Charismatic Gifts

[winsome]

Charismatic Gifts

We are used to the idea that the Holy Spirit gives us charismatic gifts.

“To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. To one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, 10to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the discernment of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11All these are activated by one and the same Spirit, who allots to each one individually just as the Spirit chooses.” (1 Cor 12:7-11).

However I think there can be some misunderstanding about this. It can sound as if the Holy Spirit gives out gifts like sweets, distributing them here and there almost at random. In Life In The Spirit Seminars we used to be asked, on the Baptism In The Spirit session, what gifts we would like - a bit like asking Santa for presents at Christmas.

Some time ago I heard a talk about this saying that when we receive the Holy Spirit we receive all the gifts, because it is the Holy Spirit who has the gifts and so if we have the Holy Spirit active within us then we have all the gifts. It more a matter of how the Holy Spirit wants to use us. I think when we talk about having a gift (i.e. on a permanent basis) we are really talking about ministry, which is service, attending to others. The gift is the authority and power (or abilities or talents) to carry out a particular ministry, whether that be a ministry of healing, or prophecy, or teaching, music etc.

On the other hand the Holy Spirit can use us in a particular gift in a one-off or occasional way. We may not have a ministry of healing but may still get a call to pray over a particular person, at a particular time for healing, or to utter prophecy, or a word of knowledge “out of the blue” so to speak.

When St. Paul says “And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers; then deeds of power, then gifts of healing, forms of assistance, forms of leadership, various kinds of tongues. Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret? (1 Cor 12:28-30) I think he is saying that some are called to one ministry, some to another.

A ministry is a calling to serve in a particular way. When people are called to serve we would normally expect some discernment and formation; discernment by the person who thinks they are called, and by competent authorities; formation in that calling. We can see this particularly in callings to the priesthood or religious life. After the initial step there is ongoing discernment and formation to the point where those people are formally accepted in their calling.

Do we see anything like this in ministries using charismatic gifts?

We see this recognition in scripture in one place at least - in Acts 13:1
“Now in the church at Antioch there were prophets and teachers: Barnabas, Simeon who was called Niger, Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen a member of the court of Herod the ruler, and Saul.”

So there were people who were recognised as prophets, and when they spoke in the Lord’s name people believed and acted on their words. Acts continues:

“While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, “Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.” Then after fasting and praying they laid their hands on them and sent them off.”

Do we have people in our prayer groups who are recognised as prophets (for example)? How do we discern them?

In the early days of renewal all this was new and people learned "on the job”, and I suppose that is still valid, but I think by now there should also be some more formal way of those in ministry passing on what they have learned to others. I do see some of this, but not much.

Just a few ramblings. Any thoughts?

[CatholicFlame]

I agree with you wholeheartledly Winsome. The gifts are meant for the whole body of the Church, but one person can't do everything. Each has a role to play.

About asking for particular gifts like asking Santa, lol well actually I see that as kind of an young way to seek the gifts. A more mature christian would ask God what He wanted them to have. But of course, the Lord still provides. Unless of course by answering your prayer it would cause you or others some harm. He is wise about to whom and to what He gives gifts.

Thank you for this post, there is alot of understanding it what you have told us. Praise the Lord brother and come here more often! I can see that you have been in the renewal for awhile now. All of us rookies need people like you around to help us grow and use our gifts.

[isabella1]

I think many people, after being baptized in the Holy Spirit have a hard time finding a prayer group that has good leadership, and is consistent in nurturing and helping your giftings to grow and mature.

Of course the leadership must recognize the giftings in their members, that the members themselves perhaps dont even know they have, and encourage growth in that area.

I happened to be vary blessed in finding a prayer group that the leadership cared so much about our Lords work, that they had teachings, and hands on practice, for helping the members grow in their giftings. But now that I moved, I am having a difficult time finding a prayer group that advanced in the Lords work and that structured.

Just reflecting on my experiences. Peace and Blessings.:angel:
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[CatholicFlame]

Yes Good leadership is realy needed. Ya know I feel so strongly that lay people like ourselves should be stepping up and either helping existing ministries or maybe even starting new ministries. We need people with both maturity and a heart to want to help others.

I have been given some wonderful work to do here in our Archdioces by Jesus. And I hope to bring forth good fruit for Him! Only by His grace can this happen.

If only there were some more people like you Winsome and Isabella who would step up and continue to share what God has given them to others. Then the renewal would surely flourish.

The past years of renewal were not so much to build numbers, I believe, but to build the leaders. You, my friends, are those leaders whom God has prepared for ministry.

[isabella1]

Yes Good leadership is realy needed. Ya know I feel so strongly that lay people like ourselves should be stepping up and either helping existing ministries or maybe even starting new ministries. We need people with both maturity and a heart to want to help others.

I have been given some wonderful work to do here inour Archdioces by Jesus. And I hope to bring forth good fruit for Him! Only by His grace can this happen.

If only there were some more people like you Winsome and Isabella who would step up and continue to share what God has given them to others. Then the renewal would surely flourish.

The past years of renewal were not so much to build numbers, I beleive, but to build the leaders. You, my friends, are those leaders whom God has prepared for ministry.
Slow down there CF. LOL. You know I don't work on the front line. The Lord had made me a behind the scenes person. Which I humbly accept. I do what he allows. There are to many truly good leaders out there. I am sure I am not one of them. Blessings and Peace.

[CatholicFlame]

You never know Isa. You do great leadership in our Bible Study and I have seen the Lord move through you. You would be surprised how much grace you have there.

I am sure that you could do some type of leadership role. God is with you, and with Him all things are possible.

[poppinskw]

When we receive the Holy Spirit we receive all of Him, not just a part or a part that we ask for, we receive all of Him.

Imparted within us is all the gifts that come with Him, ie we have the potential to be able to move in any of the gifts as HE wills us to at any given time when there is a need.

He may prompt us to move in the gift of healing,
or give us a message to bring in tongues,
or to interpret a message that has been given in tongues.
There may be a word of knowledge for someone or even the gift of discernment when needed.

We may find that we are called to use these gifts once or twice or many times in our lifetime, but we are more than able to if HE leads us to in certain situations.

We will also know those gifts that He gives to us as individuals to minister in as part of our place in the body of Christ. We may have the gift of healing and minister in this gift in a special way, or the gift of prophecy or tongues etc..

We may only be given one or two or more of these. But the potential for all to be used is there when the Holy Spirit resides within us.

Blessings

Les

[isabella1]

When we receive the Holy Spirit we receive all of Him, not just a part or a part that we ask for, we receive all of Him.

Imparted within us is all the gifts that come with Him, ie we have the potential to be able to move in any of the gifts as HE wills us to at any given time when there is a need.

He may prompt us to move in the gift of healing,
or give us a message to bring in tongues,
or to interpret a message that has been given in tongues.
There may be a word of knowledge for someone or even the gift of discernment when needed.

We may find that we are called to use these gifts once or twice or many times in our lifetime, but we are more than able to if HE leads us to in certain situations.

We will also know those gifts that He gives to us as individuals to minister in as part of our place in the body of Christ. We may have the gift of healing and minister in this gift in a special way, or the gift of prophecy or tongues etc..

We may only be given one or two or more of these. But the potential for all to be used is there when the Holy Spirit resides within us.

Blessings

Les
Thank you for this reminder. After I read your post I was talking to the Lord and I distinctly heard "look at 1 Cor;2". So I opened the scripture to just that.

I am so astounded how the Holy Spirit works!! This really spoke to me. Blessings and Peace.

1Cor 2
When I come to you, brothers, proclaiming the mystery of God. I did not come with sublimity of words or of wisdom. For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ, and him crucified. I come to you in weakness and fear and much trembling, and my message and my proclamation were not with persuasive (words of) wisdom, but with a demonstration of spirit and power, so that your faith might rest not on human wisdom but on the power of God.

Yet we do speak a wisdom to those who are mature, but not a wisdom of this age, nor of the rulers of this age who are passing away. Rather we speak God's wisdom, mysterious, hidden, which God predetermined before the age of our glory, and which none of the rulers of this age knew, for if they had known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. But it is written: "What eye has not seen, and ear has not heard, and what has not entered the human heart, what God has prepared for those who love him," this God has revealed through the Spirit.

For the Spirit scrutinizes everything, even the depths of God. Among human beings, who knows what pertains to a person except the spirit of the person that is within? Similarly, no one knows what pertains to God except the Spirit of God. We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit that is from God, so that we may understand the things freely given us by God. And we speak about them not with words taught by human wisdom, but with words taught by the Spirit, describing spiritual realities in spiritual terms.

Now the natural person does not accept what pertains to the Spirit of God, for to him it is foolishness, and he cannot understand it, because it is judged spiritually.

The spiritual person, however, can judge everything but is not subject to judgement by anyone.

For who has known the mind of the Lord, so as to counsel him? But we have the mind of Christ.

[winsome]

Slow down there CF. LOL. You know I don't work on the front line. The Lord had made me a behind the scenes person. Which I humbly accept. I do what he allows. There are to many truly good leaders out there. I am sure I am not one of them. Blessings and Peace.

Isabella’s comments about behind the scenes work & humbly accepting the gifts reminds me of these two paragraphs in the Catechism:

Charisms
799 Whether extraordinary or simple and humble, charisms are graces of the Holy Spirit which directly or indirectly benefit the Church, ordered as they are to her building up, to the good of men, and to the needs of the world.

800 Charisms are to be accepted with gratitude by the person who receives them and by all members of the Church as well. They are a wonderfully rich grace for the apostolic vitality and for the holiness of the entire Body of Christ, provided they really are genuine gifts of the Holy Spirit and are used in full conformity with authentic promptings of this same Spirit, that is, in keeping with charity, the true measure of all charisms.

When we think of charisms, the ones that often spring to mind are the more extraordinary ones such as healing, deliverance, prophecy, miracles. But as the Catechism reminds us there are simple and humble ones such as administration. helping, hospitality.

These are things anyone can do but some people have a special talent for. But when done in the power of the Spirit they move to even greater effectiveness. We can see this in music. Most people can sing, even if not very well. Some people have a talent for it, but when put to the service of the Lord in a music ministry, say at a prayer meeting it can be very special. We may use the term anointed because we recognise the Spirit working in them. It can be the same with other very behind the scenes work.

[isabella1]

Isabella’s comments about behind the scenes work & humbly accepting the gifts reminds me of these two paragraphs in the Catechism:

Charisms
799 Whether extraordinary or simple and humble, charisms are graces of the Holy Spirit which directly or indirectly benefit the Church, ordered as they are to her building up, to the good of men, and to the needs of the world.

800 Charisms are to be accepted with gratitude by the person who receives them and by all members of the Church as well. They are a wonderfully rich grace for the apostolic vitality and for the holiness of the entire Body of Christ, provided they really are genuine gifts of the Holy Spirit and are used in full conformity with authentic promptings of this same Spirit, that is, in keeping with charity, the true measure of all charisms.

When we think of charisms, the ones that often spring to mind are the more extraordinary ones such as healing, deliverance, prophecy, miracles. But as the Catechism reminds us there are simple and humble ones such as administration. helping, hospitality.

These are things anyone can do but some people have a special talent for. But when done in the power of the Spirit they move to even greater effectiveness. We can see this in music. Most people can sing, even if not very well. Some people have a talent for it, but when put to the service of the Lord in a music ministry, say at a prayer meeting it can be very special. We may use the term anointed because we recognise the Spirit working in them. It can be the same with other very behind the scenes work.
Awe, thank you so much. You made my heart smile and sing out gratitude to our Lord for what his Holy Spirit has directed me to do. God Bless you for your gentle words of kindness. Blessings and Peace.

[sunlover1]

When we receive the Holy Spirit we receive all of Him, not just a part or a part that we ask for, we receive all of Him.

Imparted within us is all the gifts that come with Him, ie we have the potential to be able to move in any of the gifts as HE wills us to at any given time when there is a need.

He may prompt us to move in the gift of healing,
or give us a message to bring in tongues,
or to interpret a message that has been given in tongues.
There may be a word of knowledge for someone or even the gift of discernment when needed.

We may find that we are called to use these gifts once or twice or many times in our lifetime, but we are more than able to if HE leads us to in certain situations.

We will also know those gifts that He gives to us as individuals to minister in as part of our place in the body of Christ. We may have the gift of healing and minister in this gift in a special way, or the gift of prophecy or tongues etc..

We may only be given one or two or more of these. But the potential for all to be used is there when the Holy Spirit resides within us.

Blessings

Les
Great insights.
This is how I understood it
too Les.
:hug:

[CatholicFlame]

That is true Winsome, there are not only extraordinary gifts but also many that are uniquely placed behind the scenes.

If God wants us in view, He will surely accomplish it. To Him be the glory.

[isabella1]

There is so much to the Holy Spirit, can our little minds ever even comprehend it all?

Like you guys, I also believe that we receive all the gifts, and that the Holy Spirit uses what is needed during any given moment.

But there are so many degrees of the seven gifts, (wisdom, understanding, counsel, fortitude, knowledge, piety, fear of the Lord).

Then are the nine charisms for service which can be divided into three groups (1. mind - wisdom, knowledge, discernment 2. action - healing, miracles, faith 3. tongue - prophecy, speaking in tongues, interpretation of tongues).

Lets not forget the many ministries of the Spirit.

Oh yes and then there are the virtues, that intertwine into all the gifts. Because of this vine, you cant have one without the other.

There is also other things that are gifts of the Holy Spirit that are not listed as the seven. Like, love, charity, resting in the Spirit, raising of the hands, casting out demons, the gift of being a visionary and having apparitions.

Maybe because there is so much to the Holy Spirit, it takes a lifetime to understand. So we are working within these gifts, charisms and virtues sometimes without even recognize it. Just my thoughts this morning when I woke.

You all have a Holy Spirit filled day. Blessings and Peace. :angel:
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[CatholicFlame]

Amen Isabella!

I hope that I do have a holy Spirit filled day! We are having our monthly charismatic first friday mass tonight and I hope that the Lord uses me in some way to build up the community tonight.

We have words of knowledge after communion sometimes and there is also laying on of hands for healing after the mass is completed.

[isabella1]

Amen Isabella!

I hope that I do have a holy Spirit filled day! We are having our monthly charismatic first friday mass tonight and I hope that the Lord uses me in some way to build up the community tonight.

We have words of knowledge after communion sometimes and there is also laying on of hands for healing after the mass is completed.
Please tell us all about it!

[CatholicFlame]

Ahhh, I was just being given by our Lord that I should be in the power of the Holy Spirit as I came to see what was new in this thread here.

Well! Let me tell you about the mass last night.

A wonderful priest and speaker was our main celebrant and He really brought alot of Joy to us. He spke of Christmas in a way that only a charismatic does (as we are still within the Christ mas season with baby Jesus about to be visited by the Magi tomorrow.)

Well the mass was full of fellowship and thansgiving for us. We were blessed by our Lord in His presence of Emanuel, God with us as a child.

And also, the word gifts at the end of mass were much about being a light for the world. Father had spoken of the star of Bethlehem which led the magi to Jesus and in some sense, our Lord built upon that as we shared the gifts of the Spirit. A summary of what I received was that God is with us and that we has given us His life and His presence to walk with us. We are to be a light, bring that light which is Jesus with us to this world.

And after the mass we had a healing service. I got to help pray and minister in this. There was alot of love, I mean alot last night. We were such a community of prayer at the end there. One thing did happen that was noticable to the community, it was revealed as we prayed that a young woman had an evil Spirit with her. Wow. This was my second time to see such a strong devliverence like last night.

She was hissing like a snake and turned all red as some of the really mature members of the Renewal were praying over her. Her head was twisting slowly like whoa. And just hissing and coughing. The leaders were praying some powerful forceful prayers like "In the Name of Jesus come out of her." And many others. It was very powerful, and I was praying over a man next to them but my prayers got stronger and I felt that I should also cover them next to me in their prayers.

It was awesome. There is so much more that happened that I just can't type it all in one sitting! But Praise be to our Lord Jesus, all were mightily touched by the saving love of Jesus.

[isabella1]

Fantastic CF! Cant wait to hear more. :pink: Maybe you should be studying about the deliverance ministry. Peace and Blessings.
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[CatholicFlame]

I think so Isa. I was told by God that he will use me in deliverance but I have only done this as a beginner at this point. He mentioned that here at Christian Forums btw. I wonder what He is leading me to do.

Do you think that there is a need for deliverance here in the forums?

[isabella1]

I think so Isa. I was told by God that he will use me in deliverance but I have only done this as a beginner at this point. He mentioned that here at Christian Forums btw. I wonder what He is leading me to do.

Do you think that there is a need for deliverance here in the forums?
Yes my friend, I believe there is. These spirits are sneaky and very cunning, so be careful. Make sure you know what you are doing. Get one of Fr. Gabrielle Armouths books (I think that is how you spell his name), that will help you. My prayers are with you. Peace