Converting from Catholic to Protestant

[finchuck]

I was never a hard-practicing Catholic, but I have gone through all the sacraments up to and including Confirmation. I go to a Catholic college and still am not a practicing Catholic. Up until recently I doubted a lot of things that I have faith in now and this brings me to a question in my faith. After reading a lot of stuff I've found that with a Protestant congregation I feel like I might be able to get closer to God. I don't feel the need to go through priests in order to form a relationship with Jesus but that's how I feel being a Catholic.

What does converting from Catholic to Protestant entail? Does it require anything other than converting in my own mind? I understand that I'm a Christian either way and the basic faith is the same. I just feel restricted as a Catholic whereas I might be able to work on my relationship with Jesus a lot more as a Protestant.

Thanks for your help guys.

[Metanoia02]

While I can't go into the details on this forum, if you want to clearly understand what you are giving up, I invite you to come to the OBOB forum to make sure you understand what you are considering. Either way, may God be with you!

[BBAS 64]

I was never a hard-practicing Catholic, but I have gone through all the sacraments up to and including Confirmation. I go to a Catholic college and still am not a practicing Catholic. Up until recently I doubted a lot of things that I have faith in now and this brings me to a question in my faith. After reading a lot of stuff I've found that with a Protestant congregation I feel like I might be able to get closer to God. I don't feel the need to go through priests in order to form a relationship with Jesus but that's how I feel being a Catholic.

What does converting from Catholic to Protestant entail? Does it require anything other than converting in my own mind? I understand that I'm a Christian either way and the basic faith is the same. I just feel restricted as a Catholic whereas I might be able to work on my relationship with Jesus a lot more as a Protestant.

Thanks for your help guys.
Welcome Finchuck,

I can to some extent understand where you are coming from. Your relationship with God is your relationship. I do not think the church of Rome says you have to go though a priest to have that, sometimes it feels like that is what they "local churches" are teaching. It seems either local churches do not understand all of what Rome teaches or that Rome suffers an inabilty to clearly and logicly explain their own techinging in an understandable way to it's clergy and memebers.IMHO

What does converting from Catholic to Protestant entail?
I do not know of any set of rules that apply to this conversion. My conversion was solely based upon the Scripture and the agreement with God of my own fallen condition, the clear teaching that Jesus paid it all, I am now his and he is now mine, and that he loves me for me not because of what I do and fail to do. Matter of the mind for me to some extent yes, but more a matter of the heart.

Work on your relationship with him to your best abilty with all that you have, all that you are. I found that ever since my conversion I am closer to God than I ever was before.

For His Glory Alone! :clap:


BBAS

[JillLars]

I was raised catholic and went through all the sacraments up to confirmation, and I go to a Lutheran church now. I don't consider it "converting" because I am simply switching denominations, I was a Christian while I was Catholic, and I'm a Christian now that I'm Lutheran, in fact, I prefer to be identified as a Christian, rather than by a specific denomination.

[Fiat]

Why do you feel restricted as a Catholic? I'm confused. And why do you feel it necessary to "feel the need to go through priests in order to form a relationship with Jesus but that's how I feel being a Catholic." ? A relationship with Jesus is between you and Jesus. Are you referring to confession/penance in this statement?

[Bruce S]

While I can't go into the details on this forum, if you want to clearly understand what you are giving up, I invite you to come to the OBOB forum to make sure you understand what you are considering. Either way, may God be with you!Argh. Why did you post this here? This man came HERE to talk to US, not have Catholics come and tell him to get back INTO the RCC faith! This is exactly what we Protestants have been asking in this forum. Leave US alone to deal with OUR issues. You have your own forum, if this man wanted the opinions of Catholics, he would have posted there.

K?

[JillLars]

Relax bruce, metanoia was simply extending an invitation, he/she may feel restricted by the catholic faith because he/she may not fully understand it. I have come to know loads more about the Catholic faith from members on this board, does that mean I'm going to leave the Lutheran church I go to? nope, it doesn't change my decision, but I have been very happy to have the oppurtunity to talk with the Catholics on this board, it isn't about winning people, its about informing people, and met didn't do anything wrong by inviting this member to visit the OBOB boards. So, take a chill pill! :)

[Bruce S]

OK ...

Here is my conversion story.

I was raised a Roman Catholic. Went to RCC gradeschool, Mass every Sunday, choir. At one point, in my adolescence, I even wanted to be a priest. Hard to believe that now.

As a young adult, I got consumed with the desire for money, power, fame, fortune. Worked excessively, compulsively, I thought that I HAD to achieve, ,to provide, to BE SOMEONE, something, make a niche for myself. It was terrible actually, the powerdriving.

I had no faith, put God on the back burner, never even gave Him a thought.

I found myself drinking a little at nights to calm my nerves, and help me sleep. At first, it was a good thing, worked well, allowed me to perform better, but over time, that turned out to be a curse. I became alcoholic, slowly, over the years I started to lose what I wanted. It resulted in a divorce, shame, degredation, terrible things, terrible times.

I went for help, rehab, and in AA they stress the need for a relationship with God. I wanted that, sought it, prayed a LITTLE, went to church, Catholic and Protestant for a time, NOTHING, absolutely nothing happened. My relationship did not "kick in" I asked why, why, others "got IT" I didn't. So I settled in without God and tried to continue in my quest for restoration of all I had lost.

Fast foreward, ten years of sobriety.

I got behind in paying taxes, had a new business, new wife, son, and life had some promise again. BUT the inability to find the means to pay those back taxes weighed on me, consumed me, I COULD NOT see a way out of the mess of those debts. So, despite that decade of AA, I got frustrated when some people there hurt me, deeply, and walked on that. Of course, what always happens when one does that happened to me. Drinking became an option again, and I succumbed.

This two years of drinking took me where no man should go. I got arrested for an act of terrible judgement while drunk, something that I didn't even KNOW was a crime, but KNEW was "wrong". I was on TV, my family was shamed, it was the final nail in my coffin. Destruction loomed. Then to top this story off, I got sued for an internet post, told the truth about a flim flam company, they hated that, sued me personally, ,AND corporately.

I have spent over 100k in legal bills, and had to file for bankruptcy. I was forced back into ANOTHER rehab, and rejoined AA, embarrassement was total. Here I was "Mr. AA" the guy that started meetings, sponsored many, talked and walked the line, and I'm back, as a rank beginner again. You have no idea how that crushed my ego.

I came back to the second and third steps of AA.

2. "Came to believe that a power greater than ourselves, could restore us to sanity."

3. "Made a DECISION to turn our will, and our lives, over to the care of God as I understood him."

Now I had tried this before, for years. But I knew I had to conform, to do this. So I went back to church again.

The RCC faith was not the answer, I looked at it again, but the Legalisms, the emphasis on ritual, the dullness, the works issues, fear and scaring that I saw as an emphasis there, the Mary worship, this all was something that I didn't want. It turned me off totally, I knew, deep in my heart, that if I were to try this again, I would fail. I couldn't fail again, I was NOT going to get another shot at this again, I needed to get God, not think about getting God.

I went to several Protestant church's, for a few months, I tried, honestly to "get IT" and like before, nothing worked, it was gratifying, they were good people, they were kind, but the spirit of God wasn't entering into my soul
and life.

Finally, somehow, the Lord said to me "try this other place". I had no idea why, I didn't even know the name of the church, or the denomination.

Standing at the door, looking in, watching all those people carrying Bibles INTO the service seemed odd. Why bring a Bible, when they provided them in the pews? And a BAND!? What is up with that, and the hand waving, the emotionalism, I was NOT comfortable with any of that, the service was exhuberant, lively, people were INVOLVED.

Wow. I had never seen such a thing. I wanted to come back the next week, my wife didn't. "THOSE PEOPLE" made her uncomfortable, the service was too much for her. BUT she knew that I was devestated, ,and the quest for God would benefit her too, I was looking, needing, and she, being the loving woman she is, allowed for us to go back the next week.

This church has about 1/2 hour of contemporary Christian music, and a choir of 50 people...next week, on the second song, OPEN THE EYES OF MY HEART LORD, I broke..started sobbing, I was totally embarrassed. Convicted of my sins. I could NOT stop crying. This is NOT ME, I'm NOT that sort of man. Because I was in an environment of prayer, conviction, and the Holy Spirit, IT finally happened.

What I've come to learn and see, is that for ME, in MY circumstances, the intellectualising of faith was the stumbling block, and the Catholic baggage, of continual sin, ritual, Mass, confession, statues, Rosary, etc was the thing that kept me from accepting and understanding that FAITH is NOT doing things, jumping up and down, sign of the cross, candles, priests, Popes, rules, rules, and MORE rules.

Faith is in your heart. Simple is for me. Reading the Bible for myself, not having some bureacracy telling me that I HAD to do what the Bible said wasn't necessary, getting a PERSONAL, one on one, relationship, direct to God, ,without the middlemen.

My family was upset. Naturally. They thought I was a nut, had joined a cult [Assembly of God] and they were hoping that I would "see the light" and come back to the one true faith, as they thought of Catholic faith.

I never will. I clearly see, for ME now, that I need the entire faith of the Bible, and the oddities of Pentacostalism are not so odd now. Raising hands in prayer, emotional services, singing from the heart, talking in tounges, the entire Pentacostal experience has added so immensely to my soul, my spirit, my walk with God.

I found Jesus, when I tossed out that mismash of accumulated mediavial baggage of Catholicism, the barriers to a direct walk, and without the priest, Pope, and ritual, came to "get" what I always sought.

Now are there good Catholics out there, ,that have "it" YES, absolutely, I have many friends who are good Christians, I engage them almost daily on religous matters, watch EWTN nightly, love some of the men there who teach. There is MUCH to admire in the RCC, much to learn. BUT for me, I can't do THAT again, that kept me out of communion with God. As I continue to study and learn, I have a newer and deeper understanding of the Reformation, what it was, why they did it, and why Protestants are different.

Don't be sucked back in. Take a good look, jump in, the water really is deep here, and the swim with God is a nice one.

[OpenMinded-Protestant]

Hi, from my experiences... (my fiance "converted" from catholicism) as far as the religion differences i think that you'll find theres just a few less rules... I think your biggest transitions will be with your Family (that is if they too are Catholic) whenever a family member becomes a Protestant, "aka Protester of Catholicism" the family ussually takes this as a huge slap in the face, and an embarrasment.. just be ready for the backlash!! hope this helps!

[Fiat]

Relax bruce, metanoia was simply extending an invitation, he/she may feel restricted by the catholic faith because he/she may not fully understand it. I have come to know loads more about the Catholic faith from members on this board, does that mean I'm going to leave the Lutheran church I go to? nope, it doesn't change my decision, but I have been very happy to have the oppurtunity to talk with the Catholics on this board, it isn't about winning people, its about informing people, and met didn't do anything wrong by inviting this member to visit the OBOB boards. :)
Exactly, well said Jill and God bless you.

[JillLars]

Thanks Fiat :)

[BBAS 64]

Hi, from my experiences... (my fiance "converted" from catholicism) as far as the religion differences i think that you'll find theres just a few less rules... I think your biggest transitions will be with your Family (that is if they too are Catholic) whenever a family member becomes a Protestant, "aka Protester of Catholicism" the family ussually takes this as a huge slap in the face, and an embarrasment.. just be ready for the backlash!! hope this helps!
OMP

Good Point I got some of that early in my walk with the Lord. That can be the worst part, after a while they will start to ask good useful questions at least in my case. Being from the N.E of USA I am seeing more and more questions as it relates to the Faith and God's nature.


For His Glory Alone! :clap:

BBAS

[Fiat]

Thanks Fiat :)
:)

[Bruce S]

One other thing, that popped into my mind after writing my testimony.

I noticed that so many of the folks at my church seemed to be Ex-Catholics. I asked my pastor, "you know most of the members here [1,000+], there seem to be many, like me, that used to be Catholic. How many do you think there are like me?" He answered...and I almost fell down "Bruce, I think about 60% of our membership, are like you, from that background."

Man, that confirmed it for me, I was not alone, many, like me, found God only by leaving the RCC.

[ukok]

One other thing, that popped into my mind after writing my testimony.

I noticed that so many of the folks at my church seemed to be Ex-Catholics.



Humour me Bruce, i can't imagine how you would possibly have known that the majority of a congregation numbering more than 1000 in total, were 'formerly' Catholic ? Did they perhaps have some secret handshake, wear a sticky label "Whooppee...I'm a convert from Catholicism! :clap: " ? How exactly did you know this before you even mentioned it to your pastor?

How many do you think there are like me?" He answered...and I almost fell down "Bruce, I think about 60% of our membership, are like you, from that background."
Wow, what a win for your pastor...:sigh:

Man, that confirmed it for me, I was not alone, many, like me, found God only by leaving the RCC.
How exactly do you know that many of them were a. like you. b. only found God after leaving the RCC ?

I would have thought that if a person had not already 'found God' they would hardly be inclined to join yet another Church. Surely a percentage of those people already 'knew' God, or had a serious desire to know God more deeply, but failed to endeavour to do so while in the RCC?

And just so you know, i think that I am allowed to formulate and post an opinion here as i haven't converted to Catholicism, yet.:) so i'm looking at this as i see it, and i can't see how you presume to know so much about so many people, unless of course you have had very indepth conversations with the entirity of your church congregation ?

[ABDIarise]

I was never a hard-practicing Catholic, but I have gone through all the sacraments up to and including Confirmation. I go to a Catholic college and still am not a practicing Catholic. Up until recently I doubted a lot of things that I have faith in now and this brings me to a question in my faith. After reading a lot of stuff I've found that with a Protestant congregation I feel like I might be able to get closer to God. I don't feel the need to go through priests in order to form a relationship with Jesus but that's how I feel being a Catholic.

What does converting from Catholic to Protestant entail? Does it require anything other than converting in my own mind? I understand that I'm a Christian either way and the basic faith is the same. I just feel restricted as a Catholic whereas I might be able to work on my relationship with Jesus a lot more as a Protestant.

Thanks for your help guys.

It really isn't about being a catholic or a protestant, it is about being a Christian where you are free in Christ Jesus and not under such bondages. There is a perfect law of liberty that exist in Christ that surpases all the man made religions and such. There is freedom in Christ, but not to make it a stumbling block to other brothers. Jesus is your high priest and you can come to the thrown boldy now through Jesus. No one can get in between that unless you let them.

Blessing to you on your journey and may the God of peace sanctify you wholly :)

[Plan 9]

Humour me Bruce, i can't imagine how you would possibly have known that the majority of a congregation numbering more than 1000 in total, were 'formerly' Catholic ? Did they perhaps have some secret handshake, wear a sticky label "Whooppee...I'm a convert from Catholicism! :clap: " ? How exactly did you know this before you even mentioned it to your pastor?


Wow, what a win for your pastor...:sigh:


How exactly do you know that many of them were a. like you. b. only found God after leaving the RCC ?

I would have thought that if a person had not already 'found God' they would hardly be inclined to join yet another Church. Surely a percentage of those people already 'knew' God, or had a serious desire to know God more deeply, but failed to endeavour to do so while in the RCC?

And just so you know, i think that I am allowed to formulate and post an opinion here as i haven't converted to Catholicism, yet.:) so i'm looking at this as i see it, and i can't see how you presume to know so much about so many people, unless of course you have had very indepth conversations with the entirity of your church congregation ?

When I read some threads in the PRE forum, I feel an immediate urge to convert to Catholicism. Why do you think that is, ukoc? ;)

[Lanakila]

Working on that Plan 9. I mentioned earlier today P/R/E people are about a whole lot more than being not Catholic. I know I am. I rarely even talk about Catholicism anywhere but here. Definetly not at church.

[Plan 9]

Working on that Plan 9. I mentioned earlier today P/R/E people are about a whole lot more than being not Catholic. I know I am. I rarely even talk about Catholicism anywhere but here. Definetly not at church.
It rarely comes up in my life, either. I see Catholics as brothers and sisters in the faith with some doctrinal differences, and that's all. :confused:
When I come here I feel like I'm trapped in some nightmare episode of Family Feud.

[Lotar]

I was never a hard-practicing Catholic, but I have gone through all the sacraments up to and including Confirmation. I go to a Catholic college and still am not a practicing Catholic. Up until recently I doubted a lot of things that I have faith in now and this brings me to a question in my faith. After reading a lot of stuff I've found that with a Protestant congregation I feel like I might be able to get closer to God. I don't feel the need to go through priests in order to form a relationship with Jesus but that's how I feel being a Catholic.

What does converting from Catholic to Protestant entail? Does it require anything other than converting in my own mind? I understand that I'm a Christian either way and the basic faith is the same. I just feel restricted as a Catholic whereas I might be able to work on my relationship with Jesus a lot more as a Protestant.

Thanks for your help guys.
:wave: Welcome to the forums :wave:

Converting doesn't usually entail much. Which congregation are you considering? Most will just have you go through a basics class, where you will learn about what the church believes, but that's pretty much it. I pray you find a deeper relationship at this new church. :)



A word to our Catholic brethren. Please remember the rules, and how we don't bother people with similair situations on the OBOB :prayer:

[BBAS 64]

Bruce

Thank you for sharing your life with us here. I truly got a blessing from you. I was saved in a Pentacostal church a long time ago it was an amazing transformation of my life also.

May God bless you and yours!

BBAS :)

[Plan 9]

A word to our Catholic brethren. Please remember the rules, and how we don't bother people with similair situations on the OBOB :prayer:

"A word to our Catholic Brethren: this is OUR clubhouse and you can't play with us because you have cooties."

You guys do too bother them in theirs.
Most of you make me ashamed to post here and I have noticed how few PREs do.

[Lotar]

"A word to our Catholic Brethren: this is OUR clubhouse and you can't play with us because you have cooties."

You guys do too bother them in theirs.
Most of you make me ashamed to post here and I have noticed how few PREs do.
Take a chill pill. I swear, sometimes I don't know about you. :(

I was asking them to respect the rules, because the last couple of threads of this sort turned into flaming and got closed. Someone is asking for advise on becoming Protestant, Metanoia refered him to the OBOB, which is fine. If he wants to go get the Catholic perspective he can go there. Bruce over reacted in the beginning, but then he got flamed for giving his story. Go to the OBOB and look at the Protestant converting to Catholisism threads, and find any posts from us.

I'm sure there are people who go over there and give them a hard time, I know it's not one sided. I've PMed people I've seen doing this in the past. I like Catholics posting here, and I like posting over there. I just don't like it when we have 3 IDDs.

So far there hasn't been any warring, which is what I wanted to prevent, I didn't accuse anyone.

[tigersnare]

Ok simple question simple answer, no debate required right?


One option would be finding a non-denominational church, I find that to be the most neutral option for Catholics in my life. They come to the church I attend and most seem to like the freedom of worship, life application teachings, and overall freedom from repetitiveness.

You might not, but it's one option.

[Bruce S]

Humour me Bruce, i can't imagine how you would possibly have known that the majority of a congregation numbering more than 1000 in total, were 'formerly' Catholic ? Did they perhaps have some secret handshake, wear a sticky label "Whooppee...I'm a convert from Catholicism! :clap: " ? How exactly did you know this before you even mentioned it to your pastor?

Duh, I asked how THEY got into this church, for me that is a standard opening question. Don't YOU ever socialize with others and ask these sorts of things..."How did YOU come to attend this church?" that sort of question.

I guess I talked with a few dozen in the first few months, after service, in prayer meetings, at events, ....

I'm not that shy a person, and I love to learn about how people got into this denomination....


How exactly do you know that many of them were a. like you. b. only found God after leaving the RCC ? I said I found God only after leaving the RCC. Asked others, they too were basically unchurched and estranged till they came to this church. Funny how much you find out when YOU open up and tell others about YOUR experience. A common bond being formed with the Ex Catholics sharing, upon finding each other. [Not hard here, as I said, over 60% - per the pastor - are Ex's.]

I would have thought that if a person had not already 'found God' they would hardly be inclined to join yet another Church. Surely a percentage of those people already 'knew' God, or had a serious desire to know God more deeply, but failed to endeavour to do so while in the RCC?? Just telling it like it was/is for me. Sorry that doesn't fit your idea of the way things should go.

And just so you know, i think that I am allowed to formulate and post an opinion here as i haven't converted to Catholicism, yet.:) so i'm looking at this as i see it, and i can't see how you presume to know so much about so many people, unless of course you have had very indepth conversations with the entirity of your church congregation ?The "entirety" no. But with about twenty to thirty men, over a few months, yes, frankly I did. I go to wednesday nights, saturday morning men's prayer breakfast [about 40 attend there off an on] a few picnics, and other events. So, yes, I did have the opportunity of deeper fellowship than most might have found possible, I MADE THE TIME, and TOOK THE OPPORTUNITY, to reach out, in my time of need and hurt, to as many men and also to a few women also, as I possibly could.

[Bruce S]

It rarely comes up in my life, either. I see Catholics as brothers and sisters in the faith with some doctrinal differences, and that's all. :confused:
When I come here I feel like I'm trapped in some nightmare episode of Family Feud.
Grin. Then don't worry about it Plan 9.

It is like a Jew leaving to become a Messianic. They keep the ties to the Jewish "community" if not the faith. I'm like that. Don't forget, my family is still ALL Catholic [except a brother in law, who like me, left, with equal problems from his Italian Catholic family].

This thread IS about the CONVERSION process, check out the OP and you will see the discussion is on target within the parameters of that OP.

[Plan 9]

Grin. Then don't worry about it Plan 9.

It is like a Jew leaving to become a Messianic. They keep the ties to the Jewish "community" if not the faith. I'm like that. Don't forget, my family is still ALL Catholic [except a brother in law, who like me, left, with equal problems from his Italian Catholic family].

This thread IS about the CONVERSION process, check out the OP and you will see the discussion is on target within the parameters of that OP.


I completely agree and a mod was here earlier and didn't feel that our two Catholic posters were out of line with their posts, either.

[Plan 9]

Take a chill pill. I swear, sometimes I don't know about you. :(

Funny, our feelings appear to be entirely mutual.

[Lanakila]

Awe guys can you feel the love, man?

[Bruce S]

Awe guys can you feel the love, man?
More like walking on eggshells...grin.

Now if others will share conversion experiences [into Protestantism] we can find out how a seeker Catholic, could begin the process, find out what being a Protestant is, and find the deeper meaning and simple understanding of Christianity that Protestanism is for many of us.

For many, it is the LACK OF, things that makes faith easier. Less of this, more of that.

More Bible, more prayer, more independent study. Less ritual, less beauracry, less overhead, less extraneous matters, than the RCC way of finding God.

For some, like me, it works and for others, like my RCC friends, it wouldn't.

It depends on the makeup of the person, not for those raised in any one denomination, but for those who want out of one lifestyle of faith, and potentially want to go into another.

Like I said, it is NOT EASY to do this, either way.

[ukok]

Duh, I asked how THEY got into this church, for me that is a standard opening question. Don't YOU ever socialize with others and ask these sorts of things..."How did YOU come to attend this church?" that sort of question.

I guess I talked with a few dozen in the first few months, after service, in prayer meetings, at events, ....

I'm not that shy a person, and I love to learn about how people got into this denomination....


I said I found God only after leaving the RCC. Asked others, they too were basically unchurched and estranged till they came to this church. Funny how much you find out when YOU open up and tell others about YOUR experience. A common bond being formed with the Ex Catholics sharing, upon finding each other. [Not hard here, as I said, over 60% - per the pastor - are Ex's.]

? Just telling it like it was/is for me. Sorry that doesn't fit your idea of the way things should go.

The "entirety" no. But with about twenty to thirty men, over a few months, yes, frankly I did. I go to wednesday nights, saturday morning men's prayer breakfast [about 40 attend there off an on] a few picnics, and other events. So, yes, I did have the opportunity of deeper fellowship than most might have found possible, I MADE THE TIME, and TOOK THE OPPORTUNITY, to reach out, in my time of need and hurt, to as many men and also to a few women also, as I possibly could.
I would have liked to respond to your post Bruce, but anyone who wishes to address me with the opener of 'DUH', hardly warrants any response that i might give.

Perhaps when i have cooled off a little i shall respond, hopefully, with more kindness than you have shown.:)

[finchuck]

The RCC faith was not the answer, I looked at it again, but the Legalisms, the emphasis on ritual, the dullness, the works issues, fear and scaring that I saw as an emphasis there, the Mary worship, this all was something that I didn't want. It turned me off totally, I knew, deep in my heart, that if I were to try this again, I would fail. I couldn't fail again, I was NOT going to get another shot at this again, I needed to get God, not think about getting God.

That's how I feel at times. I prefer to consider myself a Christian trying to get myself right with God. Everyday I try to act more like Jesus. I try to be a good person, I try to do the right thing, and for the most part, I am succeeding.

However, at times, mostly in the past as I've taken a new path recently, I've sinned. My question is this: Can a Catholic be forgiven of a sin if he/she doesn't go to confession? My conscious sometimes gets the best of me and I dont want to HAVE to go to confession and be "punished" everytime I commit a sin. I'd rather just turn around and try to live the life that God wants me to live without the priest's consent.

As you may be able to tell, this is all new to me. I'm only 20 and I never really looked into my religion much at all. It wasn't until recently that something occurred in my life that I had to overcome and I turned to God for help. I researched the Christian faith and as I read its values, I thought to myself "I can do this." But then when I look at the Catholic values, I sometimes think "I can't do this."

I am a good person, I know that. But I make mistakes. All I want is to get right with God and live the way he'd want me to live without all the hassles of rituals, customs, traditions, etc. getting in the way. Thanks for your help, and a special thanks to Bruce, your story makes me realize how helpful faith in God can be in getting through difficult times. My hat goes off to you.

[Bruce S]

I would have liked to respond to your post Bruce, but anyone who wishes to address me with the opener of 'DUH', hardly warrants any response that i might give.

Perhaps when i have cooled off a little i shall respond, hopefully, with more kindness than you have shown.:)
I guess you don't watch the Simpson's much. For fans of Homer, "Duh" is sort of like the equivalent of "Errr" or "Saywhat" to others.

Long live Ned Flanders!

[nyj]

I guess you don't watch the Simpson's much. For fans of Homer, "Duh" is sort of like the equivalent of "Errr" or "Saywhat" to others.

Long live Ned Flanders!Umm, Homer says "Doh!" (always as an expletive)... I don't think I've ever heard him say "Duh".

[Miss Shelby]

I guess you don't watch the Simpson's much. For fans of Homer, "Duh" is sort of like the equivalent of "Errr" or "Saywhat" to others.

Long live Ned Flanders!Um, Bruce. That's 'Doh'. I guess you don't watch the Simpson's much. :D

[Bruce S]

That's how I feel at times. I prefer to consider myself a Christian trying to get myself right with God. Everyday I try to act more like Jesus. I try to be a good person, I try to do the right thing, and for the most part, I am succeeding.
See. The "guilt" is there, I can feel it between the lines. EXACTLY what I experienced, always feeling "guilty" like I wasn't good enough for God to want to have anything to do with me.

However, at times, mostly in the past as I've taken a new path recently, I've sinned. My question is this: Can a Catholic be forgiven of a sin if he/she doesn't go to confession? My conscious sometimes gets the best of me and I dont want to HAVE to go to confession and be "punished" everytime I commit a sin. I'd rather just turn around and try to live the life that God wants me to live without the priest's consent.
More "guilt"....huh? They do instill the guilt thing, I know. Now, for some good news. Confession [to a priest] is a thing that Catholics invented sometime in the past. Sure, we are commanded to share our sins with EACH OTHER, that is biblical, but to a MAN, yes a mere MAN, who is the designated sin-teller-to is not something you will have to worry about as a Protestant [most denominations]. You confess your sins TO GOD, privately, and tell them to a trusted friend, if YOU WANT TO. Your sins are fogiven IN ADVANCE by the way, after you give over your live to God. Now, you are not given carte blanche to go on sinning, you ARE supposed to be a Christian now, but the Holy Spirit will enter into your life, the HS will "convict you of your sins" and you will begin the process of discernment, and start hating the sin, and thus not wanting to continue sinning. A priest has NOTHING whatsoever to do with this process as a Protestant [most denominations.]

As you may be able to tell, this is all new to me. I'm only 20 and I never really looked into my religion much at all. It wasn't until recently that something occurred in my life that I had to overcome and I turned to God for help. I researched the Christian faith and as I read its values, I thought to myself "I can do this." But then when I look at the Catholic values, I sometimes think "I can't do this."
Gotcha dude, makes sense to me too. Just don't let the GUILT override you, don't let the GUILT keep you away. Don't let the guilt and internal baggage of thinking the RCC way is the only way, or even the preferred way. For some it is, for others, and untold millions, it is not.

I am a good person, I know that. But I make mistakes. All I want is to get right with God and live the way he'd want me to live without all the hassles of rituals, customs, traditions, etc. getting in the way. Thanks for your help, and a special thanks to Bruce, your story makes me realize how helpful faith in God can be in getting through difficult times. My hat goes off to you.
Not me. The Holy Spirit, and the Worship Music. It was the HS, that moved me, something RCC's give lip service too, but don't elevate to the level they accord the Mary role, for them, the HS is something they TALK ABOUT, not something that is EQUAL to the role of Jesus and God the Father.

This is a TRIUNE faith, not a QUADRUNE faith. This being a Pentacostal for me.

[ej]

Bruce... it's 'Doh!'

[finchuck]

Bruce, I really appreciate your insight. You are right, the guilt is there. I feel like a guilty Catholic and when I think about it, I don't feel like a guilty Christian. Something about that just doesn't sit right with me and tells me that I'm in the wrong place.

[Plan 9]

See. The "guilt" is there, I can feel it between the lines. EXACTLY what I experienced, always feeling "guilty" like I wasn't good enough for God to want to have anything to do with me.

Yet, I often still feel that same guilt. It has nothing to do with my church upbringing.

[Benedicta00]

Bruce, I really appreciate your insight. You are right, the guilt is there. I feel like a guilty Catholic and when I think about it, I don't feel like a guilty Christian. Something about that just doesn't sit right with me and tells me that I'm in the wrong place.

Hi Chuck,

I do not want to get entangled into the web of a thread but I would like to ask you to consider that feelings are not always the best guide in telling us what is right or wrong.

[Lotar]

Bruce, it's supposed to be "Doh!"

I just wanted to chime in too :D

[Plan 9]

"Duh" is sort of like the equivalent of "Errr" or "Saywhat" to others.

"Duh" means "stupid", I'm afraid.

[Lanakila]

Many of us have never, ever watched the Simpsons. I was saying duh long before the Simpsons came on tv, and it was rude then, and its rude now. I remember saying duh to my mother when she told me something, and getting in lots of trouble for being rude.

[Lanakila]

More like, of course you idiot. In the language of the times when I was using it Planny.

[ej]

Bruce, you're making a fool of yourself.

If you want to discuss elements of different Christian doctrines, you should choose something which: (a) is true (b) you know something about and (c) is actually a discussion point and not a bizarre attack.

I attend a Catholic Church, yet I am not in full agreement with Catholic doctrine - partly because I believe it puts man before God. However, I would infinitely prefer the fellowship of a person who is open-minded and exudes love and Godliness, than a person who is critical, aggressive and inappropriate as you are here. I also attend a Protestant Church... I don't agree with 100% of their doctrine either, but they are wonderful Christian people, as are my Catholic friends and fellow parishioners.

There are plenty open-minded and generous members here who are willing to take part in humane discussion... without wanting to criticise, I must admit that it has crossed my mind that you may have lost perspective of the reason you are here, and the reason you seek Christian fellowship at all.

Peace be with you :)

[Terri]

Well, I would just like to remind all of you that are feeling guilty what God says on the subject:

RO 8:1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death.

God doesn't condemn you so STOP doing it to yourselves!! ;)

Finchuck I would encourage you to read Galatians and Romans over and over as many times as you can to help you realize just how FREE in Christ you are.

Finchuch this is my prayer for you:

EPH 3:14 For this reason I kneel before the Father, 15 from whom his whole family in heaven and on earth derives its name. 16 I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being, 17 so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, 18 may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, 19 and to know this love that surpasses knowledge--that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God.

[finchuck]

I'm still unclear about the confessional and its importance. Am I forgiven of my sins as a Catholic if I don't go to Confession?

This is the biggest obstacle for me with the Catholic Church. I admit that I'm not a practicing Christian, but I want to be as good of a Christian as I can be given the circumstances of my life. I want to be able to have a relationship with God, even if I don't go to Church at this time in my life or confess my sins to a priest.

I seek forgiveness, guidance, faith and a relationship with God. My faith is very "raw" at this point. Like I said above, up until about a month ago, I never even considered religion to be a part of my life at all. This really is all new to me.

[ej]

I'm still unclear about the confessional and its importance. Am I forgiven of my sins as a Catholic if I don't go to Confession?


You're going to get some different answers here, finchuck :confused:

Personally, I know that Catholicism is the closest I will get to Christ's Church. But I freely admit that it is imperfect, and irreparably so through history. The doctrine of confession is one which I find difficult to accept and understand.

In a word.. yes. God DOES forgive your sins without going to confession. Confession is an earthly representation of sin repentance, IMHO. Similarly, water baptism is an earthly representation of baptism of the Holy Spirit.

[Metanoia02]

I'm still unclear about the confessional and its importance. Am I forgiven of my sins as a Catholic if I don't go to Confession?

This is the biggest obstacle for me with the Catholic Church. I admit that I'm not a practicing Christian, but I want to be as good of a Christian as I can be given the circumstances of my life. I want to be able to have a relationship with God, even if I don't go to Church at this time in my life or confess my sins to a priest.

I seek forgiveness, guidance, faith and a relationship with God.
finchuck,

As I have said before, PLEASE ask these questions in the One Bread One Body Forum. Due to the restriction of this forum we are no able to answer you directly. From what you have written, I think we can help you better understand confession as well as any other question you might have about the Catholic Church.

[Plan 9]

More like, of course you idiot. In the language of the times when I was using it Planny.
Yes, you have defined it exactly right, Lanakila. :)

[Benedicta00]

I'm still unclear about the confessional and its importance. Am I forgiven of my sins as a Catholic if I don't go to Confession?

This is the biggest obstacle for me with the Catholic Church. I admit that I'm not a practicing Christian, but I want to be as good of a Christian as I can be given the circumstances of my life. I want to be able to have a relationship with God, even if I don't go to Church at this time in my life or confess my sins to a priest.

I seek forgiveness, guidance, faith and a relationship with God.

Chuck,

Peace to you.

This is one of the biggest things we all deal with as Catholics, it is common so will you please post to us in OBOB before you make any finale choices because our feelings and emotions run high and low and we should not make choices based on what we feel but what we know.

Please come talk to us over there. There are many who can help or PM a Catholic to discuss. You are under no pressure or obligation to be Catholic if you post there but at least know fully what you are leaving behind. There is more that just confession you will be giving up.

[finchuck]

finchuck,

As I have said before, PLEASE ask these questions in the One Bread One Body Forum. Due to the restriction of this forum we are no able to answer you directly. From what you have written, I think we can help you better understand confession as well as any other question you might have about the Catholic Church.
K I'll do that. Thanks :)

[finchuck]

Here's the thread over there: http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=1201233#post1201233

[Benedicta00]

Finchuck,

I noticed your new and you have no blesssings so here is 5000, go and buy yourself a fancy avatar or something. :)

[Lotar]

I'm still unclear about the confessional and its importance. Am I forgiven of my sins as a Catholic if I don't go to Confession?

This is the biggest obstacle for me with the Catholic Church. I admit that I'm not a practicing Christian, but I want to be as good of a Christian as I can be given the circumstances of my life. I want to be able to have a relationship with God, even if I don't go to Church at this time in my life or confess my sins to a priest.

I seek forgiveness, guidance, faith and a relationship with God.
Now it's sounding like you want to convert to Protestantism because you don't want to go to church or be a practicing christian. I have to tell you that it doesn't work that way. The only true Christian is a practicing Christian. Protestantism isn't going to be any more accepting of that. You will get what you seek if you follow Him. You can't expect to convert to Protestantism, get "saved", and then go on with life as normal.

I don't know the exact dynamics of Catholic confession, you should probably go to thier forum to ask about that. But as far as I know, you need to confess to a priest, and if you die without confessing a mortal sin you go to hell, but everything else just racks you up time on purgatory.

Protestants don't have mortal and venial (sp?) sins, we believe that any are enough to **** you, but we also believe that you only need to confess directly to God, unless it is something habitual, and that His grace is sufficient in the "inbetween" times.

[finchuck]

What are these blessings? I've never been to a site like this... thanks tho!

[finchuck]

Now it's sounding like you want to convert to Protestantism because you don't want to go to church or be a practicing christian. I have to tell you that it doesn't work that way. The only true Christian is a practicing Christian. Protestantism isn't going to be any more accepting of that. You will get what you seek if you follow Him. You can't expect to convert to Protestantism, get "saved", and then go on with life as normal.

Yeah I know how it sounds. Right now I'm living on campus at a Catholic University, so if I want to head to church it would have to be that one. My weekends are consumed by family, friends, and being a mentor for a child w/special needs.

I know it's no excuse, but I'm still trying to find a niche.

[Plan 9]

Now it's sounding like you want to convert to Protestantism because you don't want to go to church or be a practicing christian. I have to tell you that it doesn't work that way. The only true Christian is a practicing Christian. Protestantism isn't going to be any more accepting of that. You will get what you seek if you follow Him. You can't expect to convert to Protestantism, get "saved", and then go on with life as normal.


Protestants don't have mortal and venial (sp?) sins, we believe that any are enough to **** you, but we also believe that you only need to confess directly to God, unless it is something habitual, and that His grace is sufficient in the "inbetween" times.
I can hardly wait for the "Eternal Security of the Believer" Christians to arrive! :)

[Lotar]

Yeah I know how it sounds. Right now I'm living on campus at a Catholic University, so if I want to head to church it would have to be that one. My weekends are consumed by family, friends, and being a mentor for a child w/special needs.

I know it's no excuse, but I'm still trying to find a niche.
Many churches have sunday night and wednesday night services, you should try checking it out. I'm sure there are churches nearby. Get your family and/or friends to go with you. When you become a Christian, you must put Christ first in your life, and sometimes that means spending less time with friends.

[finchuck]

So now I have something else to feel guilty about :(

[Lotar]

I can hardly wait for the "Eternal Security of the Believer" Christians to arrive! :)
I just won't argue with them ;)

[Lotar]

So now I have something else to feel guilty about :(
Nobody said that Christ's way is the easy way, infact He said the opposite. I don't want to discourage you, I am glad that you are seeking, but I need to inform you that Protestantism isn't really any "easier" than Catholisism.

[finchuck]

So then what is somebody that believes in God, has received the sacraments up until Confirmation, tries to act the way God would want him to, but doesn't go to church?

Am I not considered a Catholic anymore?

This is confusing. I understand that Christ should be the #1 priority in somebody's life, but circumstances permitting, that can't be the case for everybody. Where does that leave them? On the outskirts waiting until they CAN put Christ in front?

[Bruce S]

Finchuck,

I noticed your new and you have no blesssings so here is 5000, go and buy yourself a fancy avatar or something. :)
Hey! Not fair...FOUL ball!

Bribing a defecting Catholic with Blessings isn't Kosher. Pay that man with the handouts no mind here ... they are DESPERATE now...grin.

:cry: :scratch:

[Plan 9]

You know, I love being a Christian. Why does it seem as though I should put on my ball and chain now and drag it around behind me, just like I did before I was one?

[ej]

Check your blessings Bruce :)

[Matrona]

That's how I feel at times. I prefer to consider myself a Christian trying to get myself right with God. Everyday I try to act more like Jesus. I try to be a good person, I try to do the right thing, and for the most part, I am succeeding.

Howdy Finchuck,

I hope nobody jumps on me for putting my two euros in here, since I'm neither Protestant nor Catholic. And I was a Protestant who thought about becoming Catholic, but I became Orthodox instead, so you could kind of say I've been all over the place. :)


However, at times, mostly in the past as I've taken a new path recently, I've sinned. My question is this: Can a Catholic be forgiven of a sin if he/she doesn't go to confession? My conscious sometimes gets the best of me and I dont want to HAVE to go to confession and be "punished" everytime I commit a sin. I'd rather just turn around and try to live the life that God wants me to live without the priest's consent.

Here's the thing about the sacrament of penance. The reason you do it in front of a priest is so that he can help you overcome your sin. I am probably not qualified to answer this to your satisfaction (we do confession differently in Orthodoxy). Have you ever sworn a friend to secrecy before telling them a secret about yourself? (Maybe it's just us girls who do that, I don't know! ;) ) What confession does is it gives you someone to talk to about your sin, who can give you advice, and help you get the sin off your chest, without having people on earth hold it against you.

I come from a Protestant background and to a degree I can sympathize with your anxiety regarding confession. All I can say is that it is not nearly as bad as you think, even when what you have to confess is really awful. I did some WILD stuff in my teen years... and I have YET to shock anyone when making a confession. And another thing... when I'm walking up there to make confession (the longest walk in the world I tell ya), and all that anxiety is bearing down on me, I think, "I hate confession!" But when I'm walking away afterwards, I think, "I love confession!"

As you may be able to tell, this is all new to me. I'm only 20 and I never really looked into my religion much at all. It wasn't until recently that something occurred in my life that I had to overcome and I turned to God for help. I researched the Christian faith and as I read its values, I thought to myself "I can do this." But then when I look at the Catholic values, I sometimes think "I can't do this."
Hey, I'm 20 too! :cool: I was a "spiritual seeker" until this year, which is when I found where I belong.

Conversion, even from one Christian denomination to another, is a very serious thing and shouldn't be undertaken lightly. Even if your online discussions leave you utterly convinced that Protestantism rules, I would still suggest having at least one conversation with a Catholic priest. I can't say how that might affect your religious journey, but if you convert, at least you'll know for a fact you didn't do it without giving all sides a chance.

I am a good person, I know that. But I make mistakes. All I want is to get right with God and live the way he'd want me to live without all the hassles of rituals, customs, traditions, etc. getting in the way.
The important thing to know is that, as legalistic and strange as some Christian customs might seem, they're meant to help you experience God's grace. You might want to read about the sacraments and the symbolism involved, to find out why the Catholic Church might do such things that appear on the surface to be rather strange. You've got nothing to lose by getting more information, right?

At any rate I wish you godspeed on your journey and that whatever decision you end up making, that it will be the right one for you.

[Bruce S]

I don't know the exact dynamics of Catholic confession, you should probably go to thier forum to ask about that. But as far as I know, you need to confess to a priest, and if you die without confessing a mortal sin you go to hell, but everything else just racks you up time on purgatory.

Right. One of the REAL benefits to OUR WAY, is the fast lane to heaven. Die, and if you are one of us, and have turned your life over to Jesus, and confessed, you are IN ... NOW, this second.

The other side takes the slow path. They get to "fry" for a tad before the detrius of the little stuff is burned off, this one is one of OUR side's best selling tools. Grin.

Or, you could still "obtain" an INDULGENCE, yes, they still have those, now they don't sell them like they USED TO, but they ARE still officially granted by the Pope. That burns off a centrury of suffering or two.

Silly notion that Purgatory thing [to MY way of understanding things.] I know the RCC's have chapter and verse that they still twist into justifying this.

BUT, being the RCC with the memory that goes WAY BACK, I can still recall their insistance on LIMBO.

Now, if you think Purgatory is odd, Limbo is stranger. It is the place where unbaptised Babies went to languish, outside of heaven, FOREVER. If you didn't have a dunk in water, and the right words, you stayed outside of God's grace forever.

Of course, the "INFALLIBLE" doctrines of today, have now overulled the "INFALLABLE" doctrines of yesterday, and that isn't doctrine anymore.

Ah...the rules change, you went to HELL for eating meat, no longer do, you went to Limbo and no longer do. I had a discussion here on this, the RCC's claimed that eating meat didn't send you to hell, but we CERTAINLY WERE TAUGHT THAT IT DID, clearly, loudly, and with fear and trembling did believe it was so.

Funny how MEN decide how you go to where and for what....

Fuming here, the memories of the stuff that turned me off coming back again. Sorry.

[finchuck]

I think I am going to try and go to Confession for the last 10 years of my life and see how I feel after that. I just feel sorta funny and find it kind of arbitrary that God might reject me if I don't tell my sins to a priest.

I know that God already knows that I'm sorry for anythng and everything that I've done.

[Lotar]

So then what is somebody that believes in God, has received the sacraments up until Confirmation, tries to act the way God would want him to, but doesn't go to church?
I wrote this earlier, it's not quite finished yet, but is mostly agreed upon. Catholics and the Church of Christ have a slightly different take on it (mostly on the works portion), but for the most part agree.



On Salvation



Works play no part in salvation. Works come about as a result of salvation. If one does not have works, it is because they do not have salvation, not the other way around. To say that works are required for salvation, says that we are saved at least partly because of our own merit, which we know not to be true.

Romans 3:10
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

Works are a result of salvation, but that does not mean that works cannot come for some other reason as well. All dogs are mammals, not all mammals are dogs. All who are saved have works, not all who have works are saved. If works are absent, it is because salvation is absent. Not salvation is absent because works are absent.

Galatians 2:16
nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.


James 2:26
For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

How do I know I am saved, and when am I saved?

Giving your life to Christ. Repenting and accepting His forgiveness for our sins, seeking and following His will through prayer and scripture, by having faith and the works to demonstrate it. It is stated this way because of the common trend in the Church today is, "I'm a Christian because my Mom/Dad were", have "because I was baptized". It's teaching that the faith must be yours, not your parents; it's not genetic.

No, not everyone will be saved who thinks that they are. Saying some prayer your pastor made up, getting baptized, being a basically good person, saying you believe in Jesus, or being "born a Christian" are common reasons people give for why they are saved. Unfortunately none of these things are going to get you to heaven.

How do I know others are saved?

You will know them by their fruit. Though we can never truly know their hearts.

Is it available only to Evangelical Fundamentalists, or can Mainline Protestants, Anglicans, Catholics and Orthodox partake of this relationship?

All Christians have it.

What was that like? And were you saved the moment before that? In other words, how did you know?

Actually, I don't know when the exact moment was for me. Thoughts who can pinpoint when usually were not raised in the church, or left the church and came back. I can say that in tenth grade was when I first made a real effort to apply my faith.

How do I know I am saved? Because I believe that Christ died and rose again for my sins. I have repented and turned from my sins, and make an effort to seek His will.

Romans 10:10
for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

Religious feelings are no basis for faith, or a reason to believe that one is saved. If you merely follow your feelings, who knows where you'll end up? There are Muslims, Mormons, and Buddhists that get that feeling. Pray, and follow the word of God, don't rely on feelings.

The reason that Evangelical Christians focus on the personal side of the faith is that many people don't realize that it is an essential part of salvation. The downside is that some people seem to think we teach, pray this prayer and you go to heaven. Or you don't really need a church; you can be fine on your own. But it's just like how some people at other churches think you just need to show up on Sundays, or sometimes only on holidays. Salvation is through Grace alone, but faith without works is dead.

It's not just enough to believe, or be baptized.

Am I not considered a Catholic anymore?
I don't know, you'd have to ask them.


This is confusing. I understand that Christ should be the #1 priority in somebody's life, but circumstances permitting, that can't be the case for everybody. Where does that leave them? On the outskirts waiting until they CAN put Christ in front?

All it has to do with is what is most important to you. It is always possible to make time.

I know it's hard, but when you do go out on a limb and follow His will, He always provides for you and blesses you.

[Bruce S]

Check your blessings Bruce :)
Thanks. But I just gave them back to you. I got out, and want to stay out. Grin. I don't take "candy" from strangers, not even ones that seem like "nice guys."

I got my blessings the old fashioned way, gave up EWTN for Lent.

ROFLM..."X"O

:bow:

[Lotar]

Right. One of the REAL benefits to OUR WAY, is the fast lane to heaven. Die, and if you are one of us, and have turned your life over to Jesus, and confessed, you are IN ... NOW, this second.

The other side takes the slow path. They get to "fry" for a tad before the detrius of the little stuff is burned off, this one is one of OUR side's best selling tools. Grin.

Or, you could still "obtain" an INDULGENCE, yes, they still have those, now they don't sell them like they USED TO, but they ARE still officially granted by the Pope. That burns off a centrury of suffering or two.

Silly notion that Purgatory thing [to MY way of understanding things.] I know the RCC's have chapter and verse that they still twist into justifying this.

BUT, being the RCC with the memory that goes WAY BACK, I can still recall their insistance on LIMBO.

Now, if you think Purgatory is odd, Limbo is stranger. It is the place where unbaptised Babies went to languish, outside of heaven, FOREVER. If you didn't have a dunk in water, and the right words, you stayed outside of God's grace forever.

Of course, the "INFALLIBLE" doctrines of today, have now overulled the "INFALLABLE" doctrines of yesterday, and that isn't doctrine anymore.

Ah...the rules change, you went to HELL for eating meat, no longer do, you went to Limbo and no longer do. I had a discussion here on this, the RCC's claimed that eating meat didn't send you to hell, but we CERTAINLY WERE TAUGHT THAT IT DID, clearly, loudly, and with fear and trembling did believe it was so.

Funny how MEN decide how you go to where and for what....

Fuming here, the memories of the stuff that turned me off coming back again. Sorry.
Bruce, all this is going to do is cause problems. That is not at all what I was saying, it would do us all good if you deleted this post.

[ej]

Thanks. But I just gave them back to you. I got out, and want to stay out. Grin. I don't take "candy" from strangers, not even ones that seem like "nice guys."

I got my blessings the old fashioned way, gave up EWTN for Lent.

ROFLM..."X"O

:bow:
Well if we're gonna play it that way... I gave you 10,000.

[Godzman]

Both protestants and catholics are equally christians, some theology of both I agree and disagree with.

[Lotar]

I think I am going to try and go to Confession for the last 10 years of my life and see how I feel after that. I just feel sorta funny and find it kind of arbitrary that God might reject me if I don't tell my sins to a priest.

I know that God already knows that I'm sorry for anythng and everything that I've done.
I don't know what Catholics would say, but we would say that just going to confession isn't going to save you either. Also, how do you know when the last 10 years of your life will be? Christ could return, or you could die tomorrow.

The Christian life may not always be easy, but God definately does bless you for following it. Plus you won't have that guilt hanging over your head.

[finchuck]

I meant I haven't been to Confession in 10 years.

[Godzman]

I don't know what Catholics would say, but we would say that just going to confession isn't going to save you either. Also, how do you know when the last 10 years of your life will be? Christ could return, or you could die tomorrow.

The Christian life may not always be easy, but God definately does bless you for following it. Plus you won't have that guilt hanging over your head.
Amen :clap:

[Bruce S]

Well if we're gonna play it that way... I gave you 10,000.hahahaha

Hey, I'm gonna go BANKRUPT again, if I continue this game.

Hmmm. Wanna swap bibles? I want a RCC one, I wanted to look up something in Maccabbes, and darn, mine was missing that one. Honest.

I think I need to keep going to the Catholic Book store too, the Christian one that I normally go to is woefully lacking in the RCC stuff....grin.

OK OK, nuff of the tweaking....

[ej]

No really... I had 22,000+ you had 4,000+ and I gave you 10,000 :)

Heck, keep them in your bad grace, but don't hark on about it!

[Lotar]

I meant I haven't been to Confession in 10 years.
Okay. I guess I misunderstood you.

Anyways, as Protestants, we believe that you can confess directly to God. But one thing to remember, for both Protestants and Catholics, confession isn't about being sorry, but repenting. To repent means that you turn away from your sin, and make a real effort to not repeat.

[Lotar]

ummm Bruce, could you please delete post #68? I can see that taking this thread off course real quick.

[finchuck]

That's what I have been doing. I have turned around and am making an extreme effort to not repeat my sins.

That is seperate from my faith though, I'm just doing that for myself and the people around me. I want to be a better person.

[ej]

That's what I have been doing. I have turned around and am making an extreme effort to not repeat my sins.

That is seperate from my faith though, I'm just doing that for myself and the people around me. I want to be a better person.
Sounds as though you have a healthy starting point :)

[Bruce S]

Bruce, all this is going to do is cause problems. That is not at all what I was saying, it would do us all good if you deleted this post.Lothar buddy.

You don't have the SCARS that I do from the RCC upbringing. For you, this is mere friendships and fellowships.

I'm more like LUTHER, a man who was THERE, got out, and knew what they had done to him, he wanted nothing to do with fellowship after a little while. He wanted seperation.

If you haven't BEEN THERE, and mangled by that process [from the 50's and 60's] Latin this and that, and Nuns cruelly beating you [yes that too] you don't know what a man of my age, with the overhanging past and such had to deal with.

There ARE differences, that is what the Reformation was frankly, and that was messy indeed, and if the RCC's had their way, they would undo it all, gather up all the wayward heretics like me, and the rulebook would come back down hard again.

Charismatic Catholics without Pentacostalism, .... IMPOSSIBLE.

The longer I live, the more the RCC comes to look like Protestantism, in worship style, form, and such. Being from there, and now here, I'm acutely aware of these changes over the decades.

You, as a young puppy, are not.

[Lotar]

Lothar buddy.

You don't have the SCARS that I do from the RCC upbringing. For you, this is mere friendships and fellowships.

I'm more like LUTHER, a man who was THERE, got out, and knew what they had done to him, he wanted nothing to do with fellowship after a little while. He wanted seperation.

If you haven't BEEN THERE, and mangled by that process [from the 50's and 60's] Latin this and that, and Nuns cruelly beating you [yes that too] you don't know what a man of my age, with the overhanging past and such had to deal with.

There ARE differences, that is what the Reformation was frankly, and that was messy indeed, and if the RCC's had their way, they would undo it all, gather up all the wayward heretics like me, and the rulebook would come back down hard again.

The RCC hasn't changed because they wanted to, they changed because the Protestants made them change. Period. That was true then, and is true now.

Charismatic Catholics without Pentacostalism, .... IMPOSSIBLE.

The longer I live, the more the RCC comes to look like Protestantism, in worship style, form, and such. Being from there, and now here, I'm acutely aware of these changes over the decades.

You, as a young puppy, are not.
I know all of that Bruce. I'm Irish so my grandparents grew up in that, and it drove my grandfather to atheism. But that doesn't mean that they were all like that.

I know your bitter about it Bruce, but you aren't winning anyone over with those types of posts. Perhaps a new thread about your experiences could be a good idea, but here it only diverts attention from the real topic.

[Bruce S]

I know all of that Bruce. I'm Irish so my grandparents grew up in that, and it drove my grandfather to atheism. But that doesn't mean that they were all like that.

I know your bitter about it Bruce, but you aren't winning anyone over with those types of posts. Perhaps a new thread about your experiences could be a good idea, but here it only diverts attention from the real topic.
Agreed.

You guys take it from here. I need a beer...

Rats, forgot, I'm in AA, sheesh.

Howabout stealing some Halloween candy from the trick or treat stuff we have for tomorrow...rats...can't even do that, forgot, we FUNDIES don't "do Halloween"

Argh...

I guess I will go fight with the Atheists on the other board I visit. They like the abuse....

Over and out.

[Filia Mariae]

the Mary worship,

We DO NOT worship Mary. Please refrain from bearing false witness against your Catholic brothers and sisters.

[Dawn Marie]

Argh. Why did you post this here? This man came HERE to talk to US, not have Catholics come and tell him to get back INTO the RCC faith! This is exactly what we Protestants have been asking in this forum. Leave US alone to deal with OUR issues. You have your own forum, if this man wanted the opinions of Catholics, he would have posted there.

K? Wow.

The reason for this website is to bring all Christians together... if you don't let people of other Christian denominations in the Protestant forum, you are defeating the entire purpose of this site.

[ukok]

OK, i said this:

Originally Posted by: ukok



Humour me Bruce, i can't imagine how you would possibly have known that the majority of a congregation numbering more than 1000 in total, were 'formerly' Catholic ? Did they perhaps have some secret handshake, wear a sticky label "Whooppee...I'm a convert from Catholicism! " ? How exactly did you know this before you even mentioned it to your pastor?



To which you replied:

"DUH, I asked how THEY got into this church, for me that is a standard opening question. Don't YOU ever socialize with others and ask these sorts of things..."How did YOU come to attend this church?" that sort of question.

I guess I talked with a few dozen in the first few months, after service, in prayer meetings, at events, ....

I'm not that shy a person, and I love to learn about how people got into this denomination...."

If you are telling me, seriously, that you introduced yourself to 400 + people and discovered that they were all converts from Catholicism, then who am i to disbelieve you, but you must have been in that church for an awfully long time to have got to know so very many people in such detail.

And in response to your question, yes i do try to be friendly, but i'm not on a fact finding mission when i interact with the men and women at my church. I dare say that it would take me a good few years to accumulate the "evidence" that you have amassed, and the congregation at the church i attend is significantly smaller, as it is does not have the capacity physically to hold quite that many people.

You then quote me as saying:

Quote:

" How exactly do you know that many of them were a. like you. b. only found God after leaving the RCC ? "



To which you responded:

"I said I found God only after leaving the RCC. Asked others, they too were basically unchurched and estranged till they came to this church. Funny how much you find out when YOU open up and tell others about YOUR experience. A common bond being formed with the Ex Catholics sharing, upon finding each other. [Not hard here, as I said, over 60% - per the pastor - are Ex's.]"

Now Bruce, forgive me but i am having trouble understanding how 400 or more people all claimed to be 'unchurched' and 'estranged' and had not 'found God'. I am baffled as to whether when they were in the Catholic Church, they ever spoke a prayer in sincerity, ever attended Church regularly, ever recieved the Sacraments, ... If they did those things without ever even knowing God, then why did they do them ? Or are you telling me that they were all 'cradle Catholics' and had not made the conscious decision to embrace Catholicism in their lifetime? (not that that would be the case either, of course).

'unchurched' - what exactly does this mean ? Usually Catholicism is accused of having too much instruction, so i assume that you mean something else by this expression. Feel free to enlighten me.

'estranged' - i had always thought that this inferred that there was a 'separation' involved. This then would imply that the separation began with the man/woman, as the Chruch stands true ?

You then quote me:

" I would have thought that if a person had not already 'found God' they would hardly be inclined to join yet another Church. Surely a percentage of those people already 'knew' God, or had a serious desire to know God more deeply, but failed to endeavour to do so while in the RCC? "





And respond with :

"? Just telling it like it was/is for me. Sorry that doesn't fit your idea of the way things should go."

The way that i figure things should go is irrelevant. The way that you figure things should go, is irrelevant. The way that God figures things should go, is the only important factor.

You quote me:



"And just so you know, i think that I am allowed to formulate and post an opinion here as i haven't converted to Catholicism, yet. so i'm looking at this as i see it, and i can't see how you presume to know so much about so many people, unless of course you have had very indepth conversations with the entirity of your church congregation ? "





And respond:

"The "entirety" no. But with about twenty to thirty men, over a few months, yes, frankly I did. I go to wednesday nights, saturday morning men's prayer breakfast [about 40 attend there off an on] a few picnics, and other events. So, yes, I did have the opportunity of deeper fellowship than most might have found possible, I MADE THE TIME, and TOOK THE OPPORTUNITY, to reach out, in my time of need and hurt, to as many men and also to a few women also, as I possibly could."

I'm pleased that you did reach out to so many people in your time of 'need and hurt'. Fellowship is very important. Even here, where we are just a bunch of words that represent all of our emotion and passionate beliefs.

You know what's bizzarre, we are the only ones that separate ourselves from God, He doesn't separate himself from us, perhaps that tells us how we distance ourselves from the things that we don't like to hear, how we become detached and cynical and choose to do things our way. When I first 'found God' i did not remain faithful to Him, and subsequently lost him for a very long time ~ i managed to do that without belonging to any church whatsoever.
When i found Him and accepted him as an adult, i did so despite belonging to one of Britains most fanatical religious cult phenomina, - I found God, despite my being there, in the depths of one of the most unholy and unscriptural movements that i have ever been aware of. My point is, anyone can find God, anywhere. No one has to leave a church to do so, and then blame God because they themselves were not receptive to Him at that time.

Also, Bruce, just so you know, I will read every word that you write, please don't 'shout' your words with capitals - you really don't need to do that.

[ej]

He has his elbow on the Caps Lock key :)

[Bruce S]

He has his elbow on the Caps Lock key :)
It is called emphasis, you can't do inflection with the written word as you do in the spoken word. A writing style that I have been using for ages now, online, and it seems, that others rapidly copy.

Now, I took the time to go visit the RCC parallel thread on the OBOB forum. I notice that the Protestants are not flooding in there, like the RCC's have done YET again here, as happens with most threads. In fact, I cannot recall ONE thread yet where there were only Protestants on anything of interest.

I did read, with amusement, the hoops that are being danced around on the Confession issue. No one wants to tell the poor man that he is going to Hell if he dies with a Mortal sin unconfessed, and without final rites. Just tell him that, it is the doctrine. Why sugarcoat that reality?

I'm NOT going to go there, be disrespectful of the RCC's right to have a forum of their own, promote thier beliefs [good, it is the right and proper place to do so] but I do note, yet again, that we are not accorded the same right as Protestants to talk with a seeker without interferrence.

[ej]

It is called emphasis, you can't do inflection with the written word as you do in the spoken word. A writing style that I have been using for ages now, online, and it seems, that others rapidly copy.

Funny... :confused: I've never read literature which uses capitals for several words in each sentence. Italics occasionally, but never capitals.

Bruce... is your bl;essings game a Protestant joke? You refute my offer publicly, yet you keep half the blessings I gave you... I can think of a pertinent analogy :)

[Preachers12]

Agreed.

You guys take it from here. I need a beer...

Rats, forgot, I'm in AA, sheesh.


Bruce S, Peace be with you.

The Catholic Church is sort of like AA. It works if you work it.

Sorry your education in the faith was so bad. I hope the Spirit might lead you to understanding and love out of ignorance and hate.

God Bless,
P12

[Miss Shelby]

I did read, with amusement, the hoops that are being danced around on the Confession issue. No one wants to tell the poor man that he is going to Hell if he dies with a Mortal sin unconfessed, and without final rites. Just tell him that, it is the doctrine. Why sugarcoat that reality?Unconfessed and unrepented, actually Bruce. And it CAN send someone to hell. And no one is telling him that he's going to hell because we Catholics don't place that determination on the soul of anyone else. In the final analysis, it's up to God.

Michelle

[Metanoia02]

I'm NOT going to go there, be disrespectful of the RCC's right to have a forum of their own, promote thier beliefs [good, it is the right and proper place to do so] but I do note, yet again, that we are not accorded the same right as Protestants to talk with a seeker without interferrence.
Bruce,

He is not a seeker. He is Catholic who is struggling.

[nyj]

...

[Benedicta00]

I did read, with amusement, the hoops that are being danced around on the Confession issue. No one wants to tell the poor man that he is going to Hell if he dies with a Mortal sin unconfessed, and without final rites. Just tell him that, it is the doctrine. Why sugarcoat that reality?




Why would we tell the man an error about what Catholics believe????

[Lotar]

Bruce,

He is not a seeker. He is Catholic who is struggling.
By Protestant most standards, he is a seeker. I guess we just have different reasoning on this one.

[Bruce S]

Bruce,

He is not a seeker. He is Catholic who is struggling.
Hmm.

A guy comes HERE, asks of US what we think of certain things. Immediately, RCCs swarm all over the thread, telling him to go there, go there, get his questions answered there....

Even after he was asked to go there, and he did, on this thread, the RCC's continue to dominate this thread, as they do all the threads on the PRE forum threads.

God bless you all. I will definately have to pray on this one. It is SO MUCH like the way it used to be for me, before, there is one, your way, and even here, in a forum where we are not in agreement with the RCC way, we have to listen to this.

If I wanted Catholic doctrine and teachings, I would return to that faith. I don't. There are fellowship forums, there are interdenominational forums this is neither.

It is a forum for Protestants to talk to each other, with each other, and what happens here is just wrong. If the RCCs don't respect that, and they apparently won't, it just reinforces my decision. Thank God, yes, bless you God, for freeing me from the need to have people keep telling me what the official doctrine on this or that is Catholic style. I'm not interested, I'm not converting back, it took a lifetime to escape that, and it almost kept me out of God's grace forever, for I could not get over the some of these issues, they might be a generational thing, but for me, they were and are real.

I'm going to church tonight, and will pray over this one. It is frustrating indeed what happens in this forum, I really need to stay out of the PRE forum, it isn't what I want, fellowship ONLY with other PRE's, the IDD is where I would go if I wanted what is happening over and over here. There I would expect this sort of thing, here I didn't, and don't.

Me bad. I'm wrong. I will, honestly, pray hard on this one.

[Bruce S]

By Protestant most standards, he is a seeker. I guess we just have different reasoning on this one.
This one reminds me of the fellows who are trying to climb over the Berlin wall, the guards are chasing him and attempting to drag him back over to East Berlin, the dogs are yapping and the sirens are blaring...escape, escape....

Now they are even trying to define what SEEKER means to a Protestant. Argh.

[ej]

Unity is about love and acceptance, Bruce :)

[VigoMedic]

Hello all! Wow, there is certainly some bitterness in this thread. I've only found a few posts that actually address the thread starter's question. So, finchuck, I offer you my personal take on your question(s), for what it is worth.

Most protestant denominations do not have a "confirmation process". Some do, and they are very similar to Catholic process; however some just require that you profess your faith in our Trinitarian God and be baptized. Some require that you take membership classes; others don't. There are many protestant faiths, and there are just as many membership or confirmation processes; you'll just have to ask the priest or pastor of your church.

Now I would like to (as brief as possible) explain to you perspective on your quest for a different faith:

I grew up in the Assemblies of God (AoG) church, from young childhood until just a few years ago. In that time, I attended four different congregations, from very large to very small. My father was even a deacon (in the AoG a deacon is not ordained, but rather an elected lay leader) at one time. I left the AoG because I was never comfortable in the church. I know that seems odd to say since I grew up in the AoG, however I never really "clicked" with their services or doctrine. For me their faith was based more on shame than love and redemption, as I felt "they" were too focused on a certain set of rules to follow versus focusing what brings us a congregation together, and that is our love, service, and worship for the Trinitarian God.

After leaving the AoG, I started attending a local Roman Catholic Church (most of my friends are RC), and did so for about a year. However, I found myself not feeling "at home" their either for much of the same reasons as stated above.

Finally, my quest for a church home came to an end with the Episcopal Church (ECUSA), which was surprisingly somewhere in the middle of my previous two denomination experiences. I loved the liturgical and traditional worship style of the RCC, along with the weekly service of the Eucharist. However, I still held a firm belief in the general protestant "doctrine". The ECUSA works well for me; I have truly never felt a stronger relationship with, or felt the presence of God as prevalant and real as I have with my current church. Now to my point...

Do I believe that because the AoG or the RCC didn't work for me that they are "less Godly" than my current church? No. Do I believe that faithful, god-fearing, heaven-bound Christians can come from all the churches I mentioned above? Absolutely. As matter of fact, I have genuine Christian friends from all of the above faiths, and I would not trade any of my previous church experiences for anything. I know that the ECUSA is the home for me, and I am so blessed to have found such a wonderful church, with a great priest. However, I am naive enough to believe that it will be the best church home for everyone.

We, as Christians, need to get past denominational stereotypes and bickering, and focus on what matters most... our relationship with God, through Jesus Christ, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. There is a church home out there for everone, and I truly hope that you find a congregation within which you can grow and be strong in Christ.

Peace!

[Lanakila]

*Mod Hat On* In case folks haven't noticed this is the Protestant/Reformed/Evangelical room. Not IDD. It is also not the place to air all our bad feelings and past/present hurts that the Catholic church has done to you. Arguing about blessings and many things happened in this thread while I was away cooking and eating my dinner. This is a sad commentary on what this room had turned into. Frankly I am sick of it. Take the Catholic/Protestant debate to IDD, and stay within the rules of that forum. This mod has had it. In case you hadn't noticed I started a bunch of threads on topics having nothing whatsoever to do with the Catholic church. Please feel free to post in those. This thread is closed. *Mod Hat Off