non lutheran christian fixation on a one world order or government

[rockytrails]

is this fixation on a one word order or Government part of baptist or modern evangelical theology?

why are they so alarmed? does it realy matter if we have several governments that persecute christians or just one?

just kinda strange hearing some southern baptist's talk about this stuff as if all christians should be alarmed.

I kinda feel left behind.:cry:

[RevCowboy]

To be honest I have no idea. I think its some strange interpretation of the Revelation of John. Revelation was written to be an encourage Christians being persecuted under the Romans. The point is that God is in control in the end and will one day right all wrong in world. The particularities should not concern us more than the point.

To be honest, as this kind of theology is relatively new to Christianity, I consider it liberal gobbledygook. I am sure that would really annoy those left behind guys. This is one occasion where you do want to be left behind.

[porterross]

Puzzling, ain't it?

[DaSeminarian]

is this fixation on a one word order or Government part of baptist or modern evangelical theology?

why are they so alarmed? does it realy matter if we have several governments that persecute christians or just one?

just kinda strange hearing some southern baptist's talk about this stuff as if all christians should be alarmed.

I kinda feel left behind.:cry:


Funny thing is it is not just the Baptists. There are Lutherans who are buying into this as well. Before I came back to the Lutheran Church, I had read almost all of the Left Behind books. The original series has 12 books and I read 11. I never read the 12th book because I had begun to realize how really off the "narrow path" they are. The last book is titled "The Glorious Appearing" The title itself said that they were waiting for Christ to come back and show himself in his glory. I didn't want them to tell me how they thought it was going to be so I refuse to read it or any other books by Jerry Jenkins and Tim LaHaye.

LaHaye is a kook as far as I am concerned.

[Till]

LaHaye is a kook as far as I am concerned.

I think he is a very talented business man. A marketing genius.

Oh and there are many non-Lutherans who do not buy that nonsense but hold an amilleanist view of eschatology. I attend a baptist church but our pastor tells us to regard the LEft Behind books as fiction.Nothing else.

[RadMan]

What is inevitable is inevitable. I have perused through a lot of material for years on these subjects like the Tri-lateral Commision, Bilderburgers, Masonictic order, Conucil for Foreign Relations, Green Banks and how they tie in with governments to facilitate a new world order.

Who knows if this info is correct. The main concern is to spread the paranoia or fear. Fear of everything is on many people's minds in this era. Fear of government, climate, eastern influence, war's, morality, personal safety. This prompts people to want the government to protect them more and have more government influence in their lives. I digress somewhat but the main point is FEAR. It keeps us focused on issues that are of questionable importance. How fear is used to develop certain patterns of thought in people on how their governments and special concerns can keep them under control with laws and more laws.............and fear.

[maylor]

.....the main point is FEAR. It keeps us focused on issues that are of questionable importance. How fear is used to develop certain patterns of thought in people on how their governments and special concerns can keep them under control with laws and more laws.............and fear.


Interesting point, and I agree.

[IowaLutheran]

I never read the 12th book because I had begun to realize how really off the "narrow path" they are. The last book is titled "The Glorious Appearing" The title itself said that they were waiting for Christ to come back and show himself in his glory. I didn't want them to tell me how they thought it was going to be so I refuse to read it or any other books by Jerry Jenkins and Tim LaHaye.



But you're missing out on the part where Jesus speaks and people either explode, melt, or disentegrate!

(I didn't read the whole book, but I had read an article about it, so I skimmed through it at the local library to see if that kind of violence was really in there - it was).

[Lupinus]

I don't know where it all comes from. But when it comes to the anti-Christ many think it will be one specific man, hence he will be leading one specific government .

As to the Left Behind series I've never read them but I don't hold them in any more or less regard then any other work of fiction.

[RadMan]

is this fixation on a one word order or Government part of baptist or modern evangelical theology?

why are they so alarmed? does it realy matter if we have several governments that persecute christians or just one?

just kinda strange hearing some southern baptist's talk about this stuff as if all christians should be alarmed.

I kinda feel left behind.:cry:

I'm not sure a work of fiction like "Left Behind" would address the theme of one world government which the OP has mentioned. I think there are more factual possibilities than some figment of "reformed " person's mind.

[Radiata]

Christians should be both alarmed, fearful, and apprehensive of it. The one world government will definitely happen and it isn't far off. The United Nations, World Trade Organization, and other groups are already in the beginning phases of the formation of a one world government. We now have the technology, transportation, and the proglobalization media necessary to bring in the one world government. And when this happens, the Antichrist will appear and place himself as the head of the world. The increasing terrorist threat and the middle east conflict will only speed up the formation of this governing body as fear and promises of better security make more people willing to give up their national sovereignty for global governance.

[Melethiel]

And assuming that a one-world government happens (which isn't very likely anytime soon - world politics is currently too polarized among cultural groups), why should we be frightened of it? If anything, the world is less united than it was 50 years ago.

*runs off to find GCC* Calling politics major...

[maylor]

Christians should be both alarmed, fearful, and apprehensive of it. The one world government will definitely happen and it isn't far off. The United Nations, World Trade Organization, and other groups are already in the beginning phases of the formation of a one world government. We now have the technology, transportation, and the proglobalization media necessary to bring in the one world government. And when this happens, the Antichrist will appear and place himself as the head of the world. The increasing terrorist threat and the middle east conflict will only speed up the formation of this governing body as fear and promises of better security make more people willing to give up their national sovereignty for global governance.

All of this may be true. My problem is with Republicans who think/claim they can prevent it. As Christians we need fear nothing , save God.

[Izdaari]

I have heard not one word about politics or world government from anybody in my churches' leadership (Assembly of God), and that's the way I like it. IMHO church should focus on our relationship with God, not our relationship with our temporal rulers. Of course, the subject might be relevant, and maybe even unavoidable, if we get a lesson on certain chapters of Revelations, but it hasn't come up since I've been attending.

[Edial]

One world government is a goal of our world to get back to it's original state as it was at the tower of Babel.

In it's natural sinful state, such a government will promote peace among itself, yet wage war against God.

Thanks,
Ed

[Studeclunker]

Actually, this is an old concept with the 'secular' population as well. Has anyone here read 1984? All the facilities and technology are in place for this 'Big Brother' establishment to exist. So, is the 'One World Order' just an idea of religious fanatics? Not really.

By the by, Rad, excellent point. Politicians love the bait and switch routine. If they don't like the voting public knowing what's happening, they divert the public's eye with a side show.

[Radiata]

I'm not sure a work of fiction like "Left Behind" would address the theme of one world government which the OP has mentioned. I think there are more factual possibilities than some figment of "reformed " person's mind.
My pastor, who has written a few books, has said that no one would be interested if he worte a "Left Until" series.:D

[DaSeminarian]

Actually, this is an old concept with the 'secular' population as well. Has anyone here read 1984? All the facilities and technology are in place for this 'Big Brother' establishment to exist. So, is the 'One World Order' just an idea of religious fanatics? Not really.

By the by, Rad, excellent point. Politicians love the bait and switch routine. If they don't like the voting public knowing what's happening, they divert the public's eye with a side show.

In a sense, I think the premise of 1984 is being lived out to some extent right now. The technology we have and what the government is doing with proves that. We may not be one-world order, but didn't Bush allow phones to be tapped after 9/11 with the excuse that they were trying to track down Al Qaeda people.

How do we know that there isn't a dossier on just about every adult in the country on some computer chip somewhere?

Man is sinful and will use technology any which way he can to get ahead.

[Studeclunker]

How do we know that there isn't a dossier on just about every adult in the country on some computer chip somewhere?

Man is sinful and will use technology any which way he can to get ahead.

A valid point that. However, I spent twenty plus years in Data Processing and the government isn't capable of keeping dossiers on the entire adult population of the United States. The storage and seek capability for such a database is beyond our current capacity. Still... technology keeps marching on, eh?:eek:

[Tofferer]

LaHaye is a kook as far as I am concerned.


While I may agree with you, I would dare you to tell his former congregation at Scott Memorial in San Diego that. I first expressed my reservations about the rapture there and slowly began to find myself cut-off. Trust me, LaHaye has deceived millions into believing an escapist doctrine that has no support in scripture.

On a related note, I recently read the book "Survivors" by a guy who called himself Zion Ben Jonah. I guess his organization is called Jesus Christians. I haven't made a full assesment of his organization, but his book does a fair job of refuting LaHaye/Jenkins.

[gtmyers]

Alot of other groups do indeed play on peoples fears. It can be dangerous. Look at Jim Jones in the 70's. I'm just glad Lutherans are not like that.

[Tofferer]

Sadly, this is the type of thing I must cope with every monday night in class. I am, near as I can tell, the only Lutheran in my school. It seems to me that everyone in class has been deceived into believing the teachings of LaHaye and Lindsey (Late Great Planet Earth). The simple truth is that everything taught by them is based upon some poor philosophy and very little scripture. Indeed, the question I want them to answer is this: How many trumpets are there after the last trumpet? Truthfully, none. Of course don't tell that to those who believe in a pretrib rapture followed by a one world government. LaHaye has deceived millions and continues to do so. Will there be a single government dominating the world in the future? Probably. Should we be worried? No. What we should be doing is sharing the gospel and doing that which we would want our Lord to find us doing upon his return.

[DaRev]

The future "one world government" will be reigned by Christ Himself when He returns.

[gtmyers]

This pre-trib stuff is strongly rooted with the baptists. They are proponets of this. Its hard for me also. Being from the south, so many freinds and family members are baptist or even worse, the non-denominational which has very shallow roots. The ND folks are mostly from baptist or baptist like faiths anyhow. Although I have noticed alot of people who leave the Lutheran Church switch to a ND church. Hopefully these churches will not continue to draw from other long standing historic churches like they do. One church advertised on our local paper, "Tired of forms and rituals?" come here for true bible teaching straight from Gods Word the KJV 1611. Then another I saw said "Come as you are, nothing expected of you, just your presence." Thses seem so shallow and weak. What do you guys think?

[NewGuy101]

US reformed peps are weirded out TOOs. :|

[Melethiel]

Coming from a baptigelical background, I can say from experience...they are VERY shallow.

[NewGuy101]

This pre-trib stuff is strongly rooted with the baptists. They are proponets of this. Its hard for me also. Being from the south, so many freinds and family members are baptist or even worse, the non-denominational which has very shallow roots. The ND folks are mostly from baptist or baptist like faiths anyhow. Although I have noticed alot of people who leave the Lutheran Church switch to a ND church. Hopefully these churches will not continue to draw from other long standing historic churches like they do. One church advertised on our local paper, "Tired of forms and rituals?" come here for true bible teaching straight from Gods Word the KJV 1611. Then another I saw said "Come as you are, nothing expected of you, just your presence." Thses seem so shallow and weak. What do you guys think?
Pre trib stuff is strongly based on dispensationalism. It picked up when isreal was re-instated after WWII and everyone thought the end was near.

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

Classic dispensationalists believe that the 'this generation' comment in Mark 13 (et al.) which will see the coming of the Son of Man refers to the generation that sees the reestablishment of the nation of Israel.

Since ethnic Israel was reestablished in 1948, they think the rapture and the second coming have to come before a generation is up. Of course, they originally said a biblical generation is forty years, but when 1988 passed and narry a soul was sucked up in the heavenly vacuum cleaner, they tried to redefine it.

Said said they were wrong about the year, and the countdown actually began when Israel took Jerusalem in the Yom Kippur War in 1967. Others said a generation was 100 years.

Well, 2007 passed and nothing happened, so 1967+40 obviously wasn't it (that, by the way, is the reason Pat Robertson didn't run this election cycle- he thought it was all over, anyway). So some people say it's 1948+100, so 2048. Others say it is 1967+100, so 2067.

In any case, that puts a maximum date for the rapture in 2067, at least for any classic dispensationalist. Thus, they all feel they need to be prepared for the rise of the antichrist, because his rise in imminent.

Dumb, I know. But that's the thinking.

[Melethiel]

Heavenly vacuum cleaner? That gives rise to some very amusing mental pictures. ^_^

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

P.S. Where do the bodies in the rapture go?

Heaven isn't a spatial location, so unless their bodies are transported seven years into the future, it seems just the souls should go up into heaven.

Which would make for a much more interesting novel, as hundreds of millions of people would suddenly drop dead.

[Melethiel]

P.S. Where do the bodies in the rapture go?

Heaven isn't a spatial location, so unless their bodies are transported seven years into the future, it seems just the souls should go up into heaven.

Which would make for a much more interesting novel, as hundreds of millions of people would suddenly drop dead.
There have been people bodily assumed to heaven before...Enoch, Elijah, Christ himself...

[Tofferer]

Heavenly vacuum cleaner? That gives rise to some very amusing mental pictures. ^_^
It makes me wonder what brand God would use. I think a Dirt Devil is unlikely though.

[DaRev]

There have been people bodily assumed to heaven before...Enoch, Elijah, Christ himself...

Heaven is a spatial location, but in a sense that we cannot understand.

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

It makes me wonder what brand God would use. I think a Dirt Devil is unlikely though.
Ha!