My impressions so far

[BabyLutheran]

My biggest impression from TCL so far is that it appears that you need a PhD or at least a MA to understand Lutheranism. Not that I mind, it will give me something to attempt to understand for the rest of my life:P

[Radiata]

My biggest impression from TCL so far is that it appears that you need a PhD or at least a MA to understand Lutheranism. Not that I mind, it will give me something to attempt to understand for the rest of my life:P
Not at all. I just started serious Lutheran studies last June, and I understand vastly more than when I started. Some people say that you can go to my church all your life, and not know a thing about Lutheranism. Now, I have to do all that studying on my own. And you know what? I am thoroughly enjoying it. I'd guess that withing another 5 months, I would understand almost all of it. The only problem is, now that school has started, I am going to have to cut back. Especially with that crazy Sociology professor assigning me 50 pages a day when the reading is so complicated that it takes me 5 minutes to read one page.

[KimLCMS]

My biggest impression from TCL so far is that it appears that you need a PhD or at least a MA to understand Lutheranism. Not that I mind, it will give me something to attempt to understand for the rest of my life:P
It's a good place to learn. I know that the posters here would be glad to explain anything that they post.

[BabyLutheran]

I was halfway tongue-in-cheek...

Part of the problem is that I still haven't bought anything to read, I need to get on with ordering some books, or else go to the library!

I am a CPA and it's tax season-that doesn't help any either.

[DaSeminarian]

I was halfway tongue-in-cheek...

Part of the problem is that I still haven't bought anything to read, I need to get on with ordering some books, or else go to the library!

I am a CPA and it's tax season-that doesn't help any either.


I'm sure the bookstores are open on April 16th

[Willy]

Lutherans have definitely been head oriented people. It is one of the gifts we offer to the whole church. But as is true for most "good" gifts, our emphasis on the intellect can be one of our defects. We scare people away with the intellectualism. And in some experiences of Lutheranism our emphasis on thinking can become ideology or dogmatism. From my perspective that is when our thinking becomes "law," an experience not of good news ("yes") but of "no." And truthfully, our way of thinking become much more understandable when we use language that makes sense to twenty-first century ears. Sadly, sometimes, our language so often uses words and concepts that modern people can't grasp without a lot of work.

[DaSeminarian]

Lutherans have definitely been head oriented people. It is one of the gifts we offer to the whole church. But as is true for most "good" gifts, our emphasis on the intellect can be one of our defects. We scare people away with the intellectualism. And in some experiences of Lutheranism our emphasis on thinking can become ideology or dogmatism. From my perspective that is when our thinking becomes "law," an experience not of good news ("yes") but of "no." And truthfully, our way of thinking become much more understandable when we use language that makes sense to twenty-first century ears. Sadly, sometimes, our language so often uses words and concepts that modern people can't grasp without a lot of work.

Willy,

I disagree with you on this. Lutherans are not all "head cases" we have some very simple folk in the church and really they are the heart and soul of the Lutheran Church. I find most of the head cases in the Seminaries more than I do the churches.

[RadMan]

Lutherans have definitely been head oriented people. It is one of the gifts we offer to the whole church. But as is true for most "good" gifts, our emphasis on the intellect can be one of our defects. We scare people away with the intellectualism. And in some experiences of Lutheranism our emphasis on thinking can become ideology or dogmatism. From my perspective that is when our thinking becomes "law," an experience not of good news ("yes") but of "no." And truthfully, our way of thinking become much more understandable when we use language that makes sense to twenty-first century ears. Sadly, sometimes, our language so often uses words and concepts that modern people can't grasp without a lot of work.Head oriented yea, legalistic, I'm not so sure of that. Legalism is more of a reformed idea. Actually I think the refinement of theology through discussion leads back to "Sola Scriptura".

[Melethiel]

My biggest impression from TCL so far is that it appears that you need a PhD or at least a MA to understand Lutheranism. Not that I mind, it will give me something to attempt to understand for the rest of my life:P
Not really...I understand stuff fairly well, and I'm still on my BM. :P

[RevCowboy]

My biggest impression from TCL so far is that it appears that you need a PhD or at least a MA to understand Lutheranism. Not that I mind, it will give me something to attempt to understand for the rest of my life:P

Not a PhD or MA but MDiv!!! Ever thought about seminary BL?;)

If you can read the small catechism you will understand Lutheranism. However, Willy is right that Lutherans tend to have an emphasis on academic theology, which I believe is part of their gift to the Body of Christ.

Professional theology can always sound a little intimidating, but really its about using as many big words as we can to make ourselves feel important. Its because pastors don't have any other skills and would be useless as human beings is they could sound theologically smart.:D

Not at all. I just started serious Lutheran studies last June, and I understand vastly more than when I started. Some people say that you can go to my church all your life, and not know a thing about Lutheranism. Now, I have to do all that studying on my own. And you know what? I am thoroughly enjoying it. I'd guess that withing another 5 months, I would understand almost all of it. The only problem is, now that school has started, I am going to have to cut back. Especially with that crazy Sociology professor assigning me 50 pages a day when the reading is so complicated that it takes me 5 minutes to read one page.

If you can understand all of Lutheranism in 5 more months of study you must be some kind of genius. I don't even think Luther understood all of Lutheranism.:bow:

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

I think one of the reasons Lutherans have to be so firm on doctrine and head-knowledge is because in a world so centered on self, and especially in a culture so obsessed with the human 'choosing' of belief, we need to take a firm stand on the priority of God in salvation. We have to argue, and take our stand in the head. Besides, Lutheranism has always conceived of itself as a movement calling the church catholic back to the gospel.

But once that belief takes hold, once God convinces the broken sinner that they are broken, the core of Lutheran spirituality is entirely within the heart. Once the Holy Spirit convicts us, we can rest entirely within God's loving embrace.

[Edial]

My biggest impression from TCL so far is that it appears that you need a PhD or at least a MA to understand Lutheranism. Not that I mind, it will give me something to attempt to understand for the rest of my life:P
Oh no, you're doing fine.

If you came from the non-denom ot Baptists you already have a lot of your stuff in place.
You already see the differences between the emotional and spiritual types of worship - big plus.
You already believe in the real presence in the spiritual context (a big step) and baptism also takes some time to evaluate.

What you need to do is to take the edge of the decision theology - I choose Christ type of thing. Just dull it.
(When I say "you" I actually mean people that come from such backgrounds, including myself).

If you want to choose a more emphasis on a traditional and historical aspects, just make certain it does not infringe on the Scriptures.

You already have it.
It's matter of continual honing.

The rest is balance and priorities.

Thanks,
Ed

[Izdaari]

Lutherans have definitely been head oriented people. It is one of the gifts we offer to the whole church. But as is true for most "good" gifts, our emphasis on the intellect can be one of our defects. We scare people away with the intellectualism. And in some experiences of Lutheranism our emphasis on thinking can become ideology or dogmatism. From my perspective that is when our thinking becomes "law," an experience not of good news ("yes") but of "no." And truthfully, our way of thinking become much more understandable when we use language that makes sense to twenty-first century ears. Sadly, sometimes, our language so often uses words and concepts that modern people can't grasp without a lot of work.
The Lutheran tendency to intellectualism is one of the main things that draws me to it. I feel the same attraction for certain traditions within Catholicism, such as the Jesuits and the medieval Scholastics. I know that sounds odd coming from a Pentecostal.

I suppose that affinity is because operating in a rationalistic mode is how my brain works... but it isn't always how God works, so I have to remember not to try to jam Him into my modes of thinking. It was through rational analysis of the evidence that I came to Christ... or more accurately, came back to Him as an adult after I'd strayed during my teen years... but I don't suppose I'd have taken that step if God hadn't been calling me. And a "leap of faith" is still required, the evidence not being sufficient to prove anything for certain, only pointing to a probability.

One thing Lutherans have right for sure: Law is not the Good News; Grace is.

[Edial]

The Lutheran tendency to intellectualism is one of the main things that draws me to it. I feel the same attraction for certain traditions within Catholicism, such as the Jesuits and the medieval Scholastics. I know that sounds odd coming from a Pentecostal.

I suppose that's because operating in a rationalistic mode is how my brain works... but it isn't always how God works, so I have to remember not to try to jam Him into my modes of thinking.

One thing Lutherans have right for sure: Law is not the Good News; Grace is.
Bless you. :)

Your rationalistic mind will find home here.
(I am not saying it will find rest, just home. :))
Lutherans are a rationalistic bunch when there is pressure. They get serious, guards are up, the fort must be defended. :)
Yet, when all is fine, they are the most fun-loving bunch of men and women one can find.

You MUST see Oktoberfests.

Yet, in many ways, Lutherans deny rationalism, because Scriptures stand on their own.

Sometimes we also get defensive.
We got our defensive posture from Martin Luther.
HOWEVER, it is not defensive as a coward would be, but that of a warrior who always counts his troops.
Martin was FAR from being a coward. :)

Lutherans usually do not waver not weave, but defend that what was Given to us.

Thank you for kind words. :)

Ed

[Izdaari]

Thank you for kind words. :)

Ed
And thank you, Ed! :hug:

God led me to my present AG church, and I'm going to stay where He put me. He knows best, and it's an excellent church, a good fit for me. But still, I love reading Martin Luther and Lutheran theology. It's wonderfully rational, if not rationalistic, and it's solidly Grace-centered, as I believe sound theology must be.

:preach:;)

[Edial]

And thank you, Ed! :hug:

God led me to my present AG church, and I'm going to stay where He put me. He knows best, and it's an excellent church, a good fit for me. But still, I love reading Martin Luther and Lutheran theology. It's wonderfully rational, if not rationalistic, and it's solidly Grace-centered, as I believe sound theology must be.

:preach:;)
:)

[RadMan]

The Lutheran tendency to intellectualism is one of the main things that draws me to it. I feel the same attraction for certain traditions within Catholicism, such as the Jesuits and the medieval Scholastics. I know that sounds odd coming from a Pentecostal.

I suppose that affinity is because operating in a rationalistic mode is how my brain works... but it isn't always how God works, so I have to remember not to try to jam Him into my modes of thinking. It was through rational analysis of the evidence that I came to Christ... or more accurately, came back to Him as an adult after I'd strayed during my teen years... but I don't suppose I'd have taken that step if God hadn't been calling me. And a "leap of faith" is still required, the evidence not being sufficient to prove anything for certain, only pointing to a probability.

One thing Lutherans have right for sure: Law is not the Good News; Grace is.Lutheranism is actually very simple. We don't add or take away from the scriptures. We take everything in context and nothing out of context. We don't formulate an opinion and then use scripture to support it There are no deep dark mysteries in the Bible and only having the faith of a little child can help keep it so simple. As I said before "Sola Scripture", scripture alone.

Many of the large words you see here come from sem students and pastors having to justify to others and themselves the large amounts of money spent of an education. :D Really though. As someone said on here recently. Big words are a short way of saying something and you also notice that we are one of the few denoms that take our education to the highest level for our pastors.

[BabyLutheran]

Oh no, you're doing fine.

If you came from the non-denom ot Baptists you already have a lot of your stuff in place.
You already see the differences between the emotional and spiritual types of worship - big plus.
You already believe in the real presence in the spiritual context (a big step) and baptism also takes some time to evaluate.

What you need to do is to take the edge of the decision theology - I choose Christ type of thing. Just dull it.
(When I say "you" I actually mean people that come from such backgrounds, including myself).

If you want to choose a more emphasis on a traditional and historical aspects, just make certain it does not infringe on the Scriptures.

You already have it.
It's matter of continual honing.

The rest is balance and priorities.

Thanks,
Ed
It's funny, what you said about not coming from a denominational background: one of my clients is a baptist church. One day I was out there talking to the financial guy, and I mentioned that I had attended a church where the Apostle's Creed was recited, and how I really thought that was important. He said he couldn't ever remember what the words were...I became very distressed inside, but tried not to show it. lol

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Part of the problem is that I still haven't bought anything to read,
:preach:
As busy as you are, get a copy of Gene Edward Vieth's book; Spirituality of the Cross. It is an easy, enlightening, and spiritually uplifting read that tells the story of Dr. Vieth's own spiritual journey, and his discovery of Lutheranism, and our doctrines. I have loaned my copy to non-Lutherans (even some Catholics), and all have told me that it has greatly bolstered their faith, and understanding.:)

Go get it!:thumbsup:

Mark

[BabyLutheran]

I'm sure the bookstores are open on April 16th
That's the last thing I will be thinking about on 4/16, going to the bookstore! lol

[Radiata]

If you can understand all of Lutheranism in 5 more months of study you must be some kind of genius. I don't even think Luther understood all of Lutheranism.:bow:
I said most.:P
There are no deep dark mysteries in the Bible and only having the faith of a little child can help keep it so simple
Let's see, in the tail of the good semaritan, he gave the inn keeper 2 silver coins. The two silver coins must mean the "Law" and the "Gospel"..............

[maylor]

BabyLutheran,

I'm a new Lutheran also. The books I recently aquired:

Holy Bible NIV (version my church uses, I had a KJV, which I still prefer.)

Luther's Small Catechism with explanation.

Lutheran Book of Prayer.

Christian Worship, A Lutheran Hymnal (Hymnal that my Synod uses, I wish we used the 1941 The Lutheran Hymnal ).

Basic Luther, contains:

The Ninety-five Theses

Address to the Nobility

Concerning Christian Liberty

A Small Catechism.

These have been a great help to me growing in the Lutheran Faith.

[Tofferer]

Maylor,

I'd suggest getting "Concordia", which is a readers edition of the Book of Concord. Its about $40 but well worth it. Admittedly my copy was a gift from my church, but I would have gladly paid the price for it at the local book store. I also have a copy of the Kolb/Wengert edition of the Book of Concord, which was a Christmas present from my mother in law. Either one of these would be a good addition to the library you are now building.

[DaRev]

Christian Worship, A Lutheran Hymnal (Hymnal that my Synod uses, I wish we used the 1941 The Lutheran Hymnal ).

The new LCMS hymnal, Lutheran Service Book, has the good ol' page 15 communion service from TLH. :)

[Kirkhaven]

Would you folks say that starting with Luthers Small Catechism is the best way to start if one wants to understand the basic theology behind Lutheranism then?

[maylor]

Maylor,

I'd suggest getting "Concordia", which is a readers edition of the Book of Concord. Its about $40 but well worth it. Admittedly my copy was a gift from my church, but I would have gladly paid the price for it at the local book store. I also have a copy of the Kolb/Wengert edition of the Book of Concord, which was a Christmas present from my mother in law. Either one of these would be a good addition to the library you are now building.

Thanks, I just put these on my list. I do have access to many books of course through the church library, which I should start taking advantage of.

The new LCMS hymnal, Lutheran Service Book, has the good ol' page 15 communion service from TLH. :)

The parts of the TLH that I have read online, I liked very much. Much of the contemporary language and phrasing in the new hymnal seems less reverent to me.Also the paraphrasing of the Psalms kind of disturbs me! And while were on the subject, I wish my church held the Divine Service every week not just the 1st and 3rd sunday of the month. I wish my church was even more liturgical/ traditional. I guess you can't squeeze all that into an hour! And who said it has to be an hour? I wouldn't mind in the least if it was 2 instead of one and then maybe we could have mass every week and not have to throw out chunks of the traditional liturgy!

[DaRev]

Our Divine Services are roughly an hour and fifteen minutes, and we have the Lord's Supper every Sunday.

[maylor]

Would you folks say that starting with Luthers Small Catechism is the best way to start if one wants to understand the basic theology behind Lutheranism then?

I'd say so, but I'm a newbie Lutheran. There are seminary students and ordained pastors here who know better than I. If you do get a copy, get with the explanation. Concordia Publishing House offers a little hard bound copy for under $10.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw/103-5952229-6927803?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=luther%27s+small+catechism

[DaSeminarian]

Thanks, I just put these on my list. I do have access to many books of course through the church library, which I should start taking advantage of.



The parts of the TLH that I have read online, I liked very much. Much of the contemporary language and phrasing in the new hymnal seems less reverent to me.Also the paraphrasing of the Psalms kind of disturbs me! And while were on the subject, I wish my church held the Divine Service every week not just the 1st and 3rd sunday of the month. I wish my church was even more liturgical/ traditional. I guess you can't squeeze all that into an hour! And who said it has to be an hour? I wouldn't mind in the least if it was 2 instead of one and then maybe we could have mass every week and not have to throw out chunks of the traditional liturgy!

Hmmm I don't think that the Psalms were that much of a paraphrase. I will have to check that out. I am a lector at my fieldwork church and that concerns me.

[Melethiel]

Hmmm I don't think that the Psalms were that much of a paraphrase. I will have to check that out. I am a lector at my fieldwork church and that concerns me.
I own the LSB. The Psalms are straight out of the ESV.

[maylor]

Hmmm I don't think that the Psalms were that much of a paraphrase. I will have to check that out. I am a lector at my fieldwork church and that concerns me.

I'm speaking about the Christian Worship, A Lutheran Hymnal in use by the WELS. "Paraphrase" probably wasn't the right word. They just leave out verses and condense them.

[Kirkhaven]

Thanks maylor, I've been eyeing the exact copy you've suggested at my local Christian bookstore. :D

[DaRev]

I'm speaking about the Christian Worship, A Lutheran Hymnal in use by the WELS. "Paraphrase" probably wasn't the right word. They just leave out verses and condense them.

Are they classified as "Psalms" or "Introits"? The Introits are usually selected verses from Psalms and other portions of Scripture to be chanted during the liturgy.

[maylor]

Are they classified as "Psalms" or "Introits"? The Introits are usually selected verses from Psalms and other portions of Scripture to be chanted during the liturgy.

No, they're Psalms. Our services usually include a Psalm of the day that is sung by the congregation. This from the hymnal:

The following Psalms have been printed for use in worship. Some of these psalms appear in their entirety; many others (that is most!) include only a selection of verses.......

Each psalm includes a refrain and a psalm tone.

[rockytrails]

Lutherans theology simply said is this .

we trust not in our own understanding our trust is in Gods word.

job 37:5

[DaRev]

No, they're Psalms. Our services usually include a Psalm of the day that is sung by the congregation. This from the hymnal:

The following Psalms have been printed for use in worship. Some of these psalms appear in their entirety; many others (that is most!) include only a selection of verses.......

Each psalm includes a refrain and a psalm tone.

If it has a "refrain" (also called an "antiphon") then the Psalm is being sung as an Introit. Do you usually sing them after the confession and absolution?

[maylor]

If it has a "refrain" (also called an "antiphon") then the Psalm is being sung as an Introit. Do you usually sing them after the confession and absolution?

At my church, Psalm of the Day is sung after the First Lesson. (which is after confession and absolution).

[DaRev]

At my church, Psalm of the Day is sung after the First Lesson. (which is after confession and absolution).

:thumbsup: