Didn't go through with confirmation

[glamourdollxoxo]

Are there any other Lutherans who didn't go through with confirmation or communion? I was baptised as a Lutheran, but I never went through with confirmation or anything.

[DaRev]

Why not?

[RadMan]

Are there any other Lutherans who didn't go through with confirmation or communion? I was baptised as a Lutheran, but I never went through with confirmation or anything.Interesting that you should say that since you have a Lutheran icon. Are you a member of a Lutheran church? If you are, how did you manage to become a member without confirmation?

[PreachersWife2004]

You can be a member of a Lutheran church without being confirmed (at least in our church you can). You just aren't allowed at the communion table and for the male non-confirmed member, you don't have voting or office-holding privileges.

[DaRev]

You can be a member of a Lutheran church without being confirmed (at least in our church you can). You just aren't allowed at the communion table and for the male non-confirmed member, you don't have voting or office-holding privileges.

One would be considered a "baptized member." My question is why would someone not want to confirm their faith in the Church.

[RadMan]

You can be a member of a Lutheran church without being confirmed (at least in our church you can). You just aren't allowed at the communion table and for the male non-confirmed member, you don't have voting or office-holding privileges.So then what constitutes being a member? Just going to church and contributing money? Not sure I understand.

[DaRev]

So then what constitutes being a member? Just going to church and contributing money? Not sure I understand.

Baptism is the normal entry into the Church.

[PreachersWife2004]

One would be considered a "baptized member." My question is why would someone not want to confirm their faith in the Church.

Precisely. I never really had a choice - my parents made me go to confirmation classes...not that I didn't want to, but even if I hadn't wanted to, I would've had to go. Luckily for me, and my parents, I was very eager to be confirmed.

It will be interesting to hear any reasons as to why not get confirmed. I imagine one would be not wanting to attend classes, whether as a teen or an adult.

[RadMan]

Baptism is the normal entry into the Church.OK---I thought that the confirmation of faith and upholding the church's belief through communion was part of membership. I must have missed what you mentioned in the church constitution.

[DaRev]

OK---I thought that the confirmation of faith and upholding the church's belief through communion was part of membership. I must have missed what you mentioned in the church constitution.

That's communicant membership.

[PreachersWife2004]

OK---I thought that the confirmation of faith and upholding the church's belief through communion was part of membership. I must have missed what you mentioned in the church constitution.

As far as we're concerned, we have two kinds of members, confirmed (also known as communicant) members and baptized members.

The confirmed members get to take communion, vote and/or hold offices within the church hierarchy (if they are male). Baptized (but not confirmed) members are counted on the roster but are not allowed at the table (as they lack the public profession of faith and unity that is confirmation) nor are they allowed to hold positions or vote (if they are male).

For example, we list 81 members. Of those 81 members, 70 are communicant members. Four of the non-communicant members are children. We have families where both spouses were baptized, but only one is confirmed. We have a family right now who is all baptized but only the son is confirmed and the parents are taking the confirmation classes.

Hope that helps explain things a bit.

[RadMan]

As far as we're concerned, we have two kinds of members, confirmed (also known as communicant) members and baptized members.

The confirmed members get to take communion, vote and/or hold offices within the church hierarchy (if they are male). Baptized (but not confirmed) members are counted on the roster but are not allowed at the table (as they lack the public profession of faith and unity that is confirmation) nor are they allowed to hold positions or vote (if they are male).

For example, we list 81 members. Of those 81 members, 70 are communicant members. Four of the non-communicant members are children. We have families where both spouses were baptized, but only one is confirmed. We have a family right now who is all baptized but only the son is confirmed and the parents are taking the confirmation classes.

Hope that helps explain things a bit.OK thanks----Other than being saved what rights do a baptized member have other than just attending church? If they are saved then why can't they be communed with the same confession of faith at the altar. So if I was baptized and confessed the same faith at the altar I should be able to take communion without being confirmed.

[DaRev]

OK thanks----Other than being saved what rights do a baptized member have other than just attending church? If they are saved then why can't they be communed with the same confession of faith at the altar. So if I was baptized and confessed the same faith at the altar I should be able to take communion without being confirmed.

Communion requires a confession of faith from the recipient. Those who are baptized have that confession made in their stead. Once they are instructed in the faith and are able to confirm their baptismal faith made in their stead, they are then able to receive the Sacrament according to Christ's command.

[PreachersWife2004]

OK thanks----Other than being saved what rights do a baptized member have other than just attending church? If they are saved then why can't they be communed with the same confession of faith at the altar. So if I was baptized and confessed the same faith at the altar I should be able to take communion without being confirmed.

Certainly one could wonder why someone would get baptized but not confirmed into a church. I don't run into that much. As I said, we have a family where the parents and the son got baptized the same day the son got confirmed and the parents are now attending a membership class.

Another thing to bear in mind is that a baptized member doesn't necessarily have to be baptized IN THAT CHURCH. We have a couple of members who were baptized as Catholics. They are still members of our church, but have not made the declaration of faith needed to commune with us.

[DaRev]

Certainly one could wonder why someone would get baptized but not confirmed into a church. I don't run into that much. As I said, we have a family where the parents and the son got baptized the same day the son got confirmed and the parents are now attending a membership class.

This must be a difference between the WELS and the LCMS. In the LCMS adults and older children are instructed prior to baptism so that their baptism and confirmation are at the same time. They then become communicant members at their baptism and can receive the Sacrament.

[LilLamb219]

Are there any other Lutherans who didn't go through with confirmation or communion? I was baptised as a Lutheran, but I never went through with confirmation or anything.

I went through it...but I was scared to because I heard there were tests involved and the pastor could refuse to confirm you....but I am glad I went through it because the tests were super easy and the pastor was wonderful.

Since you are an adult now, have you considered going to an Adult Inquirers class at a local Lutheran church and getting confirmed that way? It's a lot easier and you learn TONS!! :)

[MarkRohfrietsch]

So then what constitutes being a member? Just going to church and contributing money? Not sure I understand.
In my Church we have three types of membership:

Baptized
Communicant
Voting (must be communicant over the age of 18 and have read the constitution, and signed it) In our directory we also have a listing called friends of the Congregation. These are regular attenders who either have not decided yet to join, or those going through instruction to join. They are not "officially" members, but this does get them on the phone list, they get a mail box, and it makes them feel part of the community (which they are).

Mark

[PreachersWife2004]

We have "friends of Mt Olive", too. We have several people who attend church on a fairly regular basis but for whatever reason aren't interested in becoming official members. They get our newsletter and any special mailings we send out, and they are listed on the church directory as "friends of Mt Olive".

In my Church we have three types of membership:
Baptized
Communicant
Voting (must be communicant over the age of 18 and have read the constitution, and signed it)In our directory we also have a listing called friends of the Congregation. These are regular attenders who either have not decided yet to join, or those going through instruction to join. They are not "officially" members, but this does get them on the phone list, they get a mail box, and it makes them feel part of the community (which they are).

Mark

[PreachersWife2004]

This must be a difference between the WELS and the LCMS. In the LCMS adults and older children are instructed prior to baptism so that their baptism and confirmation are at the same time. They then become communicant members at their baptism and can receive the Sacrament.

I don't know if that's the absolute rule or not...I think Matt gives people the option, but if someone wants to be baptized and confesses Christ Matt won't make them wait until they're done taking the confirmation class.

I've seen it done both ways in a couple of different churches. I guess it's more the person's preference than anything.

[DaRev]

I don't know if that's the absolute rule or not...I think Matt gives people the option, but if someone wants to be baptized and confesses Christ Matt won't make them wait until they're done taking the confirmation class.

I've seen it done both ways in a couple of different churches. I guess it's more the person's preference than anything.

The way we teach it is that Baptism and teaching go hand in hand. If an individual is able to be instructed prior to Baptism, they must be. Children are instructed up to the point they can comprehend depending on age. Adults go through regular adult instruction prior to Baptism. It goes in line with the Biblical premise of "confess and be Baptized." Those who are not able to make that confession on their own (infants) are Baptized prior to instruction, with the confession being made in their stead by those who have the authority to speak for them. Those who are able to make their confession on their own are instructed prior to baptism.

[RadMan]

I don't know if that's the absolute rule or not...I think Matt gives people the option, but if someone wants to be baptized and confesses Christ Matt won't make them wait until they're done taking the confirmation class.

I've seen it done both ways in a couple of different churches. I guess it's more the person's preference than anything.And that was the essence of my question and the quandary. If I was baptised in any church , since baptism is of God, and came to your church and confessed my agreement of the Lutheran beliefs then why would that keep me from taking communion. I wouldn't have to take confirmation then. In essence that is what Matt is saying. I have confessed my beliefs and was baptized and it has nothing to do with my denom background.

I'm not trying to be difficult but just trying to figure this out.

[DaRev]

And that was the essence of my question and the quandary. If I was baptised in any church , since baptism is of God, and came to your church and confessed my agreement of the Lutheran beliefs then why would that keep me from taking communion. I wouldn't have to take confirmation then. In essence that is what Matt is saying. I have confessed my beliefs and was baptized and it has nothing to do with my denom background.

I'm not trying to be difficult but just trying to figure this out.

I would have to ask where you obtained your understanding of Lutheran beliefs from. As the pastor, I would have to thoroughly examine you in order to know whether or not you truly know and understand the Lutheran teachings so that you could adequately make that public confession of faith by kneeling at the altar to receive the Sacrament. Simply being baptized and stating "I believe in the Lutheran beliefs" doesn't necessarily warrant automatic admittance to the table.

[Edial]

Are there any other Lutherans who didn't go through with confirmation or communion? I was baptised as a Lutheran, but I never went through with confirmation or anything.
I am not certain if I went through confirmation,

Pastor said that I do not need to go to the confirmation classes and when I became a member I was asked questions concerning my faith.

Was I confirmed?

Thanks, :)
Ed

[DaRev]

I don't know about the ELCA, but in the LCMS adults can be brought into membership a few different ways. All must be baptized, that's a given. Communicant membership can be through regular Confirmation, Reaffirmation of Faith (usually for those who have been away from the Church for a time), or Confession of Faith, which sounds like what you did. These would have to be determined by the pastor after thorough examination.

[PreachersWife2004]

The way I see it is this way:

To be baptized, you need only confess Christ as your savior. That faith is all that is needed, whether as a baby or as an adult. So, if someone wished to be baptized and confessed Christ, they can be baptized.

Confirmation, however, delves into the doctrine of the church, as well as matters of faith. One doesn't need to know the doctrine of the Lutheran church to be baptized.

That's why we don't make people wait to be baptized until they have completed the confirmation instruction.

I think Matt has joked before that if someone came to his door, confessed Christ and asked to be baptized that he would do it. Obviously he would encourage them to come to church, but there would be no requirement that they become a member of our church before they could be baptized.

[PreachersWife2004]

And that was the essence of my question and the quandary. If I was baptised in any church , since baptism is of God, and came to your church and confessed my agreement of the Lutheran beliefs then why would that keep me from taking communion. I wouldn't have to take confirmation then. In essence that is what Matt is saying. I have confessed my beliefs and was baptized and it has nothing to do with my denom background.

I'm not trying to be difficult but just trying to figure this out.

If you have confessed, publicly, your agreement with the Lutheran church, then you have essentially been confirmed.

There are many different ways to be confirmed...it doesn't always have to be a 6 week long course or a three year course.

My own dad didn't take any courses. He came from the ALC and his pastor asked him a couple of key questions and based on my dad's answers he was made a member. That's a bit different, since he came from a Lutheran background, but the principle is the same.

[Edial]

I don't know about the ELCA, but in the LCMS adults can be brought into membership a few different ways. All must be baptized, that's a given. Communicant membership can be through regular Confirmation, Reaffirmation of Faith (usually for those who have been away from the Church for a time), or Confession of Faith, which sounds like what you did. These would have to be determined by the pastor after thorough examination.
Good ... now I can go back to fighting in that thread with a clear conscience.

[MarkRohfrietsch]

I went through it...but I was scared to because I heard there were tests involved and the pastor could refuse to confirm you....but I am glad I went through it because the tests were super easy and the pastor was wonderful.

Since you are an adult now, have you considered going to an Adult Inquirers class at a local Lutheran church and getting confirmed that way? It's a lot easier and you learn TONS!! :)

It is a lot easier as an adult. When I was confirmed we were "examined" facing the congregation ant the front of the Church, during a regular service. We were terrorized, but what a sense of achievement when we were finished. I also think that knowing we had to do this, made us more serious about learning our stuff.

Mark

[BigNorsk]

People baptized in a Lutheran congregation that don't take confirmation are pretty common actually. Just often not that visible because many of them are not sitting in a Lutheran pew, though some are.

Confirmation isn't an absolute requirement. It's not a sacrament like the Catholics teach, though you maybe wouldn't know that in some congregations.

It's retained not because it's commanded but because a time of more intense study usually with the pastor but at least with a fairly learned adult is a very useful thing. Even though many don't use it for quite a few years after their confirmation.

Sometimes it's almost scary that even with confirmation how little the average Lutheran seems to understand and retain, but if you go to other groups then you often see real lack of knowledge, though not always.

The name confirmation really comes from the person confirming their baptism, during which they typically were too young to speak for themselves.

In many congregations, confirmation has really become kind of linked to communion and a rite of passage as well, but again there is no commandment of God doing so.

Could I ask the OP why?

Marv

[filosofer]

Might be worth treating the young people as adults. Those who have visions of inflicting terror on the youngsters ("Like we were!") have often advocated examinations in front of the church for the youth. I agree to do that, but if any youth misses any question, anyone in the congregation is free game for me to ask them in front of the congregation. No one has urged "youth examinations" in front of the congregation since.

[DaRev]

The way I see it is this way:

To be baptized, you need only confess Christ as your savior. That faith is all that is needed, whether as a baby or as an adult. So, if someone wished to be baptized and confessed Christ, they can be baptized.

Confirmation, however, delves into the doctrine of the church, as well as matters of faith. One doesn't need to know the doctrine of the Lutheran church to be baptized.

That's why we don't make people wait to be baptized until they have completed the confirmation instruction.

I think Matt has joked before that if someone came to his door, confessed Christ and asked to be baptized that he would do it. Obviously he would encourage them to come to church, but there would be no requirement that they become a member of our church before they could be baptized.

Traditionally, the Church has used Baptismal interrogation as the means of making that confession of faith in Christ. This is based on the Scriptural premise of "confess and be baptized." The Baptismal Rite has always included this interrogation in the form of the Apostle's Creed which was developed for the purpose of Baptismal interrogation. It would require one to be able to make such a confession. Infants and small children have those questions answered by one who has authority to speak for them. Older children and adults answer for themselves, thus it is necessary to understand what it is they are agreeing to. This is why the LCMS has traditionally instructed Baptismal candidates prior to Baptism. It's actually an ancient practice.

[PreachersWife2004]

Let me ask you this, Rev...

Would you make someone take confirmation classes because they came to you and asked you to baptize them? Would they HAVE to become a member of your church before you would grant them a baptism?

[DaRev]

Let me ask you this, Rev...

Would you make someone take confirmation classes because they came to you and asked you to baptize them? Would they HAVE to become a member of your church before you would grant them a baptism?

Baptism makes them a member of the Church (baptized member). If they wanted to be baptized but didn't want to be a member of the Church, I wouold question their motive and ask why they want to be baptized.

As I said before, baptism and instruction go hand in hand according the the Scriptures. In the case of those who cannot yet be instructed in the faith, their confession is made for them by one who has the authority to speak for them. Part of this is the promise to raise the child in the faith and teach them all that Christ commands according to the Scriptures.
In the case of those who can speak for themselves, they would need to be instructed in the faith in order to confess the faith on their own. This is the same instruction the preceeds confirmation. (Confirmation is just the personal reaffirmation of one's baptismal confession.)

They would not necessarily need to join our congregation, but as I said I would question them as to why they want to be baptized if they have no intention of joining the Church.


The short answer to your question is Yes, older children and adults need to be instructed before Baptism.

[BigNorsk]

Might be worth treating the young people as adults. Those who have visions of inflicting terror on the youngsters ("Like we were!") have often advocated examinations in front of the church for the youth. I agree to do that, but if any youth misses any question, anyone in the congregation is free game for me to ask them in front of the congregation. No one has urged "youth examinations" in front of the congregation since.



I had to smile at this. Ever been tempted to have a drop quiz from the pulpit?

You, you and you get up here and answer some questions.

I'm not sure if everyone would come to see, or if they would not come to avoid. Might get people to pay attention during the sermons.

Marv

[porterross]

Might be worth treating the young people as adults. Those who have visions of inflicting terror on the youngsters ("Like we were!") have often advocated examinations in front of the church for the youth. I agree to do that, but if any youth misses any question, anyone in the congregation is free game for me to ask them in front of the congregation. No one has urged "youth examinations" in front of the congregation since.


How about the confirmands quizzing the congregation instead? I would bet that a fair number of those confirmed as teens would be caught off guard. ;)

[DaRev]

How about the confirmands quizzing the congregation instead? I would bet that a fair number of those confirmed as teens would be caught off guard. ;)

Ha! The next quiz I send the Kidlet I'll send a copy for you as well. :P

[glamourdollxoxo]

Thanks for your input everyone with me I was baptised when I was about five years old, but my family stopped attending church after that so I've kind of been on my own until now that I'm in college and I have attended the Lutheran church, but I haven't gotten up early enough for the 9 o clock service where I'm assuming they do communion. I have done open communion at the non denominational campus church that I attend. It's something I will deffiantly look into though.

[DaSeminarian]

Might be worth treating the young people as adults. Those who have visions of inflicting terror on the youngsters ("Like we were!") have often advocated examinations in front of the church for the youth. I agree to do that, but if any youth misses any question, anyone in the congregation is free game for me to ask them in front of the congregation. No one has urged "youth examinations" in front of the congregation since.



Since the Six chief parts are what we teach them, I thought that each of them needs to learn them and at examination time they come into a room with me and pick a piece of paper out of the hat that has the numbers 1-6. Whichever number they get is the chief part they have to tell me about in their own words in 5 minutes.

I got the idea of doing this from our Church History prof who made us do two oral presentations for our final.

[RadMan]

Traditionally, the Church has used Baptismal interrogation as the means of making that confession of faith in Christ. This is based on the Scriptural premise of "confess and be baptized." The Baptismal Rite has always included this interrogation in the form of the Apostle's Creed which was developed for the purpose of Baptismal interrogation. It would require one to be able to make such a confession. Infants and small children have those questions answered by one who has authority to speak for them. Older children and adults answer for themselves, thus it is necessary to understand what it is they are agreeing to. This is why the LCMS has traditionally instructed Baptismal candidates prior to Baptism. It's actually an ancient practice.I thought it was "confess" your sins. Didn't know you had to have a creedal confession. Is that Biblical? I must have missed that

[RadMan]

Thanks for your input everyone with me I was baptised when I was about five years old, but my family stopped attending church after that so I've kind of been on my own until now that I'm in college and I have attended the Lutheran church, but I haven't gotten up early enough for the 9 o clock service where I'm assuming they do communion. I have done open communion at the non denominational campus church that I attend. It's something I will deffiantly look into though.Welcome. haven't seen you around here before. :)

[DaSeminarian]

Traditionally, the Church has used Baptismal interrogation as the means of making that confession of faith in Christ. This is based on the Scriptural premise of "confess and be baptized." The Baptismal Rite has always included this interrogation in the form of the Apostle's Creed which was developed for the purpose of Baptismal interrogation. It would require one to be able to make such a confession. Infants and small children have those questions answered by one who has authority to speak for them. Older children and adults answer for themselves, thus it is necessary to understand what it is they are agreeing to. This is why the LCMS has traditionally instructed Baptismal candidates prior to Baptism. It's actually an ancient practice.


Though it was a part of the Catechesis prior to St. Augustine, it was he who really changed the way that catechumens were interviewed. Before Augustine, catechumens were interrogated. People like Hippolytus laid great stress on this interrogation and his questions focused on lifestyle and profession. Augustine, by contrast, was more concerned with motive. The interrogation was not of the catechumen so much as it was the person who brought them.

[Radiata]

Interesting that you should say that since you have a Lutheran icon. Are you a member of a Lutheran church? If you are, how did you manage to become a member without confirmation?
Quick story. My father teaches confirmation at my church. Yet he is not a member. He still doesn't even consider himself Lutheran. He just says that he is a Christian and not part of any denomination. What's funny is that I asked him a few of the basic Lutheran beliefs. I asked: Do you believe in scripture? Yes. Do you believe in all of scripture? Yes. Do you believe that we are governed by scripture alone? Yes. Do you believe that the sacraments are not merely symbolic and that the Holy Spirit is truly at work in them? Yes. "Then guess what, you are Lutheran." I told him.

Just the next week, the executive director of my church, Joe, said that he was just going to add him as a member. He teaches a membership class and yet he was not a member. That was good enough.

[PreachersWife2004]

Baptism makes them a member of the Church (baptized member). If they wanted to be baptized but didn't want to be a member of the Church, I wouold question their motive and ask why they want to be baptized.

As I said before, baptism and instruction go hand in hand according the the Scriptures. In the case of those who cannot yet be instructed in the faith, their confession is made for them by one who has the authority to speak for them. Part of this is the promise to raise the child in the faith and teach them all that Christ commands according to the Scriptures.
In the case of those who can speak for themselves, they would need to be instructed in the faith in order to confess the faith on their own. This is the same instruction the preceeds confirmation. (Confirmation is just the personal reaffirmation of one's baptismal confession.)

They would not necessarily need to join our congregation, but as I said I would question them as to why they want to be baptized if they have no intention of joining the Church.


The short answer to your question is Yes, older children and adults need to be instructed before Baptism.

If one comes to you and says "I have sinned. I believe Jesus died on the cross for my sins. I believe that he is the son of God and that my faith is through the Holy Spirit. I want to be baptized." you would deny them that baptism unless they submitted to further instruction?

[CaliforniaJosiah]

My "path" was pretty unusual.....

When I was 12 or so, my father (a Protestant minister) assumed my Religion part of my homeschooling. Mom had used CPH Lutheran school materials since kindergarten, so Dad just continued that. The materials then were all designed for Confirmation, so he and I did the whole Confirmation thing together - including memorizing some stuff in Luther's Small Catechism - but, of course, no one in the family was Lutheran.

Later, Dad (who has a doctorate in church history with an emphasis on the Reformation) has always had a huge respect for Luther and Lutherans - especially in the area of theology, and again, my training had been from that perspective. So, we ordered two sets of F. Pieper's Christian Dogmatics - the books used in conservative Lutheran seminaries to train pastors. For three solid years, we made our way, together, page by page, through those 3 volumns. Occasionally, Dad (not being Lutheran) would not be exactly sure what Pieper was getting at, and so discussions would be made with my grandfather (a retired Lutheran pastor) or the LCMS pastor in town with whom my father is personal friends - but usually, we were fine. My dad is one TOUGH teacher (unlike my mom who was pretty easy). He didn't always agree with Pieper (occasionally thinking the Lutheran position too narrow or too defined), and he has some liberal and Calvinist leanings, but generally we both were pretty impressed with the word and the positions.

I eventually drifted into the Lutheran church (that happened when I was active posting in this forum, so the few still around from those days might remember that), and eventually in the LCMS congregation to which I now belong. The pastor there and I had ENDLESS discussions since I has hesitent to join or be Confirmed unless I could do so with a clear commitment. In those discussions, he invited me to be Confirmed and join - and when I asked about classes he insisted none was needed, that my training was far greater than is typical among Lutheran youth or adults upon joining.

Last Spring, after I had been "excused" from this website so none of you were "in" on that phase of things, I finally decided I desired to be Confirmed in the Lutheran Church and to officially join. I again asked about classes and the pastor replied, "To teach?" He stated that none was needed and that he'd include me in the next group of adults being Confirmed. And I was.



MY boring story...



Pax


- Josiah




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