Alas for the charismatic renewal

[Simon_Templar]

I've been in the Charismatic Church for more than 30 years. I was born and raised in it.

In my time, I have seen the same things, over and over and over to the point at which I am sick of them. I can barely stand to even be around them anymore. I just read a thread, which need not be named, that has caused me to need to vent this, so here goes.

#1 - Motivation by fear. I have literally lost track of how many times in my life I, or my parents, or other family members have lost opportunities of all sorts, ranging from investment, to travel, etc, because we were constantly convinced that some disaster was about to strike, the economy was about to colapse, the end was about to come. The single biggest regret in my life is when I look back and see years of missed opportunities, years of not doing anything because of the spectre of impending doom. I can't remember a time in my life when there wasn't a prophecy coming forth about the impending doom and judgement on the horizon.

The real irony is that these prophecies, for the most part serve no useful purpose. What good is it really, to know that the country is about to collapse, the food supply is going to be contaminated, a nuclear war is going to happen, etc etc.. there is nothing you can do to prepare for things like that anyway. The only good that could possibly ever come of such pronouncements is that people be driven more to prayer, which pretty much doesn't happen anyway.
And that is a telling truth about the honesty/self deception of us charismatics. We will not buy land, not invest money, not go on a trip, because the economy is about to collapse, we will talk in hushsed tones about the coming russian invasion, but we won't devote ourselves to prayer or signficantly change our lifestyle.

that points out...

#2 - the complete phoniness of so much of the stuff we do. So much of the stuff that we devote our time to is nothing but ear tickling drivle, and our actions belie the fact that we truly know this.
We routinely give and or hear prophecies about this or thats going to happen, whether its a great move of God, or an impending judgement. We talk about whats going on "in the spiritual" and other similar nonsense, but nothing ever happens. And the reason nothing ever happens is because all the while, as we talk about this stuff, we never DO anything. We don't devote ourselves to prayer, we don't devote ourselves to serving the needs of others, we don't devote ourselves to loving each other, let alone the "least of these".

All our oooing, and ahhing about whats happening in "the spiritual" is just so much worthless crap because what may or may not be happening "in the spiritual" is irrelevant. It will never happen in the actual, until people start DOing, but the truth is people would rather talk, than do, because they are fake.
Why bother actually going to prayer, or actually pouring myself out for the needy, which is hard, when I can get all the tinglies and goose bumps by just talking about impending doom and the latest move "in the spiritual".

The worst part is that I have been just like that for most of my life.

[Tamara224]

Yep. I hear ya.

I'm sick to death of hearing about the next big revival that's going to happen this year. Oops. I mean next year. Or, maybe the year after that. Well, within the next five years. Make it ten.

[JAS4Yeshua]

I don't hear much about "revivals" or put much stock in any "prophetic dates." The only thing I know is that the time is drawing near. How near only God knows, and I refuse to put a length of time on it. Same goes for the churches I go to. We know that God could return at any moment, or he could wait longer. We live as if He would come today, but plan for living our full number of days. No fear of impending doom, no missing out on opportunities. Just glorifying God in all aspects of our lives. That includes reaching out to a lost and dying world, sowing seeds, and Lord willing, brining in a harvest.

[jeolmstead]

I agree Simon,

I'm trying to break out of that mold as well

John O.

[BenAdam]

Wow... ST. I could have written that myself. Now you know why we wanted this to the called the Post-Charismatic forum.

[lismore]

Yep. I hear ya.

I'm sick to death of hearing about the next big revival that's going to happen this year. Oops. I mean next year. Or, maybe the year after that. Well, within the next five years. Make it ten.

You mean I wasted my money going to all those 'Hungry for revival?' seminars?

:|

[KenBrauckmann]

the good thing is, I am not the only one who agrees Simon!

so... now what do we do about it?

[Andry]

Flight Simulator Syndrome
My son and I love playing the flight simulator on the PC....Sturmovik, Pacific Fighter, Lock On: Modern Air Combat, and of course the classic Flight Simulator series.

This relates to how many believers, charismatics included, have treated "church", because we have either lost or not come to an understanding of what the essence of the church of Jesus Christ is.

When we come to church, it’s a bit like getting into a flight simulator. When you get into the flight simulator, everything around you looks and feels, and experiences like the real thing – you know, we take off and we make our flight, and we can see on the screen everything that’s going on and, we have all the sights and the sounds and the sensations, the feelings, the motions, the actions, the reactions, dealt with all kinds of things, even a problem or two, but just like the flight simulator, when the flight simulator finishes its simulation around 12 o’clock Sunday morning, and you walk out the door you realize you haven’t actually gone anywhere. And we’ve got to stop having church whereby when we go out the door we haven’t actually gone anywhere.

So we need to stop the flight simulator thing and start getting on the real journey, where our lives start to impact our world. There has to come an awakening within us to understand the essence of what the church of Jesus Christ really is.

Luke 9-10 is a template for us getting on the real journey. Just IMHO.

[sebastian]

I don't get why people take this, I guess I'm lucky enough never to have had to deal with it myself, but if people are talking rubbish then why do you listen? I don't understand, what are the difficulties in standing up and saying something? social exclusion, being branded heretical or what?

And why do people still think russia will invade 20 years after the cold war ended?

sorry if i'm sounding critical, but this seems really important.

[Simon_Templar]

What do we do... a question I have been asking myself a lot lately.

I think the first step is to seek to know God more. One of the things that I've seen over and over again recently is how shallow our concept of "personal relationship" really is, and how little most of us really know God.

Most of what I have seen has been doubly true of me. For all our holy talk and all our fervor, we have not truly saught God's face, we have not come on his terms.

We have had passion for prophecy, passion for power, passion for tongues, passion for tears, passion for dancing, passion for doctrine, passion for prosperity, passion for glory, but not really passion for God himself, not passion for Jesus Christ.

There are many virtues that we are lacking and many sins that we indulge, especially those of pride and selfishness, and hatred towards our brothers which are abhorrent to God.
We must desire to be free of those things, as we begin to seek God, we must ask to have our eyes opened to see ourselves truly.
We can't generate the virtues we need, humility, love, faith. We can make a choice to be open to them, but they will only truly arise as we emmerse ourselves deeper into God.

More than just a friend, or even a Father, God must become our very life, the air that we breath, the blood that flows in our veins.

We need to begin to realize that God has things in hand. We need not worry, or be dismayed about what comes, no matter what it is because it is all in God's hand and he will work it all together for our good, even if it means suffering for us. We need to learn to rest in the peace of assured victory through Jesus Christ. No matter what comes.

Whenever I think about this and pray about this God impresses two words upon me, devotion and passion. Not for anything that we can get from God, or any experience we can have from God, but simply for God himself.
Devotion and Passion that drives us to seek God, even when there is no experience to be had, and he does not feel near.

I think we have to have knowledge of the King, before we can really preach the gospel of the kingdom. We need to become lamps, filled with light for people to see who can. The light is not doctrines and morals (though I would never comprimise those) but it is Jesus Christ himself.

[cyberlizard]

well i think this thread is probably the most realistic thread on the forum.

just before finding it, i was on the verge of posting a poll with the question, 'have you ever exagerrated your spirituality (things seen, heard and done) to make it look like you are more dynamic than you really are'.

i think i will, though i suspect no-one will own up.



Steve

[BenAdam]

well i think this thread is probably the most realistic thread on the forum.

just before finding it, i was on the verge of posting a poll with the question, 'have you ever exagerrated your spirituality (things seen, heard and done) to make it look like you are more dynamic than you really are'.

i think i will, though i suspect no-one will own up.



Steve
That would require a degree of transparency most of us would shudder to implement.

I'll start, yes I have exagerrated my spirituality, much to my shame. :(

[ReformedChapin]

I was saved in a charismatic church and then I went to a somewhat neo-charismatic church (calvary chapel). I really hate it when people state that "God revealed something to them." The question that comes to mind is HOW DO YOU KNOW? HOW DID HE reavel it to you? How do you know its not an emotional outburst? Now I am very careful/synical about these perspectives.

[cyberlizard]

That would require a degree of transparency most of us would shudder to implement.

I'll start, yes I have exagerrated my spirituality, much to my shame. :(


i bit the bullet and posted a poll on the SF/PC forum


Steve

[Simon_Templar]

I was saved in a charismatic church and then I went to a somewhat neo-charismatic church (calvary chapel). I really hate it when people state that "God revealed something to them." The question that comes to mind is HOW DO YOU KNOW? HOW DID HE reavel it to you? How do you know its not an emotional outburst? Now I am very careful/synical about these perspectives.
Hey :) good to see you. Its been a while.

Your caution is well deserved. I think God can and does reveal stuff to us, all the time actually. Its usually not some big fireworks show though. The Holy Spirit enlightens our mind and gives us the capability to understand, that is one of the most important kinds of revelations God gives us.

[Alpine]

I let the "fear" control me for a short time when I believed very strongly in the pre trib rapture. Around the time I graduated high school, some of my decisions were made with the sense we only had 5-10 years max left on earth. Those decisions really screwed me up royally. It took quite awhile to right the ship after I let the fear control my decisions.

[Simon_Templar]

I don't want to gossip, but I sort of feel that the anonymity of the internet gives me a way to get some things out, without mentioning names, or actually affecting the people in question negatively.

Last night I was in a charismatic meeting that was good for the most part. There were all sorts of words of knowledge and prophecies. There was also prayer for some people that involved a number of things that I think are unscriptural.
It was a good experience for me because God used it to help me get more to a point where I can strongly disagree with some of the things that these people say and do, but yet still realistically see them as people who love God and are trying to serve God, for the most part.

However, today I had to sit and listen to a few of the same people talking basically about how the meetings they have are the "true" Church and all the normal Church stuff is just men trying to control everything and it went from there into a laundry list of gossip about all of the people who they didn't feel were on par spiritually, and gossipping and cutting down people who they thought were against them, (usually based on rumors and second hand information) etc.

One issue in particular that distressed me, and angered me so much was that a couple of the people in the conversation had gone through some rejection and bad stuff recently, and there was a couple (a pastor and his wife) who reached out to them and really tried to minister to them etc, and they were sitting here talking about that pastor and how he just isn't up to par because he's not doing the right things in his Church and they know this person or that person who is giving a little more time to "get right" before they leave the Church (which they are eager for because they hope that when these people leave, they will come to the meetings that they are holding, which of course are the real Church).

I just don't know how much more of this I can take.

[Redheadedstepchild]

I don't want to gossip, but I sort of feel that the anonymity of the internet gives me a way to get some things out, without mentioning names, or actually affecting the people in question negatively.

Last night I was in a charismatic meeting that was good for the most part. There were all sorts of words of knowledge and prophecies. There was also prayer for some people that involved a number of things that I think are unscriptural.
It was a good experience for me because God used it to help me get more to a point where I can strongly disagree with some of the things that these people say and do, but yet still realistically see them as people who love God and are trying to serve God, for the most part.

However, today I had to sit and listen to a few of the same people talking basically about how the meetings they have are the "true" Church and all the normal Church stuff is just men trying to control everything and it went from there into a laundry list of gossip about all of the people who they didn't feel were on par spiritually, and gossipping and cutting down people who they thought were against them, (usually based on rumors and second hand information) etc.

One issue in particular that distressed me, and angered me so much was that a couple of the people in the conversation had gone through some rejection and bad stuff recently, and there was a couple (a pastor and his wife) who reached out to them and really tried to minister to them etc, and they were sitting here talking about that pastor and how he just isn't up to par because he's not doing the right things in his Church and they know this person or that person who is giving a little more time to "get right" before they leave the Church (which they are eager for because they hope that when these people leave, they will come to the meetings that they are holding, which of course are the real Church).

I just don't know how much more of this I can take.


That is frustrating, though I wanted to point out that kind of thing is not limited to charismatic churches. Bickering and in-fighting goes on everywhere. It's very discouraging to witness.

[KenBrauckmann]

nice to know we all have something in common.... :sigh:

I must have a faulty translation of the Bible... seems I read somewhere about loving one another?? I must have a mistranslation....

gotta be it...

I mean, all these other people in the 'true church' (cf ST's post) couldn't have missed the biggest part about BEING the cHURCH, could they????

[Izdaari]

I agree with Simon. That doesn't mean the spiritual gifts aren't real, powerful and important... but we often fail in "doing church" based on them. And truthfully, I don't think we are supposed to "do church" based on them: knowing God is what it's all about, and the gifts are but one means to serve Him.

[MrSnow]

I agree with Simon. That doesn't mean the spiritual gifts aren't real, powerful and important... but we often fail in "doing church" based on them. And truthfully, I don't think we are supposed to "do church" based on them: knowing God is what it's all about, and the gifts are but one means to serve Him.

I wonder if you realize how outstanding that is what you just said.

[Mathetes the kerux]

I've been in the Charismatic Church for more than 30 years. I was born and raised in it.

In my time, I have seen the same things, over and over and over to the point at which I am sick of them. I can barely stand to even be around them anymore. I just read a thread, which need not be named, that has caused me to need to vent this, so here goes.

#1 - Motivation by fear. I have literally lost track of how many times in my life I, or my parents, or other family members have lost opportunities of all sorts, ranging from investment, to travel, etc, because we were constantly convinced that some disaster was about to strike, the economy was about to colapse, the end was about to come. The single biggest regret in my life is when I look back and see years of missed opportunities, years of not doing anything because of the spectre of impending doom. I can't remember a time in my life when there wasn't a prophecy coming forth about the impending doom and judgement on the horizon.

The real irony is that these prophecies, for the most part serve no useful purpose. What good is it really, to know that the country is about to collapse, the food supply is going to be contaminated, a nuclear war is going to happen, etc etc.. there is nothing you can do to prepare for things like that anyway. The only good that could possibly ever come of such pronouncements is that people be driven more to prayer, which pretty much doesn't happen anyway.
And that is a telling truth about the honesty/self deception of us charismatics. We will not buy land, not invest money, not go on a trip, because the economy is about to collapse, we will talk in hushsed tones about the coming russian invasion, but we won't devote ourselves to prayer or signficantly change our lifestyle.

that points out...

#2 - the complete phoniness of so much of the stuff we do. So much of the stuff that we devote our time to is nothing but ear tickling drivle, and our actions belie the fact that we truly know this.
We routinely give and or hear prophecies about this or thats going to happen, whether its a great move of God, or an impending judgement. We talk about whats going on "in the spiritual" and other similar nonsense, but nothing ever happens. And the reason nothing ever happens is because all the while, as we talk about this stuff, we never DO anything. We don't devote ourselves to prayer, we don't devote ourselves to serving the needs of others, we don't devote ourselves to loving each other, let alone the "least of these".

All our oooing, and ahhing about whats happening in "the spiritual" is just so much worthless crap because what may or may not be happening "in the spiritual" is irrelevant. It will never happen in the actual, until people start DOing, but the truth is people would rather talk, than do, because they are fake.
Why bother actually going to prayer, or actually pouring myself out for the needy, which is hard, when I can get all the tinglies and goose bumps by just talking about impending doom and the latest move "in the spiritual".

The worst part is that I have been just like that for most of my life.
Yeah man.

This has continually been an issue for me as well. Makes me sick. The arm with the "power" has been marginalized by the enemy with goosebumps.

Drift from sound doctrine mixed with sound experience.

[DiamondT]

I've been in the Charismatic Church for more than 30 years. I was born and raised in it.

In my time, I have seen the same things, over and over and over to the point at which I am sick of them. I can barely stand to even be around them anymore. I just read a thread, which need not be named, that has caused me to need to vent this, so here goes.

#1 - Motivation by fear. I have literally lost track of how many times in my life I, or my parents, or other family members have lost opportunities of all sorts, ranging from investment, to travel, etc, because we were constantly convinced that some disaster was about to strike, the economy was about to colapse, the end was about to come. The single biggest regret in my life is when I look back and see years of missed opportunities, years of not doing anything because of the spectre of impending doom. I can't remember a time in my life when there wasn't a prophecy coming forth about the impending doom and judgement on the horizon.

The real irony is that these prophecies, for the most part serve no useful purpose. What good is it really, to know that the country is about to collapse, the food supply is going to be contaminated, a nuclear war is going to happen, etc etc.. there is nothing you can do to prepare for things like that anyway. The only good that could possibly ever come of such pronouncements is that people be driven more to prayer, which pretty much doesn't happen anyway.
And that is a telling truth about the honesty/self deception of us charismatics. We will not buy land, not invest money, not go on a trip, because the economy is about to collapse, we will talk in hushsed tones about the coming russian invasion, but we won't devote ourselves to prayer or signficantly change our lifestyle.

that points out...

#2 - the complete phoniness of so much of the stuff we do. So much of the stuff that we devote our time to is nothing but ear tickling drivle, and our actions belie the fact that we truly know this.
We routinely give and or hear prophecies about this or thats going to happen, whether its a great move of God, or an impending judgement. We talk about whats going on "in the spiritual" and other similar nonsense, but nothing ever happens. And the reason nothing ever happens is because all the while, as we talk about this stuff, we never DO anything. We don't devote ourselves to prayer, we don't devote ourselves to serving the needs of others, we don't devote ourselves to loving each other, let alone the "least of these".

All our oooing, and ahhing about whats happening in "the spiritual" is just so much worthless crap because what may or may not be happening "in the spiritual" is irrelevant. It will never happen in the actual, until people start DOing, but the truth is people would rather talk, than do, because they are fake.
Why bother actually going to prayer, or actually pouring myself out for the needy, which is hard, when I can get all the tinglies and goose bumps by just talking about impending doom and the latest move "in the spiritual".

The worst part is that I have been just like that for most of my life.
What Church do you go to?

Sounds horrible. Any others around you could attend?

[Simon_Templar]

What Church do you go to?

Sounds horrible. Any others around you could attend?
I do go to a different Church now, but most of my family are still in the same basic place, just with different groups.

[KenBrauckmann]

It's not just the one church... it's the "whole scene" (whoops! dating myself with that phrase!) I have never been to ANY church near ST but we have the same problems here - if not worse! I guess God is 'bugging' all of us here to seek the Real, not the Phony...

[KenBrauckmann]

(go Ken - way to kill a thread..... :doh: )

[PaladinGirl]

(go Ken - way to kill a thread..... :doh: )

^_^ :hug:

[KenBrauckmann]

^_^ :hug:
thanks! I really was tryimg to contribute too....

:sigh:

[jeolmstead]

(go Ken - way to kill a thread..... :doh: )
You didn't kill it, we all kinda feel the same, there is just not much more we can say at this point. We hunger for something else. It's just not clear what it is.

John O.

[KenBrauckmann]

You didn't kill it, we all kinda feel the same, there is just not much more we can say at this point. We hunger for something else. It's just not clear what it is.

John O.
um... perhaps the reality of Christ as opposed to the flashy showmanship that tries to imitate it? (There I go again, restating the obvious...)

Something that has bugged me the last few weks at service is my disconnect with the pastor's sermons. Not anything in particular, but God has really welled up within me the priority of glorifying Jesus during the sermons rather than ...(mind goes blank at 3 am, sorry.... Now I remember!) rather than getting all that God has for you. We often end the choir time with a word of prophecy or two (usually about the wonderful blessings God has for us and that, being pleased with our worship, He will shortly bring to pass the Vision He gave us) and we are to say to each other something cute like: "If you're not careful, you're gonna get blessed!!" - :sigh:

I thought we were supposed to focus on blessing and thanking God for HIS works, not the other way around... Us giving to God not Him giving to us?? I mean, who saved Who here? (Apparent violation of grammar QUITE intentional to stress a point.)

Add to this the "touch not God's anointed" rule and we can't call the pastor out on this as he hears from God frequently while us poor workerbees have too much static from 'daily life' interfering with us hearing God.

ok... I'll go back to my seat... sorry... didn't mean to screw up the service/ disturb God's Spirit (as if some mere mortal who can't keep a single thought from corruption could somehow budge the LORD Almighty)...

[PaladinGirl]

thanks! I really was tryimg to contribute too....

:sigh:
Awww... Well, I am sorry for laughing then. I thought you was halfway joking. :hug:

[MoNiCa4316]

This is a very honest thread...I think this needs to be thought about more often.
God bless

monica

[KenBrauckmann]

Awww... Well, I am sorry for laughing then. I thought you was halfway joking. :hug:
I meant it...and took it... in fun :D

[KenBrauckmann]

:wave: Hi Monica!

[MoNiCa4316]

:wave: Hi Monica!

Hey! :wave:

[Tamara224]

um... perhaps the reality of Christ as opposed to the flashy showmanship that tries to imitate it? (There I go again, restating the obvious...)

Something that has bugged me the last few weks at service is my disconnect with the pastor's sermons. Not anything in particular, but God has really welled up within me the priority of glorifying Jesus during the sermons rather than ...(mind goes blank at 3 am, sorry.... Now I remember!) rather than getting all that God has for you. We often end the choir time with a word of prophecy or two (usually about the wonderful blessings God has for us and that, being pleased with our worship, He will shortly bring to pass the Vision He gave us) and we are to say to each other something cute like: "If you're not careful, you're gonna get blessed!!" - :sigh:

I thought we were supposed to focus on blessing and thanking God for HIS works, not the other way around... Us giving to God not Him giving to us?? I mean, who saved Who here? (Apparent violation of grammar QUITE intentional to stress a point.)

Add to this the "touch not God's anointed" rule and we can't call the pastor out on this as he hears from God frequently while us poor workerbees have too much static from 'daily life' interfering with us hearing God.

ok... I'll go back to my seat... sorry... didn't mean to screw up the service/ disturb God's Spirit (as if some mere mortal who can't keep a single thought from corruption could somehow budge the LORD Almighty)...


:thumbsup: And can I just add... That thing where preachers say "turn to the person next to you and say _____" annoys the heck out of me. When I hear it I want to :sick: and :mad:

It's so wrong on so many levels. In the first place, we're just parotting. It's not genuine. In the second place, half the time it's something I don't necessarily agree with. In the third place, it's too "Simon says" for my tastes...like we can't even talk to our neighbors until the Pastor tells us what to say.

Okay, sorry, rant over.

[NorrinRadd]

:thumbsup: And can I just add... That thing where preachers say "turn to the person next to you and say _____" annoys the heck out of me. When I hear it I want to :sick: and :mad:

It's so wrong on so many levels. In the first place, we're just parotting. It's not genuine. In the second place, half the time it's something I don't necessarily agree with. In the third place, it's too "Simon says" for my tastes...like we can't even talk to our neighbors until the Pastor tells us what to say.

Okay, sorry, rant over.

Oh, girl, you just triggered such a great memory.

Back in the day, when I went to... "you know" churches, we did that all the time. Unless it was something really retarded, I was able to take it the way it was intended -- as an alternative to the rote and generic, "Hey, good to see you," something that could possibly engage some "intent."

But after doing that ALL THE TIME, it still become rote and fake and useless.

Well, one time I was at a church that had a guest speaker, a "prophet." He had an engaging and at times irreverent style, and he apparently recognized the problems with the usual, "Turn to the person..." exhortations, so he said,

"Turn to the person on either side of you and say, 'Are you stupid, or what?'"

[Tamara224]

Oh, girl, you just triggered such a great memory.

Back in the day, when I went to... "you know" churches, we did that all the time. Unless it was something really retarded, I was able to take it the way it was intended -- as an alternative to the rote and generic, "Hey, good to see you," something that could possibly engage some "intent."

But after doing that ALL THE TIME, it still become rote and fake and useless.

Well, one time I was at a church that had a guest speaker, a "prophet." He had an engaging and at times irreverent style, and he apparently recognized the problems with the usual, "Turn to the person..." exhortations, so he said,

"Turn to the person on either side of you and say, 'Are you stupid, or what?'"


http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x107/tkschroeder/Smilies/aa1.gif

[Alpine]

:thumbsup: And can I just add... That thing where preachers say "turn to the person next to you and say _____" annoys the heck out of me. When I hear it I want to :sick: and :mad:

It's so wrong on so many levels. In the first place, we're just parotting. It's not genuine. In the second place, half the time it's something I don't necessarily agree with. In the third place, it's too "Simon says" for my tastes...like we can't even talk to our neighbors until the Pastor tells us what to say.

Okay, sorry, rant over.

Usually when the pastor says that, I smile to the person next to me and say, "Hi!"

[robbymac]

Usually when the pastor says that, I smile to the person next to me and say, "Hi!"
I liked when a friend of mine once said "Turn to the person next to you and say, 'Don't you hate it when they make us do this?'" :)

[KenBrauckmann]

Ken looks around the 45 people in the 800-seat sanctuary and wonders where Tamara, Norrin, Alpine and Robbymac are sitting - they MUST be here since we have the SAME Pastor???? :scratch:

Ok... so what do we do about the issue?

Simon, you and John have been quiet. Any ideas??

[Simon_Templar]

hmmm I think that if I am ever speaking at an evangelical or P/C church I will deffinetly spoof the whole "turn to your neighbor..." thing, its such an awful clieche

[NorrinRadd]

You could have them do an Admiral Stockdale: "Ok, everyone turn to your neighbor and say, 'Who am I? Why am I here?'"

[BenAdam]

You could have them do an Admiral Stockdale: "Ok, everyone turn to your neighbor and say, 'Who am I? Why am I here?'"
GRIDLOCK!!!

[Mathetes the kerux]

Ken looks around the 45 people in the 800-seat sanctuary and wonders where Tamara, Norrin, Alpine and Robbymac are sitting - they MUST be here since we have the SAME Pastor???? :scratch:

Ok... so what do we do about the issue?

Simon, you and John have been quiet. Any ideas??
Serious ideas? Return to a correct doctrine of sin and the Cross.

[Tamara224]

Serious ideas? Return to a correct doctrine of sin and the Cross.


What?! But that's so....simple. Surely we need a 10 step plan... ;)

[BenAdam]

Ken looks around the 45 people in the 800-seat sanctuary and wonders where Tamara, Norrin, Alpine and Robbymac are sitting - they MUST be here since we have the SAME Pastor???? :scratch:

Ok... so what do we do about the issue?

Simon, you and John have been quiet. Any ideas??
Why do I get left out of these lists?!?!?!!?

[Tamara224]

Why do I get left out of these lists?!?!?!!?


Pirate discrimination.

[BenAdam]

Pirate discrimination.
Must be. Maybe I'm really a Ninja and can't be seen....

[Mathetes the kerux]

What?! But that's so....simple. Surely we need a 10 step plan... ;)
Funny . . . but as you well know my sister . . . the Gospel aint complicated. Devotion to Christ is simple . . . glory in the Cross. Amen!

[Simon_Templar]

Funny . . . but as you well know my sister . . . the Gospel aint complicated. Devotion to Christ is simple . . . glory in the Cross. Amen!
The gospel is like Chess... simple to learn, but it has depths that the wisest can get lost in.

[Tamara224]

The gospel is like Chess... simple to learn, but it has depths that the wisest can get lost in.


Oh, for sure. Which is maybe why it would be wise to keep it simple when it comes to teaching. At least until people have learned to recognize the Shepherd's voice.

Like Paul said... gotta feed them milk until they're mature enough to handle the meat.

So many people these days, imo, complicate it from the very beginning.

[Mathetes the kerux]

The gospel is like Chess... simple to learn, but it has depths that the wisest can get lost in.
True . . . but one will never drift far from the hill of calvary if even in the mires of high minded theology if one has a good grasp of sin, the cross and grace.

[JMC309]

Dear all,
Sorry to walk in unannounced, but maybe this conviction is meant to stir you up to preach...

That's what the prophets did in the Bible. And Jesus, of course. And Paul, too. Not to mention John the Baptist. And the apostles.

In case you think this "isn't your gifting," that you're no preacher, I think it says somewhere about all the apostles (including Paul) that they were the least likely preachers in the area!

JMHO

[Alpine]

Why do I get left out of these lists?!?!?!!?


I don't know. All I can say is I'm glad I finally made someone's list. :D

[KenBrauckmann]

Why do I get left out of these lists?!?!?!!?
sorry Ben - It was 'late' in my 36-hour day... obviously lost you in the 'huge crowd'...

Ken turns to the person next to him and shouts over the gap of chairs: "What was I supposed to say??"

[KenBrauckmann]

Oh, for sure. Which is maybe why it would be wise to keep it simple when it comes to teaching. At least until people have learned to recognize the Shepherd's voice.

Like Paul said... gotta feed them milk until they're mature enough to handle the meat.

So many people these days, imo, complicate it from the very beginning.
complicating it does 2 things that I can think of off the top: strokes the hearer's intellect/ ego... and makes the 'teacher' look so impressive that the hearer thinks the 'teacher' actually is spreading the truth??? Neither of these leads to the submission of our will to Jesus'...

Hmmm... dangerous situation!

[KenBrauckmann]

Dear all,
Sorry to walk in unannounced, but maybe this conviction is meant to stir you up to preach...

That's what the prophets did in the Bible. And Jesus, of course. And Paul, too. Not to mention John the Baptist. And the apostles.

In case you think this "isn't your gifting," that you're no preacher, I think it says somewhere about all the apostles (including Paul) that they were the least likely preachers in the area!

JMHO
The scary part is, I think the guy may be closer to the truth than I / we may want to admit?

[jeolmstead]

The scary part is, I think the guy may be closer to the truth than I / we may want to admit?
I preach all the time,

(I just don't get paid for it)

John O.

[JMC309]

I preach all the time,

(I just don't get paid for it)

John O.


:thumbsup:
On this topic?

[jeolmstead]

:thumbsup:
On this topic?
oh yes,

(it may be why I don't get paid anymore) ;)

John O.

[Simon_Templar]

oh yes,

(it may be why I don't get paid anymore) ;)

John O.
God will see to your compensation :) He is our very great reward!

[KenBrauckmann]

hmmm... I was hoping for something a bit less volatile for an 'introduction to preaching' topic!

I was thinking something that focuses on Jesus (based off 'Worthy is the Lamb...' in Revelations) to start out ... I don't want to get thrown out of my 'base church' on my first sermon!! :eek:

(but maybe God is the onethrowing me? :scratch: )

[JMC309]

hmmm... I was hoping for something a bit less volatile for an 'introduction to preaching' topic!

I was thinking something that focuses on Jesus (based off 'Worthy is the Lamb...' in Revelations) to start out ... I don't want to get thrown out of my 'base church' on my first sermon!! :eek:



Whitefield is said to have driven 15 people insane in his first sermon. ;)

On a Biblical note, wasn't Jesus nearly thrown off a cliff after preaching first in his "base church."?

Also, bringing the focus back onto Jesus is not necessarily far removed from this topic.:)

[jeolmstead]

God will see to your compensation :) He is our very great reward!
We are about to find out.....

John O.