The broad and narrow way ... poll

[colinlindsay]

An Christian leader said to me that most professing Christians did not have saving faith and wouldn't be saved.
What do the Orthodox think?

[Andrew21091]

It is up to God only. We have no say to who gets to go to heaven.

[Nichole]

It is up to God only. We have no say to who gets to go to heaven.
Yes, this is right! God is the ultimate judge of mankind! Not some Christian leader, preacher, priest, etc. :)

[Dorothea]

Only God knows.

[HisKid1973]

I picked don't know but surprises. Some we thought will be there, won't and visa versa..shalom..Kim

[Prawnik]

I was torn between "God only knows" and "there will be surprises". "God only knows" seems the simpler option.

[Protoevangel]

"Only God knows" AND "there'll be surprises".

[Vasileios]

"Only God knows" AND "there'll be surprises".

.

[SeraphimSarov]

Only God knows.

[Tonks]

+1

[Macarius]

Only God knows, and may He have mercy on us all in His love and grace.

It is judgment to assert that we "know" someone is going to heaven or to hell, ourselves included (hence why Orthodoxy doesn't believe in assurance of salvation). Only certain exceptions, in which God has directly revealed to His Church that an individual is with Him (ie the thief on the cross, Moses and Elijah on Mt Tabor at the Transfiguration, etc) can we know. Orthodoxy calls such revealed individuals "saints" - though the term techincally applies to all Christians - because we DON'T know if anyone else truly is a Christian (plus, those of us still alive have not endured unto the end, which is necessary for salvation).

Hope that helps,
Macarius

[Akathist]

"Only God knows" AND "there'll be surprises". :thumbsup:

[Lukaris]

Don't know, only God knows. (think surprises can also apply although did not choose that option).

[Kolya]

Only God can truly read a persons heart. And I expect to find many surprises, the biggest of which will be myself!

Lord have mercy!!!

[vanshan]

Who's a goat and who's a sheep, God knows, not me. I did answer a minority, because it was the answer Christ gave. Broad is the path to destruction, narrow the way of salvation, so I'll go with that . . . but definitely we can't begin to judge the hearts of men and perceive who will be saved in the end.

Basil

[gzt]

for all i know, i alone shall be damned and all others will be saved.

[colinlindsay]

I'm not talking about assessing the salvation of any particular individual that has made a staement about his own faith.
I'm talking about whether we should be generally optimistic, open-minded, and positive or on the other hand, sceptical or even cynical about Christendom and the activities thereof. I'd like to discover whether denominations feel differently about other professing 'streams' and whether in fact ecumenism is bound to be 'of the devil' or worth pursuing.
Alernatively do you feel positive about the salvation of mankind as a whole?

[MrJim]

wow, looked at the results of the poll so far~you don't want to hear this but I'm encouraged by the humility demonstrated here.

[Monica, child of God]

for all i know, i alone shall be damned and all others will be saved.

I was going to say the same thing.

M.

[Orthosdoxa]

I'm not talking about assessing the salvation of any particular individual that has made a staement about his own faith.
I'm talking about whether we should be generally optimistic, open-minded, and positive or on the other hand, sceptical or even cynical about Christendom and the activities thereof. I'd like to discover whether denominations feel differently about other professing 'streams' and whether in fact ecumenism is bound to be 'of the devil' or worth pursuing.
Alernatively do you feel positive about the salvation of mankind as a whole?

I don't think this would change anyone's answers.

And ecumenism is not looked upon as anything worth pursuing. Ecumenism seeks to downplay differences, but we think those differences are non-negotiable.

[Macarius]

Some of those differences are non-negotiable.

I see tremendous evidence in our tradition that a diverse set of "typikons" and different styles of liturgical worship are allowable (note the diversity of liturgies in the first millenium).

Others - ie sola-scriptura, papal authoritarianism, papal infallibility, sola-fide, 5-point calvinism, true monophysitism (denying Christ's two natures)... These I agree are non-negotiable and must be rejected for Orthodoxy to stay true to herself.

If the question, though, is whether or not those of other denominations can be saved... well, the answer must be "of course! If God wills is."

If anything, we are judged more harshly for having more truth within Orthodoxy. I think there are many outside the Orthodox Church who are saved (from Buddhist to Protestant) and many within who are not.... However, I have to respond to the truth given to me, which means that for me, leaving Orthodoxy would threaten my soul (if not secure my condemnation).

I also believe that MANY within Orthodoxy are saved - the truth and the fullness of the sacramental life and the experience of her ascetic and spiritual life... all of these are effective for salvation by the grace of God.

Again - God saves whom He wills. The Church holds no monopoly on grace. (Fr. Thomas Hopko).

In Christ,
Macarius

[Monica, child of God]

I'm not talking about assessing the salvation of any particular individual that has made a staement about his own faith.

okay.

I'd like to discover whether denominations feel differently about other professing 'streams'

I think we are generally agnostic about the salvation of people of other denominations just as we are agnostic about the salvation of others in general. We hope but we do not know.

and whether in fact ecumenism is bound to be 'of the devil' or worth pursuing.

Having conversations about differences and similarites is never a bad thing IMO. Concluding that similarities outweigh very real differences is not so great.

Alernatively do you feel positive about the salvation of mankind as a whole?

Because Christ is the author and finisher of our faith, I feel confident in Him. God has done everything possible to bring us, who were once very far away, close to Him. Whether some or all or none will take God up on His offer of salvation, I have no idea.

Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men's hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God. --1 Corinthians 4:5


M.

[Dorothea]

Some of those differences are non-negotiable.

I see tremendous evidence in our tradition that a diverse set of "typikons" and different styles of liturgical worship are allowable (note the diversity of liturgies in the first millenium).

Others - ie sola-scriptura, papal authoritarianism, papal infallibility, sola-fide, 5-point calvinism, true monophysitism (denying Christ's two natures)... These I agree are non-negotiable and must be rejected for Orthodoxy to stay true to herself.

If the question, though, is whether or not those of other denominations can be saved... well, the answer must be "of course! If God wills is."

If anything, we are judged more harshly for having more truth within Orthodoxy. I think there are many outside the Orthodox Church who are saved (from Buddhist to Protestant) and many within who are not.... However, I have to respond to the truth given to me, which means that for me, leaving Orthodoxy would threaten my soul (if not secure my condemnation).

I also believe that MANY within Orthodoxy are saved - the truth and the fullness of the sacramental life and the experience of her ascetic and spiritual life... all of these are effective for salvation by the grace of God.

Again - God saves whom He wills. The Church holds no monopoly on grace. (Fr. Thomas Hopko).

In Christ,
Macarius
Just wanted to say, it's nice to "see" you, Macarius. It seems you've been away for quite a while. I like reading your informative posts. :)

[Macarius]

Just wanted to say, it's nice to "see" you, Macarius. It seems you've been away for quite a while. I like reading your informative posts. :)
Thank you!

I've been gone for about 4 months - since I started teaching high school. Life was just too busy. Christmas break, though, allows me some time. Man is it nice to have a two week break...

[Orthosdoxa]

Some of those differences are non-negotiable.

I see tremendous evidence in our tradition that a diverse set of "typikons" and different styles of liturgical worship are allowable (note the diversity of liturgies in the first millenium).


I wasn't referring to diversity within our faith, I was referring to things like sola scriptura and the other solas, etc, ie, we can't negotiate and pretend we're the same with things clearly outside of our Faith.