Could Satan/Demons Repent?

[Nadiine]

My husband and I were talking about a new Paranormal show (on Monday nights) yesterday and we started discussing how if Satan or demons knows their ultimate end of the Lake of Fire, why don't they repent?

Then we wondered, COULD they even repent??
Could they actually stop hating God & change?

Would they if they could? :confused:

[IisJustMe]

My husband and I were talking about a new Paranormal show (on Monday nights) yesterday and we started discussing how if Satan or demons knows their ultimate end of the Lake of Fire, why don't they repent? Then we wondered, COULD they even repent?? Could they actually stop hating God & change? Would they if they could? :confused:Wow, great questions! I was forced into an old textbook to make sure my initial reaction was correct. The Bible really doesn't address this issue, being as it is the revelation of God's plan and will for man, not angels. However, there is a lot of information from which we can derive answers.

Satan was one of the archangels along with Michael and Gabriel, and may even have "outranked" those two, according to Ezekiel 28:14. He and the rebelious angels who followed him were in the constant presence of God, needing no "convincing" of His existence or glory, yet they nonetheless rebelled. That makes their sin of the worst kind of evil, having full knowledge of who God is, but rejecting Him anyway.

Also, the only plan of redemption in the Bible is for man. None is outlined for the angels or Satan. God also refers to those angels who remain faithful to Him as His "chosen" (Greek, eklektos = "chosen, elect; choicest, excellent preeminence") in I Timothy 5:21. We know from the doctrine of election that nothing can separate those that God chooses, those who make a true and righteous confession of being a sinner in need of a Savior and of accepting Jesus as their Savior, that nothing can separate the elect from God's love and salvation. Clearly those angels in rebellion are not among these.

We know from I Peter 5:8 that the devil roams about the earth as a roaring lion seeking whom he can devour. It is safe to say he has legions of help in that endeavor from among his rebellious cohorts. They are completely devoted to opposing God and attacking His people. One of the things we will be judged on (and I believe it is safe to say also, one of the things we will use as a guide to judge the angels) is the knowledge of God an individual holds:

And that slave who knew his master's will and did not get ready or act in accord with his will, will receive many lashes, but the one who did not know it, and committed deeds worthy of a flogging, will receive but few. From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more. (Luke 12:47, 48)

The knowledge the angels hold regarding God, even the rebellious ones, is far greater than any knowledge any man knows in this life. Therefore their punishment will be far greater, and as they were in His very presence and still rebelled, there is no repentance available to them.

[HypnoToad]

Thomas Aquinas theorized quite a bit on the nature of angels. What he came up with is that it's not a case where God would never forgive them, but rather that they will never ask forgiveness.

He came to the conclusion that angels have what he referred to as a "perfect" free will. A result of this type of will is that once a decision is made, it's permanent and will never be changed. So, the ones who chose to the rebel will simply never change what they chose, just as the ones who chose to be faithful to God will always be faithful.

[DerSchweik]

Excellent questions. To my knowledge, the Bible doesn't specifically address this.

The Bible does speak of hell being prepared specifically for satan and his demons. I suspect satan's judgment has already occurred and that it is irrevocable (hence, the preparation of hell, a consequence of that judgment). If that's true, then he would have to have been given ample opportunity to repent and he chose not to. God is just. And if true, the notion of whether he can or will repent is largely irrelevant - since the judgment has been passed.

I would have to imagine that satan and his followers knew the seriousness of their rebellion and the potential consequences of the same. Presumably, they knew what they were doing. Speculating, perhaps they thought they could "get away with it?" Regardless, their end is determined now, the judgment sure - and they know it.

I guess the same applies to mankind today. God has given man ample opportunity to repent, and ample warning of the consequences of what happens if they do not repent. Speculating on this basis, I think the issue with us, was likely the same with satan, whether or not we/they believe(d) God.

Many men simply refuse to believe God (or "in a God", whatever), despite knowing of Him (Romans 1) and despite all the warnings (or alternatively, all the benefits) God has provided mankind. Some simply either refuse to believe or, if they do believe, could care less - i.e. don't value God or His rewards, preferring their lifestyles to a relationship with Him. Nevertheless, God remains always just.

[zeke37]

http://www3.christianforums.com/images/icons/icon5.gif Could Satan/Demons Repent?


My husband and I were talking about a new Paranormal show (on Monday nights) yesterday and we started discussing how if Satan or demons knows their ultimate end of the Lake of Fire, why don't they repent?

Then we wondered, COULD they even repent??
Could they actually stop hating God & change?

Would they if they could?
absolutely not...they are reserved for judgement...

and there is no resurrection for the giants, which many believe to be the essence of what we now refer to demons....(sons of Anak or Anakim and many other names)

Satan IS the son of Perdition, and will go into perdition....destroyed forever, turned to ashes....



can Satan repent? Wouldn't do him any good.....he and the fallen angels have already been judged....

opposite of the elect who have likewise already been judged...but on the happy side. *Important to realize that not all Christians are elect.....

The fallen angels and the elect were judged in the age before the foundations of the world...for them, it's a done deal....


everyone else has free will...and will be judged...but not those fallen angels and demons...'cause they are already judged by God...Our Father used them and is using them and their evil,...for the greater good.....trust Him...

in Christ's service
c

[zeke37]

Thomas Aquinas theorized quite a bit on the nature of angels. What he came up with is that it's not a case where God would never forgive them, but rather that they will never ask forgiveness.

He came to the conclusion that angels have what he referred to as a "perfect" free will. A result of this type of will is that once a decision is made, it's permanent and will never be changed. So, the ones who chose to the rebel will simply never change what they chose, just as the ones who chose to be faithful to God will always be faithful.
Ez 28 would render this theory incorrect...

Satan was PERFECT, and then changed because of his free will....and Jude tells us the fallen's final destination....destruction...

in His service
c

[HypnoToad]

Ez 28 would render this theory incorrect...

Satan was PERFECT, and then changed because of his free will....and Jude tells us the fallen's final destination....destruction...

in His service
c
??
I don't see how Ezekiel does that.

[stone]

http://reluctant-messenger.com/book_of_enoch.htm


the answer would be that they did, and were rejected by g-d for their sins against man


***

And now, the giants, who are produced from the spirits and flesh, shall be called evil spirits upon 9 the earth, and on the earth shall be their dwelling. Evil spirits have proceeded from their bodies; because they are born from men and from the holy Watchers is their beginning and primal origin; 10 they shall be evil spirits on earth, and evil spirits shall they be called. [As for the spirits of heaven, in heaven shall be their dwelling, but as for the spirits of the earth which were born upon the earth, on the earth shall be their dwelling.] And the spirits of the giants afflict, oppress, destroy, attack, do battle, and work destruction on the earth, and cause trouble: they take no food, but nevertheless 12 hunger and thirst, and cause offences. And these spirits shall rise up against the children of men and against the women, because they have proceeded from them.

***

Genesis 6


1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, 2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. 5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. 7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them. 8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

[DerSchweik]

Ez 28 would render this theory incorrect...

Satan was PERFECT, and then changed because of his free will....and Jude tells us the fallen's final destination....destruction...

in His service
c
Guess I'm confused by the reference to Ezekiel 28 as well...

[Brother Jason]

Jude 1:6

I would have to say no. They're gonna stay where they are.

[ozell]

Jude 1:6

I would have to say no. They're gonna stay where they are.

:amen:

Jn 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

[bluemarkus]

god can destroy satan by making him a good angel again.
god creates things forever.
satan is a tool in the hands of god.
what would life be like if everything would be purely good ?
it would be not worth living !

[DerSchweik]

[snip]
what would life be like if everything would be purely good ?
it would be not worth living !

Can't agree with this. Are you saying life is the better for living with evil in the world? :scratch:

...and if not, what do you think heaven will be like? Am I missing something?? :scratch:

[IisJustMe]

god can destroy satan by making him a good angel again.That's not what happens, though. I read the end of the book. Satan goes to the Lake of Fire.

[Lightcreated]

It's impossible. satin will be destroyed as will all of those who are not raptured.

[Svt4Him]

God has already judged them, so they can not repent.

Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

[Nadiine]

It's impossible. satin will be destroyed as will all of those who are not raptured.
No, I know it's impossible --- but I was wondering WHY.

Like,... I know I've changed my mind ... my HEART changes towards different things or people...

I more wonder about why Satan couldn't change his heart IF he realized he was going to be eternally in Gehenna....
He can't WANT that & he has to KNOW that God will win & put him there. (or does he actually think he can beat God at this??)
:scratch: I guess I just don't understand his mentality becuz of what he knows as FACT about God & God's power & word that always comes to pass.
He KNOWS scripture.... his end is prophecied.

[bluemarkus]

you guys are funny...

the lake of fire = gone, not there anymore, deleted, missing

so when satan will be missing, deleted, not there anymore, this could mean he is destroyed, but this is human thinking,because god never meant to destroy things, he CREATES things, the only thing that destroys on earth (our realm) is SATAN !

so when god transfers satan again into a good angel, satan exists no more, is thrown into the lake of fire.

[Nadiine]

what would life be like if everything would be purely good ?
it would be not worth living !
Well, um... if that's true, then eternal life with God when sin & death are gone won't be worth living either
:o

:help:

(no offense blue, but which 'bible' do you read?)

[IisJustMe]

you guys are funny... the lake of fire = gone, not there anymore, deleted, missingCare to explain how you arrived at that conclusion? It's futuristic in nature. Something that hasn't happened yet can't be "missing" "gone" or "not there anymore."so when satan will be missing, deleted, not there anymore, this could mean he is destroyed, but this is human thinking,because god never meant to destroy things, he CREATES things, the only thing that destroys on earth (our realm) is SATAN !I think you might be well advised to reread Revelation

[Nadiine]

Care to explain how you arrived at that conclusion? It's futuristic in nature. Something that hasn't happened yet can't be "missing" "gone" or "not there anymore."I think you might be well advised to reread Revelation
:thumbsup:

I honestly don't know how much clearer the Bible could be than what it already spells right out for us in detail -
why people disregard things is beyond me.
I can easily understand not being able to fully understand or know something that is not spelled out in much detail for us, and/or subjects that have other scriptures which add more parallels to it. Sometimes alot more study is needed to fully grasp that subject.

But people are even making the simple ones confused or ignoring it altogether to create personalized doctrines. :| :sigh:

[bill16652]

The doctrines that are out there really scare me at times, not for myself as I am well grounded but for those that read this stuff.

[IisJustMe]

:thumbsup: I honestly don't know how much clearer the Bible could be than what it already spells right out for us in detail - why people disregard things is beyond me. I can easily understand not being able to fully understand or know something that is not spelled out in much detail for us, and/or subjects that have other scriptures which add more parallels to it. Sometimes alot more study is needed to fully grasp that subject. But people are even making the simple ones confused or ignoring it altogether to create personalized doctrines. :| :sigh:The doctrines that are out there really scare me at times, not for myself as I am well grounded but for those that read this stuff.Amen to both of you. Ditto and me too.

[MaidforHim]

I haven't read the replies yet, but I just watched the Gospel of John and I think they quoted a verse that said satan had already been judged. Anyone know what verse that would be? I would assume that would include his angels, we know he has been partially punished by being cast out of heaven so that indicates some judgement at least. And we k now from scripture that he'll be set loose for a while after the 1000 yr reign and then cast into the lake of fire so? On going sin on going judgment and punishment? I don't know.

Could he repent? I don't know since God can see the beginning from the end and knows that satan will not repent and has told us so, I know he will not repent.

Could he have done so? I don't know, but it obviously wasn't in him to do so. I think if it were possible the time for that most likely came and went before he was cast out of heaven? Or before the death of Jesus.

I have wondered before it satan really does know the end and if he really does believe God's word. Satan is filled with pride and maybe he thinks he has a chance at victory. Pride can really blind someone to the truth and so can agner, hatred and denial.

I read part of the book of Enoch and I know those extra books are not anywhere close to the Bible in accuracy, but it was interesting. It mentioned that satan and the angels that followed him thought they knew all the mysteries, but in reality they actually knew very little when they were cast out. I don't know if that is true because of the source, but it is an interesting possibility.

Are there any scriptures that give us a clue? I don't remember reading any.

[DerSchweik]

< Snip > so when god transfers satan again into a good angel, satan exists no more, is thrown into the lake of fire.
Where do you get this stuff? :scratch:
No offense - but you're not making much sense.

[zeke37]

No, I know it's impossible --- but I was wondering WHY.

Like,... I know I've changed my mind ... my HEART changes towards different things or people...

I more wonder about why Satan couldn't change his heart IF he realized he was going to be eternally in Gehenna....

hello, he is going to the lake of Fire which destroyes souls....forever.

He can't WANT that & he has to KNOW that God will win & put him there. (or does he actually think he can beat God at this??)

that is my guess...

:scratch: I guess I just don't understand his mentality becuz of what he knows as FACT about God & God's power & word that always comes to pass.
He KNOWS scripture.... his end is prophecied.

:prayer: for wisdom....

[zeke37]

Guess I'm confused by the reference to Ezekiel 28 as well...

well Ez 28 tells us 3 visions, 2 of which are about the son of Perdition who is Satan....as a prince(type) and a king ...who we also know as Satan, who was the Old Serpent(symbolic name in the Garden of Eden), and what happened to him, what he was like before and after his change. Satan was perfect at one time....but is going to be destroyed forever...turned to ashes....


while I agree with Blue Markus that the Lake of Fire destroys completely and is where God can destroy souls, the second death....I disagree with him about Satan being changed to good.

there is a scripture which seems to indicate that even Satan will be transformed into an angel of light but that is only in some English translations....most non English translation and the Greek texts do not say transformed, but rather disguised....

in His service
c

[Reformationist]

My husband and I were talking about a new Paranormal show (on Monday nights) yesterday and we started discussing how if Satan or demons knows their ultimate end of the Lake of Fire, why don't they repent?

Then we wondered, COULD they even repent??
Could they actually stop hating God & change?

Would they if they could? :confused:

Like fallen, unregenerate man, fallen angels likely have the natural ability to make choices. However, in much the same way that unregenerate man naturally despises the things of God, a disposition which inherently prevents him from repententing while in an unregenerate state, the fallen angels also lack the moral capacity to act in such a fashion, as it is contradictory to their exclusively ungodly nature.

In short, the inability of the demons to repent stems from their utter lack of desire to do so. If God were to work in them to create a nature that desires to submit to God, such as He does in the hearts of His elect, then the demons, like God's elect, would repent and embrace Christ as Lord and Savior.

God bless

[Sunrise78]

No, I know it's impossible --- but I was wondering WHY.

Like,... I know I've changed my mind ... my HEART changes towards different things or people...

I more wonder about why Satan couldn't change his heart IF he realized he was going to be eternally in Gehenna....
He can't WANT that & he has to KNOW that God will win & put him there. (or does he actually think he can beat God at this??)
:scratch: I guess I just don't understand his mentality becuz of what he knows as FACT about God & God's power & word that always comes to pass.
He KNOWS scripture.... his end is prophecied.

I think Satan and the demons have hardened their hearts so much that they can no longer repent. If one sees God perfectly clearly, as He truly is, in all his goodness, beauty, and awesomeness - as Satan surely did - and then rejects Him - there is absolutely no excuse. Just swift judgment. There is no reason why a being who has seen God in this perfect way and rejected him would WANT to repent, since he has made his choice. For him it wasn't even a matter of having faith, it was sight, all in front of him - and he rejected it.

I too have also wondered whether Satan really thinks he can win or not ... does he think that the Bible is not true and that he will overthrow God at the end, or does he really know that he is doomed and is just trying to pull down as many people down to hell with him as he can?

[fritz300]

Based on certain run ins during spiritual warfare, yes.

We have seen several fallen angels repent.

They have free will just like us, but, usually their pride overruns their ability to utilize the full capacity of their intellect and has hardened their heart.

[Reformationist]

If one sees God perfectly clearly, as He truly is, in all his goodness, beauty, and awesomeness - as Satan surely did - and then rejects Him - there is absolutely no excuse.

There is never an excuse, no matter how clearly you've "seen" God.

I too have also wondered whether Satan really thinks he can win or not ... does he think that the Bible is not true and that he will overthrow God at the end, or does he really know that he is doomed and is just trying to pull down as many people down to hell with him as he can?

Satan is acting as an utterly depraved creation will act. He is merely being who he is. As for what he knows, satan is not omniscient. Satan isn't rebelling because he thinks he can win. He's rebelling because he is corrupt and against God in all his ways.

God bless

[kallenfranchise]

God said he's the Alpha and the Omega, he knows all, and he sees all. He already know their destiny and states it in the Bible. They will suffer in hell.

[Sunrise78]

There is never an excuse, no matter how clearly you've "seen" God.

I wasn't saying that there is an excuse ... only that there is LESS of an excuse when everything is right in front of you. The condemnation is greater for those who have greater knowledge - e.g., Luke 12:48b - "From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded, and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked." That has to be more true for angels than for any human.

Satan is acting as an utterly depraved creation will act. He is merely being who he is. As for what he knows, satan is not omniscient. Satan isn't rebelling because he thinks he can win. He's rebelling because he is corrupt and against God in all his ways.

God bless

But couldn't that corruption and rebellion have led Satan to become so prideful that he might actually think he could win? That he could overthrow God, a la Isaiah 14:12-14?

I'm not necessarily saying that I believe this to be absolutely true - you may be right. I'm just throwing the question out there for the sake of discussion.

[Flynmonkie]

John 16:1-11 (King James Version)

1These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended.

2They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.

3And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me.

4But these things have I told you, that when the time shall come, ye may remember that I told you of them. And these things I said not unto you at the beginning, because I was with you.

5But now I go my way to him that sent me; and none of you asketh me, Whither goest thou?

6But because I have said these things unto you, sorrow hath filled your heart.

7Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

8And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

9Of sin, because they believe not on me;

10Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged


Hi Itsjustme!:wave:

[zeke37]

Based on certain run ins during spiritual warfare, yes.

We have seen several fallen angels repent.

They have free will just like us, but, usually their pride overruns their ability to utilize the full capacity of their intellect and has hardened their heart.

could prove this statement by the Word? Curious...

[zeke37]

God said he's the Alpha and the Omega, he knows all, and he sees all. He already know their destiny and states it in the Bible. They will suffer in hell.
their soul shall be destroyed in the Lake of Fire....forever and ever...

[Reformationist]

I wasn't saying that there is an excuse ... only that there is LESS of an excuse when everything is right in front of you. The condemnation is greater for those who have greater knowledge - e.g., Luke 12:48b - "From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded, and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked." That has to be more true for angels than for any human.

I know what you were saying and, to an extent, I agree. I just think the wording is misleading, as how can there be "less of an excuse" than "no excuse at all?"

But couldn't that corruption and rebellion have led Satan to become so prideful that he might actually think he could win? That he could overthrow God, a la Isaiah 14:12-14?

I'm not necessarily saying that I believe this to be absolutely true - you may be right. I'm just throwing the question out there for the sake of discussion.

Well, I see your reasoning but, anyone who's ever suffered from pride knows that it may cause you to deny what you know is true but it doesn't cause you to truly start believing what you know is impossible. I think, being a created being, intimately knowing the power and authority of God as satan does, he surely knows that he is no match. He may deny it and act according to his evil desires but I doubt he believes he could overthrow God.

God bless

[IisJustMe]

I think Satan and the demons have hardened their hearts so much that they can no longer repent.They never could. It is as you said just below this, they had full knowledge of God and still rebelled, so there is no excuse, and no way out. I too have also wondered whether Satan really thinks he can win or not ... does he think that the Bible is not true and that he will overthrow God at the end, or does he really know that he is doomed and is just trying to pull down as many people down to hell with him as he can?If he were human, we would say he is insane, presented with the undeniable truth and yet convinced his view is right and we are all insane. Since he is an angel of darkness, I don't know how to explain his behavior, except to say that yes, I think his ego will not allow him to believe he is not greater than God and that he believes he will subvert God's purpose and change the course of future history -- which of course, he can't.

[Svt4Him]

John 16:1-11 (King James Version)

1These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended.

2They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.

3And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me.

4But these things have I told you, that when the time shall come, ye may remember that I told you of them. And these things I said not unto you at the beginning, because I was with you.

5But now I go my way to him that sent me; and none of you asketh me, Whither goest thou?

6But because I have said these things unto you, sorrow hath filled your heart.

7Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

8And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

9Of sin, because they believe not on me;

10Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged


Hi Itsjustme!:wave:

Great post. As I mentioned they are already judged, as this clearly says, as it says in another place:

And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Notice, not could be, but will be...

Matthew 25:41 (Jesus speaking to people at final judgment), ...Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels.

Can't really be clearer than that. But wait:

And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way. And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither TO TORMENT US BEFORE THE TIME?” (Matthew 8:28,29).

Why didn't Jesus simply ask them to repent, why did they know there would be a time in the future? Well, they were already judged.

James 2:19, “Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and TREMBLE.

Don't repent, but tremble, as their time will come.

I would challenge anyone who makes a claim they can repent to prove it. They say they repent, but they also lie. So then we'd need to see what the Bible says, and how it contradicts what's above.

[icedtea]

Amen. We are saved by faith, not sight. They see God so no faith could be involved.
They cannot be saved, have passed the point of no return.

[bithiah2]

absolutely not...they are reserved for judgement...

and there is no resurrection for the giants, which many believe to be the essence of what we now refer to demons....(sons of Anak or Anakim and many other names)

Satan IS the son of Perdition, and will go into perdition....destroyed forever, turned to ashes....



can Satan repent? Wouldn't do him any good.....he and the fallen angels have already been judged....

opposite of the elect who have likewise already been judged...but on the happy side. *Important to realize that not all Christians are elect.....

The fallen angels and the elect were judged in the age before the foundations of the world...for them, it's a done deal....


everyone else has free will...and will be judged...but not those fallen angels and demons...'cause they are already judged by God...Our Father used them and is using them and their evil,...for the greater good.....trust Him...

in Christ's service
c

Revelation 12:12
12 Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time.”

the devil knows his destination already, it cannot be changed. he is going to the lake that burns with fire and brimstone forever and ever:amen:

and i do not feel sorry for him. i'm glad.

[Sunrise78]

I know what you were saying and, to an extent, I agree. I just think the wording is misleading, as how can there be "less of an excuse" than "no excuse at all?"

You're right, perhaps I am not wording that correctly ... it's not so much a matter of excuse as it is of being held responsible for the level of knowledge one has.

In other words, no one has any excuse for rejecting God. However, there are different levels of responsibility, as Luke 12 demonstrates. Satan and his angels would be pretty high up on the list in terms of responsibility, with their level of knowledge.

Well, I see your reasoning but, anyone who's ever suffered from pride knows that it may cause you to deny what you know is true but it doesn't cause you to truly start believing what you know is impossible. I think, being a created being, intimately knowing the power and authority of God as satan does, he surely knows that he is no match. He may deny it and act according to his evil desires but I doubt he believes he could overthrow God.

God bless

You make a good point.

Thanks for the reply! :)

[ozell]

Rev12v7: And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8: And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9: And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10: And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

11: And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

12: Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

satan and his crew had a chance to repent and stop there foolishness, they continued, day and night.

God is very merciful, God has a cutoff point
with man and angels, all are his created.

Ezek 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

satan accused the the good angels day and night until the Lord found the iniquity in him. The Lord let him continue, satan could have stopped.

The Lord knows everything.

Satan could have stopped and the Lord knew that he would not.

Jesus took a theif like Judas to betray him.

Judas could have not betrayed Jesus.

but Judas was not born wicked he became a wicked man.

satan was created a perfect angel ,satan became a wicked angel

[Nadiine]

Amen. We are saved by faith, not sight. They see God so no faith could be involved.
They cannot be saved, have passed the point of no return.
This is how I view the details too. They lived with God and knew God -- there's no faith involved with angels & I think that's why they don't recieve the same "salvation" we are offered.

So it makes you question what Satan knew PRIOR to his fall -- [thinking out loud] the Bible wasn't written yet, so maybe he didn't know he'd be cast into the Lake of Fire eternally???
But after he rebelled, there was no turning back. God kicked him out & now that he knows there's no "repenting", he's out for as much damage as he can do?

(but then, he doesn't take anyone that God hasn't preordained for destruction anyways... so how much damage does he actually do when God knew they weren't going to be His??).
:scratch: :confused:
(needs another coffee) :doh:

[IisJustMe]

So it makes you question what Satan knew PRIOR to his fall -- [thinking out loud] the Bible wasn't written yet, so maybe he didn't know he'd be cast into the Lake of Fire eternally???Good question. Though he may not have known the exact consequences, he certainly knew there were going to be some for trying to usurp God's throne. It almost goes back to my earlier post, that if he were human we would call him insane. Maybe there is insanity among the angels too, but I doubt it.But after he rebelled, there was no turning back. God kicked him out & now that he knows there's no "repenting", he's out for as much damage as he can do?I really believe he thinks he can alter future history. He is like many people, in that he believes himself to be above the need of God, in fact believing himself to be a god in his own right.(but then, he doesn't take anyone that God hasn't preordained for destruction anyways... so how much damage does he actually do when God knew they weren't going to be His??). :scratch: :confused: God doesn't "preordain" anyone for destruction. Knowing they aren't going to be His isn't the same as determining in advance that they won't be His. It hurts Him beyond our understanding to see His creations reject Him, but He would be capricious and going completely against His nature to create something He would use against His own purposes. That would be insanity.[quote=Nadiine;42046464](needs another coffee) :doh:/quote]Ditto.

[DArceri]

The Bible does speak of hell being prepared specifically for satan and his demons. I suspect satan's judgment has already occurred and that it is irrevocable (hence, the preparation of hell, a consequence of that judgment). If that's true, then he would have to have been given ample opportunity to repent and he chose not to. God is just. And if true, the notion of whether he can or will repent is largely irrelevant - since the judgment has been passed.
:thumbsup: Also, The Book of Revelation gives us the answer if Satan and his demons ever repented, RIGHT?!..... Case closed.

[HypnoToad]

:thumbsup: Also, The Book of Revelation gives us the answer if Satan and his demons ever repented, RIGHT?!..... Case closed.
Sure, but we're not really concerned with if they will.

The question of the OP is why not - is it because God would never forgive if they did ask - or is it because they would never ask.

[DArceri]

Sure, but we're not really concerned with if they will.

The question of the OP is why not - is it because God would never forgive if they did ask - or is it because they would never ask.

WELL, I GAVE A THUMBS UP TO A RESPONSE BY DERCHWEIK....MY RESPONSE WAS TO THIS GREAT ANSWER WHICH I AM IN TOTAL AGREEMENT TO... I ENDED WITH THE REMINDER OF THE BOOK OF REVELATION WHICH PROOVES SATAN OBVIOUSLY NEVER WAS GOING TO REPENT:


Originally Posted by DerSchweik http://www3.christianforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=41906227#post41906227)
The Bible does speak of hell being prepared specifically for satan and his demons. I suspect satan's judgment has already occurred and that it is irrevocable (hence, the preparation of hell, a consequence of that judgment). If that's true, then he would have to have been given ample opportunity to repent and he chose not to. God is just. And if true, the notion of whether he can or will repent is largely irrelevant - since the judgment has been passed.

[HypnoToad]

WELL, I GAVE A THUMBS UP TO A RESPONSE BY DERCHWEIK....MY RESPONSE WAS TO THIS GREAT ANSWER WHICH I AM IN TOTAL AGREEMENT TO... I ENDED WITH THE REMINDER OF THE BOOK OF REVELATION WHICH PROOVES SATAN OBVIOUSLY NEVER WAS GOING TO REPENT:


Originally Posted by DerSchweik http://www3.christianforums.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=41906227#post41906227)
The Bible does speak of hell being prepared specifically for satan and his demons. I suspect satan's judgment has already occurred and that it is irrevocable (hence, the preparation of hell, a consequence of that judgment). If that's true, then he would have to have been given ample opportunity to repent and he chose not to. God is just. And if true, the notion of whether he can or will repent is largely irrelevant - since the judgment has been passed.
The only problem is that the "preparation of hell" he refers to is being looked at in a time-bound perspective. God is not bound by time and already has full knowledge of what we think of as "the future".

There's nothing requiring the preparation of hell to mean the devil has already been "judged". It could just as easily be because God already knows a) He will never forgive the devil, or b) the devil will never repent. An actual "judgement" is not required yet.

[Svt4Him]

The only problem is that the "preparation of hell" he refers to is being looked at in a time-bound perspective. God is not bound by time and already has full knowledge of what we think of as "the future".

There's nothing requiring the preparation of hell to mean the devil has already been "judged". It could just as easily be because God already knows a) He will never forgive the devil, or b) the devil will never repent. An actual "judgement" is not required yet.

Many verses have been posted that show he has been judged though.

[DArceri]

The only problem is that the "preparation of hell" he refers to is being looked at in a time-bound perspective. God is not bound by time and already has full knowledge of what we think of as "the future".

There's nothing requiring the preparation of hell to mean the devil has already been "judged". It could just as easily be because God already knows a) He will never forgive the devil, or b) the devil will never repent. An actual "judgement" is not required yet.
DOES IT MATTER? ALL WE KNOW IS GOD IS BOTH JUST AND HOLY. THAT IS GOD'S CHARACTER AND ESSENCE. IF YOU TAKE THAT TO BE TRUE THEN GOD'S JUDGEMENT IS GOING TO BE A JUST JUDGEMENT!!! WHO ARE WE TO SAY OTHERWISE. NOW REVELATION TELLS US THE ANSWER MY FRIEND. SATAN IS JUDGED AND THROWN INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE, AND IT WAS TOTALLY JUST IN GOD'S EYES. WHAT'S LEFT TO DEBATE?

[HypnoToad]

Many verses have been posted that show he has been judged though.
Such as ... ?

DOES IT MATTER? ALL WE KNOW IS GOD IS BOTH JUST AND HOLY. THAT IS GOD'S CHARACTER AND ESSENCE. IF YOU TAKE THAT TO BE TRUE THEN GOD'S JUDGEMENT IS GOING TO BE A JUST JUDGEMENT!!! WHO ARE WE TO SAY OTHERWISE. NOW REVELATION TELLS US THE ANSWER MY FRIEND. SATAN IS JUDGED AND THROWN INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE, AND IT WAS TOTALLY JUST IN GOD'S EYES. WHAT'S LEFT TO DEBATE?
What's with the caps? Why yell? No one is questioning God being just. Where did that come from?

[DArceri]

Such as ... ?


What's with the caps? Why yell? No one is questioning God being just. Where did that come from?
Sorry about the caps. I typed it in caps without looking up from my keyboard. I got lazy and didn't want to retype it. Anyone, God being just is how we know what Satan's response is. So my answer still holds. God's decision is always going to be a just one, and if it is a just one, I would suggest that Satan didn't repent then or will he ever repent. God is all knowing, right?

[HypnoToad]

Anyone, God being just is how we know what Satan's response is. So my answer still holds. God's decision is always going to be a just one, and if it is a just one, I would suggest that Satan didn't repent then or will he ever repent. God is all knowing, right?
It seems as though you still don't understand what the question is.

No one is suggesting the devil DID repent, no one is suggesting he WILL repent, no one is asking if he WILL.

The question is COULD he, if he were hypothetically so inclined? And, if he COULD, would God then forgive him? This is TOTALLY apart from what WILL happen - we already know Satan will be damned - that is not the issue here - we are talking strictly about a hypothetical situation.

[DArceri]

It seems as though you still don't understand what the question is.

No one is suggesting the devil DID repent, no one is suggesting he WILL repent, no one is asking if he WILL.

The question is COULD he, if he were hypothetically so inclined? And, if he COULD, would God then forgive him? This is TOTALLY apart from what WILL happen - we already know Satan will be damned - that is not the issue here - we are talking strictly about a hypothetical situation.
HypoToad,
I was responding not to the OP but putting out an agreement with another post. I also made it known to you that I was responding to another post. The flow of responses between you and me resulted from my agreement with that post. You just now reverted the question back to the OP. If you look at my first responses, and your responses to mine, you will see that the OP 'hypo' was not the point of beginning between us.

[HypnoToad]

HypoToad,
I was responding not to the OP but putting out an agreement with another post. The flow of responses between you and me resulted from my agreement with that post. You just now reverted the question back to the OP. If you look at my first responses, and your responses to mine, you will see that the OP 'hypo' was not the point of beginning between us.
I understand that. But some were still trying to answer the OP with the idea that we know what will happen to the devil - I'm pointing out that that is not what the OP is about. To which you brought this whole "God is just" thing in, which was never questioned, and then still tried to answer me with "we know he won't" (the end of your previous post).

[DArceri]

I understand that. But some were still trying to answer the OP with the idea that we know what will happen to the devil - I'm pointing out that that is not what the OP is about. To which you brought this whole "God is just" thing in, which was never questioned, and then still tried to answer me with "we know he won't" (the end of your previous post).
Sorry about being off topic. I just liked a response and I gave it a thumbs up. Everything that followed was just me trying to respond to that post in particular. Hope I didn't take away from the flow.

[Svt4Him]

Such as ... ?




See post 34, 39, and 41.

[Reformationist]

You're right, perhaps I am not wording that correctly ... it's not so much a matter of excuse as it is of being held responsible for the level of knowledge one has.

In other words, no one has any excuse for rejecting God. However, there are different levels of responsibility, as Luke 12 demonstrates. Satan and his angels would be pretty high up on the list in terms of responsibility, with their level of knowledge.

Now that, my sister, is absolutely true, and satan will suffer the full wrath of God for his iniquity.

Thanks for the reply! :)

Thank you. God bless and happy new year! :wave:

[Sunrise78]

Good question. Though he may not have known the exact consequences, he certainly knew there were going to be some for trying to usurp God's throne. It almost goes back to my earlier post, that if he were human we would call him insane. Maybe there is insanity among the angels too, but I doubt it.

I don't think that Satan was ignorant of the fact that there would be consequences to what he was going to do. Whether he knew exactly what those consequences would be is a different matter. In my opinion, with his level of knowledge/power/understanding he probably knew that there would be eternal consequences (or at least the threat of them, if indeed he has deluded himself into the insane idea that he could defeat God).

[Sunrise78]

God bless and happy new year! :wave:


Thanks, you too! God bless! :wave: