Orthodox Church

[HunterJon]

I'm sorry if this has been discussed earlier and if it has please point me to the correct thread. I am a protestant (Moravian) and I would just like to know a few things. What is the Orthodox Church about and what do you all believe? Are your services like a Catholic mass or are they different? Are your services held in the language of the people or in something like Latin? Thanks for allowing me to ask these questions.

[Oblio]

Welcome to TAW HunterJon,



I'm sorry if this has been discussed earlier and if it has please point me to the correct thread. I am a protestant (Moravian) and I would just like to know a few things. What is the Orthodox Church about and what do you all believe?


The Church is about worshiping God in spirit and in truth. It is best described as a way of life, a transformation made possible through the Grace of God to draw near to Him to become like we were meant to be.

The Orthodox Chuch is the Church established by Christ, neither added to, nor subtracted from as has occured throughout the centuries in the West.

The Nicean/Constantinopolitan Creed (sans Filioque) is a good synopsis of what we believe.

Are your services like a Catholic mass or are they different?


While they are Liturgical like Catholic Mass, they are different in many respects. They are definately much more ancient. Our usual Divine Liturgy (in the Eastern Rite) dates from the 4th c. AD, with major parts being taken from the service written by St. James the Apostle in the first century.

Note: There are some Eastern Catholics that do use our Liturgy but adhere to RC Theology and Ecclesiology. Properly speaking, they do not celebrate Mass, but I mention this for completeness and accuracy.


Are your services held in the language of the people or in something like Latin?


The Orthodox Church has always translated her services to and worshipped in the language of the people. This may be in something other than English or mixed if there is a large ethnic membership in the church. In the US, this is becoming less and less common as immigrants who brought their faith to America are being assimilated into our culture, many (Especially Orthodox Church in America, Antiochian) are entirely in English.


Thanks for allowing me to ask these questions.

Thank you for asking :)

[Oblio]

An easy to read outline of The Orthodox Faith (http://www.oca.org/pages/orth_chri/Orthodox-Faith/index.htm)

A wealth of knowledge can also be found here (http://www.fatheralexander.org)

[Orthosdoxa]

Hi Jon,

I'm a recent convert and I like to point people to my web page, because it lists all the sites that were helpful to me when I first began to explore Orthodoxy.

http://stienekel.tripod.com/

Enjoy, and welcome to TAW!

[HunterJon]

A few more questions that i just remembered I wanted to ask, to you have confesional, and do you pray to Mary like you would pray to Jesus? Once again thank you and pardon my ignorance on these matters.

[Moros]

I'm sorry if this has been discussed earlier and if it has please point me to the correct thread. I am a protestant (Moravian) and I would just like to know a few things.

I'm surprised you don't know, being a Moravian. Jan Hus originally wanted to bring Bohemia back to it's Orthodoxy after the Hapsburgs? forced them all to convert to Roman Catholicism.

The Orthodox Church and the Catholic Church were the same until 1054 AD when Rome split from "us" and became it's own denomination over time with new practices, new dogma, new doctrine, the central authority, the mass in LATIN ONLY :mad:, all property in europe owned by the vatican, etc etc.

Anyways, we base our church on the following.

The Bible/Christ
The Apostles
The first seven Ecumenical Councils.
The Church Fathers
Three Holy Hierarchs (Chrysostom, St. Basil, St. Gregory)

and a lot more.

Roman Catholicism began in 1054.

Orthodox Christianity began in 33 AD on Pentecost.

Both Churches can trace their roots to the ONE, HOLY, CATHOLIC (meaning: universal, NOT centered in the "pope!") and APOSTOLIC CHURCH of Christ, but we stopped altering doctrine and practices at the schism, catholics continue to.

There's so much to it, fella.

I suggest hitting google and learning basic church history and about the schism, and asking questions later.

the history of the church will give you a blatant view as to which was and is the original church.

[Matthias]

If you want to know about the Orthodox Church, then I suggest you have a look around this forum. We get asked these same questions about 3 or 4 times per week, and it can get a little frustrating at answering them again, and again, and again. At least I can speak for myself.

[Oblio]

I suggest hitting google and learning basic church history and about the schism, and asking questions later.


And I submit that HunterJon came to us with sincere questions. As an Orthodox Christian, it is our commission (and yours BTW) to share our faith with charity and love, rather than with sarcasm and ridicule.

[Oblio]

A few more questions that i just remembered I wanted to ask, to you have confesional, and do you pray to Mary like you would pray to Jesus? Once again thank you and pardon my ignorance on these matters.


No need to apologize, that is one of the reasons we are here (ascerbic comments from some others aside :( ) I think most of us had these questions prior to becoming Orthodox.

We do practice the Mystery of Holy Confession, however we do not sit in front of a confessional, rather the priest stands with you, before the icon of Christ, as a witness, as a representative of the Church, and as a spiritual guide to help you overcome your sins through prayer and practical advice. We do not confess to the priest, but to God.

We do not pray to Mary or any of the Saints as we do to God, but rather we ask them to pray for us, much as we would ask a friend in church to do so. We do this because we know that they are alive in Christ, for our God is a God of the living and not the dead, and we know that they surround us a great cloud of witnessness interceeding before God on our behalf.

[Eusebios]

HunterJon,
Hello and welcome to TAW! I can't add much to what the always capable and accomodating Oblio and A-Kat have already said. Please forgive some of our other brothers as they seem to have been either tired, or cranky or both when posting replies.
While it is true that we do seem to get a number of similar questions often, we DO NOT at all mind answering them, as Oblio has said, most of us had the same questions prior to coming to Holy Orthodoxy.
I realize that you have been given a wealth of information already, but I also wanted to let you know about a well written book, available all on-line by Bishop Kallistos (Ware), called simply The Orthodox Church (http://www.intratext.com/X/ENG0804.HTM). It is a basic, but thorough and fair assesment of the Church's history.
Thanks for your polite and pointed questions, be assured any and all others you have are welcome.
His onworthy servant,
Eusebios.
:bow:

[Philip]

The Orthodox Church has always translated her services to and worshipped in the language of the people.

I can't help but expand on what Oblio said since I think it is a wonderful illustration of the Church's desire to fulfill the Great Commission. The Orthodox Church has always strived to translated the Scriptures into the common tongue. When necessary, as with the Slavs and the some Alaskan cultures, the Church has created alphabets to allow the translation of the Scriptures.

[countrymousenc]

Welcome, HunterJon!

Oblio, Anonykat, and Eusebios have already given you a wealth of information, to which I really can't add anything valuable. Please forgive those who were less charitable, and ask all the questions you wish! You are welcome here.

If you're interested in learning more about how the Moravian Church (the Unitas Fratrum) traces her roots back to the Orthodox Church, I recommend the book Moravians in Europe and America: Hidden Seed and Harvest, by Chester Davis, c. Wachovia Historical Society. I'm sure you can order it through the Old Salem website:
http://www.oldsalem.org/ My copy only cost $5.95, purchased last fall. Or if you'd rather just ask questions, pm me and I'll try to find the answers.

We're always glad to be of service 'round here! :)

[Dismas]

Great questions.

Our core beliefs, or dogma, are expressed in the Nicene creed. Our church is also one of great Tradition...a tradition that is built upon the Holy Bible and the teachings of the Apostles passed on throughout the centuries by the church. We hold to the first 7 church councils since agreeing on doctrine is a key tenent of the church established in Acts 15.

There are also quite a lot of small t traditions, which are expressed within the Greek, Russian, Arabic, etc churches. The language is most often the language of the people. In the US, you will still find this true to a great extent....in Russian Orthodox churches, for example, you would expect to hear quite a lot of Russian...in the Antiochian churches however, much if not all the services are in english. No one uses Latin...since we are not Roman catholic.

If you would like to know more about the church, see my webpage http://orthotracts.org or many other fine examples at http://oca.org http://goarch.org or http://antiochian.org.

Peace,
Dismas

[HunterJon]

Thank you all very much for your answers.

[Matthias]

You are welcome.

[Victrixa]

Hi!

I was wondering, does the Orthodox Church teach that salvation is by faith only or by faith and works, as is thaught by the Catholic Church? And is there a specific leader to the Orthodox Church? Or are the leaders the Patriarchs (spelling?)? Who are the Patriarchs?

I realize that these questions must have been asked a zillion times. I didn't notice if you have some 'stickies' on the main teachings of the Orthodox Church... If you don't, well, I suggest you do so, as in OBOB? (just a suggestion ;) )

I am interested in reading the websites which have been linked here (and which explain the Orthodox faith) and will take the time to do so as I am quite intrigued and curious about Orthodoxy. :)

Thank you so much!

Pax Christi,

Caroline

[Victrixa]

Bruncvik you said:

The Orthodox Church and the Catholic Church were the same until 1054 AD when Rome split from "us" and became it's own denomination over time with new practices, new dogma, new doctrine, the central authority, the mass in LATIN ONLY , all property in europe owned by the vatican, etc etc.

What are the new practices, the new dogma and the new doctrines of the Catholic Church? Is it possible for you (or anyone else), to give me a list of the latter? I would very much like to know what these new 'inventions' or 'additions' are! I am very serious. I am seriously seeking answers lately.

Thank you sooo much in advance!

God bless you all!

Caroline

[Orthosdoxa]

The immaculate conception comes to mind. And of course, what made the doctrine of the IC necessary were issues that never even existed in the east.

I don't know much about the RCC, though, so I'll leave most of the answering of this to those who do.

[Orthosdoxa]

And btw Caroline - welcome to TAW. :)

Please do read the links on my web page - I hope you find them helpful. (stienekel.tripod.com)

[Matthias]

Exactly what Anonykat said. :)

[MariaRegina]

Bruncvik you said:



What are the new practices, the new dogma and the new doctrines of the Catholic Church? Is it possible for you (or anyone else), to give me a list of the latter? I would very much like to know what these new 'inventions' or 'additions' are! I am very serious. I am seriously seeking answers lately.

Thank you sooo much in advance!

God bless you all!

Caroline

The new dogmas and practices of the Latin Church are:

1870 Dogmas of Papal Infallibility and Papal Supremacy
Immaculate Conception
Purgatory
Use of Unleavened Bread
Mandatory Celibacy
The Filioque addition to the Nicene Creed

Welcome to TAW

Yours in Christ our Risen Lord,

Elizabeth

P.s. The recent change in the words of institution at the Novus Ordo Mass (from "many" to "all") doesn't help the situation either. "All" is not scriptural.

[Victrixa]

Thanks for the replies! :)

Elizabeth and everyone else,


The new dogmas and practices of the Latin Church are:

1870 Dogmas of Papal Infallibility and Papal Supremacy
Immaculate Conception
Purgatory
Use of Unleavened Bread
Mandatory Celibacy
The Filioque addition to the Nicene Creed

Does the Orthodox Church believe that Mary was sinful, though ever-virgin? I know you believe in the Dormancy - is that the right word? (RC:Assumption) But not in Mary's sinlessness? Mary would have sinned?

The Orthodox Church doesn't teach on the Purgatory? There is no such place or condition after the death of Christians?

Priests can marry?

The Filioque - that is, that the Holy Spirit was sent by the Father and not by the Son?

By the way, I am reading one of the websites on Orthodoxy which was linked here - I don't remember by whom - www.fatheralexander.com. It is sooo interesting! :) Another one - the Orthodox baptize by immersion following a conversion? Are babies just 'presented' to the Lord?

I am really interested to have answers to my above questions. I am very impressed by the icons also. Seem more realistic than statues... (that's just me)

Oh... as I read in the above website, is the 'story of Mary' recognized as a proven historical fact? (that Mary lived in the temple since the age of three, made a vow of virginity to God, at 14 had to get out to get married, according to Jewish Law, Joseph being 80 years + had her taken in his care, etc.) It makes sense, anyways...

Did St. Luke really paint Mary's portrait? (icon) Even Jesus' perhaps? What's remarkable is how the Orthodox icons of Jesus resemble the man on the shroud of Turin... hmmmm What do you think?

I know that I am bombarding you all with a million questions, lol, but I want to know!!! I think your faith is beautiful!

Anyone who wishes to respond to this or that question, or all of them!!!

Love in Christ,

Caroline :hug:

[NewToLife]

I'll answer some of these questions but cannot answer all.

Does the Orthodox Church believe that Mary was sinful, though ever-virgin?

We Orthodox do not believe that Mary was sinful, we do not however accept the immaculate conception which for us is not necessary as we do not believe that mankind inherits the guilt of the fall, only the consequences. Our sins grow out of our weakness which is death, Orthodox hold that Mary died and therefore was not exempted from the consequences of the fall, nevertheless she did not sin.

The Orthodox Church doesn't teach on the Purgatory? There is no such place or condition after the death of Christians?

I believe that there is indeed a purification of the soul and that this takes place in life as well as after death and that might be seen as similar to the concept of purgatory, however it isnt so named.

Priests can marry?

Yes but bishops must be monastics.

[Kripost]

Does the Orthodox Church believe that Mary was sinful, though ever-virgin? I know you believe in the Dormancy - is that the right word? (RC:Assumption) But not in Mary's sinlessness? Mary would have sinned?

I believe what you are thinking of is Immaculate Conception. Because the doctrine of Immaculate Conception is closely related to the doctrine of Original Sin, and the concept of Original Sin as held by the Orthodox is different. Thus, from the Orthodox viewpoint, at best, the doctrine of Immaculate Conception is unnecesary, and at worst, well..... (let's just say the description is rather unpleasant).

Having said that, the Orthodox Church calls Mary 'All-Holy' (Panagia). Veneration of Mary is very much evident when you read through a liturgy booklet for the Orthodox Liturgy.

By the way, the word is Dormition


The Orthodox Church doesn't teach on the Purgatory? There is no such place or condition after the death of Christians?

I am still not clear about the Orthodox teachings on the afterlife. Sorry, can't help much there...


Priests can marry?

In the Orthodox Church, there are married priests, but priests cannot marry. This means that once a man is ordained, his maritial status must remain as it is.


The Filioque - that is, that the Holy Spirit was sent by the Father and not by the Son?

It refers to the origin of the Holy Spirit before the world was created, not the coming of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost. The more correct word would be 'proceed from' not 'sent by'.

[Nickolai]

Does the Orthodox Church believe that Mary was sinful, though ever-virgin? I know you believe in the Dormancy - is that the right word? (RC:Assumption) But not in Mary's sinlessness? Mary would have sinned?

No, she never sinned. But the doctrine of the Immaculate conception is not needed for us because the only reson it exists is because the West believed that Adam and eves guilt was passed on to us. Meaning She couldn't bear Christ if she was sinfull. The east never held that we inherited the Guilt from the first sin, So it's kind of dumb for an Orthodox person to believe in the Immaculate conception.

The Orthodox Church doesn't teach on the Purgatory? There is no such place or condition after the death of Christians?

We don't believe in Purgatory. Many Orhtodox believe in toll houses. But that's a different thread all-together. Maybe someone more familiar with Blessed Father Seraphim Rose's writings can elaborate on toll houses a bit

Priests can marry?

They can marry before ordination. But not when they are ordained. This makes sense because you don't want a priest out going to clubs looking for a wife when he is supposed to be tending a flock.

The Filioque - that is, that the Holy Spirit was sent by the Father and not by the Son?

The original creed said the same thing as now but without "and from the son in the part about the Holy Spirit.

By the way, I am reading one of the websites on Orthodoxy which was linked here - I don't remember by whom - www.fatheralexander.com. It is sooo interesting! :) Another one - the Orthodox baptize by immersion following a conversion? Are babies just 'presented' to the Lord?

That's a great website. A lot of info on there. Orthodox Baptize by immertion three times for the Father, Son , and Holy Spirit. and then Anoint with Chrism. The same thing with Babies.

I am really interested to have answers to my above questions. I am very impressed by the icons also. Seem more realistic than statues... (that's just me)

They look more realistic because your looking into Heaven when you view an Icon.

Oh... as I read in the above website, is the 'story of Mary' recognized as a proven historical fact? (that Mary lived in the temple since the age of three, made a vow of virginity to God, at 14 had to get out to get married, according to Jewish Law, Joseph being 80 years + had her taken in his care, etc.) It makes sense, anyways...

It is recognised at truth. It's mostly from the Protevangelion of St. James. It was an early writing that was accepted as good for reading by the same people that canonized the Bible.

Did St. Luke really paint Mary's portrait? (icon) Even Jesus' perhaps? What's remarkable is how the Orthodox icons of Jesus resemble the man on the shroud of Turin... hmmmm What do you think?

St. Luke did, in fact write the first Icon of the Theotokos. I think that since Christians have depicted Christ in images from the first century that it's not a surprise that we know what He looked like.

I know that I am bombarding you all with a million questions, lol, but I want to know!!! I think your faith is beautiful!

I myself love questions. It's nice to see someone intrested in Orthodoxy.

Anyone who wishes to respond to this or that question, or all of them!!!

Love in Christ,

Caroline :hug:

Ask more questions if you have them. Or if you want the others elaborated on more.

[Dismas]

There are some free downloads on my website that may interest all of you with questions. They are streaming audio radio broadcasts on basic Orthodox beliefs using Windows Media Player.

http://orthotracts.org/ACORN/acorn.html

I have also begun creating audio files of my computer reading some significant early writings of the saints.

http://www.orthotracts.org/saints.html

Peace,
Dismas

[Eusebios]

Caroline,
Nothing really to add, just wanted to say Hi and welcome to TAW! :wave:
The others have done a wonderful job on the questions, but keep 'em coming, we love it!
His unworthy servant,
Eusebios.
:bow:

[Matthias]

You are welcome. They were great questions.