Justification and Salvation

[Dominus Fidelis]

Would you all kindly educate me on one aspect of your beliefs by answering this simple question?

Do justification and salvation occur at the same point in time, and afterwards we are sanctified?

In other words...

When you accept Jesus by faith alone, you are then justified, correct? So are you also then saved?

Thanks!

:wave:

[Reformationist]

Would you all kindly educate me on one aspect of your beliefs by answering this simple question?

Do justification and salvation occur at the same point in time, and afterwards we are sanctified?

In other words...

When you accept Jesus by faith alone, you are then justified, correct? So are you also then saved?

Thanks!

:wave:
Salvation has a progressive relationship to our eternal life with God. We are eternally saved when the Lord regenerates and justifies us, we are progressively and continually saved from our inherent fallenness by the grace of God in our Lord Jesus, and we are finally saved when we are glorified and seated with God in His everlasting Kingdom.

God bless

[Dominus Fidelis]

Salvation has a progressive relationship to our eternal life with God. We are eternally saved when the Lord regenerates and justifies us, we are progressively and continually saved from our inherent fallenness by the grace of God in our Lord Jesus, and we are finally saved when we are glorified and seated with God in His everlasting Kingdom.

God bless

Thanks.

Do the other members of this forum believe that justification equates to eternal salvation as well?

[BBAS 64]

Thanks.

Do the other members of this forum believe that justification equates to eternal salvation as well?
:scratch:

D.F

I do not know that this is an accurate portrayal of what Reformationist is saying. That is not the idea I come away with. Reformationist if I have misrepresented you I appoligize:prayer: . May be later when I have some time I will come back and try to explain my veiw on this issue.

For His Glory Alone! :clap:

BBAS

[Dominus Fidelis]

:scratch:

D.F

I do not know that this is an accurate portrayal of what Reformationist is saying. That is not the idea I come away with. Reformationist if I have misrepresented you I appoligize:prayer: . May be later when I have some time I will come back and try to explain my veiw on this issue.

For His Glory Alone! :clap:

BBAS

It's not? He said the justified are eternally saved, did he not?

Am I misrepresenting you, Reformationist?

Do you believe justified people can be in Hell?

[Knight]

This has been discussed before....

Check out my response on this thread...
http://www.christianforums.com/t66147

[ej]

It's a good explanation :)

I've never fully understood the meaning iof these different words as people seem to have different interpretations, but your explanation helps a lot - thanks :)

[Dominus Fidelis]

Thanks Knight...just to clarify things for me...

Do you believe justified people can be in Hell?

[Knight]

It's a good explanation :)

I've never fully understood the meaning iof these different words as people seem to have different interpretations, but your explanation helps a lot - thanks :)
Assuming this was directed at me.....

You're welcome.

If not....

You're still welcome. :)

[Reformationist]

It's not? He said the justified are eternally saved, did he not?
Yes, they are. I didn't say they were the same thing but they most definitely go hand in hand.

Am I misrepresenting you, Reformationist?
I'm not aware of it if you are.

Do you believe justified people can be in Hell?
Absolutely not. The term "justified" refers to being accounted righteous on behalf of the Lord's righteousness. For a justified person to end up in hell the Lord would have to remove that imputation or else He would be condemning and counting as unrighteous a righteous, in account even if not in deed, person.

God bless

[Knight]

Thanks Knight...just to clarify things for me...

Do you believe justified people can be in Hell?
No.

[Rechtgläubig]

When you accept Jesus by faith alone, you are then justified, correct?
Yes and no.

Lutherans recognize an Objective Justification and a Subjective Justification. In short, saying that Christ paid for everyone's sins at the cross would be called Objective Justification this took place outside of ourselves and happened around 2,000 years ago. One's faith Justifies them Subjectively. The best way I can illustrate this is saying...

You are way over your head in debt. God put a limitless amount of money into your bank account for the sole reason that He loves you. Then either I tell you about this "good news" or your read about it in a book. If you blow it off and say that it is ridiculous, the gift will do you no good, but if you do believe me...

The importance behind this distinction shows that it is not how strong I feel my faith any certain day that causes my forgiveness, but a historical fact that can't change. Christ paid for our sins, He died for us, and rose. Someone doesn't feel forgiven, they can always look to Christ who said, "It is finished." God's forgiveness causes my faith to strengthen, me to feel forgiven.

Our faith is not the cause of salvation, it is just the channel through which we receive forgiveness. "BY Grace you are saved, THROUGH Faith". If God's Grace is compared to water, Faith would be the plumbing we receive it through.

I hope I didn't confuse anyone.

God Bless.

[InquisitorKind]

Would you all kindly educate me on one aspect of your beliefs by answering this simple question?

Do justification and salvation occur at the same point in time, and afterwards we are sanctified?

In other words...

When you accept Jesus by faith alone, you are then justified, correct? So are you also then saved?

Thanks!

:wave:
I agree with what Reformationist has posted. Salvation is a process, so you can be justified and in the state of salvation at the same time, but I wouldn't say that salvation is completed when justification occurs.

~Matt

[Dominus Fidelis]

I agree with what Reformationist has posted. Salvation is a process, so you can be justified and in the state of salvation at the same time, but I wouldn't say that salvation is completed when justification occurs.

~Matt

What is someone becomes justified and is then hit by a bus? Saved?

[Knight]

What is someone becomes justified and is then hit by a bus? Saved?
Yes.

One who is justified is forgiven of sins and granted a right standing before God through the blood of Christ. Therefore, one who is justified will not be condemned.

[boughtwithaprice]

Dear P/R/E brethren:

Is it fair to say that you believe that a justified person is not currently saved, but there is no way that he/she will not be saved eventually?

Sorry for the double negative, but I am just trying to understand. Thanks

[Knight]

Dear P/R/E brethren:

Is it fair to say that you believe that a justified person is not currently saved, but there is no way that he/she will not be saved eventually?
No, one who is justified stands right before God. They are saved.


Sorry for the double negative, but I am just trying to understand. Thanks
No problem, it can be a difficult thing to grasp.

[ej]

No, one who is justified stands right before God. They are saved.

I almost agree ;)

I'd say ...they WILL BE saved... :)

[Knight]

I almost agree ;)

I'd say ...they WILL BE saved... :)
Which is consistent with the Catholic position on this issue.

[Dominus Fidelis]

Which is consistent with the Catholic position on this issue.

Assuming that they dont fall from grace, yes.

[Knight]

Assuming that they dont fall from grace, yes.
Also consistent with what I understand about Catholic beliefs.

But I thought we were discussing Protestant beliefs.... ;)

[ej]

I thought we were discussing Christian beliefs :P

This is NOT an attack, but a genuine question: how can you have achieved salvation whilst you are still alive on Earth, and Jesus has not yet come again to judge us? :confused:

[Knight]

I thought we were discussing Christian beliefs :P
We are but this is the P/R/E forum. Viewpoints on this issue vary.


This is NOT an attack, but a genuine question: how can you have achieved salvation whilst you are still alive on Earth, and Jesus has not yet come again to judge us? :confused:
There is a difference between being assured of salvation and achieving it. Our salvation will be complete when Christ returns.

I'll refer you to my original post on this thread. I believe this is explained there.

[ej]

There is a difference between being assured of salvation and achieving it. Our salvation will be complete when Christ returns.

.
So you agree with me that we WILL BE saved :)

[Knight]

So you agree with me that we WILL BE saved :)
That depends on what you mean by that statement.

Please define what you mean by "salvation" for me....

[ej]

There is a difference between being assured of salvation and achieving it. Our salvation will be complete when Christ returns.

I'll refer you to my original post on this thread. I believe this is explained there.
I'm not going on my definition, I'm going on yours :)

Your post in the other thread says the same thing :)

[Knight]

I'm not going on my definition, I'm going on yours :)

Your post in the other thread says the same thing :)
So what is the confusion?

[ej]

There is a difference between being assured of salvation and achieving it. Our salvation will be complete when Christ returns.

No, one who is justified stands right before God. They are saved.
You said both these things and I interpreted them as contradicting each other... the first one I agree with. I think you'd call it 'the Catholic viewpoint' ;)

The second one seems to imply completion of salvation whilst living a sinful life on Earth... apologies for having misinterpreted it.

[Knight]

Ok, I think I see the confusion now. Allow me to try and explain.

Justification is part of our salvation. It is the point at which the sinner is declared righteous before God through the blood of Christ.

Here is how my pastor explained it... I'll try and articulate though I cannot promise to do it justice.

Salvation is a process. Step one is justification which has already been explained. Step two is sanctification which is the changing of the believer to conform to the image of Christ. This takes a lifetime and is not fully complete until the third step. The third step is glorification which happens when we die and our soul enters into the presence of God.

In the salvation process all these things take place. One who is justified is righteous before God and will be glorified. Sanctification always occurs at one level or another even if only a few minutes pass between the point of justification and death.

When I mentioned achieving our salvation I was refering to completing all three steps. Forgive me if this was confusing.

[eldermike]

There are several views of slavation in the Christian faith. If you want to debate them, please do so in the proper forum. There is no answer "in general" to your question unless you are intrested in a specific denominations view.

Let's not debate soteriological views as if there is only 2. The question is a general question and has been answered as far as it can be without a debate.

[InquisitorKind]

What is someone becomes justified and is then hit by a bus? Saved?
The same situation occurred in the Scriptures, execept that the justified person died almost immediately by suffocation, not a bus. Was he saved or not?

If it helps to answer the question, you might remember him as the thief on the cross.

~Matt

[ej]

There are several views of slavation in the Christian faith. If you want to debate them, please do so in the proper forum. There is no answer "in general" to your question unless you are intrested in a specific denominations view.

Let's not debate soteriological views as if there is only 2. The question is a general question and has been answered as far as it can be without a debate.
Apologies... I was trying to ascertain the viewpoint here... I don't think there was any debate... mainly because I pretty much agree with Knight now that he's clarified things for me :)