Any Moravians Out There?

[HunterJon]

I can't be the only one can I?

[JVAC]

I can't be the only one can I?
I believe you are, but you are among friends! I would like to welcome you to the Forum!! I think you will add a greatly distinct point of view on the discussions here! I hope you stick around fellowship and edify us about the Moravians our very close brethren!

-James

[HunterJon]

Thanks for the warm welcome JVAC. This seems like a great sub-forum so I'll be spending a good deal of time over hear.

[Rechtgläubig]

Hello and welcome HunterJon! :wave:

[ChiRho]

The Moravian Church has stood for basic religious principles for more then 500 years. Through these years the church has often put into written form the precepts of its faith and practice in what is known as the "Covenant for Christian Living."

Moravians recognize the example of Christ's life and proclaim that Jesus Christ is Lord. Living the Christian life depends not only on our own effort, but upon God our Father, who in Jesus Christ accepts us as heirs of God and strengthens and sustains us. In baptism we are united with Christ in his death and resurrection, so we have died to sin and should walk in newness of life. We realize that our Christian faith must continually be nourished if it is to remain living and vital. Therefore, we desire to grow in our Christian lives through family devotions, personal prayer and study, and the opportunities for spiritual development offered by the Church.

We deem it a sacred responsibility and genuine opportunity to be faithful stewards of all God has entrusted to us: our time, our talents, and our financial resources. We view all of life as a sacred trust to be used wisely.

Realizing that God has called us from many and varied backgrounds, we recognize the possibility of disagreements or differences. Often these differences enrich the Church, but sometimes they divide. We consider it to be our responsibility to demonstrate within the congregational life the unity and togetherness created by God who made us one. How well we accomplish this will be a witness to our community as to the validity of our faith.

Moravians support collegial experiences with children of God in other Christian churches, and carefully avoid all disputes, respecting opinions and ceremonies peculiar to one or another Church. We recognize that through the grace of Christ different denominations have received many gifts and that the Church of Christ may be enriched by these many and varied contributions. It is our desire that we may learn from one another and rejoice together in the riches of the love of Christ and the manifold wisdom of God. We welcome every step that brings us nearer the goal of unity in Him. In this fellowship we cooperate with other churches in the support of public charities or Christian enterprises, which have a just claim upon us as followers of the Lord Jesus Christ.


A BASIC MOTTO
In accepting other creeds of the Christian Church (such as the Apostles' Creed, Nicene Creed, the Augsburg Confession) and in its practice, the Moravian Church has always stood by its motto: "In essentials, unity; in nonessentials, liberty; and in all things, love."


THE SACRAMENTS
The Moravian Church recognized the sacraments of baptism and of holy communion. The usual mode of baptism is sprinkling and the church administers the sacrament in the name of the Triune God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit). In the case of infant baptism, the sacrament carries with it the responsibility of parents, child and congregation. Through baptism the individual receives a pledge of the forgiveness of sin and admission into the covenant of God through the blood of Christ. Children may be baptized as a sign and pledge to them of the promise of Christ that theirs "is the kingdom of Heaven." Youth and adults confirm their baptismal covenant or are received by adult baptism when they make a profession of faith.

In respect to the sacrament of holy communion, the Moravian Church does not try to define the mystery of Christ's presence in the communion elements, but recognizes that the believer participates in a unique act of covenant with Christ as Savior and with other believers in Christ. The Moravian service of holy communion is a service of praise and prayer (with hymns being sung as the elements are distributed to all communicants); of fellowship (with the right hand of fellowship extended at the beginning and close of the service); and of special covenant with Christ and with each other.

Design ©2004 Black Box. Contents © 2001-2004 The Moravian Church in North America


I pasted this from the Moravian Church of North America website. I think that some of the issues are sort of vague. Could you eloborate on the key points a lttle, HunterJon?

Is Holy Baptism regarded as a symbol in your church? What about Holy Communion...Real Physical Presence? Synergistic Justification or Sanctification? (see my post in the Roman Church vs. the Lutheran Church thread)

Pax Christi,

ChiRho

[HunterJon]

Is Holy Baptism regarded as a symbol in your church? What about Holy Communion?

Baptism: It is a symbol of being brought into the kingdom of God.
Communion: We view communion as a way of renewing our faith and rembering the sacrifice Christ made.

Real Physical Presence: We believe in real physical presence as far as I know.

Synergistic Justification or Sanctification?

This has never really been discussed at my church but by viewing your definitions and relating them to the things we do and believe, I'm gonna have to go with sanctification.

Hopefully I answered these decently enough, I was a little confused on the symbol question. At my church we never really get into the questions like you just asked so you'll have to forgive my ignorance on the topics.

[ChiRho]

Is Holy Baptism regarded as a symbol in your church? What about Holy Communion?

Baptism: It is a symbol of being brought into the kingdom of God.
Communion: We view communion as a way of renewing our faith and rembering the sacrifice Christ made.

Real Physical Presence: We believe in real physical presence as far as I know.

Synergistic Justification or Sanctification?

This has never really been discussed at my church but by viewing your definitions and relating them to the things we do and believe, I'm gonna have to go with sanctification.

Hopefully I answered these decently enough, I was a little confused on the symbol question. At my church we never really get into the questions like you just asked so you'll have to forgive my ignorance on the topics.


Brother,

I am having a time finding any clear doctrine of your Church. If you know of a source, I would love to read over it. From what I could gather, I would have to agree that your church believes in Synergistic Sanctification. Unfortunately this stands in opposition with Lutheranism.

Pax Christi,

ChiRho

[HunterJon]

When i said sanctification, I didn't mean synergistic sanctification. I must have gotten confused reading the catholic post you mentioned. I mixed up the Lutheran Sanctification and Synergistic Sanctification parts. We believe that we are saved by God's grace alone, not by our own acts or by our own initiative. This is fairly difficult for me to talk about because in my church we really don't discuss church dogma or doctrine, we mainly stick to worshiping and service. I'm sorry I can't be of more help to you. One of the problems when it comes to church doctrine in the Moravian Church is that the provinces have a tendency to do their own thing. For instance in the Southern Province down in the southeast U.S., there have been fights over wheter Jesus is the only way to heaven. The rest of us up in the Northern Province think these people have gone off their rockers. That, and the Moravian Church really doesn't like to take a stand on anything controversial, for instance homosexuality. My church is quite conservative and very close to the Lutheran denomination in it's thinking. For a more clear cut view of things you might try to find some webpages for the specific provinces of the Moravian Church. I really don't know what is there because again, we never really talk about "Moravian Doctrine" per se. I am truly sorry I can not be of more help to you, other than to say that, at least in my church, we close enougth to the Lutherans and Methodists in my area that I really can't tell the difference, and neither can any of my friends for that matter.

[countrymousenc]

Hi HunterJon, and welcome to CF. :)

I'm originally from Winston-Salem, NC, and had many Moravian friends while I was growing up. Still like to visit Old Salem, too.

Do keep on visiting the Lutheran forum - there are so many nice people paricipating! Please also feel welcome to check out TAW (yes, a shameless plug - don't tell Lotar!); Moravians trace their roots back to the Orthodox Church. (Did my homework ;) )

Enjoy!

[ChiRho]

Moravians recognize the example of Christ's life and proclaim that Jesus Christ is Lord. Living the Christian life depends not only on our own effort, but upon God our Father, who in Jesus Christ accepts us as heirs of God and strengthens and sustains us. In baptism we are united with Christ in his death and resurrection, so we have died to sin and should walk in newness of life. We realize that our Christian faith must continually be nourished if it is to remain living and vital. Therefore, we desire to grow in our Christian lives through family devotions, personal prayer and study, and the opportunities for spiritual development offered by the Church.


From this statement and from your previous post, I gathered that you believed in Synergistic Sanctification. This statement must be from one of those poor churches, that have fallen off of their rockers!

Pax Christi,

ChiRho

[Rechtgläubig]

From what I could gather, I would have to agree that your church believes in Synergistic Sanctification. Unfortunately this stands in opposition with Lutheranism.

Pax Christi,

ChiRhoChirho, can you define Sanctification please? The way I understand the term, it does fall in line with Lutheranism. :scratch:

How are you using it?


Thanks!

:D

[ChiRho]

In its explanation of Luther's Small Catechism, the LCMS states the following concerning sanctification: "The Holy Spirit sanctifies me (makes me holy) by bringing me to faith in Christ, so that I might have the blessings of redemption and lead a godly life." The LCMS further explains that the term "sanctification" is used in two ways, in a more general sense to refer to "the whole work of the Holy Spirit by which He brings us to faith and also enables us to lead a godly life," and in a more restricted sense to refer to "that part of the Holy Spirit's work by which he directs and empowers the believer to lead a godly life" (see 1 Cor. 6:11).

This definition. Sorry for the confusion.

Pax Christi,

ChiRho

[Rechtgläubig]

It is OK ChiRho, :D

That's why I was asking for clarification.


Synergism:
Whatever synergism there is, in the proper sense of the term, follows conversion and is a result of God's monergism in man's conversion

Sanctification:
In a narrow sense, sanctification is the spiritual growth (1 Co 3:9; 9:24; Eph 4:15; Ph 3:12) that follows justification (Mt 7:16–18; Jn 3:6; Eph 2:10). By God's grace (Gl 5:22–23; Ph 2:13) a Christian cooperates in this work (2 Co 6:1; 7:1; Ph 2:12; 1 Ti 4:14; FC (http://www.lcms.org/ca/www/cyclopedia/a/abbrev.html#ABBR.FC) SD (http://www.lcms.org/ca/www/cyclopedia/a/abbrev.html#ABBR.SD) II 65–66); through the Holy Spirit's work faith is increased daily, love strengthened, and the image of God renewed (cf. (http://www.lcms.org/ca/www/cyclopedia/a/abbrev.html#ABBR.CF), e.g. (http://www.lcms.org/ca/www/cyclopedia/a/abbrev.html#ABBR.EG), Jn 14:26; 16:13–14; Ro 6:15–23; 8:15–16, 26; 14:17; 15:13; 1 Co 12:7–11; Gl 5:16–18; 2 Ptr 3:18). A believer's good works are not perfect; but sins of weakness are forgiven (Jn 15:3). Sanctification differs in the same Christian at different times (Ro 7:14–19; Gl 2:11; 5:17; 1 Jn 1:8). http://www.lcms.org/ca/www/cyclopedia/

[ChiRho]

By God's grace (Gl 5:22–23; Ph 2:13) a Christian cooperates in this work

Living the Christian life depends not only on our own effort, but upon God our Father, who in Jesus Christ accepts us as heirs of God and strengthens and sustains us.


But is this to be understood, that sanctification or Christian Living, is dependant, or even co-dependant upon our own will? I guess I would want "depend, not only on our own" (from the Moravian statement) more clearly defined. As I understand, we do not act as equal partners, but our cooperation is to be understood rightly as strictly a passive, subordinate role.


Pax Christi,

ChiRho

[Rechtgläubig]

But is this to be understood, that sanctification or Christian Living, is dependant, or even co-dependant upon our own will? I guess I would want "depend, not only on our own" (from the Moravian statement) more clearly defined. As I understand, we do not act as equal partners, but our cooperation is to be understood rightly as strictly a passive, subordinate role.


Pax Christi,

ChiRhoI totally agree. :D

[JCis4Me]

Reply to HunterJon's post:

I am a Christian in WS NC. I happen to be a member of a Moravian Church in the Southern Province. I have to agree that a few people down have fallen off their rocker. Accepting Christ is the only way to heaven. I will send links to sites when I reach 15 posts. ybiC,
Ken

[SamInService]

I can't be the only one can I?

HunterJon--

Just so that you don't feel too alone, I was baptized as an adult in a Moravian church in Charlotte, NC. While I have since continued my Christian journey in other directions, I remain grateful for the kindness of the Moravian church. Moreover, I still recognize the pastor who baptized me as one of the finest Christian gentleman whom I have been honored to meet.

Thanks for the post!

Sam

[countrymousenc]

Reply to HunterJon's post:

I am a Christian in WS NC. I happen to be a member of a Moravian Church in the Southern Province. I have to agree that a few people down have fallen off their rocker. Accepting Christ is the only way to heaven. I will send links to sites when I reach 15 posts. ybiC,
Ken


Which church, JCis4Me? I grew up in WS! (But was Baptist, at that time, but knew several Moravians).

[JCis4Me]

I am a member at Olivet Moravian. I grew up going to Marshall Baptist Church in WSNC

[countrymousenc]

I don't recall knowing anyone who attended Olivet Moravian, but I did have friends at Bethania Moravian, Fairview Moravian, and New Philadelphia, and relatives who were (are) members at the church downtown that was the first daughter church established by Home Moravian (can't think of its name, though). I grew up going to Beck's Baptist (but that was a long time ago).