other things solo. It only a problem if you use it to avoid meeting your spouse sexual needs.
Eating for pleasure can be a sin. Going to the bathroom serves nothing but a purely biological function. It is a problem for anyone because it creates a fantasy, invites in lust, and allows the mind to focus on creation rather than the Creator.

Lev 15: 16-18 included both solo sex and partner sex either was a sin. Only a small percentage are happily married and many are single, handicap, divorse, disable, etc Solo sex help meet some of their sexual needs as a gift from God with 50 health benefits.
I am not sure what you mean. First of all, Leviticus is the Jewish ceremonial law so it does not automatically apply to Christians now anyway. Secondly, it is talking about cleanliness which is different from the idea of sinfullness. It is not even talking about masturbation anyway--it is talking about noctural emissions. The point of that passage is that in Jewish times if you had sex or a nocturnal emission you could not participate in the liturgical life of the Jewish religion because you were unclean.

God made it clear in Gen that it was not good for man to be alone. God gave him a help meet. Solo sex helps when we are solo with out a partner. Lust is greatly misused and misunderstood in the Bible.
I am sorry my friend but your thoughts fly in the face of the established tradition of the Christian Church. God did wanted man to not be alone--this had nothing to do with sex, which is clear because Adam and Eve did not have sex until after they had fallen.

A lot of it was connected to the lust of sin or ferlitity deity god that had 1000 to 2000 temple prostitutes that were youg and beautiful and would seduce people to come join them in free sex and their god would promise them good farm crops. Compare Number 25: 1-9 to 1Cor 10:8 a major problem in both the OT and the NT. The New Century version and The Bible in Basic England don't use the word lust at all. Song of Solomon is very sexy book with a lot of "lusty" ideals and that is not bad. It not bad in SOS and not bad today.
SOS is a metaphor for loving God.


God created and designed our sexuality not the devil or demons. The sex urge came from built up of God design sex hormones that God created and gave us.
The sexual urge is natural but can be excited by demons because the world is fallen now and not in the original state of blessedness devised by the Lord.

Lev 15: 16-18 clearly talk about both solo sex and partner sex both are treated equal and both not a sin. Both have similar thoughts. Neither is abusive. Both are normal and very healthy and both are a gift from God.
Actually I read that verse and it says nothing of the sort. It says that if a nocturnal emission or sex occurs the man or man and woman must wash and remain unclean for the day. It has to do with Jewish ceremonial law, not notions of sinfullness.

If your wife is there then she should joint in or if she does not want to then she should encourage you to masturbate and be your cheer leader and joint in your happiness. But we have been brainwashed the shame and guilt these lies have been passed down for generations. The lies have been expose and the verses taken out of context have been exposed but the brainwashing remains.
The Church, which is the pillar and foundation of truth, and the Body of Christ, can rule on the sinfulness of actions not mentioned specifically in the Bible, just as it had the authority to rule on the doctrine of the Trinity. All major Christian confessions teach that masturbation is a sin.

It has nothing to do with shame and guilt. Masturbation causes problems in people, it causes them to lose self control, it is a sin that always wants more and more. The Church of Christ ruled against this practice and other sexual practices outside of a monogamous marriage because in its wisdom the people of God realized the harm that comes to a soul from masturbation and lust.

solo sex is not a sin. They say this by a man made assumption that masturbation is a sin with nothing in the whole Bible to back that up at all. Wrong asumption.
Since you are a Protestant I cannot adequately argue with you on this point because your main assumption is that something must be found in scripture to be true. I, being an Orthodox Christian, believe that the Bible is interpreted through the living community of Christ's body, not by individuals, so it is therefore not necessary that something be explicitly taught in Scripture. That being said, I believe that even based on implictly reading scriptural injunctions against dirty minds and immorality, that one can ascertain that masturbation is included in the condemnation.

We already have our salvation. Jesus already has died on the cross and has already saved us by putting our trust alone in Jesus to be our saviour. It is a done deal. We are pure in Christ.
Whether or not one believes in eternal security (I don't) is irrelevant: Christ calls us to deny ourselves and progress in holiness. You can't do that while masturbating.

You don't have a problem with masturbation. You have a problem with the man made brainwashing over many years of lies. Masturbation is not a sin and is a gift from God for you to enjoy the 50 health benefits and give God the praise for giving wonderful enjoyable gift to all people to enjoy. Enjoy your sexuality and give God all the praise and Glory. Stop beating yourselves up over the man made shame and guilt trip based on a lot of old lies and misuse Bible verses taken out of context of Bible culture and Bible times.
The same culture and context of Bible times still exists in the Church of Christ.

Anastasios

[anastasios]

Dear Bravado,

If you are truly trying to overcome masturbation and cannot, may I please suggest you try out Sexaholics Anonymous. It is a group like Alchoholics Anonymous that can give you great help. I don't have 15 posts yet so I can't post a link, so (taking out the spaces) type www . sa. org .

God bless us all in our struggles.

Anastasios

[anastasios]

"Anti-,masturbate is a Islam, cultic teaching"

Apart from my longer response, I would like to just point out that that statement is offensive to me as an Orthodox Christian, because our Church, the Catholic Church, and the Lutheran Church in which I grew up all teach that masturbation is a sin, and the Church of Christ taught this doctrine even before the coming of Islam. If you want to say you disagree, please do as you have freedom to do so, but please do not say it is "Islamic" or "cultic" when the vast majority of Christians are in agreement against this practice.

Anastasios

[Bomber2k]

I don't find a problem with masturbation in marriage - unless it was being used alongside porn or something.

If I was really tired, and didn't have any energy, I'd be more than happy for my husband to masturbate to relieve his urge, rather than lying there unable to sleep and getting irritated at me for not joining in. If he was doing it whilst kissing me or holding me - even better! I may even join in! I'd certainly hope that if I was 'frisky' and he just wasn't awake enough to participate (or sick or something) he'd let me!

If I was away - same thing. This also bring up the issues of sexy photos of ourselves and phone sex, both of which, if kept between you too (and completely private) I have no problem with.

I guess that so long it was me he was imagining touching him, I would have no problem. If I was aware of a porn addiction, however, I would probably not be so keen for him to do it. I would hold the same guidelines to myself - I would only think about doing it, if I knew my thoughts would only be of him.

Just my opinion,

Sasch
Thanks, you gave me some great tips for when I am married :)

My response to the topic:

The only way to keep your mind pure is to read God's word.

I'm sure their are a lot of young girls and boys reading this, but I have to assure you that masturbation is not a sin... what would you be ashamed of? - yourself? How can you be ashamed of yourself? It was only in the Garden of Eden where man and woman became ashamed after eating from the forbidden tree!.

There is no shame that you should accept with your own body when you are in private. Accept what God has given to you!

If you don't masturbate (100% of guys do, im not sure about girls because i am not one), it will lead to many more immoral thoughts. Face it, you are still a sinner whether you do or dont... but you will probably sin more if you don't masturbate.

Sexuallity is a God-given thing, which is given to individuals even before they are married. Why would God do that some might ask? It is in all of your best interests to learn how to use your 'talent' wisely. No-one can stop an orgasm... but God has given you the strength to resist sining when this happens.

[anastasios]

Dear Bomber2K:

On the contrary, masturbation does not prevent further sin but leads to it, because it allows you to form images of women (men) in your mind that are not reality, and hold on to these images. The end result is a desire to go after that which one imagines. This is a form of idolatry.

In Christ,

Anastasios

[sam4u]

"Anti-,masturbate is a Islam, cultic teaching"

Apart from my longer response, I would like to just point out that that statement is offensive to me as an Orthodox Christian, because our Church, the Catholic Church, and the Lutheran Church in which I grew up all teach that masturbation is a sin,My whole statement was that masturbation is not a sin in the Bible. Anti-masturbation is a Islam, cultic teaching.

It should be offenive that any church should go against the Bible and teach things that is not in the Bible. Nowhere is masturbation a sin in the Bible. Lev 15: 16-18 talks of solo sex and partner sex and both are clearly not a sin that do not require any sin offering of any kind. The Bible is clear it is not a sin.

Cults and Islam use books other then the Bible. Maybe in their other book masturbation is a sin to them, but masturbation is not a sin in the Bible.

As far as Catholic goes, Martin Luther started with 95 thesis, errors of the Catholic church. I think he had his hands full. Sexuality is another subject that they use a lot of shame and guilt and intimination and name calling and it is a emotional subject depending on your brainwashing from childhood. Many people can not over come the brainwashing and past lies.

and the Church of Christ taught this doctrine even before the coming of Islam. Where is your source and proof of this statement? or did you take from mid air? Masturbation is not a sin in the Bible maybe it came from mid air? If you don't show me proof i will assume you took it from mid air.

If you want to say you disagree, please do as you have freedom to do so, but please do not say it is "Islamic" or "cultic" when the vast majority of Christians are in agreement against this practice.You are wrong. The vast majority do not believe that at all. Look at some of the surveys taken, the silence majority disagree with you. Survey show that 94% male masturbate, including 94% Christians and only 7% have wet dreams.

The only thing you are doing is putting a false man made shame and guilt trip on people who don't take the time to do there own open minded independence research on the subject and don't take the time to study the Bible in proper Bible culture and Bible time context. The people who has, totally disagree with you.


Do a Yahoo.com web search on: masturbation is not a sin in the Bible but a wonderful gift from God

Do a Yahoo.com web search on: christianmasturbation


They hear the same verses misused and taken out context and assume they are properly used which they are not. If you hear a lie long enough you start to think it is the truth. The lie have already been exposed and the misuse of Bible verses has been expose but the brainwashing remains. Many can not overcome the man made brainwashing and still go along with the lie.

[sam4u]

It is a problem for anyone because it creates a fantasy, invites in lust, and allows the mind to focus on creation rather than the Creator. Sexual fantasies are 100% normal and an important part of God sexual plan and without it God sexual plan would not even work at all. These sexual fantasies would also be included in Lev 15: 16-18 and they were not a sin then and they are not a sin today neither. The word lust is greatly misused and misunderstood in the Bible much of it is in connection with the 1000 to 2000 cultic temple prostitute who would seduce people with free sex to join them in the temple to have free sex and as a result their god would promise them good farm crops.

The New century version and the Bible in Basic English stop using the term lust all together.


I am not sure what you mean. First of all, Leviticus is the Jewish ceremonial law so it does not automatically apply to Christians now anyway. We are not under the law today at all. I use it because it clearly shows that even under the strict ceremonical law the solo masturbation , wet dreams and sex with a partner was not a sin and were all treated the same and all three would have the same sexual fantasies and was not a sin at all.

Secondly, it is talking about cleanliness which is different from the idea of sinfullness.If you take the time to read the context you will find before and after Lev 15: 16-18 that there was a sin offering required but for solo sex and partner sex there was not sin offering reqiured at all. But today under the age of grace it all is call clean and no ceremonical cleaning is require and no more sin offering is require at all. But solo sex and partner sex did not require any sin offering even under the strict law and does not require any under the age of grace also.

I have already explained this in many other posts.

Please take the time to read some of my other posts so i don't have to retype all my other all over again.

It is not even talking about masturbation anyway--it is talking about noctural emissions. The point of that passage is that in Jewish times if you had sex or a nocturnal emission you could not participate in the liturgical life of the Jewish religion because you were unclean. Most people would agree that vs 16 is results of solo sex and vs 18 is results with a partner sex in context. They cause the same results, that is ejaculation.
Today we would say solo ejacultion is by way of, survey show 7% wet dreams, and 94% by masturbation and partner sex with sexual intercourse. All three involves sexual fantasies and same body parts and similar body action and similar body results, which is ejaculation.

I am sorry my friend but your thoughts fly in the face of the established tradition of the Christian Church. God did wanted man to not be alone--this had nothing to do with sex, which is clear because Adam and Eve did not have sex until after they had fallen. Why do you think God make Eve? All the animal were having sex and Adam was watching them have sex but he had no sex partner to have sex with. If you daily watch hundred of animals having sex with a sex partner would you ask God where is my sex partner? This is God designed human nature.

Even Paul in Roman 1:27 know the natural use of a women that God designed was to have sex with men.
Roman 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
SOS is a metaphor for loving God. No. Not a metaphor at all. That is what the sexual hung up make of it. The Song of Solmon is about Solomon who already had 60 wives and 80 concubines was dating a beautiful young maiden and was trying to get her to marry him but she had another lover a local shepherd boy anf did not marry Solomon at all. She was single at that time and many hinds of nudity and kissing and oral sex but she is not marry and still a virgin. That is what SOS is about. Lots of sexy talk and nothing wrong with it then and nothing wrong with it today either.



The sexual urge is natural but can be excited by demons because the world is fallen now and not in the original state of blessedness devised by the Lord. Mostly not. Don't demonize sex. God designed sex and sexual hormones and we need to apply love to it. We live under the law of love today.

Actually I read that verse and it says nothing of the sort. It says that if a nocturnal emission or sex occurs the man or man and woman must wash and remain unclean for the day. It has to do with Jewish ceremonial law, not notions of sinfullness. Most would disagree with you. The context of Lev 15: 16-18 is about ejaculation both solo and with a partner. Solo, Including masturbation 94% and wet dreams only 7%.


The Church, which is the pillar and foundation of truth, and the Body of Christ, can rule on the sinfulness of actions not mentioned specifically in the Bible, just as it had the authority to rule on the doctrine of the Trinity. All major Christian confessions teach that masturbation is a sin. Masturbation is nowhere in my church doctrine statement. This is doctrine of men only not in the Bible.


It has nothing to do with shame and guilt. Masturbation causes problems in people, it causes them to lose self control,. The opposite is true. It bring self control. Read my other post i already explain all this over and over.

it is a sin that always wants more and more. Nowhere in the Bible is it a sin. Lev 15: 16-18 no sin offering is require at all. Not a sin. You call it a sin and then go to the Bible and look up every sin verse you can . It is not a sin at all.

Want to do something over and over does not make any thing a sin. You eat food over and over every day and that is not a sin. You go to the toilet over and over or more and more and that is not a sin. Bad logic.

The Church of Christ ruled against this practice and other sexual practices outside of a monogamous marriage because in its wisdom the people of God realized the harm that comes to a soul from masturbation and lust. The Bible does not rule against masturbation. Lust is greatly misused and misunderstood. Sexual fantasies are part of God's design. Lev 15: 16-18 would also include them and not asin at all.

Since you are a Protestant I cannot adequately argue with you on this point because your main assumption is that something must be found in scripture to be true. I, being an Orthodox Christian, believe that the Bible is interpreted through the living community of Christ's body, Can be greatly mis-interpreted also as history has shown. The Catholic church at one point declare that all sex was a sin so they could get more money from indulgenses. Some other use the man made shame and guilt trip to have power over the people and control them.

not by individuals, so it is therefore not necessary that something be explicitly taught in Scripture. It is clearly in Lev 15: 16-18 not a sin and in clear context. Any one can read and study. And expose lie with the truth.

That being said, I believe that even based on implictly reading scriptural injunctions against dirty minds and immorality, that one can ascertain that masturbation is included in the condemnation. Masturbation is not dirty nor immoral. God designed and said it was good in Gen 1:31 and has over 50 health benefits. God created sexuality both human and animal sexuality. Does God have a dirty mind?


Whether or not one believes in eternal security (I don't) is irrelevant: Christ calls us to deny ourselves and progress in holiness. You can't do that while masturbating.Solo sex and partner sex is treated the same in Lev 15: 16-18. What thoughts do you have when you have sex with your wife? Most people have sexy thoughts to be sexy. Do you read the Bible when you have sex with your wife? There is a time to pray and a time to read the Bible and then there is a time to be sexy and have sexual desires. God make it. don't bad month God sexual design.

[sam4u]

Dear Bomber2K:
On the contrary, masturbation does not prevent further sin but leads to it
because it allows you to form images of women (men) in your mind that are not reality, and hold on to these images. The end result is a desire to go after that which one imagines.,
Masturbation is not a sin in the Bible and is solo sex. Sometimes you may have partner sex but not all people. Song of Solomon is very sexy. God plan is most people may have partner sex but most all people have solo sex and it is not a sin but a gift from God for all people.

Sexual fantasies are and imp[ortant part of God's sexual part and without it God sexual plan would not even work at all. Also included in Lev 15: 16-18 and not a sin at all.

Matt 5:28-30 is greatly taken out of Bible culture times context and misunderstood and misused.



This is a form of idolatry.
masturbation is not idolatry because if it was it would have been a sin in Lev 15: 16-18 but it clearly was not.

[anastasios]

Dear Sam,

We are going to have to agree to disagree because we're not getting anywhere. I especially can't deal with someone who calls my Church a cult, or says that the "Catholic church once taught that all sex is a sin so they could get more money from indulgences." We'll have to agree to disagree. May God bless you.

Anastasios

[sam4u]

I especially can't deal with someone who calls my Church a cult,
I did not call your church a cult. I said that cults and Islam teaches anti-masturbation. If you agree with them that is your problem. I disagree with them.

Show me you Churches Statement of Doctrine. Masturbation will not be mention at all. Masturbation is not in your Statement of Faith either. Show it to me if it is. You may have some individual that agree with anti-masturbation but show me your churches doctrine statement.


or says that the "Catholic church once taught that all sex is a sin so they could get more money from indulgences." We'll have to agree to disagree. May God bless you.
This is history during the time they collected indulenences for sins. They make all sex to be a sin including sex with your wife so they could collect more money. This is historical fact of the history of the catholic church.

[anastasios]

Sam,

No, it's not historical fact. The Catholic Church at one time was plauged with an unhealthy view of sex but it never reached the level of saying all sexual sin is bad.

Have a nice day.

Anastasios

[sam4u]

Sam,

No, it's not historical fact. The Catholic Church at one time was plauged with an unhealthy view of sex but it never reached the level of saying all sexual sin is bad.

I read that somewhere and could find it again if i had to.

Do a yahoo.com web search on: "Bible & Sex content page history of the Catholic Celibacy and Catholic sex rules."

You will find it their.

Sometime power can be corrupting. History of the Catholic Church show times of major corruption and some of that got pasted down to us.

A lot has been exposed but i think there is still more.

If you study the Bible culture and Bible times that is correct context. Word in the Bible can be misused if you take it out of context.

The major context of Cornith is this religion that worshipped the fertility deity god. They had 1000 to 2000 beautiful young girl and guys prostitutes to seduce anyone and everyone to come to the temple to get free sex and they would promise good farm crops. If the girls got pregnant sometime they would have human bady scrifice to the god to get more blessing. This is the major sexual context of the Bible days. When study the word fornication 95% of the time it is in direct connect to idol worship in both the OT and NT. Compare Numbers 25:1-9 with 1Cor 10:8

There was a lot of sex in both OT and NT that was no problem at all but when it was in connection with this ferlity god worship it was major and make God angry.

In numbers 25 God killed about 24,000 not because they had sex but because they were worshipping this sex fertility god using their sexual was part of it.

God does not kill people over sex but worshipping other gods. This is the context in Cornith.

God does not send people to hell over sex, but does send them to hell for turning their back on God and worshipping a ferlity deity god hoping that this fertility god will bless their crops and they gave human baby scrifice to this god. This is the major context not the sex. Sex was the minor context. Today we total ignore the Bible context and make sex the major context and think God send people to hell becuse of sexuality that he designed for us to enjoy and get 50 health benefits.

[anastasios]

Sam,

As I have said before, I am not going to engage you further on this. God bless you and have a nice day :)

Anastasios

[sam4u]

Love
A deep, tender, ineffable feeling of affection and solicitude toward a person, such as that arising from kinship, recognition of attractive qualities, or a sense of underlying oneness.

Lust
lust
n.

Intense or unrestrained sexual craving.
sinful longing; the inward sin which leads to the falling away from God (Rom.
1:21). "Lust, the origin of sin, has its place in the heart, not of necessity,
but because it is the centre of all moral forces and impulses and of spiritual
activity." In Mark 4:19 "lusts" are objects of desire.


Of the definitions of Love and Lust, which does Masterbation sound most like? In the definition of the word lust they added the word sin. Therefore masturbation is not a sin there fore lust does not apply to masturbation at all. Lev 15: 16-18 clearly shows masturbation is not a sin.

Masturbation is loving yourself wishing you be loving another at the same time. The whole law is fulfill in that we love others as we love ourselves.

[Eli'ah]

You are suppose to kill your flesh masterbation is fleshly. So therefore kill it(the urge) You think Jesus ever mastebated??

[StevenL]

Meditate on Jesus and His Word and try and masturbate at the same time. Bet you can't keep it up.

[fashionably_lonely]

not a sin.

[christianfilmcrew]

What about if I'm showing my (as yet unknown) husband love by letting him masturbate when I'm too tired?

If he's not going to get to sleep because he's 'frisky', I think I'm acting out of love by suggesting he get rid of the urge - he can still do it while holding me and thinking of me.

I think in that instance, and in instances when I'm away that masturbation is ok.

I'm still unsure of unmarried masturbation - when you're a little kid and 'exploring' I don't think it's all that bad - but I think that if you have no 'married' way of relieving it, then you need to focus your mind elsewhere at that time.

When you're married, and alone or the other partner is too tired, I would tend to find it ok to utilise. That is, of course, unless I knew that there was a porn/lust problem going on.

SaschSascha, how many husbands have you really had?

[notinvain]

One question to end this thread.

Why did God create sex?

[fashionably_lonely]

pleasure and procreation. but considering masturbation is a pale substitute for sex, even that doesn't work.

[notinvain]

God created sex for procreation.
God created the pleasure of sex to be enjoyed by husband and wife.
If your not married and you can't control your sexual urges than get married!

[fashionably_lonely]

Easier said then done. And what about couples who never have or choose not to have kids, I suppose they're evil people for continuing to have sex.

[nickfury]

How can you say masturbation is not a sin. It is sexual immorality and Paul said you will not inherit the Kingdom of God If you do this.

[legion33]

well lets see....I'm yoked to Christ and the Holy Spirit dwells within me.When would I be alone to do something like that,or any other christian for that matter.:thumbsup:

[Crispie]

Lets use some common christian sense and answer these two questions! Is sexual pleasure a gift by God for a man and women to share together in sex in marriage? WWJD? Good good!

[Crispie]

How can you say masturbation is not a sin. It is sexual immorality and Paul said you will not inherit the Kingdom of God If you do this.


No, he didnt. And if you mean that one verse, what he means people with that nature adulterers liers etc, unsaved people, will not inherit the kingdom of God. Remember, no sin can break our bonds to God in this covenant, God has forgiven all our sins and we are now able to go to heaven.

[victor128]

I used to think b4 reading this thread that masturbation was not a sin, only lust and pornography and fantasizing and different things people do while masturbating might be sinful, but masturbation in and of itself isn't sinful is what I thought. But now I am confused from reading all this material in this thread. Apparently people just don't know if it is or not. IT has been noted that young children, even babies and infants masturbate, sometimes even before they are born. Is what they are doing as toddlers or young children wrong? And if not, at what point in there life does masturbation become sinful if they keep that up all there life. People find out about masturbation a lot by accident and by themselves, and when they actually know what it is that they are doing it can be of different ages, many people don't even know what masturbation is till they are a young adult, yet they themselves may have masturbated all thru there childhood and adulthood years just not knowing what it is they are doing. So, in scenarios like that, when does it become wrong for these people who masturbate and don't even know what masturbation is, especially if they are children?? And, then what do you do about it when you find out it is a sin and want to quit but are in a bad habit? How do you get rid of that urge and that tingling feeling you get each day associated with the urge to masturbate?

[want8trax]

what if you often masturbate in your sleep and wake up masturbating? apparently this is a normal activity too for some people. you can stop masturbating as much as you can when you are awake but may masturbate in your sleep and wake up doing that? is that sinful, to masturbate when you are asleep when you probably had no control over that? Of course when you wake up and realize what you are doing, you can either keep doing it, or you can stop, but it sure is hard to stop.

[Monica02]

I used to think b4 reading this thread that masturbation was not a sin, only lust and pornography and fantasizing and different things people do while masturbating might be sinful, but masturbation in and of itself isn't sinful is what I thought. But now I am confused from reading all this material in this thread. Apparently people just don't know if it is or not. IT has been noted that young children, even babies and infants masturbate, sometimes even before they are born. Is what they are doing as toddlers or young children wrong? And if not, at what point in there life does masturbation become sinful if they keep that up all there life. People find out about masturbation a lot by accident and by themselves, and when they actually know what it is that they are doing it can be of different ages, many people don't even know what masturbation is till they are a young adult, yet they themselves may have masturbated all thru there childhood and adulthood years just not knowing what it is they are doing. So, in scenarios like that, when does it become wrong for these people who masturbate and don't even know what masturbation is, especially if they are children?? ?
In Catholicism a mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and consent, so if a person is unaware of what they are doing is wrong then it is not a mortal sin.

[Sascha Fitzpatrick]

I think the point where masturbation turns from 'normal exploring' to 'sin' is when your thought life is being sinful - ie, when you are thinking of sexual exploits with someone who is either a) not your spouse or even b) not your spouse YET. I wouldn't be getting upset at a young child (pre and peri-puberty) because that is normal. I would during the course of normal 'sex' talk start talking to them though about how masturbation can turn into a sin, and that it's generally not a good idea to continue doing it after the initial onset of puberty - regardless of anything else, it also makes a mess if you're a boy (and I'm sure he'd be embarrassed having his mum cleaning the sheets)!

I can't honestly argue with someone who says that they masturbate whilst not thinking of anybody - I have been at that place before personally, however I discovered that it wasn't too long until I DID start putting a 'nameless' person into my mind, which is STILL sinful - even though I didn't know the person, they still weren't my husband. I had some sexual addiction problems in my past, so masturbation has NEVER been a great idea for me. Thankfully I've been dealing with this over the past few years, so the urge has greatly decreased, to the point where I just don't do it.

Dreams - well I don't think you can be held TOO accountable for what happens in your subconscious, however, I would be praying that God would remove those images and actions from my dreaming time - he's big enough to get in there and change it! :)

And, as I've said before, I wouldn't have a problem with masturbation in marriage, provided that there was no hint of adultery or addiction with it (or implementation of porn, etc). Tiredness on the other partner's part would warrant it (I'd expect my husband to ask me if I minded him doing it, and to be doing it in my presence), as would a distance factor, provided again they were thoughts of me and not with the implementation of magazines or other objects.

Just my beliefs there. I think you're getting into risky territory doing it unmarried at an age where you CAN be married. I do think repeated performances would be sinful, as you would eventually succomb to some 'enhancer', whether that be porn, thoughts, toys, etc.

Sasch

[victor128]

Sasch, I honestly don't think of anyone at all when I masturbate. Thing is, I started to do it so young, I cannot remember my first time, it was as an infant. If you were to ask a child why they do it, for many it is a pacifier, like when they are afraid or something. And I think that can continue to adulthood even, masturbating when you are stressed out or something. I know you should pray and stuff when you are stressed and I do. What do I think about when I masturbate? I think about lots of things, things I have to do that day, or virtually anything else, but I do not lust, use porn, or fantasize or think about anyone really. Why do I do it?? Perhaps the same reasons as I did as a child, after I discovered it by accident when I was little. As a pacifier, and now I probably more or less do it as after all this time it would now be an addiction. Honestly, what do you think, am I doing anything wrong?? Also, why does God allow many children to discover masturbation as a child when children don't know what it is even or know that it may be wrong. Then they can be addicted to it before adolescense even. And now, as a young adult, I find out that it may be a sin. Well, now it pretty hard to stop, not after doing it all my life and becoming addicted to it. If it is so wrong, why did God allow me to get addicted to it before I knew it was wrong, and now have me struggle with quitting?? Also, unlike other sins, masturbation doesn't seem to have the consequences associated with sin. When a person has pre-marital sex for example, they risk unwanted pregnancies, and there are s.t.d.'s they can pick up, and there are other consequences too. And there are consequences when we tell lies, and pretty much every sin. But, what are the consequences of masturbation, when it is done without any lust, fantasizing, or pornography. I mean lust, pornography and all that has consequences, but what does masturbation actually have???

[WesWoodell]

I have heard both ways.
Is masturbation a sin?



Well, what does a person think about when they masturbate, and is it holy?

[Sascha Fitzpatrick]

Victor,

Honestly, if you can masturbate to release stress and NOT be thinking about what it would be like if someone else (even if you haven't actually got a real person in mind), or tempted to 'enhance' with objects, then I can't really come out clearly and go 'yes that is a sin'. That's from my own experience - it was the thoughts that started coming out over time that made it part of a sexual addiction I had, and made it sinful in my eyes.

I can't go around condemning everyone about masturbation, it is something you have to come to on your own. If you are totally honest and upfront with yourself in saying that you never think anything sexual whilst masturbating, and it is purely a stress releaser, then in and of itself I wouldn't think it was sinful.

However, having been in the place where I did it to relieve stress and anxiety (ie without thoughts and enhancers), and then see it slowly deviate to include things that would manifest it as 'lust' and therefore sin, I would caution you to have a look at other things you could do to relieve stress. The last thing you want is something to have a hold over you where you just can't 'not' do it.

You admit that it woud be almost impossible for you to stop now, and that is an issue. Nothing (apart from worshipping God) should be that strong in our lives that it would be impossible to stop - that does imply addiction, which is, even if not completely 'sinful', definitely dangerous. It says that something other than God and your own will has power over you.

As someone who was a victim of sexual abuse, I am very anti anything that can have power over me (apart from God, obviously). I personally do not like being in a place where something else dictates to me, and where I am, in some form or another a 'victim'. I think this was part of the thing that 'resolved' (I'm not cured YET) the addictions I had - I couldn't bear the thought of something else having power over me and not being able to control it.

I will pray for you though - I believe you when you say you don't think of sexual/lustful things whilst you're doing it (I was like that for years), but it is a slippery slope into sinfulness, eventually.

As for consequences, whilst they may not be completely 'physical' (ie STDs, pregnancy, etc), there are certainly emotional fallouts from addictive masturbation. When you get into a married relationship, some of those selfish expectations that were developed through masturbation can be introduced into a marriage bed, often with devastating consequences for your spouse. It can often turn sex into a 'me first' agenda - with no thought of pleasuring someone else. I do know of some couples who struggled in the beginnings of their sexual relationship due to repeated masturbation on one or both parties parts. The act of 'standard masturbation' (ie, done to yourself) can often hinder intercourse, as you are so used to doing it exactly the way you want it done, that having someone else involved can often frustrate and irritate someone. Plus, if porn or toys have come into the equation with it, some men desire their wives to do the same, and may remove themselves from that intimate expression of love, if that desire is not met. All things, which in my books, does not equate mutual lovemaking and making your spouse feel desired and loved and accepted!

God bless, and I sincerely hope my transperency didn't offend anyone. I would also appreciate feedback if something didn't make sense/is disagreed with/made sense.

Sasch

[Seeker314]

I agree very much with your perspective Sascha, it incorporates a psychological perspective that few consider when looking at long-term psychological effects; basically speaking, the imagination can add mental content to the mind, and imagining certain sexual scenarios on a consistent basis will definitely have a lasting influence on actual sexual expectations. Well put...

"He who has ears, let him hear"...

Seeker314

[Freeman777]

I am tired of the judgmentalism of some posts on this thread. Listen! I have a friend who has lustful thoughts. He tells me when he is sometimes away from his wife he finds it extremely difficult. He is tempted to buy girlie magazines, or see a porn movie, or fantasizes about going to a strip club, or even a prostitute. Yet, he loves his wife dearly. He is just a weak human being like all of us. He tells me that the bad thoughts can go on for days driving him absolutely mad with temptation.

He has been a Christian for decades, so he prays about it, but the temptation does not go away. In the end, he masturbates to put a stop to the whole thing. He wants to be loyal to his wife and so far has not been unfaithful. He says masterbation is the only thing that allows him rest from his lustful thoughts. He says he hates being away from his wife on business, because of this situation. I don't judge him. How can I! I think if I told him about some of your judgmental comments he would be devastated. Some choices in life are like Rahab's lie, the lesser of two evils.
Masturbation is a wonderful gift from God.

[Child_of_Yahweh]

I won't say that masturbation is a sin or that it isn't because I haven't found anything in the bible yet to clarify either, however, there is ALOT to be read and I have found that I can read 1 verse 100 times and finally the 100th time, I get it. This is my theory: If you feel the need to ask the question, "Is masturbation a sin?", then it seems that you already feel "guilty" about the act itself. I believe that whether I know it to be in the Bible or not, if it is something that makes me feel guilty or that I am going against the Heavenly Father, I choose to try and avoid it. (I am speaking of ANY act, not particularly masturbation).

[GK]

Mod Note:
I'm closing this one down, not because there's anything wrong with it, but because it's so old. If this is something we really want to have a discussion about, please start a new thread.