Orthodox views on Catholic Rosary

[Blonde]

Would you all expound for me the Orthodox beliefs, views, etc. on the Rosary and on praying of the Rosary?
Thank you.

[Knowledge3]

The traditional Catholic rosary is the Apostle's Creed,Our Father,Hail Mary, and Gloria Patri with the salutation of the Queen. One explanation is that Mother of God as belief is Orthodox because emphasis is on the incarnation and birth of Jesus. IMO, the Catholic rosary is very traditional and orthodox.

. . .

[jckstraw72]

id say theres nothing theologically wrong with it, but i just think its weird to spend more time asking Mary to pray for you than to be actually praying to God yourself. but i think St. Seraphim of Sarov had a prayer rule that was similar to the rosary.

[Vasileios]

I think I read somewhere that the Catholic rosary invlolves conjuring up images and medidating on them? Is that true?

[Lukaris]

I think I read somewhere that the Catholic rosary invlolves conjuring up images and medidating on them? Is that true?
They are just of five mysteries in the life of Jesus Christ concluding with the passion; nothing problematic. Edit add here: Mistaken about the passion as conclusion; conclusion is Mary as queen of heaven and earth & resurrection of Christ is 1st mystery. Sorry for mistake; usually search before post but not this time. Nonetheless will stick to Orthodox prayers.

[SeraphimSarov]

I think I read somewhere that the Catholic rosary invlolves conjuring up images and medidating on them? Is that true?
Yeah, there are mysteries to be pondered on different weekdays -- the sorrowful mysteries, the joyful mysteries, etc. And with those mysteries, there are a theme for each decade to meditate on.

http://www.medjugorje.org/rosary.htm

I don't know if I have a problem with the rosary itself so much as the promises supposedly made concerning it...

[MariaRegina]

http://www.westernorthodox.com/rosary.html


The Rosary and Orthodoxy


From The Walsingham Way (Vol. II, No. I, Fall 1999), a newsletter of Western Orthodox spirituality published by the Orthodox Christian Society of Our Lady of Walsingham.


Some people have asked why the Orthodox don’t pray the Rosary as Roman Catholics and some other non-Orthodox do. Others object to Orthodox praying the Rosary since, in their view, this is not an Orthodox devotion, but peculiar to Roman Catholicism.


In hope of shedding some light on the subject, we publish the following letter of Father Alexander Gumanovsky, a spiritual son of Father Zosima, who was himself a spiritual son of St. Seraphim of Sarov. Fr. Alexander begins his letter with a quote from Fr. Zosima:


…I forgot to give you a piece of advice vital for salvation. Say the 0 Hail, Mother of God and Virgin one hundred and fifty times, and this prayer will lead you on the way to salvation. This rule was given by the Mother of God herself in about the eighth century, and at one time all Christians fulfilled it. We Orthodox have forgotten about it, and St. Seraphim has reminded me of this Rule. In my hands I have a hand-written book from the cell of St. Seraphim, containing a description of the many miracles which took place through praying to the Mother of God and especially through saying one hundred and fifty times the O Hail, Mother of God and Virgin. If, being unaccustomed to it, it is difficult to master one hundred and fifty repetitions daily, say it fifty times at first. After every ten repetitions say the Our Father once and Open unto us the doors of thy loving-kindness1. Whomever he spoke to about this miracle-working Rule remained grateful to him…


The elder Zosima greatly valued and loved Bishop Seraphim Zvezdinsky and always spoke of him as that saintly Bishop. Bishop Seraphim Zvezdinsky performed the Rule of the Mother of God every day, and; when he performed it he prayed for the whole world, embracing in is this Rule whole life of the Queen of Heaven.


He gave one of his spiritual children the task of copying a plan which he included his prayer to the Ever Virgin Mary. Here it is:


First decade: Let us remember the birth of the Mother of God. Let us pray for mothers, fathers, and children.


Second decade: Let us the feast of the Presentation of the Blessed Virgin and Mother of God. Let us pray for those who have lost their way and fallen away from the church.


Third decade: Let us remember the Annunciation of the Blessed Mother of God—let us pray for the soothing of sorrows and the consolation of those who grieve.


Fourth decade: Let us remember the meeting of the Blessed Virgin with the righteous Elizabeth. Let us pray for the reunion of the separated, for those whose dear ones or children are living away from them or missing.


Fifth decade: Let us remember the Birth of Christ. Let us pray for the rebirth of souls, for new life in Christ.


Sixth decade: Let us remember the Feast of the Purification of the Lord, and the words uttered by St. Simeon: Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also (Luke 2:35). Let us pray that the Mother of God will meet our souls at the hour of our death, and will contrive that we receive the Holy Sacrament with our last breath, and will lead our souls through the terrible torments.


Seventh decade: Let us remember the flight of the Mother of God with the God-Child into Egypt. Let us pray that the Mother of God will help us avoid temptation in this life and deliver us from misfortunes.


Eighth decade: Let us remember the disappearance of the twelve-year old boy Jesus in Jerusalem and the sorrow of the Mother of God on this account. Let us pray, begging the Mother of God for the constant repetition of the Jesus Prayer.


Ninth decade: Let us remember-the miracle performed in Cana of Galilee, when the Lord turned water into wine at the words of the Mother of God: They have no wine (John 2:3). Let us ask the Mother of God for help in our affairs and deliverance from need.


Tenth decade: Let us remember the Mother of God standing at the Cross of the Lord, when grief pierced through her heart like a sword. Let us pray to the Mother of God for the strengthening of our Souls and the banishment of despondency.


Eleventh decade: Let us remember the Resurrection of Christ and ask the Mother of God in prayer to resurrect our souls and give us a new courage for spiritual feats.


Twelfth decade: Let us remember the Ascension of Christ, at which the Mother of God was present. Let us pray and ask the Queen of Heaven to raise up our souls from earthly and worldly amusements and direct them to striving for higher things.


Thirteenth decade: Let us remember the Upper Room and the descent of the Holy Spirit on the Apostles and the Mother of God. Let us pray: Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me (Psalm 51).


Fourteenth decade: Let us remember the Assumption of the Blessed Mother of God, and ask for a peaceful and serene end.


Fifteenth decade: Let us remember the glory of the Mother of God, with which the Lord crowned her after her removal from earth to heaven. Let us pray to the Queen of Heaven not to abandon the faithful who are on earth but to defend them from every evil, covering them with her honoring and protecting veil.


After every decade Bishop Seraphim prayed his own prayers, which he revealed to no one, so that only the Lord and the Queen of Heaven knew these prayers. Thus, we can see that the Rosary is a completely Orthodox form of devotion to our Lady.


Those who follow the Western tradition should follow one of the standard forms, i.e. the opening consisting of the Sign of the Cross followed by the Lord’s Prayer; or O Lord, open Thou my lips, and my mouth shall show forth Thy praise and the Glory be… followed by the Lord’s Prayer and the Angelic Salutation (three times). After this, either five or fifteen decades (each preceded by the appropriate mystery) are recited; and after the decades, the conclusion consisting of the Regina Coeli and the appropriate collect.


Those who follow the Eastern tradition could very easily follow the form cited above, ending with the hymn, It is truly meet to call thee blessed.


What is essential is to daily seek the intercessions of the Mother of God, so that in drawing closer to her, we may be drawn closer to her Son, our Savior, Jesus, with whom she now reigns eternally in Heaven.


The Full text of the prayer is:
Open unto us the door of thy loving-kindness, O blessed Mother of God, in that we set our hope on thee, may we not go astray; but through thee may we be delivered from all adversities, fix thou art the salvation of all Christian people.

[MariaRegina]

Here is the url to the information posted below:

http://www.unicorne.org/Orthodoxy/hiver2004/prayer.htm


Question:



I was Roman Catholic before converting to Orthodoxy 3 years ago. Prior to becoming Orthodox the rosary was a very important devotion in my life. Some time after my conversion I got rid of my rosary beads.
Since the rosary contains prayers such as the Hail Mary, Our Father, and Glory Be (all which are Orthodox prayers) is there any reason why an Orthodox couldn't integrate it into his or her prayer life (in addition of course to the Jesus Prayer)? By the way I drop the Fatima prayer as well as the Hail Holy Queen, supplanting it with "It is truly proper to call you blessed..."
I am told Western rite Orthodox pray the rosary. I would appreciate your viewpoint.






alex@unicorne.org


There are a number of devotions that are shared by both East and West and have been for centuries before the two parted ways after 1054 AD. Among these is the Psalter of the Mother of God or "rosary" as it has come to be known in the West.


In fact, Western saints like Alan des Roches, Louis de Montfort and Dominic preferred to call the recitation of 150 "Hail Mary's" together with meditations the "Psalter of Our Lady."


St Seraphim of Sarov, whose 250th anniversary of birth is being celebrated in Kursk and elsewhere in Ukraine and Russia right now, was very devoted to the Psalter or Rule of Prayer of the Mother of God. He recited it daily and expected his spiritual children to recite it daily as well.


At Diveyevo monastery in Russia, there is a ditch or canal that runs around the perimeter of the monastery where the nuns walk daily, reciting that rule of prayer and they sing it on important feast-days. St Seraphim taught them that the Mother of God herself revealed to him that she walks that canal daily. The great and holy Elder kept a book in which he wrote various miracles that occurred by the daily fulfillment of this rule of prayer.


St Seraphim taught that this prayer was revealed to a monk of the Thebaid in the 8th century during a vision of the Mother of God and that all Christians used to recite it daily ever since. He also taught that the daily praying of this rule was more important than any other prayer to the Mother of God such as canons or akathists in procuring her blessing and protection on our lives.


There were some Orthodox saints that used the "Hail Mary" or "Rejoice, O Virgin Theotokos" prayer in place of the Jesus prayer, in other words they recited it continually. One Elder who did this was named, the "Elder of the Theotokos."


This prayer is a summation of the New Testament and a hymn of praise of the Divine Incarnation of our Lord, God and Saviour, Jesus Christ. It begins by praising the Mother of God and then moves to the praise of the Fruit of her womb, the Lord Jesus. To pray this prayer often, and especially in the rule of prayer known in the West as the "rosary" is to enter into special union with Christ, God the Word-made-Flesh, and through Him, with the Holy Trinity.


The Eastern Orthodox Church developed prayer ropes that were divided into decades and St Seraphim of Sarov himself used a Lestovka, still used today by the Old Believers of Russia and Ukraine, that had 150 small "steps" divided every ten with a larger "step" or "babotchka."


But one may use the more readily available rosary beads and Roman Catholics still make the "cord rosary" which is the Western prayer rope made of Celtic knots. Western rite Orthodox use rosary beads and Orthodox Christians in the Carpathians, in Greece and elsewhere use wooden beads as well. It really matters not!
The "Hail Holy Queen" is used by Western rite Orthodox and there are those who use the Fatima prayer which is but a version of the Jesus Prayer. There is no reason why you should not continue to use those prayers!


The Holy Fool-for-Christ's sake, St Procopius of Ustiug in Russia was a German convert to Orthodoxy. After his repose in the Lord, the church authorities found his psalter that he always recited. They discovered that it was his old Latin Psalter, arranged in accordance with Roman tradition!


In addition, many Eastern Orthodox saints adopted Western forms of prayer such as St Dmitri of Rostov. He, and others of the "Kyivan Baroque" period of Orthodox church history, not only prayed the "rosarium" or Rule of Prayer of the Mother of God daily. He also prayed the Hail Mary at the turn of every hour, and even at night he got up out of bed every hour as the clock chimed to recite this prayer! He had a great devotion to the "Joys and Sorrows" of the Most Holy Virgin Mary and his devotion continues in the "Tale of the Five Prayers" that is even found in the Jordanville prayerbook that is online.


As a matter of fact, I've found Slavonic Orthodox translations of the Western rosary, the Little Office of the Virgin Mary (also used by Western Orthodox), the Psalter of Our Lady by St Bonaventure and the "Fifteen Prayers of St Brigitte." The western Scapular of Mt Carmel was also popular among the Orthodox of that time period and, to this day, there is a miraculous Orthodox icon of Our Lady of Mt Carmel, as noted in the book on icons by Prof. Poselianin ("Bogomater"), that is venerated in the Ukrainian town of Horodyschenske called the Mother of God of the Scapular or "Shkaplirna Bozha Maty!"


n fact, the original icon of Our Lady of Mt Carmel that is in the Cathedral of Naples (also called "Our Lady of Naples" or the "Brown Madonna" or "La Bruna") is a beautiful Byzantine icon and I have a poster-size copy of this icon


So please do get yourself another pair of beads or a prayer rope divided into decades and also a small decade "tenner" that you can carry with you throughout the day to ensure that you get through the full 15 decades daily that is the Orthodox tradition.


I like the practice of adding some words to every decade's "Hail Mary's" that reflect the mystery that is being considered. If you go to this website


www.montfortmissionaries.com and click on "Share your Thoughts," scroll down to my letter of September 24, 2003 where I've indicated an Orthodox set of mysteries and a method of reciting them. One may use the same outline to meditate on the mysteries as accepted in the West and also on the "Stations of the Cross" that Orthodox Christians in western Ukraine and elsewhere also practice devotion to. (The Ukrainian Orthodox Saint Tikhon Zadonsky had a life-size representation of a form of the Way of the Cross in his cell!).


And may the Most Holy Mother of God bless you in your endeavour!

[MariaRegina]

St. Seraphim of Sarov Rule of Prayer


The great prayer of the Church, following the Divine Liturgy, is, of course, the Book of 150 Psalms. So interwoven are these prayers in the great liturgical texts that St John Chrysostom did not hesitate to remark that St David, King and Prophet, was everywhere commemorated and present throughout the feasts and festivals of the Church. The Psalter is sung liturgically once each week in our Church, and twice each week during Lent. It is the basis of personal prayer as well and it was not surprising to find individuals who knew the Psalter by heart. St. John the Ukrainian Kozak and Confessor spent his days in Turkish captivity praying the psalms which he knew by heart.


The practice soon developed, however, to develop “substitutes” for the Psalter to allow people who could not read or who were otherwise very busy to pray according to the pattern of the Church’s liturgy. Priests and monastics who were traveling, for example, could fulfill their daily obligations of prayer, when necessary, by fulfilling a private rule of repeated prayers.


One of the earliest of these “psalter-substitutes” or “little psalters” involved the repetition of the Our Father and O Virgin Theotokos prayers 150 times each.


To keep count, people tied 50 or 150 knots on a cord that they carried about with them. St. Basil the Great himself prescribed the making of prayer-ropes or “komvoschinia” with 100 knots divided every 25 with a divider bead or knot for the saying of prescribed numbers of the Jesus Prayer to replace the Divine Office and also the Psalter (one would have had to say the Jesus Prayer 6,000 times instead of the Psalter).


In the West, prayer-chains with beads were soon developed with beads organized into groups of ten, divided with a larger bead (called the “gaudies”). And the very word “bead” or “bede” came from the old English word for “prayer” (and “beg” comes from the same root). The group of ten beads recalled the ten-stringed musical instrument of the psalter itself on which King David played when he sang his psalms.


With all the interest in the life of St. Seraphim of Sarov last year and this, a number of his prayer rules have been published, his own very strict cell-rule for praying the psalms and his unique prayer rule for laity.


His “Rule of the Mother of God” consists of reciting 150 O Virgin Theotokos divided up into groups of ten. Each group is followed Our Father and by the prayer, Open the door, which he insisted was important to include along with a special prayer for a particular intention. St Seraphim also kept a book in which he listed all sorts of miraculous healings of people who prayed this rule faithfully every day.


O Virgin Theotokos, Rejoice, Mary full of grace; the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, for thou has borne the Savior of our souls.


Open the door of thy loving-kindness, O blessed Mother of God, that we who put our hope in thee may not perish. Through thee, may we be delivered from adversities, for thou art the salvation of all Christian people.


At the great Diveyevo monastery, the nuns continue to recite this prayer rule as they walk in procession around the perimeter of their monastery three times. They actually sing it out loud during important feast-days associated with the Icon of the Mother of God “Joy of all Joys” that was St Seraphim’s cell-icon and on feasts of St Seraphim himself. St. Seraphim taught that this prayer rule was revealed to an Eastern monk in the Thebaid in Africa in the 8th century.


On Mount Athos, novice monks especially are urged to practice reciting 150 "O Virgin Theotokos"es with a prostration to the ground at the end of each prayer. The same is practiced with "Our Father"s. St. Seraphim Zvezdinsky performed the Rule of the Mother of God every day, and; when he performed it he prayed for the whole world, embracing in is this Rule whole life of the Queen of Heaven. He gave one of his spiritual children the task of copying a plan which he included his prayer to the Ever Virgin Mary. Here it is:


First decade: Let us remember the birth of the Mother of God. Let us pray for mothers, fathers, and children.


Second decade: Let us the feast of the Presentation of the Blessed Virgin and Mother of God. Let us pray for those who have lost their way and fallen away from the church.


Third decade: Let us remember the Annunciation of the Blessed Mother of God—let us pray for the soothing of sorrows and the consolation of those who grieve.


Fourth decade: Let us remember the meeting of the Blessed Virgin with the righteous Elizabeth. Let us pray for the reunion of the separated, for those whose dear ones or children are living away from them or missing.


Fifth decade: Let us remember the Birth of Christ. Let us pray for the rebirth of souls, for new life in Christ.


Sixth decade: Let us remember the Feast of the Purification of the Lord, and the words uttered by St. Simeon: "Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also" (Luke 2:35). Let us pray that the Mother of God will meet our souls at the hour of our death, and will contrive that we receive the Holy Sacrament with our last breath, and will lead our souls through the terrible torments.


Seventh decade: Let us remember the flight of the Mother of God with the God-Child into Egypt. Let us pray that the Mother of God will help us avoid temptation in this life and deliver us from misfortunes.


Eighth decade: Let us remember the disappearance of the twelve-year old boy Jesus in Jerusalem and the sorrow of the Mother of God on this account. Let us pray, begging the Mother of God for the constant repetition of the Jesus Prayer.


Ninth decade: Let us remember-the miracle performed in Cana of Galilee, when the Lord turned water into wine at the words of the Mother of God: "They have no wine" (John 2:3). Let us ask the Mother of God for help in our affairs and deliverance from need.


Tenth decade: Let us remember the Mother of God standing at the Cross of the Lord, when grief pierced through her heart like a sword. Let us pray to the Mother of God for the strengthening of our Souls and the banishment of despondency.


Eleventh decade: Let us remember the Resurrection of Christ and ask the Mother of God in prayer to resurrect our souls and give us a new courage for spiritual feats.


Twelfth decade: Let us remember the Ascension of Christ, at which the Mother of God was present. Let us pray and ask the Queen of Heaven to raise up our souls from earthly and worldly amusements and direct them to striving for higher things.


Thirteenth decade: Let us remember the Upper Room and the descent of the Holy Spirit on the Apostles and the Mother of God. Let us pray: "Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me" (Psalm 50).


Fourteenth decade: Let us remember the Assumption of the Blessed Mother of God, and ask for a peaceful and serene end.


Fifteenth decade: Let us remember the glory of the Mother of God, with which the Lord crowned her after her removal from earth to heaven. Let us pray to the Queen of Heaven not to abandon the faithful who are on earth but to defend them from every evil, covering them with her honoring and protecting veil.


Adapted 12-29-07 from <http://www.angelfire.com/planet/parastos/seraphimrule2.html>

[MariaRegina]

http://www.myriobiblos.gr/texts/english/prayerbook/main.htm

THE FIVE PRAYERS


From the times of the Apostles, Christians of all ages, when entering upon a task, began it with prayer, and the end of it they also hallowed with prayerful thanksgiving to the Lord, in Whom we live and move and have our being. And let us do the same, beloved reader.

But not having the gift of effectual prayer, let us recall and commit to memory what once was offered to the Lord by the grace of the Holy Spirit out of the inspired heart of the great Russian man of prayer, our father among the Saints, Dimitri, Metropolitan of Rostov and Yaroslav.

I am sure that for you, as for me, in offering to your attention "The Tale of The Five Prayers" the work of the great Bishop, it will be both welcome and useful, especially in the view of the wonderful promises which it contains. So hear this tale, my beloved reader.

You will not blame me for offering you in this Tale something new - it is not mine, and not new, but only fundamentally and completely forgotten, forgive me that I have disturbed the dust of ages: but this dust is holy ...
***
One of the holy fathers, standing in prayer and being in ecstasy, heard the voice of our Lord Jesus Christ speaking to the Immaculate and Holy Mother of God, His Mother, saying to her:
"Tell me, My Mother, which were the greatest of your sufferings, when you lived in the world, which you suffered for My sake?"
The Immaculate One replied:
"My Son and God, five times I have endured my greatest suffering for you:
First, when I heard from the Prophet Simeon that you were to be killed;
Second, when I looked for you in Jerusalem, and did not see you for three days;
Third, when I heard that you were seized and bound by the Jews;
Fourth, when I saw you on the Cross crucified between the robbers;
Fifth, when I saw you placed in the Tomb."And the Lord said to her:
"I tell you. My Mother, whoever reads every day each of your sufferings with My prayer, i.e. 'Our Father,' for the first suffering I will give the knowledge of his sins and sorrow for them; for the second, I will give the forgiveness of all his sins; for the third, I will restore to him the virtues lost through sin; for the fourth, I will refresh him at death with my Divine Body and Blood; for the fifth, I will appear to him Myself at his death, and receive his soul into eternal life. Amen."

***


After this vision of the Holy Father, the following prayers were added by St. Dimitri:


At the beginning of the five prayers:

In the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.

"Glory to Thee, Christ my God, that Thou hast not destroyed me a sinner, with my sins, but even till now hast borne -with my sin."
Vouchsafe, O Lord, to keep me this day without sin. Grant, O Lord, that I may not anger Thee, my Creator, in thought, word or deed, but that all my actions, counsels and thoughts may be to the glory of Thy Holy Name." [Bow]

"God be merciful to me, a sinner, throughout my whole life. In my passing and after death, forsake me not." [Bow]

Falling low on the earth, say:

"Lord, Jesus Christ, Son of God, accept me, dead in mind and soul, accept me, a sinful prodigal, impure in soul and body. Take from me all shameless enmity and resistance, and turn not Thy Face from me, O Lord, nor say: I know not who thou art. But hear the voice of my prayer: save me, for Thou hast a wealth of compassion and desirest not the death of a sinner. I will never leave Thee nor depart from Thee, my Creator, till Thou hearest me and givest me forgiveness of all my sins, through the prayers of Thy Most Pure Mother, the intercession of the honorable Bodiless Powers of Heaven, of my holy and glorious Guardian Angel, of Thy Forerunner and Prophet, the Baptist John, of the God-speaking Apostles, of the holy and victorious martyrs, of our Reverend and God-fearing fathers, and all Thy Saints, have mercy and save me, a sinner."

[B]Heavenly King, Comforter, Spirit of Truth, Who art everywhere present and fillest all things, Treasury of good gifts and Giver of Life, come and abide in us, and cleanse us of all impurity, and save our souls, O Good One.
Holy God, Holy Mighty, Holy Immortal One, have mercy on us. (thrice)
Glory to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit, now and ever, and to the ages of ages. Amen.

Most Holy Trinity, have mercy on us. O Lord, wash away our sins, O Master, pardon our transgressions. O Holy One, visit and heal our infirmities, for Thy Name's sake.
Lord, have mercy. (3 times.)
Glory to the Father, and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit, now and ever, and to the ages of ages. Amen.

Our Father, Who art in heaven, hallowed be Thy Name. Thy Kingdom come. Thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.
[For Thine is the kingdom, the power and the glory, of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, now and ever, and to the ages of ages. Amen.]


Virgin Mother of God, rejoice, Mary full of grace; the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, for thou hast borne the Saviour of our souls.

First Prayer


"O merciful Mother, Virgin Mary, I thy sinful and unprofitable servant, remembering thy suffering on hearing from the Prophet Simeon of the merciless murder of thy Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, offer thee this prayer and the Angelic Salutation. Accept it in honor and memory of thy suffering, and pray thy Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, to grant me the knowledge of my sins and sorrow for them."

[B]Second Prayer


Our Father .. . Virgin Mother ...
"O Divinely-blessed and Immaculate Maiden, Mother and Virgin, accept from me, thy sinful and unprofitable servant, this prayer and the Angelic Salutation, in honor and memory of thy suffering when thou didst lose thy Son our Lord Jesus Christ, in the Temple, and for three days didst not see Him. Pray and beg of Him the forgiveness and remission of all my sins, O only Blessed One."

[B]Third Prayer


Our Father .. . Virgin Mother ...
"O Mother of Light, most blessed Virgin Mother of God, accept from me, thy sinful and unprofitable servant, this prayer and the Angelic Salutation, in honor and memory of thy suffering on hearing that thy Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, had been seized and bound. Pray Him to restore to me the virtues lost through sin, that I may magnify thee, O Most Pure One, for ever."

[B]Fourth Prayer


Our Father ... Virgin Mother ...
"O Fountain of Mercy, Virgin Mother of God, accept from me, thy sinful and unprofitable servant, this prayer and the Angelic Salutation, in honor and memory of thy suffering when thou didst see thy GOD, our Lord Jesus Christ, on the Cross between the robbers. Pray Him, O Lady, to grant me the gift of His mercy in the hour of my death, and to refresh me with His Divine Body and Blood, that I may glorify thee, my Defender, for ever."

[B]Fifth Prayer


Our Father .. . Virgin Mother . ..
"O my Hope, Most Pure Virgin, Mother of God, accept from me, thy sinful and unprofitable servant, this prayer and the Angelic Salutation, in honor and memory of thy suffering when thou didst see thy Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, placed in the Tomb. Pray Him, O Lady, to appear to me in the hour of my death, and to receive my soul into eternal life. Amen." [Bow]

[Blonde]

So do Orthodox believe the whole "Queen of Heaven" thing too?
May I ask, regarding if Mary is a perpetual virgin or not, if she is Queen of Heaven, etc.....why does any of that matter ?

[MariaRegina]

In searching for the Five Prayers, I came across this site, which has great prayers.

http://www.myriobiblos.gr/texts/english/prayerbook/main.htm

[Protoevangel]

So do Orthodox believe the whole "Queen of Heaven" thing too?

May I ask, regarding if Mary is a perpetual virgin or not, if she is Queen of Heaven, etc.....why does any of that matter ?
Queen of Heaven? Well, I haven't heard that actual title being used, but yea. Mary is the Mother of God. You cannot deny that without denying that Christ is truly God. So she is, in a very real sense, the Queen Mother. Not in herself (she is but a creature like any other), but only through her life in Christ.

Why does it matter? Because who Mary is directly relates to who Jesus is.

“Rejoice, highly favored one, the Lord is with you; blessed are you among women!” - Luke 1:28b

“Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! But why is this granted to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?" - Luke 1:42b-43

“My soul magnifies the Lord, And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior. For He has regarded the lowly state of His maidservant; For behold, henceforth all generations will call me blessed." - Luke 1:46b-48

[Rowan]

I don't think there is anything wrong with it. When I got EWTN, I used to fall asleep to the International Rosary when they televised it. AFAIK, it's theologically sound.

She's the Queen because she is the mother of the King. That hierarchy is from the Old Testament.

7 Then he said, “Please speak to King Solomon, for he will not refuse you, that he may give me Abishag the Shunammite as wife.”
18 So Bathsheba said, “Very well, I will speak for you to the king.”
19 Bathsheba therefore went to King Solomon, to speak to him for Adonijah. And the king rose up to meet her and bowed down to her, and sat down on his throne and had a throne set for the king’s mother; so she sat at his right hand. 20 Then she said, “I desire one small petition of you; do not refuse me.”
And the king said to her, “Ask it, my mother, for I will not refuse you.”
~ 1 Kings 2:17-20

13 Jehu met with the brothers of Ahaziah king of Judah, and said, “Who are you?”
So they answered, “We are the brothers of Ahaziah; we have come down to greet the sons of the king and the sons of the queen mother.”


~ 2 Kings 10:13

[MacariusRomanus]

If I'm not mistaken, although the prayers of the Catholic Rosary are Orthodox in content, the method of meditation used in praying the Rosary is not, because in Orthodoxy we discourage any use of the imagination in prayer. Using the imagination in prayer apparently invites demonic deception.

From Hmk. Seraphim of Platina's biography:

In conversation, Fr. Seraphim explained that the use of imagination in Western spiritual systems of meditation—viz., while saying the Rosary, reciting the Stations of the Cross, or doing the Spiritual Exercises of Ignatius of Loyola, etc.—was not compatible with Orthodox spirituality and was forbidden because imagination came into use only after the fall of Adam and Eve; it is one of the lowest functions of the soul and the favorite playground of the devil, who can and does use human imagination in order to deceive and mislead even well-meaning people.

[Rowan]

If I'm not mistaken, although the prayers of the Catholic Rosary are Orthodox in content, the method of meditation used in praying the Rosary is not, because in Orthodoxy we discourage any use of the imagination in prayer. Using the imagination in prayer apparently invites demonic deception.

You don't have to use any imagination. Alot of people focus on the prayers.

I don't know if there was a consensus on the Fathers or not on the imagination thing (I'm thinking about the school of St. Ignatius (??) that's not totally against the use).

[MacariusRomanus]

You don't have to use any imagination. Alot of people focus on the prayers.

Then I think it'd be okay, then. Of course, any prayer rule ought to be first checked before a Spiritual Father.

[Rowan]

Then I think it'd be okay, then. Of course, any prayer rule ought to be first checked before a Spiritual Father.

I agree...to a point.

Technically, the rosary is devotional prayer, which is outside of a prayer rule, but anything is up for discussion when it comes to a spiritual father and his spiritual children.

[Rowan]

From Hmk. Seraphim of Platina's biography:

Thanks for the edit! I didn't see that before.

Silly me thinking there's one St. Ignatius :doh:

[michaeldimmickjr]

we Orthodox have a rosary of our own. we have ample prayers for our own prayer rope without going elsewhere... at least that's what i was told by my priest.

in IC XC,
michael

[kamikat]

This thread is being moved to the debate subforum by staff consensus.

[Rowan]

:scratch:

I don't understand. If there was any debate, it was between Orthodox Christians (and not even really a passionate one at that). Doesn't debate between Orthodox Christians stay in the main forum?

[Blonde]

It is my understanding that someone reported this thread. Seems a trifle to me.
I was asking strictly for Orthodox views and that is exactly what I got.
Thank you all very much for your effort and time, who tried to help me understand.

[michaeldimmickjr]

this is exactly the kind of thing that keeps me away from here for long periods of time. if someone really did report this thread, for what, i have no idea, they need to get a life. the feeling that i get from some people on here is that they are right, they know everything, and if you offend them in any way, or do not *think* the way they do- you get reported. i don't know if some of you realize this or not- but it's the internet.

michael

[IgnatiusOfAntioch]

They are just of five mysteries in the life of Jesus Christ concluding with the passion; nothing problematic. Edit add here: Mistaken about the passion as conclusion; conclusion is Mary as queen of heaven and earth & resurrection of Christ is 1st mystery. Sorry for mistake; usually search before post but not this time. Nonetheless will stick to Orthodox prayers.

Greetings brothers and sisters in Christ.

There are many forms of prayers which can be said with a rosary, including the Chaplet of Divine Mercy, the 100 Jesus Prayers (same as on the chotki ), the 150 Psalms, etc.
I believe the form you are speaking of is the contemplation of the 5 mysteries. The Mysteries to be contemplated when saying the rosary are as follows:

Monday Joyful Mysteries:
First Joyful Mystery - The Annunciation by the Angel Gabriel
Second Joyful Mystery - The visitation of Mary to Elizabeth
Third Joyful Mystery - The Nativity of Our Lord
Fourth Joyful Mystery - The presentation in the temple
Fifth Joyful Mystery - Finding Jesus in the temple

Tuesday Sorrowful Mysteries:
1st Sorrowful Mystery - The Agony in the Garden
2nd Sorrowful Mystery - The Scourging at the pillar
3rd Sorrowful Mystery - The crown of thorns
4th Sorrowful Mystery - The carrying of the cross
5th Sorrowful Mystery - The Crucifixion of Our Lord

Wednesday Glorious Mysteries:
1 The Resurrection
2 The Ascension
3 The descent of the Holy Spirit (Pentecost)
4 The Assumption of Mary
5 The Coronation of Mary

Thursday Luminous Mysteries:
1 The Baptism of Jesus
2 The wedding feast at Cana
3 The Kingdom of God
4 The Transfiguration of Jesus
5 The Holy Eucharist


Blessings and many years to all here

[Ishida]

Wow, are those prayers for real? We're not Mary's servants..

[All4Christ]

I'll look for the link - but a Western Rite Orthodox Church wrote an article describing the Orthodox "version" of the rosary. Same thing - minus a few of the mysteries which we don't believe in. Could be wrong - but I think one was the immaculate conception.

[MoNiCa4316]

What about the chaplet of Divine Mercy?


:)

[nutroll]

Wow, are those prayers for real? We're not Mary's servants..
"If any man desire to be first, the same shall be last of all and servant of all."

[Rowan]

I'll look for the link - but a Western Rite Orthodox Church wrote an article describing the Orthodox "version" of the rosary. Same thing - minus a few of the mysteries which we don't believe in. Could be wrong - but I think one was the immaculate conception.

The Immaculate Conception never was a mystery.

I remember the Orthodox version having more mysteries, like more events from Mary's life before the Incarnation.

[IgnatiusOfAntioch]

The Eastern Rosary
St. Seraphim of Sarov prayed the Rosary daily!
The Russian ‘Rule of the Mother of God’ consists of praying 150 ‘Rejoice, O Virgin Mother of God’ prayers a day.


http://www.stanne-byzcath.org/Our-Lady-Queen-of-Angels.jpg+ = Make the sign of the cross.
Start at the crucifix:
+ In the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.
Glory to Thee, our God, glory to Thee.
Heavenly King, Comforter, Spirit of Truth, who art everywhere and fillest all things, Treasury of blessings and Giver of life, come dwell within us, cleanse us from all our sins and save our souls, O gracious Lord.
From Easter until Ascension leave out Glory to Thee and Heavenly King and instead say three times Christ is risen from the dead, trampling down death by death, and upon those in the tombs bestowing life. From Ascension until Pentecost, simply make the sign of the cross — In the Name of the Father — before continuing as usual with:
+ Holy God, holy and Mighty, holy and Immortal, have mercy on us. (Three times)
+ Glory to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit, now and ever and forever. Amen.
Most holy Trinity, have mercy on us. Lord, cleanse us from our sins. O Master, pardon our transgressions. O Holy One, visit us and heal our infirmities for Thy Name’s sake. Lord, have mercy. Lord, have mercy. Lord, have mercy.
+ Glory to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit, now and ever and forever. Amen.
Then at the first large bead on the pendant:
+ Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be Thy Name. Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil.
Have mercy on us, O Lord, have mercy on us, for we have no defence: this prayer do we as sinners offer Thee as Master, have mercy on us.
+ Glory to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit.
Lord, have mercy upon us, for we have hoped in Thee. Be not angry with us greatly nor remember our iniquities, but have mercy on us now for Thou art compassionate and deliver us from our enemies. For Thou art our God and we Thy people; all are the works of Thy hands and we call upon Thy name.
Both now and ever and forever. Amen.
Open unto us the doors of compassion, O holy Mother of God, for hoping in thee we will not perish, but through thee will we be delivered from all adversities, for thou art the salvation of Christians.
Lord, have mercy. (12 times)
+ Glory to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit, now and ever and forever. Amen.
+ O come, let us worship God our King.
+ O come, let us worship and bow down before Christ, our King and our God.
+ O come, let us worship and bow down before Christ Himself, our King and our God.

Then you may say Psalm 50 (51) (http://www.ascensionandsaintagnes.org/prayer/penitentialpsalms.htm#51), Have mercy on me, O God — or another appropriate psalm — and the Nicene Creed (http://www.orthodox.net/services/symbol-es.html), I believe in one God, the Father almighty.
http://www.stanne-byzcath.org/Platytera-of-the-Heavens1.jpg
Then at the first small bead on the pendant:
+ Glory to the Father, who hast made us, both now now and ever and forever. Amen.
Rejoice, O Virgin Mother of God, Mary full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, for thou hast borne the Savior of our souls.
Then at the second small bead on the pendant:
+ Glory to the Son, who hast redeemed us, both now and ever and forever. Amen.
Rejoice, O Virgin Mother of God, Mary full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, for thou hast borne the Savior of our souls.
Then at the third small bead on the pendant:
+ Glory to the Holy Spirit, who hast enlightened us, both now and ever and forever. Amen.
Rejoice, O Virgin Mother of God, Mary full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, for thou hast borne the Savior of our souls.
+ Glory to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit, both now and ever and forever. Amen.
The decades or mysteries are as in the Dominican Rosary, with an Our Father, 10 ‘Rejoice O Virgin Mother of God’ (Hail Mary) prayers and the ‘Glory to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit’. After each decade one may say the Fátima prayer: O my Jesus, forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of hell. Lead all souls to heaven, especially those most in need of Thy mercy.
The mysteries are:
JOYFUL: Annunciation, Visitation of Our Lady to St Elisabeth, Nativity of Christ, Presentation of the Child Jesus in the Temple, Finding of the Boy Jesus in the Temple.
SORROWFUL: Agony in the Garden, Scourging at the Pillar, Crowning with Thorns, Jesus Carries the Cross, Crucifixion.
GLORIOUS: Resurrection, Ascension, Descent of the Holy Spirit, Dormition/Assumption and Crowning of Our Lady in Glory in Heaven.
LUMINOUS: Baptism of Christ in the Jordan (Theophany, Богоявление), the Wedding at Cana, Jesus Proclaims the Kingdom, the Transfiguration (Преображение) and the Institution of the Eucharist.
Closing Prayer JOYFUL MYSTERIES: It is truly proper to glorify thee, who hast borne God, the ever-blessed and immaculate and the Mother of our God! More honorable than the cherubim and beyond compare more glorious than the seraphim art thou, who without corruption gavest birth to God the Word. Thou truly the Mother of God, we magnify!
SORROWFUL MYSTERIES: We fly to thy patronage, O holy Mother of God. Despise not our prayers in our necessities but deliver us from all danger, O glorious and ever-blessed Virgin.
+ Most holy Mother of God, save us. (Three times with bows)
GLORIOUS MYSTERIES: To thee, the Champion Leader, we thy servants dedicate a feast of victory and thanksgiving as ones rescued out of sufferings, O Mother of God: but as one with invincible might, from all dangers deliver us that we may cry to thee: Rejoice, O Unwedded Bride!

[Blonde]

I don't understand, "Most holy Mother of God, save us."
Nor do I understand, "We magnify the Mother of God."
Hoping in Mary, we will not perish? Through her we are delivered? She is the salvation of Christians?

I don't understand any of this. I thank you, though, for taking the time to post it.

[jckstraw72]

yes those things cna be very hard for a non-Orthodox to understand.

we magnify her bc she magnified God -- as St. Paul tells his congregations to follow his example, so we see Mary's example as one to be followed. In Orthodoxy she is considered the highest of the Saints, and thus we magnify her bc she more than anyone else magnifies God.

We ask her to "save us" by her prayers -- as James tells us the prayers of the righteous are efficacious and none besides Christ is more righteous than she. We say we are delivered through her and she is our salvation because she said yes to God, thereby allowing Christ into the world which is the beginning of our salvation. we recognize ONLY Christ as our savior, but we also recognize her important role in that, and we tend to like to use flowery language about it.

[Rowan]

The Eastern Rosary
St. Seraphim of Sarov prayed the Rosary daily!
The Russian ‘Rule of the Mother of God’ consists of praying 150 ‘Rejoice, O Virgin Mother of God’ prayers a day.


I..don't think that's the one we're talking about.

This is what I was talking about, at least:

http://www.westernorthodox.com/rosary.html

This is the form that St. Seraphim advised his spiritual children to pray.

I ran into the one you posted before, and all it seemed to be was the rosary with some Eastern prayers tacked on ^_^ Still, I don't see anything theologically wrong with the RC way sans the imagination.

[Silentchapel]

The Eastern RosarySt. Seraphim of Sarov prayed the Rosary daily!
What is the source for this? While St. Seraphim did recommend daily 150 'O Virgin Theotokos' separated by certain prayers, this 'Eastern Rosary' is filled with little Latin prayers/devotions most probably not used by St. Seraphim.
Btw - I've seen this question asked over and over again, and it being ignored over and over again:
What about Divine Mercy chaplet?

[Rowan]

Btw - I've seen this question asked over and over again, and it being ignored over and over again:
What about Divine Mercy chaplet?

I didn't mean to ignore it. I was just unfamiliar with it and didn't get a chance to research it.

Looking at it now, the spirit seems to be similar to the recitation of the Jesus Prayer, only made for liturgical use.

Excuse me for unworthily dissecting this prayer, but can someone please explain the use of "I" in this recitation?:

"Then on the Our Father Beads say the following:
Eternal Father, I offer You the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Your dearly beloved Son, Our Lord Jesus Christ, in atonement for our sins and those of the whole world."

http://www.ewtn.com/Devotionals/mercy/dmmap.htm

[Silentchapel]

I didn't mean to ignore it. I was just unfamiliar with it and didn't get a chance to research it.

Looking at it now, the spirit seems to be similar to the recitation of the Jesus Prayer, only made for liturgical use.

Excuse me for unworthily dissecting this prayer, but can someone please explain the use of "I" in this recitation?:

"Then on the Our Father Beads say the following:
Eternal Father, I offer You the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Your dearly beloved Son, Our Lord Jesus Christ, in atonement for our sins and those of the whole world."

http://www.ewtn.com/Devotionals/mercy/dmmap.htm

I apologize, that post of mine sounded plain nasty. >_>
Anway... I had a talk with a priest about DM chaplet. His thoughts:

"I offer... prayer. Only Christ can offer something like that. Not us.
For the sake... prayer. It is essentially doctirne of merits. By using the merits of Christ's death we obtian mercy. A more Orthodox prayer would be "You suffered for us - have mercy on us and the whole world."
Also, Faustina's visions are tad odd. According to the priest, Jesus keeps telling her how special she is (along the lines of "I cannot resist any request you make")."

Also, a quote (http://our.homewithgod.com/divinemercy/book6/) from her diary: "I cannot love a soul which is stained with sin" Kinda weird - whom did Christ love when He died on the Cross? His Immaculate Mother? But then, why die for an immaculate person?

[MsDahl]

If I'm not mistaken, although the prayers of the Catholic Rosary are Orthodox in content, the method of meditation used in praying the Rosary is not, because in Orthodoxy we discourage any use of the imagination in prayer. Using the imagination in prayer apparently invites demonic deception.

From Hmk. Seraphim of Platina's biography:


I'm curious, what is meant by 'the use of imagination in prayer' here?

[Silentchapel]

I'm curious, what is meant by 'the use of imagination in prayer' here?
Essentially, that you're imagining God, Saints and Angels or any other manifestation of prayer (external or internal). A person using this method might imagine (for example) Christ sitting on a throne and sending rays of light upon the supplicant, or the Theotokos tearfully praying, or imagining Gospel scenes or whatever. It is essentially a deception. Read this (http://www.myriobiblos.gr/texts/english/symeon_threeways.html).

[MoNiCa4316]

Essentially, that you're imagining God, Saints and Angels or any other manifestation of prayer (external or internal). A person using this method might imagine (for example) Christ sitting on a throne and sending rays of light upon the supplicant, or the Theotokos tearfully praying, or imagining Gospel scenes or whatever. It is essentially a deception. Read this (http://www.myriobiblos.gr/texts/english/symeon_threeways.html).

What if you're not trying to imagine anything but it just comes to you? :confused: Haven't there been Orthodox saints who have had visions?

[Silentchapel]

Well, that's something else. You can prevent imagination, but you can't prevent a vision - but extreme care should be taken by visions as well. I dunno who said it: "If it's from God, I'm not worthy. If it's from demons I do not want it."

[MoNiCa4316]

Well, that's something else. You can prevent imagination, but you can't prevent a vision - but extreme care should be taken by visions as well. I dunno who said it: "If it's from God, I'm not worthy. If it's from demons I do not want it."

I agree....I would say though that no one is worthy, but people have still had visions from God. Technically we're not worthy of salvation either :) it's not about us or our worth. We could never deserve any of this.

[IgnatiusOfAntioch]

What about the chaplet of Divine Mercy?


:)




The Divine Mercy Chaplet can be said using either a Chotki or western style rosary.

1. Make the Sign of the Cross

In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.
2. Our Father

Our Father, Who art in heaven, hallowed be Thy name; Thy kingdom come; Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread; and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us; and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil, Amen.
3. Hail Mary

Hail Mary, full of grace. The Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou amongst women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death, Amen.
4. The Apostle's Creed

I believe in God, the Father Almighty, Creator of Heaven and earth; and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, Our Lord, Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified; died, and was buried. He descended into Hell; the third day He arose again from the dead; He ascended into Heaven, sitteth at the right hand of God, the Father Almighty; from thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy Catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting. Amen.
5. The Eternal Father

Eternal Father, I offer you the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Your Dearly Beloved Son, Our Lord, Jesus Christ, in atonement for our sins and those of the whole world.
6. On the Ten Small Beads of Each Decade

For the sake of His sorrowful Passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.
7. Repeat for the remaining decades

Saying the "Eternal Father" (6) on the "Our Father" bead and then 10 "For the sake of His sorrowful Passion" (7) on the following "Hail Mary" beads.
8. Conclude with Holy God

Holy God, Holy Mighty One, Holy Immortal One, have mercy on us and on the whole world.


---------
All blessings and many years to my brothers and sisters at TAW.

[All4Christ]

Say I wanted to pray one of the Orthodox versions of the rosary. Or - the Chaplet of Divine Mercy. Can I use a rosary given to me from a Catholic friend?

[jckstraw72]

Say I wanted to pray one of the Orthodox versions of the rosary. Or - the Chaplet of Divine Mercy. Can I use a rosary given to me from a Catholic friend?

i have a little finger Rosary that i got my priest to bless and i sometimes use it for the Jesus Prayer.

[MsDahl]

Essentially, that you're imagining God, Saints and Angels or any other manifestation of prayer (external or internal). A person using this method might imagine (for example) Christ sitting on a throne and sending rays of light upon the supplicant, or the Theotokos tearfully praying, or imagining Gospel scenes or whatever. It is essentially a deception. Read this (http://www.myriobiblos.gr/texts/english/symeon_threeways.html).


I finally got around to reading the link. This does clarify what you are stating here. However, what I got from the first version [of attention and prayer] is not just imagination but standing upright with hands outstretched to heaven looking to God with his sensual eyes. When I think of imagination, I think along the lines of a photogenic memory where one brings forth the images of the icons, the cross, et cetera while in prayer with the eyes closed. This does not seem at all dangerous to me as we use icons in our physical worship.

I did have a question though (for anyone to answer), how can we know if we are truly praying in our hearts and not our minds? (If this is becoming to OT from the OP, please let me know if I should start a new thread).

[Blonde]

Not off topic.......think freely...........

[Xpycoctomos]

id say theres nothing theologically wrong with it, but i just think its weird to spend more time asking Mary to pray for you than to be actually praying to God yourself. but i think St. Seraphim of Sarov had a prayer rule that was similar to the rosary.
I think a lot of very devout Orthodox from times past would strongly strongly disagree with you. i mean, if we follow what you're saying, isn't wierd to pray an akathist to the Mother of God or the our Guardian Angel?

I don't think there's anything wierd about it at all. I think it is one of the very natural things for any Christian to do.

[Xpycoctomos]

we Orthodox have a rosary of our own. we have ample prayers for our own prayer rope without going elsewhere... at least that's what i was told by my priest.

in IC XC,
michael
What Rosary? Are you referring to the one St Seraphim of Sarov said in Aria's posts earlier?

[jckstraw72]

I think a lot of very devout Orthodox from times past would strongly strongly disagree with you. i mean, if we follow what you're saying, isn't wierd to pray an akathist to the Mother of God or the our Guardian Angel?

i think if you spend more time doing that than actually praying to God that its off-balanced. there was a podcast on ancient faith radio about this not too long ago, ill see if I can find it.

like i wouldnt spend hours asking someone here on earth to pray for me, and then only pray to God myself for 5 minutes.

[Protoevangel]

I think a lot of very devout Orthodox from times past would strongly strongly disagree with you. i mean, if we follow what you're saying, isn't wierd to pray an akathist to the Mother of God or the our Guardian Angel?

I don't think there's anything wierd about it at all. I think it is one of the very natural things for any Christian to do.

i think if you spend more time doing that than actually praying to God that its off-balanced. there was a podcast on ancient faith radio about this not too long ago, ill see if I can find it.

like i wouldnt spend hours asking someone here on earth to pray for me, and then only pray to God myself for 5 minutes.

Xpycoctomos,

I think jckstraw has a good point. Pray the Akathist to the Theotokos and your Guardian Angel, but don't skip your home prayers to God, Vespers, Orthros, and the Divine Liturgy.

[Xpycoctomos]

Xpycoctomos,

I think jckstraw has a good point. Pray the Akathist to the Theotokos and your Guardian Angel, but don't skip your home prayers to God, Vespers, Orthros, and the Divine Liturgy.
Well, I admit I misunderstood what he was saying, to a point. I thought he meant

i think if you spend more time doing that than actually praying to God that its off-balanced...

...WITHIN the rosary. And I thought, well, within the Akathist I spend more time asking Mary for herprayers than actually praying directly Christ. To be sure, the prayers in Akathist to the Theotokos are not exclusively to her, but there are many to God. But, the same is true for the Rosary.

However, now that I see that what he meant was the greater context of one's prayer life, I still stand by what I say. Granted, many Catholics may pretty much only say the Hail Mary daily and then spend 5 min talking to God... but this is not at all the fault of the actual prayer anymore than it would be for an Orthodox who pretty much only stuck to the Akathist on a daily basis. It's a misunderstanding of it's intent. The devout Catholics I have become closely acquainted with over the past 10 years have a very healthy balance within their prayerlife(that is, healthy according to what Jackstraw described as preferable). They don't just pray the Rosary. They have many other prayers, most of which are to God. However, I suppose that's only anecdotal and then we can argue about whose experience is a more valid representation of what's really going on in the common RC de facto practice reagarding the Hail Mary and it would just go on and on.

The point is simply that the Rosary provides no more a threat to a well-balanced prayer life than does the Akathist to the Theotokos.

Personally I think it's very beautiful and I think it is a crying shame that so many Catholics have abandoned the practice in the last couple generations. I think it might be directly related to the poor state of the RCC in the Western Hemisphere. Fortunately, many Catholics have picked it back up and my experience tells me that these are also the Catholics who are very weary of any modernism creeping into their parishes. They are also more focused on the Eucharist. What I am saying is taht the fruits of the prayer seem to be indeed very holy and good.

I used pray it when I belonged to a Catholic prayer group a few years back on my old campus. It helped me a lot in my relationship with Mary. I don't any more partly because I am lazy but mostly because it's not really an integral part to the Eastern context of the Orthdoox faith as we have our own expressions of love for Mary, like the Akathist. So, if I were to expend the energy and not be so lazy, and since I don't have any context in which the Rosary makes sense to pray (as I did when I met with the Catholics on a weekly basis), I would pray an Akathist.

With all of that said, I second whoever else it was who said that they didn't like the "promises" or whatever they are (if you pray so many Rosaries every day, this will happen). I'm not into that. Seems AMAZINGLY presumptive. I should say, however, that I have run across that wierdness a few times on the Orthodox side as well.

Xpy

[Xpycoctomos]

i think if you spend more time doing that than actually praying to God that its off-balanced. there was a podcast on ancient faith radio about this not too long ago, ill see if I can find it.

like i wouldnt spend hours asking someone here on earth to pray for me, and then only pray to God myself for 5 minutes.
But why do you think Catholics are doing taht with the Rosary. The Rosary in and of itself doesn't demand you pray it more than other prayers. Nor does the Vatican from anythign I ahve seen. It asks you to pray it a lot, sure. But not exclusively nor at teh expense of other prayers.

I think we hear a lot about the rosary from the Vatican these days becuase up until recently, the lay people of the RCC had virtually abandoned it, and the RCC is, rightfully so, working hard to encourage her people to use it.

[jckstraw72]

But why do you think Catholics are doing taht with the Rosary. The Rosary in and of itself doesn't demand you pray it more than other prayers. Nor does the Vatican from anythign I ahve seen. It asks you to pray it a lot, sure. But not exclusively nor at teh expense of other prayers.

i dont know, maybe it was just a false assumption on my part. i apologize for any offense to any Catholics reading this.