Dietary laws?

[RadicallyTransformedMom]

Does the Orthodox church still follow any OT dietary laws? Are there any foods that you don't eat? Do you eat pork and shellfish? Any info would be helpful..thanks:wave:

[Lukaris]

See http://www.goarch.org/en/ourfaith/articles/article8125.asp

[Natalia.V]

Outside of fasting, there is no dietary restrictions.

[Orthosdoxa]

We fast, and there are rules for fasting, but as far as "dietary laws", ie, foods we are NEVER allowed to eat, no.

Welcome. :wave:

[fuerein]

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't one of the ecumenical councils advise refraining from consuming the blood of an animal? I can't remember but I thought that was in some book I read regarding Orthodox history. I may be wrong though.

[jckstraw72]

thats from the council of Jerusalem in Acts

[fuerein]

Oh... :blush:

Opps, knew I read that somewhere. Anyway, nothing to see here... moving along. :doh:

[Saint Melania]

I know when we were Lutherans our congregation had questioned whether or not we should eat meat from animals that have been strangled (rather than bled out). That is a Jewish dietary law, I believe. Don't know if there is a difference for Christians, or not. Will have to ask my priest about that.

[RadicallyTransformedMom]

I have been asking around some other denominations as well about dietary laws because i know that the pig and the shellfish are actually scavenger animals and there was a good reason for the Jewish dietary law. I am wondering if anyone knows WHY its ok to eat these animals which were considered unclean? It just really confuses me as to how God listed of clean and unclean animals (the unclean animals being scavengers) and saying to the Jews not to eat them. What happened to the pig between Judaism and Christianity? Did the pig change? I still see it is a scavenger! I have yet to find a Christian denomination that still follows the dietary law and i guess i am hoping to find an answer as to WHY they don't? Anybody, can you shed some light?

[Saint Melania]

Acts 10:9-17 - especially, but read the entire 10th chapter of Acts.

[MariaRegina]

Regarding the dietary restriction mentioned in Acts: not to eat food offered to idols.

My priest has told us that we should not partake of food that is offered to false gods, because doing so might be considered 'communion.'

And the question was raised in other threads about Chinese restaurants where they have a Buddha and offer all their food to Buddha before serving it to guests.

Then there is the question raised by others who are of mixed marriages, where the inlaws are non-Christians and have a blessing of foods that might include an offering to their false gods.

So, these are dietary laws relating to Acts that have implications today.

[RadicallyTransformedMom]

i guess my main question is this:

Why did God tell the Jews that pigs and shellfish are scavengers and unclean? And why are they now clean..how did they become CLEAN? they still scavenge don't they?

[MariaRegina]

i guess my main question is this:

Why did God tell the Jews that pigs and shellfish are scavengers and unclean? And why are they now clean..how did they become CLEAN? they still scavenge don't they?

Let me search my New Testament.

I remember the exchange between the Apostle Peter and the Lord in a vision in Acts 10:9 as Saint Melania mentioned above:

"What God has cleansed you must not call common." [unclean]

Acts 10:9-16


Notice that this was done three times.

Three is a very important number.

[Saint Melania]

Notice "the creeping things" in that passage.

[nikolayalexandroff]

In fact, blood is forbidden, but this rule is not observed by many.

[JuvenalyMartinka]

and then there are those that say that the passage referenced in Acts only talks of the Jews and the Gentiles, not to food in general. (wince) Makes no sense when you read the whole passage but that has never stopped them from missing the point of the Scriptures...

[Forest]

In fact, blood is forbidden, but this rule is not observed by many.

Wow, do you know people that drink blood?

[fuerein]

Wow, do you know people that drink blood?
You don't have to drink blood. There are dishes that use the blood, such as blood sausage.

[MariaRegina]

Well there is that gross blood pudding.

I have not had any. :sick:

[Saint Melania]

You don't have to drink blood. There are dishes that use the blood, such as blood sausage.
That's the thing about not eating "things strangled" because the meat is not bled out.

I believe the chicken and meats we buy at the stores are supposed to be bled out. Not positive.... but think it is that way.

[Akathist]

i guess my main question is this:

Why did God tell the Jews that pigs and shellfish are scavengers and unclean? And why are they now clean..how did they become CLEAN? they still scavenge don't they?

They became clean because God cleaned them. See the verse in Acts referred to above.

But also, the incarnation and theophany of Christ all of these things are examples of natural things being sanctified by God. Christs incarnation is essential to our salvation and it is a sanctification of all things natural too. There is mention of this also in the hymns for Theophany.

Now the details of how God cleansed things that were unclean before and made them safe to eat is not for us to fully comprehend. We can trust that the food is clean because the Tradition of the Church teaches us that but also, look at Acts.

I love the thought of how Christ's incarnation and his baptism by St. John effects all of the world, not just human souls. It reminds me of how big God is.

[Macarius]

i guess my main question is this:

Why did God tell the Jews that pigs and shellfish are scavengers and unclean? And why are they now clean..how did they become CLEAN? they still scavenge don't they?
The forbidding of certain foods fits very very nicely into a few typological understandings of Leviticus.

First, Jews were only allowed to eats "pure" animals - that is to say, animals which were the best example of their 'type.' They couldn't eat shellfish because a shellfish wasn't a "fishy fish" - it didn't have the backbone of a true fish. Similarly for animals which do and don't chew the cud or have hooves.

Why would such a thing matter? Only typologically! Jews were the 'type' of humanity - the truly 'human humans' thanks to the ethical law. The food laws symbolized that and gave a constant reminder to the Jews of who they were - God's chosen, those set apart by the revelation of the covenant to be His true humanity. The food laws were a sign of how Jews were separate and different from the Gentiles - they were a racial designation (like physical circumsition)

The second explanation is that not eating certain foods provides a consistent ascetic discipline that circumcizes the heart - that is to say, by learning to obey God in the eating of food one is reminded to obey God in all things and one is tutored to obey God in all things (as the law is a tutor). By denying our desire for a shrimp we die to our old self - Jews however, not having baptism, did not have Christ's transformed human nature to provide a new self, so you see how the Law was merely a tutor and not salvation itself.

In short, the food laws are a form of ascetic fasting.

So why don't we follow those today? Well, how can we fast when the bridegroom is with us? And, since Christ has broken down the wall of enmity, how can we racially set ourselves apart? There is nothing WRONG with creation or certain animals - God has taken on matter and flesh to sanctify all matter and flesh. The physical world is GOOD, and refusing to eat foods once God has lifted the ban (as is evidenced in the NT) would be blasphemous.

Back to the fasting for a moment, because there's a really fantastic typological moment here. Before Christ, the bridegroom was not with Israel (racial Israel), and so they fasted constantly (with their food laws) and would fast more extensively for specific purposes. When Christ was on this earth during His ministry, the bridegroom was directly with Israel (racial and spiritual) and so there was no fasting for His disciples (this is noted in Matthew and Mark). Now, after Christ's glorious resurrection and ascension, the bridegroom is not with us (for He is ascended) and yet IS with us (in particular in the Eucharist, but also in His Church in in the union we have with Him by His activity and grace), therefore we don't fast.

So now, we fast and we don't fast. If you look at the Orthodox Church's calander, exactly half of the year (including the W/F fast) is fasting, and the other half feasting. Right now, the Kingdom is already but not yet here, so we feast for Christ's salvation and fast for our repentance and to die to our old self.

This also forshadows the second coming, when the bridegroom will reside in the New Jerusalem and give light to all the world, and then there will be no need for fasting at all.

So that is why we don't follow Jewish food laws. To do so would be to blaspheme the commands of God through His apostles (in the NT) and would be tantamount to saying that Christ is NEVER with us in this life - in short to denying that Christ accomplished anything on this earth. Since we as Christians can say neither of those things, we fast ascetically (though from different foods from the Jews) and only off and on throughout the year, feasting to celebrate Christ's salvation.

Hope that helps!

In Christ,
Macarius

[vanshan]

Wow, do you know people that drink blood?

Well, you know Transylvania is in Romania, an Orthodox nation.

http://palf.free.fr/sujetsdivers/bep/dracula.jpg

Basil

[Kolya]

So that is why we don't follow Jewish food laws. To do so would be to blaspheme the commands of God through His apostles (in the NT) and would be tantamount to saying that Christ is NEVER with us in this life - in short to denying that Christ accomplished anything on this earth. Since we as Christians can say neither of those things, we fast ascetically (though from different foods from the Jews) and only off and on throughout the year, feasting to celebrate Christ's salvation.
In Christ,
Macarius

Thank you Macarius! That is a brilliant post and the best explanation I've seen since becoming an OC.

Coming as I did from a Sabbatarian background, you have put all the pieces nicely in their place for me. Now I have the ammunition to put my family to explain why I don't keep to the "dietary laws".

Kolya

[Macarius]

Glad I could help!

On a more speculative note - I've often wondered if one of the reasons we are allowed to eat shellfish during fasting periods is to prevent the fast from seeming "Judaic" in a racial sense - you can't say you're following Jewish food laws if you're eating shrimp! :D

[Kolya]

- you can't say you're following Jewish food laws if you're eating shrimp! :D

As our Priest would say, "Not at all, not at all!"^_^

[Tsarina]

Does the Orthodox church still follow any OT dietary laws? Are there any foods that you don't eat? Do you eat pork and shellfish? Any info would be helpful..thanks:wave:

They're two dietary laws that I can think of that the Orthodox Church teaches.
1) Orthodox people are not to eat anything that is given as a sacrifice to idols.
2) You're not allowed to eat blood. All meat should be cooked well done.

[RadicallyTransformedMom]

They're two dietary laws that I can think of that the Orthodox Church teaches.
1) Orthodox people are not to eat anything that is given as a sacrifice to idols.
2) You're not allowed to eat blood. All meat should be cooked well done.
really? Why can't you eat blood?

[Akathist]

The rule about all meat being cooked well done is not followed by most EO's anymore I suspect. I prefer my steaks well done myself but it is personal preference.

But back in the day before refrigerators it made sense to be careful about such matters. Think about the effect of eating a chicken that is cooked rare?

[Thekla]

But back in the day before refrigerators it made sense to be careful about such matters. Think about the effect of eating a chicken that is cooked rare?

hence the use of cinnamon in many Middle Eastern chicken dishes :)

(according to the "why files", cinnamon kills salmonella)

[Akathist]

hence the use of cinnamon in many Middle Eastern chicken dishes :)

(according to the "why files", cinnamon kills salmonella)

I wonder if the cashia tree bark that is sold as "cinnamon" at least in the US also kills salmonella or if it is only the real stuff that does.

Tho I can't imagine cinnamon and chicken being a good combo. (I rarely like a sweet chicken dish myself.)

[Tsarina]

really? Why can't you eat blood?

I can't find the exact verse, but from the New Testament, St. Paul writes against eating the blood of an animal.

This is because in the Old Jewish laws, God commanded his people not to eat or drink the blood of animal. Since the animal has no soul, the thing that kept the animal going and alive was it's blood. Therefore, by eating or drinking the animals blood, it was a disgrace to God's creation.

[gzt]

Tsarina: wow, that is an interpretation I've never heard. I mean, yes, that's a reason not to eat blood sausage, but never heard it applied to rare steaks (or even raw meat).

[Tsarina]

Tsarina: wow, that is an interpretation I've never heard. I mean, yes, that's a reason not to eat blood sausage, but never heard it applied to rare steaks (or even raw meat).

I forgot where I read this interpretation, but I do know it was from Orthodox text. If i find where I got it from, I will post it up. :thumbsup:

There are these little few dietary laws us Orthodox Christians should watch out for, it's not that hard... perhaps it is for some.