JW evolved and changing beliefs

[joyusdays]

Can someone tell me what beliefs have changed in the JW religion over time?

[The Gregorian]

The biggest one is that before 1914, some JWs claimed to "Know" when God's kingdom would come... they taught that as though it were a fact, even though A: It was based off a number of assumptions, and B: The bible specifically states that ONLY the Father knows the time and hour of the coming of his kingdom... specifying that not even the Son knows... but ONLY the Father. The JWs realized the error of trying to guess, when they turned out to be wrong. Although they have said that "it COULD be any day now" and that particular dates were quite interesting, and likely candidates for the coming of God's kingdom... they haven't made the statement of "it WILL be on this date" ... instead that it "COULD be any time now."

Although many people still claim JWs consistantly change their story on when it will happen... other than 1914, they were specified as "interesting dates that would make sense to have something significant happen" ... but not arrogantly claiming to know something not even Jesus does.

[HisdaughterJen]

The biggest one is that before 1914, some JWs claimed to "Know" when God's kingdom would come... they taught that as though it were a fact, even though A: It was based off a number of assumptions, and B: The bible specifically states that ONLY the Father knows the time and hour of the coming of his kingdom... specifying that not even the Son knows... but ONLY the Father. The JWs realized the error of trying to guess, when they turned out to be wrong. Although they have said that "it COULD be any day now" and that particular dates were quite interesting, and likely candidates for the coming of God's kingdom... they haven't made the statement of "it WILL be on this date" ... instead that it "COULD be any time now."

Although many people still claim JWs consistantly change their story on when it will happen... other than 1914, they were specified as "interesting dates that would make sense to have something significant happen" ... but not arrogantly claiming to know something not even Jesus does.

Well, the big one was that the great tribulation was predicted to happen in 1975. When it didn't, they said it would happen within the lifetimes of people who were of age in 1914 (born around 1900). When those people got to be 90 to 100 years old and didn't agree with the "by no means pass away" words of Jesus, they started to say it's just "imminent".

Other things that have evolved over the years is their doctrine about blood. It was ok to take blood, then it was forbidden, then parts of blood ok, now a bunch of different blood components are ok. Eating meat with the blood still in it (non-Kosher)has always been ok. Go figure!

[The Gregorian]

Well, the big one was that the great tribulation was predicted to happen in 1975. When it didn't, they said it would happen within the lifetimes of people who were of age in 1914 (born around 1900). When those people got to be 90 to 100 years old and didn't agree with the "by no means pass away" words of Jesus, they started to say it's just "imminent".

Other things that have evolved over the years is their doctrine about blood. It was ok to take blood, then it was forbidden, then parts of blood ok, now a bunch of different blood components are ok. Eating meat with the blood still in it (non-Kosher)has always been ok. Go figure!

They did mention 1975 as an "significant year", and a "likely candidate" as a date that could be chosen. But no claims were made that "it WILL happen in 1975."

The "generation will by no means pass away" part did confuse me when I was younger also... it did sort of sound like it meant literally that "Armageddon will happen and be over before some people alive in 1914 die" ... and while that's still POSSIBLE... I had a lady born in 1912 come into my store just last week... instead, I do believe that concept in that I don't worry about meteors striking the earth or WW3 driving us to extinction or nuclear winter or an extinction... that human kind will not pass away, but survive until it's time to be judged.

Basically that there will be no second flood or something.

SOME witnesses may think or try to teach whatever literal interpretation they can imagine... but that doesn't mean everything we teach is wrong because some people had the arrogance to say that it was possible that the end could come in a certain year...

That concept is based on a human assumption... it doesn't make our interpretation of the rest of the bible flawed. And it certainly doesn't justify belief in a trinity.

[The Gregorian]

as far as blood goes... it's never "been OK" one minute then "not OK" the other. But, understandings of scripture and our current options change. God's opinion has always been the same, whatever it is... it's our job to try to understand that, and if we have reason to believe our current understanding is wrong, it's our job to change our understanding to try our best to serve God.

It is true that in acts, the apostles met and said that people should abstain from blood... What they meant by that is up to your interpretation based on your prayer. Obviously you shouldn't bleed out a cow and drink it's blood... that would be wrong and gross. But with sanitary operations, tests to try to match blood to a patient... should be safe for the patient and you're not HURTING someone else for it or defiling it... that may be OK... of course it is still dangerous... people still die every year from unnecessary blood transfusions (i.e. transfusions given in only 1 unit volumes... 1 unit of blood will not save your life... if you only need 1 unit, it's likely only for oxygenation, which stored blood does not help with. Or it could be to restore blood volume, which other solutions can do just as well with significantly less risk).

Of course, it all depends on what you think God wants... Some think "blood is wrong" and they'll do all they can to never touch the stuff... some think it's only wrong to resort to vampirism.... Most people are somewhere in between based on their moral values and level of education.

Do you not fall somewhere between those two?

[HisdaughterJen]

Awake!, October 8, 1968, p. 13-14

"THE fact that fifty-four years of the period called the 'last days' have already gone by is highly significant. It means that only a few years, at most, remain before the corrupt system of things dominating the earth is destroyed by God...Even if we presume that youngsters 15 years of age would be perceptive enough to realize the import of what happened in 1914, it would still make the youngest of 'this generation' nearly 70 years old today. So the great majority of the generation to which Jesus was referring has already passed away in death. The remaining ones are approaching old age. And remember, Jesus said that the end of this wicked world would come before that generation passed away in death. This, of itself, tells us that the years left before the foretold end comes cannot be many. There is another way that helps confirm the fact that we are living in the final few years of this "time of the end." (Dan. 12:9) The Bible shows that we are nearing the end of a full 6,000 years of human history. What significance does this have?...Revelation chapter 20, verse 6, shows that God's heavenly kingdom will rule over the earth for one thousand years after the end of this system of things. That millennium will bring a sabbathlike res to the earth and all those then inhabiting it...How fitting it would be for God, following this pattern, to end man's misery after six thousand years of human rule and follow it with His glorious Kingdom rule for a thousand years...How can it be determined when 6,000 years of human history will end? According to reliable Bible chronology, Adam and Eve were created in 4026 .C.E...This would leave only seven more years from the autumn of 1968 to complete 6,000 full years of human history. That seven-year period will evidently finish in the autumn of the year 1975."



Kingdom Ministry, May 1974, p. 3

"By carefully and prayerfully examining our own circumstances, we also may find that we can spend more time and energy in preaching during this final period before the present system ends. Many of our brothers and sisters are doing just that. This is evident from the rapidly increasing number of pioneers. Yes, since the summer of 1973 there have been new peaks in pioneers every month. Now there are 20,394 regular and special pioneers in the United States, an all-time peak. That is 5,190 more than there were in February 1973! A 34-percent increase! Does that not warm our hearts? Reports are heard of brothers selling their homes and property and planning to finish out the rest of their days in this old system in the pioneer service. Certainly this is a fine way to spend the short time remaining before the wicked world's end. 1 John 2:17. Circumstances such as poor health or responsibilities in connection with your family may limit what you can do in the field ministry. And yet, the pioneer ranks include many who have health limitations, as well as some persons with families. But these brothers and sisters are able to regulate their lives so that they can care for their responsibilities and still put in the 1,200 hours a year, an average of 100 hours a month in the field ministry, required of pioneers."



www.afcministry.com/Jehovahs_Witnesses_1975_quotes_prophesy.htm (http://www.afcministry.com/Jehovahs_Witnesses_1975_quotes_prophesy.htm)

There's a lot more than that.

My parents joined the Jehovah's Witnesses about a year before the Fall of 1975 when it was all supposed to end.

I don't believe that where you stand on the trinity is a salvation-bearing issue. Jesus will show you if you ask Him to.

[HisdaughterJen]

Well, I know that vaccinations were once taboo and now they're ok. Taking blood was once forbidden and now blood components are ok. Storing up your own blood prior to surgery was once forbidden...but I don't know if it still is.

If we are to follow God's Levitical Laws, then we would not eat any pork, or lobster or shrimp (among other things) and we would not eat meat unless it's Kosher (killed according to Biblical Law).

Kosher- "The orthodox Jewish dietary laws, known as Kashrut, which forbids the eating of pigs and shellfish and mandates special methods for the slaughter of meat, and the separation of meat and milk, among other rules."

Now, when it comes to accepting life-blood into your veins due to massive blood loss that could kill you, I certainly won't deny it to my dying child based on Levitical DIETARY Laws. IF it's a sin to accept an organ or blood to prolong life, Christ died for all sins.

[joyusdays]

as far as blood goes... it's never "been OK" one minute then "not OK" the other. But, understandings of scripture and our current options change. God's opinion has always been the same, whatever it is... it's our job to try to understand that, and if we have reason to believe our current understanding is wrong, it's our job to change our understanding to try our best to serve God.

It is true that in acts, the apostles met and said that people should abstain from blood... What they meant by that is up to your interpretation based on your prayer. Obviously you shouldn't bleed out a cow and drink it's blood... that would be wrong and gross. But with sanitary operations, tests to try to match blood to a patient... should be safe for the patient and you're not HURTING someone else for it or defiling it... that may be OK... of course it is still dangerous... people still die every year from unnecessary blood transfusions (i.e. transfusions given in only 1 unit volumes... 1 unit of blood will not save your life... if you only need 1 unit, it's likely only for oxygenation, which stored blood does not help with. Or it could be to restore blood volume, which other solutions can do just as well with significantly less risk).

Of course, it all depends on what you think God wants... Some think "blood is wrong" and they'll do all they can to never touch the stuff... some think it's only wrong to resort to vampirism.... Most people are somewhere in between based on their moral values and level of education.

Do you not fall somewhere between those two?
Which scriptures are in the bible beside one where JW's get where they shouldn't get blood?

[The Gregorian]

Awake!, October 8, 1968, p. 13-14

"THE fact that fifty-four years of the period called the 'last days' have already gone by is highly significant. It means that only a few years, at most, remain before the corrupt system of things dominating the earth is destroyed by God...Even if we presume that youngsters 15 years of age would be perceptive enough to realize the import of what happened in 1914, it would still make the youngest of 'this generation' nearly 70 years old today. So the great majority of the generation to which Jesus was referring has already passed away in death. The remaining ones are approaching old age. And remember, Jesus said that the end of this wicked world would come before that generation passed away in death. This, of itself, tells us that the years left before the foretold end comes cannot be many. There is another way that helps confirm the fact that we are living in the final few years of this "time of the end." (Dan. 12:9) The Bible shows that we are nearing the end of a full 6,000 years of human history. What significance does this have?...Revelation chapter 20, verse 6, shows that God's heavenly kingdom will rule over the earth for one thousand years after the end of this system of things. That millennium will bring a sabbathlike res to the earth and all those then inhabiting it...How fitting it would be for God, following this pattern, to end man's misery after six thousand years of human rule and follow it with His glorious Kingdom rule for a thousand years...How can it be determined when 6,000 years of human history will end? According to reliable Bible chronology, Adam and Eve were created in 4026 .C.E...This would leave only seven more years from the autumn of 1968 to complete 6,000 full years of human history. That seven-year period will evidently finish in the autumn of the year 1975."


Exactly what I was saying. Yes... people pointed out that 1975 is estimated to be a significant year. Exactly 6,000 years after the creation would make sense... but maybe it's to be exactly 6,000 years after Adam and Eve ate the apple... or maybe God won't work with round numbers because the point is he has his own schedule that he doesn't want people guessing. 1 millenium after Jesus' arrival on the earth, or baptism, or sacrifice would've been likely years... but they didn't happen. Maybe 10,000 years after one of those dates... let's just hope not.

Yes... JWs have said "it could be soon" ... and "by our estimates" quite a few times... remember while the apostles were alive, THEY referred to the time THEY were in as "the last days" too... so were the apostles all wrong because it's now been about 2,000 years?

Saying that "it would be fitting" for God to re-establish his kingdom on earth on a certain estimated anniversary doesn't equate to "We are prophesying that it WILL happen on this date." ... Of course some people will assume it to mean that, and they're foolish for trusting in their understandings of guesses of men rather than the promises of God.

The promise of God is this: That he will put an end to death and pain and mourning and outcry... when the time is right. That's for him to decide.

[The Gregorian]

Which scriptures are in the bible beside one where JW's get where they shouldn't get blood?

It's based of O.T. law, but is repeated in the book of acts, chapter 15 verses 20 and 29:

20. But that we give them orders to keep themselves from things offered to false gods, and from the evil desires of the body, and from the flesh of animals put to death in ways against the law, and from blood.
29. To keep from things offered to false gods, and from blood, and from things put to death in ways which are against the law, and from the evil desires of the body; if you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. May you be happy.
taken from "the bible in basic english" ... not "the JW bible." Use whatever translation you choose, it's not a "JW bible" thing.

True, it was the apostles, not words from God... will you claim that this part of the bible isn't really God's word?

Or if you think it to be mistranslation, read from the original greek yourself: http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/act15.pdf