Ultimate Reconciliation

[justsurfing]

This is not unitarian universalism. This is a belief of born-again Christians that God's plan is ultimate reconcilation of all persons... via the universal atonement of Jesus Christ.

(Ie. God will bring all to saving faith and regeneration by divine grace and sovereignty - and ultimate reconciliation of all people and the whole world has always been God's plan - and is the manifest power of the cross of Jesus Christ.)

(This is not unitarian universalism.)

According to this view, hell is not eternal. The lake of fire purges and is ultimately redemptive. Then God, by grace, has mercy on all by granting saving grace through faith even to those who were cast into outer darkness. (To explain the theology.)

Ultimate reconciliation. It is in contrast to annihilation or eternal torment in hell positions - but biblical relying on Jesus Christ and saving faith by grace in Jesus Christ. (Relies on God's sovereign wil, plan, love and power to redeem and reconcile all through His plan to send Jesus Christ.)

Sorry if explanation long - I think there is some confusion about the position theologically (confused with unitarianism - but very different. UR relies on salvation through Jesus Christ and God's sovereign grace and plan alone).

Would be great to have a forum not currently represented.

Thanks!

P.S. As a point of reference, the Nicene Creed was authored in part and headed by believers holding the UR position. (ie Gregory of Nyssa, etc.)

UR is not non-Nicene Creed... though I understand unitarian may be. Just making a point that UR position church leaders were in charge of the council and wrote in part the Nicene Creed - just to clarify that UR is definitely Nicene Creed, etc. Thanks!

[Redeemed_Warrior]

opposed 100%

[*Starlight*]

I support the idea. :)

opposed 100%
Why?

[PhoenyxAngel]

I support the idea 120% :)

[*Starlight*]

and I support in 140% ;)

[paxi1334]

I support the idea of a UR forum

[PhoenyxAngel]

and I support in 140% ;)

And I support it 150%...lol. We could go on forever with this. I'm glad to see there are people on here that believes in the Ultimate Reconciliation of all souls to God :thumbsup:

I support the idea of a UR forum

I would love to see a UR or Universal Salvation forum. :amen:

[chaela]

I support this idea 1,000 percent! :)

[justsurfing]

With this kind of support... hey!! must be a great new forum potentially.

Thanks everyone for the support.

I understand that there may be opposition to the message. We do see things from different points of view.

However, I don't believe there really should be opposition to a view being represented in a forum that express a view that differs from one's own.

We can all learn from one another... and from the Bible.

And to have a forum where this is the uniting factor... where those of us who see the cross as perfectly atoning for all persons... and God's Love as perfect in reaching all persons.. God's Love as truly perfect in promise, potential... and even practise....

I honestly believe this is what the Bible is pointing to when it calls all believers to "spiritual maturity" or "spiritual perfection (maturity)": Perfect Love.

So, the value of seeing God's Love in Jesus Christ on the cross as truly perfect....

Yes!!!

I'd love for the forum to come to be to speak the message of Perfect Love in Jesus Christ... the Perfect Love of God in Christ made "real"... manifest... effectual.. actual... practical... on the cross.

Ultimate Reconcilation.

Thank you every one for considering the perfection of Jesus Christ our Perfect Savior perfectly saving and atoning forall... and a forum where this is this united focus is central.

Thanks!!!!

[Tavita]

Yes, I would support this 100% too.

I was involved in getting the Moderate forum going in here and I believe we needed twenty five people to support it, or a figure like it.

Maybe we can ask the supermoderator, CaDan, for some advice, even though he's not a believer in Ultimate Reconciliation, he's very open to all points of view (and he can't understand why the rest of them are so totally against it).

I was also involved in another forum that tried to get started but because there were too few members wanting it... and the terrible opposition of many others, it didn't get going.

There is the opportunity to post concerning Ultimate Reconciliation in the Non-Nicene areas, but I know most of us are in agreeance with the Nicene Creed. I first learned of UR through those forums.. with people like Moriah Conquering Wind, and Kept, and others who were sharing their beliefs. Those days were wonderful. But when these forums changed during 2007 most of them left.

I do know of other UR's in here who aren't aware of this thread, over the next few days I may contact them... if I can remember all of them... and see if they'd like to be involved.

[CaDan]

The subject does get discussed in various places around CF.

The advantage I see is the organizational one that those discussions would be centered in one place.

The disadvantage I see is that it probably would not be a very peaceful place. UR is right up there with "Teh Ghey" as a hot button issue for some people. If you are looking forward to a quiet place to have discussions about UR, a separate forum is probably not going to provide that.

[SpiritDriven]

From 1 Timothy 4...

9 Faithful is the saying and worthy of all welcome
10 (for for this are we toiling and being reproached), that we rely on the living God, Who is the Saviour of all mankind,
11 especially of believers. These things be charging and teaching.

With the word that first proceeded out of the mouth of God agreeing with us.....I would say that it would only be a matter of time before a UR Forum comes into being.

While I fully support the creation of a UR Forum.....how will we bring those who avoid it to the relisation of the truth ?

I get the feeling we do, what God has set out for us to do here better, with out a UR Forum.

Remember Jesus did say the World hated him first....

[Tavita]

We should all realize it wouldn't be a terribly peaceful forum, and I wonder what could be done to minimize it. It would be great to have one central place for discussion.

Discussing it around the forums hasn't been too successful, imo, sure you can leave seeds and get people thinking, but it usually ends up in personal attacks and fights. It would be great to have somewhere to place all that teaching in one central place.. where it's not accepted elsewhere. A place for the UR people to share their beliefs. If others want to debate we could have a special debate area. Then at least if anyone's slightly interested they could wander through and at least read about it. Most people have no clue what it's about, only what their church organisation has told them.

Anyways.. let's see what unfolds...

[*Starlight*]

I think it would be the best if the forum didn't allow debating against the idea of Universal Reconciliation. In that case, it would be a friendly safe place to discuss it. :)

[Tavita]

I think it would be the best if the forum didn't allow debating against the idea of Universal Reconciliation. In that case, it would be a friendly safe place to discuss it. :)

Ahh.. Starlight, I just realized you're a mod... do you know how many people we would need to get the forum going? Could you find out?

Yes, I agree, and if they want to debate we could have a separate debate area... as people do learn through debate too. CaDan suggested we keep the forum in the theology area, but does that leave it open for everyone who wants to argue? What about the denomination area... trouble is, is it really a denomination? There is so much to think about and discuss.

[*Starlight*]

Ahh.. Starlight, I just realized you're a mod... do you know how many people we would need to get the forum going? Could you find out?

Yes, I agree, and if they want to debate we could have a separate debate area... as people do learn through debate too. CaDan suggested we keep the forum in the theology area, but does that leave it open for everyone who wants to argue? What about the denomination area... trouble is, is it really a denomination? There is so much to think about and discuss.
I have no idea how many people are needed to get a forum, and I'm not sure where to find out... :sorry: but I hope we can find enough people for it. :)

Yes, there could be a subforum for debates. :) Hmm... maybe the Congregation area would be good. It's not only for denominations, but also for specific movements within Christianity... maybe Universalism can be seen as such a movement.

[SpiritDriven]

Ahh.. Starlight, I just realized you're a mod... do you know how many people we would need to get the forum going? Could you find out?

Yes, I agree, and if they want to debate we could have a separate debate area... as people do learn through debate too. CaDan suggested we keep the forum in the theology area, but does that leave it open for everyone who wants to argue? What about the denomination area... trouble is, is it really a denomination? There is so much to think about and discuss.

Hello Tavita...

Just my 2 cents worth... in regards to thoughts on denomination....when reading the letters of Paul, we could only describe ourselves as Paul describes the body of believers in Gods word.

Therfore Theology area would be best...it would out reach to the most people that come here...

The Disciples said to Jesus... you send us out as sheep amongst Wolves....

We must become as Wolves.....

[chaela]

I think another advantage to Christian Universalism having it's own forum is something I discovered just this morning: Depending on what the rules are for a particular board, the mere mention of universal reconciliation can set off clicks on the Report Button in the more "trigger-happy" of the crowd. Right now the only "safe" place here in CF to express one's views is over at the Blog section, which I use quite a bit. No Report buttons over there, LOL!

[Tavita]

Hello Tavita...

Just my 2 cents worth... in regards to thoughts on denomination....when reading the letters of Paul, we could only describe ourselves as Paul describes the body of believers in Gods word.

Therfore Theology area would be best...it would out reach to the most people that come here...

The Disciples said to Jesus... you send us out as sheep amongst Wolves....

We must become as Wolves.....

I can appreciate where you're coming from, SpiritDriven, thank you.

We've had huge discussions in Christian Philosophy and Ethics recently concerning Reconciliation Awareness (universalism) and what seems to come through is that it's very very hard to discuss the huge paradigm shift that occurs in a person and how to articulate that in a single post or even ongoing posts. Moriah Conquering Wind summed it up so eloquently in this post #11...

http://christianforums.com/t6707479-the-doctrine-of-universalism-christian-universalism-or-otherwise-true-or-false.html&page=2

*I don't know about the becoming as wolves though... ;)

[Tavita]

I think another advantage to Christian Universalism having it's own forum is something I discovered just this morning: Depending on what the rules are for a particular board, the mere mention of universal reconciliation can set off clicks on the Report Button in the more "trigger-happy" of the crowd. Right now the only "safe" place here in CF to express one's views is over at the Blog section, which I use quite a bit. No Report buttons over there, LOL!


Yeah, even the mention of it brings the worst out in some. And while I agree with SpiritDriven that we should be out and about the forums discussing this topic and trying to help people see the truth, it would still be great to have home ground.

[Soul Searcher]

I fully support the notion of a UR forum area.

I believe it should be open to everyone.

Two sections would be ok as in one for debate and one for just discussion but just one where both is allowed would be ok as well as long as it is universally open to any who want to have a say.

[Armistead]

I support this 100%. I am mostly Southern Baptist, just happened to open my mind to UR enough to study and found it totally biblical, much moreso than God eternally torturing most of mankind.

I am now finding many Christians that are UR. These are Christians that hold true to the bible, but took the time time to understand the truth of hell. Most of us are not Christians looking for pie in the sky made up doctrine to make us feel good or excuse sin. We took time to study the bible, putting aside religeous traditions long enough
to biblically study the truth of hell and it's purpose to refine.

I do not accept age of accountability; good works for those that have never heard the gospel, or any other method of salvation, except through the saving work of Christ.

[PaladinGirl]

I totally oppose this idea. Such a doctrine is false and heretical.

[CaDan]

I totally oppose this idea. Such a doctrine is false and heretical.

So is Nestorianism. We're not too hot on enforcing that, either.

[Rep Daddy]

So is Nestorianism. We're not too hot on enforcing that, either.

Yeah but what's gonna be done with all those hand baskets that will go unused?

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
yep, let's open a forum for UR and any other ism and was'm.

[EternalSummer]

The disadvantage I see is that it probably would not be a very peaceful place. UR is right up there with "Teh Ghey" as a hot button issue for some people. If you are looking forward to a quiet place to have discussions about UR, a separate forum is probably not going to provide that.

I personally like this idea. I'm surprised not more believers seem interested in exploring this concept and I'm surprised to see how many believers reject it without really understanding it. I would like to learn more about it.

I would totally support formation of a forum for this. If it's that much a hot issue for some like this brother said above, there could be rules that those who don't agree are not allowed to fight, argue or debate over it. There could be a separete area for them to ask questions and even discuss their disagreements respectfully and calmly, and if they don't follow the rules they would be kicked out of there.

[Tkjjc]

Totally in favor of it, since I believe this way. Gets kinda old prowling around looking for other like minded people scattered here and there, agreeing or disagreeing with theology.It would be nice to have a home,,

[Tavita]

Well, guys, it's going to take a lot more of us to get this rolling. Maybe if you know of any other UR who hasn't seen this thread you could send them an invite.

[Ben12]

Acts 15: 16 (NAS)
'AFTER THESE THINGS I will return, AND I WILL REBUILD THE TABERNACLE OF DAVID WHICH HAS FALLEN, AND I WILL REBUILD ITS RUINS, AND I WILL RESTORE IT, 17 SO THAT THE REST OF MANKIND MAY SEEK THE LORD, AND ALL THE GENTILES WHO ARE CALLED BY MY NAME,'



Acts 15: 16 (HCSB)
After these things I will return and will rebuild David's tent, which has fallen down. I will rebuild its ruins and will set it up again,
17 so that those who are left of mankind may seek the Lord—even all the Gentiles who are called by My name,says the Lord who does these things, 18 which have been known from long ago.


Acts 15 16 (NIRV)
" 'After this I will return and rebuild David's fallen tent. I will rebuild what was destroyed. I will make it what it used to be.
17 Then the rest of the people can look to the Lord. This means all the non-Jews who belong to me. The Lord says this. He is the one who does these things.'

[goodnewsinc]

The early Christian church believed in the salvation of all men. why not open a forum that expresses this belief. I am not ashamed of the gospel of truth and I could care less what the blind church-world endorses. They have a problem!

Revelation 13: 4. And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? 5. And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. 6. And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. 7. And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

So how much credibility do you give those who are blind and "overcome by the Dragon"! Deceived idol-worshippers ensnared by the devil came up with this "creed" ... and I do not genuflect to Roman ancient or present day! The "scarlet woman" had offspring ... represented by the protestant churches of today! They are consumed by pagan fornication typical of Easter and Christmas pollution and they all grovel for money which Jesus charged his disciples not to do! they are a bunch of Judas-priests!

Matthew 10:8. Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give. 9. Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses, 10. Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.

Isaiah 55:1. Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.

Revelation 22:17. And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

There is no "filthy lucre" involved with those sent and ordained by the Father! Christianity is rife with Judas-priests! I do not respect them! Do you know the mark of the Beast in the hand is "money"?!

John,
GOOD NEWS, Inc. :thumbsup::amen::clap:

[ProfessorMom]

Okay, Universal Reconciliation can be discussed in Unorthodox Theology, Soteriology, or Eschatology but be certain to read any forum/sub-forum guidelines before posting. Or, it can be taken to GA.

[ProfessorMom]

This thread can be closed. We will not be creating a forum specifically for UR

[Tavita]

This thread can be closed. We will not be creating a forum specifically for UR

Can you please tell us who decided this? Was it a board of mods, or just one? Who?

[Tavita]

Why is it relegated to the unorthodox section when the majority of Christian Universalists (not Unitarian) are Nicene Creed believers?

[Rep Daddy]

Okay, Universal Reconciliation can be discussed in Unorthodox Theology, Soteriology, or Eschatology but be certain to read any forum/sub-forum guidelines before posting. Or, it can be taken to GA.

Cool. Thanks for an answer.

[*Starlight*]

This thread can be closed. We will not be creating a forum specifically for UR
Why?

[ProfessorMom]

Why?There are several forums where the subject may be discussed so it's not as though there is no place. Why is it relegated to the unorthodox section when the majority of Christian Universalists (not Unitarian) are Nicene Creed believers?It's not. Soteriology is located under General Theology, a sub-forum of Theology. The same with Eschatology. Unorthodox Theology is a separate sub-forum of Theology.