Medjugorje and other miracles...

[MoNiCa4316]

:wave: What do you all think about Catholic miracles such as Mary seen in Medjugorje or what happened to St. Faustina?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medjugorje
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Faustina_Kowalska
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaplet_of_Divine_Mercy


I'm interested in what you all think :)

[MariaRegina]

After reading several Catholic and Orthodox books on the subject, I must agree that something is fishy.

The Catholic Bishop does not approve of this apparition.

The major Orthodox Christian writers believe that if it is a valid apparition, then it must be a ghost because the apparition occurred exactly 40 years after thousands of Orthodox Christian men, women, and children were pushed off a cliff in Medjugorje to their deaths.

Additionally, the children described the maiden as wearing gray clothing (like a ghost) but Our Lady the Theotokos has never appeared wearing gray, but blue and white, or blue. Saints report that the Theotokos is radiant and beautiful to behold, whereas this Medjugorje apparition was not radiant but sad.

[Orthosdoxa]

There's actually a lot of Catholics who think the whole Medjugorie thing is bogus.

I have no opinion on any of the things you mentioned. (real helpful, huh :sorry: )

[Tonks]

Medjugorje (man is that hard to spell) and some of the other associated Marian "stuff" is one of the many things which led me East out of Rome.

I have no doubt that our Catholic brethren have great love for the Theotokos but I find their approach somewhat jarring. Within Orthodoxy I find, for lack of a better word, a more "proper" or "holistic" theology surrouding Mary and her role in Christ's life.

It is a bit hard to explain at the moment as I'm but a babe in the Orthodox woods but I find the Eastern approach much more theologically sound and it is much easier to see where Mary fits in the "grand plan" and why we do what we do...

Perhaps another former Catholic can explain it better if they understand what I'm talking about.

[MariaRegina]

As a former Catholic, I can say that many Catholics were chasing visions and trying to prove their faith by going on pilgrimages. They sought out miracles and wonders. My Catholic priest frowned upon all these pilgrimages to Medjugorje. He knew of many traveling couples who got divorced, because one spouse was more zealous than the other and caused discord. It just was not healthy physically, spiritually, or mentally.

On the other hand, Orthodoxy takes miracles as a normal thing to be expected. We experience so many miracles that it is not surprising or unexpected. Weeping icons happen all the time. There is the current weeping icon in Hawaii. I saw two in Los Angeles. And while typing this I smell the heavenly scent of roses.

God is with us.

I can honestly say that the people I meet within Orthodox are very devout.
My son has married into a very devout Greek Orthodox family. His uncle-in-law is an Orthodox Priest,
and his brother-in-law is studying to be an Orthodox Priest, and the youngest brother-in-law also wants to attend seminary.

[Michael the Iconographer]

I have to agree with Tonks about the "Marian stuff" making it very easy for me to leave Rome.

[Anhelyna]

As a Catholic , I really feel I have to open my big mouth here :) and I'll more than likely put my excessively big foot right in it :D :D

OK Medjugorie -- I prefer to rely on the local Bishop here - there's just too much going on . It's like no other apparition of the Virgin . Yes something seems to happen - but what ??

There are other ' happenings ' at other times and in other places too - Garabandal - and again that has not yet been approved either.

In times of stress people seem to need a focus - and I think the 2 I have just quoted are regarded as just that.


NOW for the biggie - do I believe in them - frankly - the answer is NO .

I'll stick with those that are approved . Yes Michael and Tonks- I agree the emphasis on these appearances can be overdone , but with some you cannot explain the Miracles of healing that do occur any other way than through Someone's Intervention.

Considering the very many times that the Theotokos seems to have smiled on me it seems strange that I am sceptical about some of Her alleged sightings . However I am - but I do believe very strongly in some .

Anhelyna - the one who was Received into the UGCC in the little Church of the Dormition of the Theotokos in Lourdes

[buzuxi02]

Definately something fishy about the Medjugorie apparitions. I dont see it ever being approved by the Vatican.
I seen video footage of the Garabandal penomonen, and if this footage is authentic, i would say something real definately happened there.

The most fascinating apparition in our generation is the apparition of Zeitoun, Egypt in 1967 over a Coptic Church. Over a million eyewitnesses many being muslim eyewitnesses. The Coptic Church affirmed this miracle and the Vatican did as well. Even the secular authorities carried out an investigation and declared that no funny business is raking place ad claimed that it is authentic (something a western secular country would never do)

Scraps and Photos from English and French Newspapers on the Apparitions of Virgin Mary at Zeitoun, Egypt (http://www.zeitun-eg.org/engnews.htm)

Perhaps the most unusual thing is that the tiny Protestat Evangelical community also approved this phenomenon to be authentic:
Our Lady of Zeitoun - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Lady_of_Zeitoun)

.

[MoNiCa4316]

Thanks for all your replies. I kinda do believe in the apparitions to be totally honest but I'm not going to argue it. I certainly understand your views.
About some Catholics 'chasing visions', maybe that depends on the person...I know some Catholics who seem quite accustomed to miracles happening :) well in any case I'm glad that Orthodoxy sees miracles as something 'normal', I think that's a good way to be. :) it's never good to chase spiritual experiences anyway, we should seek God first of all things. So that's encouraging for me to hear. :)

God bless

monica

[tekiahteruah]

Most Marian apparitions of this kind appear fishy to me, but I've always had a soft spot in my heart for Lourdes, where Mary makes none of her long pompous speeches (such as at Fatima or La Salette) but only prays with a poor girl in a garbage dump and creates a healing spring. The "Que soy era immaculada concepciou" doesn't change that (besides, it's interesting that the Lady at Lourdes declared 'I am the immaculate conception' not on the feast day of Mary's conception but on the Western feast day of Jesus' conception. Perhaps she was misunderstood?)

[AxionEsti]

We must be more aware of the daily miracles in our personal lives. Many of them cannot be seen, but are most likely there.

For instance, how do I know whether or not some robbers were coming to my house to rob and kill me, but God intervened and stopped them? I would probably never know it. It is things like that, and I'm grateful that I woke up to experience another day this morning. You never know how many times we experience miracles, and we have far more than we realize. Miracles can and do happen.

We have more answers to prayer than we realize, too. :bow:

[MariaRegina]

Most Marian apparitions of this kind appear fishy to me, but I've always had a soft spot in my heart for Lourdes, where Mary makes none of her long pompous speeches (such as at Fatima or La Salette) but only prays with a poor girl in a garbage dump and creates a healing spring. The "Que soy era immaculada concepciou" doesn't change that (besides, it's interesting that the Lady at Lourdes declared 'I am the immaculate conception' not on the feast day of Mary's conception but on the Western feast day of Jesus' conception. Perhaps she was misunderstood?)

Interesting, do you have a quote?

Often church officials will do slight edits to make the text agree with Catholic teachings.

[MariaRegina]

We must be more aware of the daily miracles in our personal lives. Many of them cannot be seen, but are most likely there.

For instance, how do I know whether or not some robbers were coming to my house to rob and kill me, but God intervened and stopped them? I would probably never know it. It is things like that, and I'm grateful that I woke up to experience another day this morning. You never know how many times we experience miracles, and we have far more than we realize. Miracles can and do happen.

We have more answers to prayer than we realize, too. :bow:

Great thought.

That California storm was frightful.

Our cat howled through the night.

[WarriorAngel]

The Lady of Lourdes said 'I am the Immaculate Conception.'

The Church officials asked Bernadette to ask who the Lady was. And Bernadette was actually doing poorly in her religion [chatechesis] classes and did not even understand the concept of the Trinity.

When she was repeatedly tested on what the Lady said she said the same thing over and over for all testimonies.

'I AM the Immaculate Conception.'

Although Bernadette did not understand what she said, it was her humility and innocence that prooves she was not lying. The Lady told her this the last time she saw her at Lourdes. She asked earlier, but the Lady said she would tell her before she would stop appearing.

The Grotto still has healing waters.

I also loved the Lady of Guadalupe miracle.

As for Medjugorje, I remember the reports that although the town where the visions were occurring was being bombed by planes above [during the war], the bombs never detonated.
I heard also that Pope JPll said it prooves the Lord was protecting the soil His Mother stepped on.

Basically, you may hear a lot of rumors on the internet... but i read her messages many years prior to ever being online..and i will say this, dont believe most of what you hear on the internet.

Also, the Church hasnt approved the messages until something [a prophecy] comes to be fulfilled.

So, if those who believe and know the messages to return to Penances and confession and prayer and Church and respecting the Eucharist then i dont think the messages are anything but good if they lead ppl back to Christ. Just my own observation.

St Faustina, a really good read.

Although i am trying to remember if it was St Faustina, and i believe it was, who saw her friend - another nun, who passed away, come to ask for prayers and she left her hand mark on the door of her room.
When exhumed the hand matched the deceased's hand size. :scratch:

I will be honest, i have read so many personal revelations i may have them a bit mixed.

God Bless and :crossrc: we reunite.

[Mary of Bethany]

Thanks, WA. Nice to see you in here. :wave:

Mary

[WarriorAngel]

Hi Mary. :hug:
God Bless.

And i agree...so many miracles in all the Apostolic Churches, i would love to read a book about them all. Or write one. :)

[Akathist]

Thread moved by staff consensus as this thread is about the CC and EO faiths.

[Philothei]

with unification we will have somehow to work out all these issues... I think though deep in my heart that some western saints do deserve to be included... although some others are doubtful to me... I agree with Tonks and with Michael, some of the stories esp. the Madgegorija..(sorry wrong spelling...:() things sound fishy. But to be honest... even in the EO miracles that ARE legitemate and saints still.... we over-expose them to the people... for other motives. Truth to be told here... So in the end of the day...upon unification we will have to ponder hard and long for the sake of... our faithful. I am sorry if I appear judgmental here.. but what I post is indeed in love and truth... not to scandalize anyone....


Forgive me,
Philothei

[WarriorAngel]

with unification we will have somehow to work out all these issues... I think though deep in my heart that some western saints do deserve to be included... although some others are doubtful to me... I agree with Tonks and with Michael, some of the stories esp. the Madgegorija..(sorry wrong spelling...:() things sound fishy. But to be honest... even in the EO miracles that ARE legitemate and saints still.... we over-expose them to the people... for other motives. Truth to be told here... So in the end of the day...upon unification we will have to ponder hard and long for the sake of... our faithful. I am sorry if I appear judgmental here.. but what I post is indeed in love and truth... not to scandalize anyone....


Forgive me,
Philothei
I would have to say that a majority of Catholics are sceptical about Medjugorje. So you are not alone on that.
Although i have to say, being that i read the messages and they caused a change in me, that as long as the faithful return because of messages [that are not against the faith] then it is fine to believe in.

But not to ignore the fact the Church hasnt approved it until or if they do.

The Church moves like molasses in January when looking into anything like this.
Skepticism is ok. Its part of what must be done in prudence.

[Montalban]

From what I remember about this "Mary" said she'd only appear for a limited time, but then seemed to have changed her mind as she kept coming back.

[WarriorAngel]

From what I remember about this "Mary" said she'd only appear for a limited time, but then seemed to have changed her mind as she kept coming back.
Actually her message was 'Once she stopped appearing, she would not return to earth again with messages.'

She didnt put a time limit on it, but said if ppl did not convert back to the Lord in this time of great grace, when the sign appears, it will be too late.

I am using my memory...so dont quote me. I havent read her messages in depth since about 1992. :holy:

But the message she is telling the world is;
Conversion, Penance, Confession, Eucharist, and Prayer.

[Montalban]

Actually her message was 'Once she stopped appearing, she would not return to earth again with messages.'

She didnt put a time limit on it, but said if ppl did not convert back to the Lord in this time of great grace, when the sign appears, it will be too late.

I am using my memory...so dont quote me. I havent read her messages in depth since about 1992. :holy:

But the message she is telling the world is;
Conversion, Penance, Confession, Eucharist, and Prayer.

I can't dispute you on this but I'll have to look it up as my memory of it differs

[MoNiCa4316]

We'll know if it's true or not if the events predicted will actually happen :) it's supposed to start happening soon I guess, so it will be clear then.

[WarriorAngel]

I can't dispute you on this but I'll have to look it up as my memory of it differs
http://www.medjugorje.org/

This is the only site that i know based upon the actual event and messages.

I havent read it myself in quite a long time.

[MariaRegina]

IMO

It is more important to read, pray, and study the Divine Services, the Holy Bible, and the writings of the Church Fathers, especially the Desert Fathers.

The apparitions of Medjurgorje have never been approved by the Catholic Church or the Orthodox Church. Furthermore, since one of the seers got pregnant out of wedlock by one of the Franciscan Priests involved in Medjurgorje movement, that proves to me that it is not of God. The fruits are just not there and that is why the local Catholic bishop is not convinced either.

[MoNiCa4316]

Well I don't know...as I said, we'll see whether or not it's true.

[SpyridonOCA]

:wave: What do you all think about Catholic miracles such as Mary seen in Medjugorje or what happened to St. Faustina?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medjugorje
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Faustina_Kowalska
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaplet_of_Divine_Mercy


I'm interested in what you all think :)

Question: What is the Orthodox position on the visitations by the Holy Theotokos to Lourdes, Fatima and Medjugorje? Do we view them as true visitations by the Mother of God? If so, how much importance to we place on them.
Answer: The Orthodox Church has no official position on Lourdes, Fatima or Medjugorje as these events associated with devotion to the Mother of God are within the jurisdiction of the Roman Catholic Church as they involve RC faithful...
http://www.unicorne.org/Orthodoxy/articles/alex_roman/marionology.htm



I hope this helps.