pagan-copycat theories

[visionary]

How many are there?

[ChavaK]

How many are there?

Maybe you can explain the question? :confused:

[visionary]

The word, Easter is from the goddess Eostra, Ishtar or Astarte.

Pagan copycat theories? Did Christianity copy pagan... it is a theory or is it truth?

[ContraMundum]

There's dozens of copycat theories about Yeshua. There's a whole movement about it. I'd link to it for discussion but I think that would be out of line.

There's also copycat theories about Judaism too- lots of them.

[christinepro]

There's dozens of copycat theories about Yeshua. There's a whole movement about it. I'd link to it for discussion but I think that would be out of line.

There's also copycat theories about Judaism too- lots of them.

How about true stories like Henry the 8th?

[Tishri1]

tell us:wave:

[christinepro]

tell us:wave:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_VIII_of_England

[Tishri1]

I didnt see it can you copy about 10% so I have a place of reference when looking(or a link to exactly what you want us to see)
thanks Sis:hug:

[dvd_holc]

How many are there?This my experience and what I know....My wife worked with a Mongolian (Hindu or Buddhist) who does not have sacrificial lambs in her religions, and she once asked her, “What does it mean that Jesus is the Lamb?”. So how do you tell her what God did 2000 years ago in Judea? How do you get a message from one culture to another? You turn the symbols of one culture that resemble yours into your symbols; into your symbols. You might have introduced new things, but foundation is in the existing culture…

I once started a book called Eternity in Their Hearts: Startling Evidence of Belief in the One True God in Hundreds of Cultures Throughout the World that is very interesting. The author discusses certain historical records in many different cultures (like the story around Mars Hill having a shrine to the unknown (G)od) and also accounts of missions of Christians to other cultures.

I find in the whole history of the world God’s hand is active in His living Torah teaching people how to live and producing shadows of what He has done in Christ. For instance, in Bible Review February 1997 Thomas Schmidt wrote Jesus’ Triumphal March to the Crucifixion The Sacred Way as Roman Procession. In this article, Thomas outlines how Mark parallel’s how a Roman general or emperor would parade through Rome, putting their accomplishments on display for the populace in a ceremony that was symbolic of Dionysus, dying and rising god. I can send you this article to anyone or outline it…but we get at the end of it with a Roman says, “Truly this is the (S)on of (G)od.”

David, Shalom

[visionary]

Did that person get lead out or was it a confirmation of what they already believed and they were told they did not have to change?

[christinepro]

I didnt see it can you copy about 10% so I have a place of reference when looking(or a link to exactly what you want us to see)
thanks Sis:hug:

What part would you like to see? The part where he was the head of the Church of England, had his wife executed or married six times?

[Colabomb]

What part would you like to see? The part where he was the head of the Church of England, had his wife executed or married six times?

Ah yes, instead of discussing the issue at hand, we have another opportunity to cut at Contra's Anglicanism.

Perhaps we'd like to talk about what Certain Jewish Leaders have done? You know, the whole leading the nation into idolatry thing?

In fact one of the Greatest Heroes of Judaism AND Christianity (David), had a man killed so he could have his wife.

If we are going to attack Anglicans for Henry's indiscretions, we open quite the Pandora's box.

Yeah, maybe we should stop attacking groups based on the sins of individuals, and get back to the conversation at hand.

[QuantaCura]

There's a common one floating around today that attributes Christianity to Mithraism, but in reality it seems like the copy-catting is the reverse.

As an aside, it is really only English speaking places that call the Feast of the Ressurection "Easter." Most use words derived from "Passover."

Here's some info on different languages.

The Greeks called Easter the pascha anastasimon; Good Friday (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06643a.htm) the pascha staurosimon. The respective terms used by the Latins are Pascha resurrectionis and Pascha crucifixionis. In the Roman and Monastic (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10459a.htm) Breviaries (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02768b.htm) the feast (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06021b.htm) bears the title Dominica Resurrectionis; in the Mozarbic Breviary (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02768b.htm), In Lætatione Diei Pasch (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11512b.htm) Resurrectionis; in the Ambrosian Breviary (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02768b.htm), In Die Sancto Paschæ. The Romance languages have adopted the Hebrew-Greek term: Latin, Pascha; Italian, Pasqua; Spanish, Pascua; French, Also some Celtic and Teutonic nations use it: Scottish (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13613a.htm), Pask; Dutch (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10759a.htm), Paschen; The correct word in Dutch is actually Paasen Danish (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04722c.htm), Paaske; Swedish (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14347a.htm), Pask; even in the German provinces of the Lower Rhine the people call the feast (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06021b.htm) Paisken not Ostern. The word is, principally in Spain (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14169b.htm) and Italy (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08208a.htm), identified with the word "solemnity" and extended to other feasts (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06021b.htm), e.g. Sp., Pascua florida, Palm Sunday (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11432b.htm); Pascua de Pentecostes, Pentecost; Pascua de la Natividad, Christmas (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03724b.htm); Pascua de Epifania, Epiphany (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05504c.htm).

[QuantaCura]

Atheist apologists have a tendency to take things out of context to make it look like the the Gospels are derived from pagan sources--they bring up God-men, resurrections, virgin births, etc. However, in most cases, on closer review, there is little similarity. Monotheism in general is also attacked with such accusations but the refutations are similar as well.

Plus monotheism makes sense from a rational standpoint as well--as the Apostle discusses in Romans. It makes sense that the one God would be discovered by others. Aristotle did so for example. I'll see if I can dig it up, but there is a quote from a Mayan ruler before Christians arrived where he rejects the worship of wood and stone creations of man for the worship of the unknown God, just as we see being done in Acts 17. Such people worshiped the true God without knowing it.

[Colabomb]

Such people worshiped the true God without knowing it.

Indeed.

[Colabomb]

There's a theory i've heard that The Jews were not originally monotheistic, but rather had a chief God and over time the lesser gods simply disappeared.

I obviously disagree with that, but its interesting.

[dvd_holc]

Did that person get lead out or was it a confirmation of what they already believed and they were told they did not have to change?The Mongolian...no, she has not become a believer. She is good friends with my wife. My wife can communicate well but does not grasp theology in a way to explain it outside of how she learned it. I want to explain it to her (my wife's friend)...but lack the opportunity. But maybe some day...

[visionary]

Ac 12:4 And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people. Is this resurrection day? Is this a mistranslation and it really should read passover or.....

The word "Easter" here does NOT refer to Easter as we know it nor does it refer to the Passover as it is wrongly translated in other Bible versions.

In the passage Acts 12:1-4, King Herod killed James and when he saw that it pleased the Jews, he took Peter DURING the DAYS OF UNLEAVENED BREAD and was going to bring him forth to the people AFTER Easter.

Easter could not be Passover because Passover occurs BEFORE the days of unleavened bread which is when they arrested Peter. Passover had come and gone. Herod decided to bring Peter forth AFTER Easter. This is the sequence:

1. PASSOVER

2. DAYS OF UNLEAVENED BREAD

3. EASTER

Passover only comes once a year on one day, the 14th of Abib ( Num 28:16). After the Passover comes the days of unleavened bread (Numbers 28:17) for the fifteenth through the twentieth day of Abib. So when Peter was arrested during the days of unleavened bread (Acts 12:3) Passover had come and gone! The Bible says that Herod was going to bring him forth AFTER Easter which had not come yet.

When the AKJV says EASTER in Acts 12:4 it is correct. When the other versions say PASSOVER in Acts 12:4 they are incorrect. Easter in this passage is referring to the pagan festival (remember the etymology says that the pagan Easter is almost coincident with paschal (passover)...

King Herod was a pagan, not a Jewish believer, so he would not have respected the Passover of the Jews. Because of his paganism, Herod would be involved with the worship of Isthar or Astarte, the Chaldean name for the “Queen of Heaven.”

Acts 12:3 is an important key to properly understanding the reason for retaining “Easter.” The last sentence in the verse states then were the days of unleavened bread. The reader should note the word days. The Passover occurred before the feast of unleavened bread on the 14th day of the first month of the Jewish calendar. Peter was put into prison during the days of unleavened bread, and therefore after the Passover had been celebrated.

[Colabomb]

Is this resurrection day? Is this a mistranslation and it really should read passover or.....

The word "Easter" here does NOT refer to Easter as we know it nor does it refer to the Passover as it is wrongly translated in other Bible versions.

In the passage Acts 12:1-4, King Herod killed James and when he saw that it pleased the Jews, he took Peter DURING the DAYS OF UNLEAVENED BREAD and was going to bring him forth to the people AFTER Easter.

Easter could not be Passover because Passover occurs BEFORE the days of unleavened bread which is when they arrested Peter. Passover had come and gone. Herod decided to bring Peter forth AFTER Easter. This is the sequence:

1. PASSOVER

2. DAYS OF UNLEAVENED BREAD

3. EASTER

Passover only comes once a year on one day, the 14th of Abib ( Num 28:16). After the Passover comes the days of unleavened bread (Numbers 28:17) for the fifteenth through the twentieth day of Abib. So when Peter was arrested during the days of unleavened bread (Acts 12:3) Passover had come and gone! The Bible says that Herod was going to bring him forth AFTER Easter which had not come yet.

When the AKJV says EASTER in Acts 12:4 it is correct. When the other versions say PASSOVER in Acts 12:4 they are incorrect. Easter in this passage is referring to the pagan festival (remember the etymology says that the pagan Easter is almost coincident with paschal (passover)...

King Herod was a pagan, not a Jewish believer, so he would not have respected the Passover of the Jews. Because of his paganism, Herod would be involved with the worship of Isthar or Astarte, the Chaldean name for the “Queen of Heaven.”

Acts 12:3 is an important key to properly understanding the reason for retaining “Easter.” The last sentence in the verse states then were the days of unleavened bread. The reader should note the word days. The Passover occurred before the feast of unleavened bread on the 14th day of the first month of the Jewish calendar. Peter was put into prison during the days of unleavened bread, and therefore after the Passover had been celebrated.

Eh, we borrowed a name. It happens.

Christianity has always "Baptised" paganism. We admit to it. We take things that are evil and remake them in the image of Christ.

[visionary]

Eh, we borrowed a name. It happens.

Christianity has always "Baptised" paganism. We admit to it. We take things that are evil and remake them in the image of Christ.ok... so there is one believer who sees paganism practised in Christianity today.

[Colabomb]

The Pagans worship false gods, demons masquerading as gods, darkness imitating light.

We honor the True God, the Creator of Heaven and Earth, the God of Abraham, who suffered and died on the tree at Calvary.

If you call worship of Him paganism......


We reorient things that are evil and make them Good, we point them away from falsehood and towards Christ.

[christinepro]

Ah yes, instead of discussing the issue at hand, we have another opportunity to cut at Contra's Anglicanism.

Perhaps we'd like to talk about what Certain Jewish Leaders have done? You know, the whole leading the nation into idolatry thing?

In fact one of the Greatest Heroes of Judaism AND Christianity (David), had a man killed so he could have his wife.

If we are going to attack Anglicans for Henry's indiscretions, we open quite the Pandora's box.

Yeah, maybe we should stop attacking groups based on the sins of individuals, and get back to the conversation at hand.
Sounds good to me!! He started it:

ContraMundum http://www3.christianforums.com/images/userinfo/mod.jpg vbmenu_register("postmenu_42197611", true);
O For a Heart to Praise my God
http://www3.christianforums.com/images/userinfo/Male.gif http://www3.christianforums.com/images/userinfo/Anglican.gif

There's dozens of copycat theories about Yeshua. There's a whole movement about it. I'd link to it for discussion but I think that would be out of line.

There's also copycat theories about Judaism too- lots of them.

[Colabomb]

Sounds good to me!! He started it:

ContraMundum http://www3.christianforums.com/images/userinfo/mod.jpg vbmenu_register("postmenu_42197611", true);
O For a Heart to Praise my God
http://www3.christianforums.com/images/userinfo/Male.gif http://www3.christianforums.com/images/userinfo/Anglican.gif

There's dozens of copycat theories about Yeshua. There's a whole movement about it. I'd link to it for discussion but I think that would be out of line.

There's also copycat theories about Judaism too- lots of them.


Started What? Contra is actually one of few messianic JEWS on the board.

He's not saying he believes them, he was just adding to the conversation :doh:

[zaksmummy]

How is the Adversary going to lead people away from worshipping God in Spirit and in Truth?

By making it look like there are lots of gods or people just like Yeshua, then he cannot make a unique claim to be the Messiah.

On the point about paganism and Christianity, God says in the Tanakh that he hates paganism, so much that he destroyed people and places so that he wouldnt have it interfere with the children of Israel. In the New Testament Yeshua said you cannot serve two masters, he was talking about money, but the principle is the same.

Adopting pagan ritual and mixing it with Yeshua has kept many people from the straight and narrow path.

[christinepro]

Started What? Contra is actually one of few messianic JEWS on the board.

He's not saying he believes them, he was just adding to the conversation :doh: I like the Anglican Church and have always talked highly of them. I find the people to be very warm and friendly and any Christian can take the bread and the wine. My kids went to Anglican Sunday School. It's what we do now not what is in the past.

[Tishri1]

Ah yes, instead of discussing the issue at hand, we have another opportunity to cut at Contra's Anglicanism.

Perhaps we'd like to talk about what Certain Jewish Leaders have done? You know, the whole leading the nation into idolatry thing?

In fact one of the Greatest Heroes of Judaism AND Christianity (David), had a man killed so he could have his wife.

If we are going to attack Anglicans for Henry's indiscretions, we open quite the Pandora's box.

Yeah, maybe we should stop attacking groups based on the sins of individuals, and get back to the conversation at hand.I had no idea this was a lead in to a personal attack, I saw us looking back in time to beliefs of paganism that copy or lead into Christianity, I expected to find some beginning of the worship of something with the Henry link....thats all

Didnt even see any link to my good friend (((((((((((((Levi))))))))))))))))))

never would have suspected one too:wave:

[Tishri1]

There's a theory i've heard that The Jews were not originally monotheistic, but rather had a chief God and over time the lesser gods simply disappeared.

I obviously disagree with that, but its interesting.Friend could you provide us with a viable link, it kinda is necessary if we are to take it seriously:thumbsup: thanks:hug:

[Tishri1]

Awesome Explanation Vis, thanks:thumbsup:Is this resurrection day? Is this a mistranslation and it really should read passover or.....

The word "Easter" here does NOT refer to Easter as we know it nor does it refer to the Passover as it is wrongly translated in other Bible versions.

In the passage Acts 12:1-4, King Herod killed James and when he saw that it pleased the Jews, he took Peter DURING the DAYS OF UNLEAVENED BREAD and was going to bring him forth to the people AFTER Easter.

Easter could not be Passover because Passover occurs BEFORE the days of unleavened bread which is when they arrested Peter. Passover had come and gone. Herod decided to bring Peter forth AFTER Easter. This is the sequence:

1. PASSOVER

2. DAYS OF UNLEAVENED BREAD

3. EASTER

Passover only comes once a year on one day, the 14th of Abib ( Num 28:16). After the Passover comes the days of unleavened bread (Numbers 28:17) for the fifteenth through the twentieth day of Abib. So when Peter was arrested during the days of unleavened bread (Acts 12:3) Passover had come and gone! The Bible says that Herod was going to bring him forth AFTER Easter which had not come yet.

When the AKJV says EASTER in Acts 12:4 it is correct. When the other versions say PASSOVER in Acts 12:4 they are incorrect. Easter in this passage is referring to the pagan festival (remember the etymology says that the pagan Easter is almost coincident with paschal (passover)...

King Herod was a pagan, not a Jewish believer, so he would not have respected the Passover of the Jews. Because of his paganism, Herod would be involved with the worship of Isthar or Astarte, the Chaldean name for the “Queen of Heaven.”

Acts 12:3 is an important key to properly understanding the reason for retaining “Easter.” The last sentence in the verse states then were the days of unleavened bread. The reader should note the word days. The Passover occurred before the feast of unleavened bread on the 14th day of the first month of the Jewish calendar. Peter was put into prison during the days of unleavened bread, and therefore after the Passover had been celebrated.

[YahshuaWitness]

Christmas

Jeremiah 10
1 HEAR THE word which the Lord speaks to you, O house of Israel.
2 Thus says the Lord: Learn not the way of the [heathen] nations and be not dismayed at the signs of the heavens, though they are dismayed at them,
3 For the customs and ordinances of the peoples are false, empty, and futile; it is but a tree which one cuts out of the forest [to make for himself a god], the work of the hands of the craftsman with the ax or other tool.
4 They deck [the idol] with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers so it will not fall apart or move around.
5 [Their idols] are like pillars of turned work [as upright and stationary and immobile as a palm tree], like scarecrows in a cucumber field; they cannot speak; they have to be carried, for they cannot walk. Do not be afraid of them, for they cannot do evil, neither is it possible for them to do good [and it is not in them].

[Colabomb]

Making it clear, i don't believe this.

http://www.class.uidaho.edu/ngier/henotheism.htm

[Colabomb]

Christmas

Jeremiah 10
1 HEAR THE word which the Lord speaks to you, O house of Israel.
2 Thus says the Lord: Learn not the way of the [heathen] nations and be not dismayed at the signs of the heavens, though they are dismayed at them,
3 For the customs and ordinances of the peoples are false, empty, and futile; it is but a tree which one cuts out of the forest [to make for himself a god], the work of the hands of the craftsman with the ax or other tool.
4 They deck [the idol] with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers so it will not fall apart or move around.
5 [Their idols] are like pillars of turned work [as upright and stationary and immobile as a palm tree], like scarecrows in a cucumber field; they cannot speak; they have to be carried, for they cannot walk. Do not be afraid of them, for they cannot do evil, neither is it possible for them to do good [and it is not in them].


The key difference being, no one worships a christmas tree.

If I were carving a false god out of it you'd have a point. Otherwise, you are simply mangling scripture out of context to make it fit your opinion.

[Tishri1]

Making it clear, i don't believe this.

http://www.class.uidaho.edu/ngier/henotheism.htmthank you cola:hug:

[christinepro]

Making it clear, i don't believe this.

http://www.class.uidaho.edu/ngier/henotheism.htm

God has taken his place in the divine council; in the midst of the gods he holds judgment.
– Ps. 82:1
Yes there are other gods but no other God; Elohim which is plural Yahweh, Yeshua, Ruach HaKodesh.:bow::bow::bow:

[ContraMundum]

How about true stories like Henry the 8th?

What's that got to do with the topic?

[ContraMundum]

I like the Anglican Church and have always talked highly of them.

I like it too- but don't always speak well of it, ironically. Still, when no one else would have me, they took me in and I'm grateful. They also let me be myself and as a minister that is a huge bonus.

christinepro- I don't think anyone in their right mind would say it's a perfect place- it's not. Our history goes back to the first missionaries to Britain (traditionally Joseph of Arimethea and Paul) and the whole Henry XIII episode is pretty much seen as not terribly influential in the long run and really just a bump in the middle section of the long history of the Anglican church. But still, I digress.

The whole copycat thing is a pet topic of mine. When I first converted my family went straight for me from that perspective. I studied and agonised over it for years, along with other topics like the criticism of the NT and the role of tradition in the Judeo-Christian religion. I'm a great opponent to the copycat theories, and staunch supporter of the NT and believe tradition has a role in theology, albeit a subordinate one. Hope that helps clear up where I'm coming from.

Cheers!

[ContraMundum]

God has taken his place in the divine council; in the midst of the gods he holds judgment.
– Ps. 82:1
Yes there are other gods but no other God; Elohim which is plural Yahweh, Yeshua, Ruach HaKodesh.:bow::bow::bow:



Ever had a look at other translations of tha verse or perhaps a more traditionally Jewish understanding?

One way to translate it is this way: "God stands in the Divine Assembly; in the midst of judges shall He judge". The confusion seems to occur over the word Elohim, which also can mean judges. This is why many understand this Psalm as being directed towards magistrates and judges. This means there is only One God, not many little gods, and He stands in the midst of the Divine Assembly. This would reconcile well with verses like:

"And there is no other God besides Me, A righteous God and a Savior; There is none except Me." Isaiah 45:21

"I am The Lord, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God." Isaiah 45:5

"Is there any God besides Me, Or is there any other Rock? I know of none." Isaiah 44:8

"I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is no one like Me" Isaiah 46:9

Just food for thought.

[christinepro]

Ever had a look at other translations of tha verse or perhaps a more traditionally Jewish understanding?

One way to translate it is this way: "God stands in the Divine Assembly; in the midst of judges shall He judge". The confusion seems to occur over the word Elohim, which also can mean judges. This is why many understand this Psalm as being directed towards magistrates and judges. This means there is only One God, not many little gods, and He stands in the midst of the Divine Assembly. This would reconcile well with verses like:

"And there is no other God besides Me, A righteous God and a Savior; There is none except Me." Isaiah 45:21

"I am The Lord, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God." Isaiah 45:5

"Is there any God besides Me, Or is there any other Rock? I know of none." Isaiah 44:8

"I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is no one like Me" Isaiah 46:9

Just food for thought.
Ysshua is referred to as the Rock too, isn't he? In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. HaShem in my Tanach is Yud Hey Vav Hey. There is also Adonai Elohim.

Do you think there is really a Molech or any of the other gods mentioned in the Bible. What made people worship them? Maybe they are evil demons? What do you think?

[ContraMundum]

Ysshua is referred to as the Rock too, isn't he? In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. HaShem in my Tanach is Yud Hey Vav Hey. There is also Adonai Elohim.

Amen- there's lots of good verses to demonstrate the plurality of the One God.

Do you think there is really a Molech or any of the other gods mentioned in the Bible. What made people worship them? Maybe they are evil demons? What do you think?

I tend to think that the reason people worship/ped false "gods" was/is not only Satanic deception and Demons but also our fallen nature, with its powerful inclination to evil and emnity with God which will invent "gods" to worship just so we don't have to make a commitment to change our sinful ways.

[Ivy]

And I think, also, it's part of the fallen human impulse to "make" God be as we would have him, rather than as He is.

Humans tend to want a god they can control.....i.e., I do such-and-so and the god "has" to respond in the manner I want. Like a handy household god who has to do our bidding.

[Ivy]

This my experience and what I know....My wife worked with a Mongolian (Hindu or Buddhist) who does not have sacrificial lambs in her religions, and she once asked her, “What does it mean that Jesus is the Lamb?”. So how do you tell her what God did 2000 years ago in Judea? How do you get a message from one culture to another? You turn the symbols of one culture that resemble yours into your symbols; into your symbols. You might have introduced new things, but foundation is in the existing culture…

I once started a book called Eternity in Their Hearts: Startling Evidence of Belief in the One True God in Hundreds of Cultures Throughout the World that is very interesting. The author discusses certain historical records in many different cultures (like the story around Mars Hill having a shrine to the unknown (G)od) and also accounts of missions of Christians to other cultures.

I find in the whole history of the world God’s hand is active in His living Torah teaching people how to live and producing shadows of what He has done in Christ. For instance, in Bible Review February 1997 Thomas Schmidt wrote Jesus’ Triumphal March to the Crucifixion The Sacred Way as Roman Procession. In this article, Thomas outlines how Mark parallel’s how a Roman general or emperor would parade through Rome, putting their accomplishments on display for the populace in a ceremony that was symbolic of Dionysus, dying and rising god. I can send you this article to anyone or outline it…but we get at the end of it with a Roman says, “Truly this is the (S)on of (G)od.”

David, Shalom

I've heard that the Scripture that says Yeshua "led capivity captive" was intended to link to this exact image of the times.

[christinepro]

Amen- there's lots of good verses to demonstrate the plurality of the One God.



I tend to think that the reason people worship/ped false "gods" was/is not only Satanic deception and Demons but also our fallen nature, with its powerful inclination to evil and emnity with God which will invent "gods" to worship just so we don't have to make a commitment to change our sinful ways.

I agree!:thumbsup:

[YahshuaWitness]

YAHVEH the Father+YAHVEH the Son+ YAHVEH the Holy Spirit= ONE