What Does God Want?

[BenAdam]

A friend of mine thinks that God wants him to be happy. I disagree, I think God wants His children to grow. I'm not saying God doesn't want us to be happy, I'm saying our temporal happyness is of no real concern. Children will be happy if you serve them ice cream for dinner every day, but it will only really harm them. Thoughts?

[woden]

How can God's children "grow" if they are not happy? Grow in what sense? Physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually? Was not Jesus happy in doing his Father's will despite all that it entailed? Did he not teach his followers to be happy, even when being persecuted?

What lack of happiness do you really mean?

[BenAdam]

How can God's children "grow" if they are not happy? Grow in what sense? Physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually? Was not Jesus happy in doing his Father's will despite all that it entailed? Did he not teach his followers to be happy, even when being persecuted?

What lack of happiness do you really mean?
Jesus was happy to do the Father's will even though it meant His discomfort and death. My friend is talking about his temporal happyness. He doesn't believe that anything which may cause discomfort, denial, etc. can be from God. IOW, instant gratification. Maturity brings patience and perspective.

[Tamara224]

I think God wants us to be loving, joyful, peaceful, patient, kind, good, faithful, gentle and self-controlled.

Although joyfullness is on the list of the fruits of the Spirit... it's not quite the same thing as what most people today call happiness. IMO.

But in one way, I would say that God wants us to be happy. He wants us to be joyfull no matter what our circumstances. In 2 Corinthians 6, Paul described himself as "sorrowful, yet always rejoicing", which, IMO, is a pretty profound statement.

The thing about joy, though, is that it is a sign of maturity. And unlike happiness (at least in our current vernacular) joy is not dependent on getting what we want or everything going well in our lives.

[BenAdam]

You mean like count it all joy when you fall into various trials?

[Tamara224]

You mean like count it all joy when you fall into various trials?


Yeah, that's part of it.

In my experience, the statement "God wants us to be happy" is used to mean "God is going to give me what I want so that I will be happy."

Which is not really true at all.

What is true is that God will give us what we need to teach us to be happy/joyfull even when we're being fed to the lions.

True happiness is a state of mind, not a living condition. If that makes any sense.

[BenAdam]

Yeah, that's part of it.

In my experience, the statement "God wants us to be happy" is used to mean "God is going to give me what I want so that I will be happy."

Which is not really true at all.

What is true is that God will give us what we need to teach us to be happy/joyfull even when we're being fed to the lions.

True happiness is a state of mind, not a living condition. If that makes any sense.
It makes sense, but I also think that we can be totally miserable and be in God's will. The misery comes from our wanting to be comfortable, but God's will is being fulfilled. I hated math in school. I saw no purpose, totally tedious and IMO a waste of time. I look back now and realize how incredible the things I learned were and how necessary as well.

So how could my parents that love me made me so miserable? Because my misery was selfishness, they made me go to school despite my feelings for my benefit.

Now as Christians, how much does God do for our benefit that feels miserable to us?

[jeolmstead]

I think God created Adam to fellowship with him. His (Adam’s) temporal needs where never the focus if the relationship, yet, Adam lacked nothing.

I think that this is “what God wants” from us. He wants to restore that original purpose of our creation.

Is this not the essence found in what Jesus said:

Matthew 6:32-34 (New International Version)

32 For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. 34Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.

Apparently pagans run after “things” Believers walk with God and all their needs are provided.

John O.

[Tamara224]

It makes sense, but I also think that we can be totally miserable and be in God's will. The misery comes from our wanting to be comfortable, but God's will is being fulfilled. I hated math in school. I saw no purpose, totally tedious and IMO a waste of time. I look back now and realize how incredible the things I learned were and how necessary as well.

So how could my parents that love me made me so miserable? Because my misery was selfishness, they made me go to school despite my feelings for my benefit.

Now as Christians, how much does God do for our benefit that feels miserable to us?

Using your analogy... did your parents want you to be miserable? Was that their motivation in making you learn math? Of course not. They wanted you to learn math. It was your own choice to be miserable in it. They would have preferred that you enjoyed learning math.

So it is with God, imo. He sets before us things that He wants for us, which are for our good. We choose whether we are going to be joyfull in them or miserable in them.

So when I say "God wants us to be happy", what I mean is God wants us to choose to be happy regardless of our circumstances. He wants us to joyfully apply ourselves to learning math.

It's weird that this subject should come up right now. I just this morning finished reading "Perelandra" by C.S. Lewis (book 2 in his Space trilogy) and a very similar discussion comes up in that book. It centers around desiring what God has for us rather than dreading or running from it or desiring something else. IMO, Lewis was spot-on... The idea is that everything God gives us is good (even the dangerous or risky things) but we can make it bad by desiring a previous good rather than the good immediately before us. It was analogized to waves in the ocean - and desiring a wave that has already passed to come again. And to fruit - desiring a different fruit than the one that is available. In that way we pervert the good that is past or distant and miss the joy of the one immediately before us.

[BenAdam]

Using your analogy... did your parents want you to be miserable? Was that their motivation in making you learn math? Of course not. They wanted you to learn math. It was your own choice to be miserable in it. They would have preferred that you enjoyed learning math.

So it is with God, imo. He sets before us things that He wants for us, which are for our good. We choose whether we are going to be joyfull in them or miserable in them.

So when I say "God wants us to be happy", what I mean is God wants us to choose to be happy regardless of our circumstances. He wants us to joyfully apply ourselves to learning math.

It's weird that this subject should come up right now. I just this morning finished reading "Perelandra" by C.S. Lewis (book 2 in his Space trilogy) and a very similar discussion comes up in that book. It centers around desiring what God has for us rather than dreading or running from it or desiring something else. IMO, Lewis was spot-on... The idea is that everything God gives us is good (even the dangerous or risky things) but we can make it bad by desiring a previous good rather than the good immediately before us. It was analogized to waves in the ocean - and desiring a wave that has already passed to come again. And to fruit - desiring a different fruit than the one that is available. In that way we pervert the good that is past or distant and miss the joy of the one immediately before us.
Agreed, I do not think God wants us to be miserable, but our misery doesn't factor into what He wants for us. We have turned our lives over to Him. We can go with it, or fight it. The former is what a mature person does.

I love Perelandra. My favorite line (if I recall correctly) is "My name is Ransom too".

[Tamara224]

Agreed, I do not think God wants us to be miserable, but our misery doesn't factor into what He wants for us. We have turned our lives over to Him. We can go with it, or fight it. The former is what a mature person does.

Exactly :thumbsup:

I love Perelandra. My favorite line (if I recall correctly) is "My name is Ransom too".

Yeah, that sent a chill through me when I read it last night.

[BenAdam]

So my contention is that, immature people are concerned about happyness.

[The Lord is my banner]

So my contention is that, immature people are concerned about happyness.

Outrageous statement! :P

I'll forgive you, since you and Tamara and I are the only 3 people I've ever met who have read and enjoyed Perelandra! (I assume you both read the other two as well?)

[BenAdam]

Outrageous statement! :P

I'll forgive you, since you and Tamara and I are the only 3 people I've ever met who have read and enjoyed Perelandra! (I assume you both read the other two as well?)
The only C.S. Lewis book better than Pereladra is That Hideous Strength. :)

[Tamara224]

Outrageous statement! :P

I'll forgive you, since you and Tamara and I are the only 3 people I've ever met who have read and enjoyed Perelandra! (I assume you both read the other two as well?)


I am just now reading That Hideous Strength for the first time. I read Out of the Silent Planet and Perelandra when I was a teenager. Most of it went so far over my head that I didn't even realize I was missing anything. For some reason I never finished reading the third one back then.

But I'm loving them now!

[Andry]

You mean like count it all joy when you fall into various trials?
Here's one to stir the pot.....

Jesus did not come to take crisis out of our lives; He came to put crisis into our lives.

[BenAdam]

Here's one to stir the pot.....

Jesus did not come to take crisis out of our lives; He came to put crisis into our lives.
Ooo getting trickey here, by this I assume you mean: a crucial stage or turning point in the course of something

Jesus tells us to take up our cross daily. The Cross is an instrument of death.

[Simon_Templar]

I think God wants us to be truly happy, the problem is that we often don't know what true happiness is.

Using the analogy of the parents and the kid... your kid would be temporarily happy eating ice cream for every meal.. but you as a parent know that if you allowed that temporary happiness, it would lead to much greater unhappiness later.

It would lead to your kid getting sick, being over weight, which in turn would hurt their self image and deny them opportunity to partake in sports and other athletic activities, and would eventually bring on a host of illnesses such as diabetes, high blood pressure, etc etc etc.

Your goal is for your kid to achieve a greater happines through having a healthy life, healthy emotions etc and being able to take opportunities that come their way.

your kid thinks that Ice Cream will make him happy, but you know that the initial happines of that will fade quickly to be replaced by long term unhappiness of much worse sorts.

It is like this with God.. we think that if we can have this or that, it will make us happy.. but God knows that real happiness isn't to be found in those things, but comes from strength of character and depth of faith. Ultimately its to be found in him, and to the degree that those other things distract us, they are our enemy.

We have to grow, in order to be able to have greater depth of fellowship with him.. just like a kid can't eat ice cream all the time, and never exercise, and expect to partake in an athletic event, or have success in a sport.

We like to imagine that we don't have to grow spiritually, and can just automatically partake in all of God's depth and glory. We don't have to put anything into it, and we can just experience him.

It doesn't work that way. Just like everything else in life, you yourself have to be ready in order to partake.

This isn't about works. Its not about having to earn it.. its about being in a condition where you can actually enjoy it and be a part of it.

Its a hard balance to strike, but there is a difference between thinking "I have to be righteous in order to earn God's favor" and thinking "I have to embrace the righteousness that God is enabling me towards, so that I can enjoy his presense and his favor".

[jeolmstead]

Ooo getting trickey here, by this I assume you mean: a crucial stage or turning point in the course of something

Jesus tells us to take up our cross daily. The Cross is an instrument of death.
Yes, but we die in order to live!

John O.

[BenAdam]

Yes, but we die in order to live!

John O.
amen :amen:

[ANM29]

To Love him with everything we are and our neighbors as ourselves. Also, to allow him to love us. Maybe that should have went before the next line. You can't fall in love with God, until you begin to realize how much he is already in love with you. :)

[NorrinRadd]

Yeah, that's part of it.

In my experience, the statement "God wants us to be happy" is used to mean "God is going to give me what I want so that I will be happy."

Which is not really true at all. ....

Erk!

Years ago, I had a friend who was having marital troubles. He told me something along the lines, of, "God wants us to have joy, but I'm not having joy with my wife, but I do have joy when I'm with this other girl, so..."

Thanks a heckuva lot for the flashback! :doh:


(After a brief separation and some struggles, things turned out well for the couple, just so you know.)

[BenAdam]

Erk!

Years ago, I had a friend who was having marital troubles. He told me something along the lines, of, "God wants us to have joy, but I'm not having joy with my wife, but I do have joy when I'm with this other girl, so..."

Thanks a heckuva lot for the flashback! :doh:


(After a brief separation and some struggles, things turned out well for the couple, just so you know.)
Wow, I have had people tell me the exact same thing, but with different results in the end sadly.

[ydouxist]

What does God want?
This sums it up

"Across a chasm of eighteen hundred years, Jesus Christ makes a demand which is beyond all others to satisfy;
He asks for that which a philosopher may seek in vain at the hands of his friends,
or a father of his children, or a bride of her spouse, or a man of his brother.
He asks for the human heart; He will have it entirely to Himself.
He demands it unconditionally; and forthwith His demand is granted. Wonderful!
In defiance of time and space, the soul of man, with all its powers and faculties, becomes an annexation to the empire of Christ.
All who sincerely believe in Him, experience that remarkable, supernatural love toward Him.
This phenomenon is accountable; it is altogether beyond the scope of man's creative powers.
Time, the great destroyer, is powerless to extinguish this sacred flame;
time can neither exhaust its strength nor put a limit to its range."

Napoleon Bonaparte

[BenAdam]

That is pretty amazing considering the source.

[jeolmstead]

My friend Wayne says:

“God only wants from me that which I’m unwilling to give”


John O.

[ydouxist]

That is pretty amazing considering the source.


I know.
Here's another one.
They are in the book Evidence that demands a verdict by Josh Mcdowell.

"Alexander, Caesar, Charlemagne and I myself have founded great empires;
but upon what did these creations of our genius depend? Upon force.
Jesus alone founded His empire upon love, and to this very day millions will die for Him....
I think I understand something of human nature; and I tell you, all these were men, and I am a man:
none else is like Him; JesusChrist was more than man."

Napoleon Bonaparte

[NorrinRadd]

Hos. 6:6 For I desire mercy, not sacrifice,
and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings.


Mic 6:8 He has shown all you people what is good.
And what does the LORD require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy
and to walk humbly with your God.

[Andry]

He wants this:

Matt 23:23
"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone."

(And no, not in the context of the tithe.)